Ben Beers: [00:00:00] I believe in God, but I believe God gives, uh, people choices. And I do believe God steps in and changes circumstances and has the ability to, but there's often times where he doesn't. And, um, this idea that we just kinda sit back and let life happen and it must just be God's will. You know, I don't like that thinking and, uh, it's not what I read in the, in my Bible.
It's not the way I understand it.
Riley: Today I've got my, my friend, good friend Ben Beers on [00:01:00] here.
His nickname is Uncle Ben. And, and, uh, Ben and I have been
Ben Beers: Yep.
Riley: for a long time. We've kind of grown together in business and, uh, just in life. And I, I invited Ben on here because here, gosh, five or six years ago. He made a big change in his life where he went from having a, um, the JOB, the, you know, nine to five job working as a railroader to today owning his own business.
And we wanted to just talk about on air what that process looks like. 'cause a lot of people you may be thinking about doing that yourself and it'd be super cool to, uh, get Ben's insight on what that experience has been like. Maybe some what to dos and what to not to dos. Um,
Ben Beers: Yeah.
Riley: to the show, my friend.
Ben Beers: Thank you sir. It's an honor to be here hanging out with you.
Riley: Man, I'm so excited. We, um, you.
guys don't know this, but this is our second attempt at this. The first time Ben and I recorded, [00:02:00] uh, we had some technical difficulties and it didn't work out. So we're back here for round two. Um, we're gonna get started, but Ben, let's, um, kind of back up a little bit. Tell everybody who you are, where you're from, and what life was like as a kid.
Ben Beers: So I'm an Idaho kid, uh, born and raised and crazed and, uh, grew up in a little town, southern Idaho. Um, just your classic little kind of country growing up. Uh, grew up out and raising cows and just living outside as a boy and doing boy stuff and, um, had a great and strong family. Um, and, uh, yeah, just all the Idaho things, riding dirt bikes and skiing and, um, working on the farm and all that kind of stuff.
Growing up it was great.
Riley: And did you, uh, talk about gooding a little bit, man? Because I want to, when people you say small Idaho town, I don't think people quite [00:03:00] understand what small Idaho town means until they hear gooding.
Ben Beers: Yeah, well, per capita, there's more cows than people. Um, or per capita is one of the, uh, most cows in the per county in the country. Last I heard, uh, a lot of dairies and so we just, uh, a lot of farming dairies and, um, so yeah, pretty small town, couple thousand people growing up. Um, you know, you had the same kids we went to kindergarten with and graduated with and, uh, not a whole lot to do in the small town.
Uh, ride dirt bikes and um, jump off bridges, go swimming and uh, that's how I learned how to swim in the canal. And, um, yeah, just that kinda stuff. And it was great.
Riley: Well, you said more cows than people, man. In fact, um, a guy I interviewed recently talked about cow tipping. I've heard of cow tipping. You know, I grew up of in farm area too, but I've never done it, and I've always [00:04:00] questioned whether or not that was real, man. Is that, is that a real thing?
Ben Beers: You know, we tried it as well. We saw it on tv, one of the movies, and, um, we snuck through and tried it and they ran off before. We never got it done, but I, I've never experienced it. I tried it.
Riley: Dang. Now we're gonna have to, gonna have to on the YouTubes for, for some cow tipping videos. I think so.
Ben Beers: Yeah. We should go out and try it again.
Riley: That's awesome. Now you mentioned riding dirt bikes, man. You're still doing that today, huh?
Ben Beers: I am, I, uh, don't ride as much as I want to. Obviously all it's, you know, most, uh, grownups will say, but, uh, I love it. Um, it's been a big part of my life. Um. Yeah, I, uh, I go out in my garage every night and I see that dirt bike and, uh, I keep telling myself I need to go more, but, uh, uh, yeah, I love it. Great sport.
Riley: Pretty awesome man. I, I kind of miss doing that myself, but I've got the pedal kind now. They pedal up hills and [00:05:00] a lot of fun,
Ben Beers: Yeah, those are fun.
Riley: work.
Ben Beers: That's true.
Riley: That's pretty cool, man. Well, so talk about this. So you, um, career wise, so you, you, uh, started working for the railroad at some point in your life and talk about that and what that experience was like.
Ben Beers: Yeah, so, uh, right outta high school, um, that fall, I, um, I got on with the railroad down there, kind of where I grew up. And, uh, this was back in 98 and, um, whole different world in the railroad world. It was kind of a cowboy world and, um, I loved it. We would, uh, work hard and fast and, uh, running around this big machinery.
You know, I was an engineer conductor, um, and it was great. Um, worked with that company for a few years and, uh, you know, got into management and I was a pretty young kid. And then, um. My wife and I [00:06:00] went off and did a few adventures, um, and then I came back to railroading a few years later. And, uh, so about 12 years I ran through it again and, um, had a lot of stories of derailing trains and working through all the weather and, um, had great camaraderie with all the guys.
A lot of rough, tough guys, but I loved them. And, um, yeah, it was a good season. It was, uh, my kids would, yeah, quite a few of those. We have stories of, um, I've been on many trains that derail, you know, you we're, we're short line so we're doing slower speeds. So, um, not quite like the movies, but, um, a lot of trashing and burning with stuff.
Riley: That's some big scary equipment, man. I know. You know, you and I have talked about it, but for the audience sake, my, my father, my [00:07:00] uncle, both my grandfathers. Half the neighborhood I grew up in, were all railroaders over there in Pocatello, Idaho. And that's a major hub for the railroad here in, in Idaho. Um, and Union Pacific's not short line right there. Those trains are going 70 miles an hour at times. And so when my
Ben Beers: Yeah,
Riley: when he would talk about derailments sometimes, man, they were a big deal. You'd lose hundreds of cars and, you know, it would, it would be a mess. Um, a lot of times fatalities and stuff involved in that.
Ben Beers: well thankfully I was never, uh, we've hit a few cars, pretty slow speed, and, uh, hit quite a few derailments of stuff. Thankfully, nothing. Um. Fatalities or anything I was involved with. But definitely a lot of, uh, we tipped a few cars over we've, that was motor once that we went off the track, tipped over. Um, so it was a lot of good stories with all [00:08:00] that.
Riley: , So talking about railroad and heating cars, man, that, that was always something that was kind of an ever present thing growing up and you know, again, being around so many railroaders and, you mentioned you were a, a conductor. Now tell people what a conductor is. 'cause I want to, I want to talk about this subject a little bit.
'cause it, that's what my dad was growing up. He was a conductor also.
Ben Beers: So on freight trains, uh, the conductor is the guy that's on the ground. You're walking, um, a lot, you're hooking the cars together, unhooking them, sorting 'em out, spotting 'em at customers so they can unload 'em, picking 'em up. So on the short line, uh, I mean, you're getting some steps in, you're walking all day long, um, riding on the side of the train all the time.
And then, uh, yeah, so on the smaller railroads, most of the guys doing both. You know, one day we'll be on the ground, one day we'll be up in the motor engineering [00:09:00] driving the train. So
Riley: You, uh, how long were these trains you guys were working on? Because I remember my dad would talk about 'em being well over a mile long. So when they had to walk,
Ben Beers: yeah.
Riley: the length of the train. It was a, it was a jaunt, man. I.
Ben Beers: It's big. Yeah. Usually we're running a little shorter just 'cause we're spotting 'em up and stuff. But, uh, typically 30 to 50 cars was our normal day. But there's times where we would run, you know, the big ones, like we'd jump on actually a, a up train and run around for 'em sometimes over our property or something.
But there's some big ones. I think two miles was the longest one I was driving.
Riley: Yeah.
I mean, and that's what people don't think about, man. I, you know, I don't know numbers, but I know individual cars can weigh, you know, 250,000 pounds for one trained car. And Yeah.
you're talking about miles worth of those. And so the, you know, back to the hitting cars subject, right? Um, would pull out in front of trains, man.
And, and like I [00:10:00] said, it was an never present thing. My dad was always talking about, he's like, man, another lady did it today. She just pulled right through the intersection and she thinks we can stop, like a car stops. And, you know, and you tell me, you'd know better than I would, but. He would tell me it seemed like a train takes as long as it is to stop.
Ben Beers: Yeah, there's a, you know, an empty train car. One car is like 30 tons. Um, loaded is one 20.
Riley: Hmm.
Ben Beers: And, uh, so there are a lot of factors in that and, you know, your speed and track and all that. But, um, yeah, you're not stopping very fast at all.
Riley: Yeah. He, he talked about one time they, this is just kind of crazy story, but they hit a car, they out in the Port of Gap over by Pocatello and. He said there was two tracks there and he was coming up and there was a car parked waiting to their, to their right, and the other track was on their left. [00:11:00] And as he pulled up, he was looking at the lady sitting in the car, they were traveling something like 50 miles an hour at that point. And he saw her face and he said, that's how I knew, because there was another train passing them right there. And as soon as the back of that train cleared the intersection, the car on the other side took off. So he couldn't see that car, but he saw the lady's face he said just the in her eyes, he knew it was coming and he, when he hit it flipped it and that car went over the other lady that was sitting there. those people lived, but barely. I mean, it was a, that's a scary deal. And I again.
Ben Beers: Yeah. Oh yeah.
Riley: That was such a thing drilled in my head as a kid. Like, stay out of the dang intersection man. Give yourself plenty of space for trains. Don't mess with that.
Ben Beers: Yeah. My kids know the same. They, uh. They grew up, it was great. You know, when they were little I [00:12:00] was able to take 'em on the quite a bit, quite often. So my kids, when they were elementary age, knew how to, the basics of driving a train and, um,
Riley: cool.
Ben Beers: when they were little, uh, I taught my daughter, whenever she hears the train, she'd say, daddy loves me.
So if she still brings that up, you know, she hears that train and, um, still thinks about that. So it's fun.
Riley: And for the audience's sake, how old is she now?
Ben Beers: Just turned 18, just last week.
Riley: You man,
Ben Beers: I know, I know. Goes fast.
Riley: and I's kids are real close to the same age and uh, yeah. So it's just crazy to think that we've, we've got adults now. Okay.
Ben Beers: I know. It's crazy. Goes fast.
Riley: Man.
Ben Beers: Yep.
Riley: Ben, talk about this transition, man. So you, you're in the railroad. Well, first I got, actually one more thing I wanna talk to you about, because this was another legendary thing in my life. Um, growing up in a, a railroad [00:13:00] household, when I turned 18, I remember my father and uncles going, Hey man, when are you gonna go down and apply at the railroad? my recollection of that was not positive, man. I remember just the talk, the complaining and, you know, they would say this phrase, you spend your whole life to hire onto the railroad and the rest of your life trying not to get fired. that just did not appeal to me at all, man. I remember just hearing so much complaining and whining and just like when it came my turn, you know, that I was, I was not in.
And I think that disappointed them a bit, but at the same time.
Ben Beers: Yeah.
Riley: I wanna know what your experience with that was, man. I dunno what, what that culture was like.
Ben Beers: Yeah, it's definitely, uh, so. Like I said, the ones I work on, we call 'em the short line, and then the up, BNSF, those big boys are all the mainliners we call 'em, definitely different cultures, you [00:14:00] know, um, the big up guys, it's hard, hard union world. I mean, to the, to the death. And then, uh, not quite as strong in the short lines, but it's definitely there.
And, um, that same, you know, that wore me out. That same kinda just, uh, you know, I'm a, I'm a capitalist now, so I feel like that's, uh. Uh, just that hardhearted union stance to where you were against the boss and it's kind of, uh, everybody's always mad at each other. And it wasn't so bad in our, we had pretty good crew, but it, um, I would travel around the other railroads to help 'em get started.
And, uh, some of 'em, it was just miserable. Um, and about then it got me thinking, you know, I started doing my own stuff on the side and, um, it's really [00:15:00] hanging out with you, hanging out with a bunch of other guys that were doing their own thing. Um, there was this sense of freedom that it really made me want to go after, so,
Riley: That freedom is something I wanna talk about for sure. Um,
Ben Beers: yeah.
Riley: Was there an event or anything in particular that started getting you, um, thinking more about that entrepreneurial journey?
Ben Beers: Um, not necessarily. I guess what it mainly was, um, my wife and I are pretty set on her staying home. So we were one income, staying home with our kids and just being a mom and I'm thankful for that. You know, it was definitely worth it, but it was hard and, uh, you know, the story. But, so I'm always doing side work.
I'm always doing side gigs, you know, I did a lot of flooring, uh, roofing and just stuff I learned growing up with my dad and. [00:16:00] Um, anything really just to put a little more food on the table. And so, uh, I started just, kinda always did that and it was kind of normal, you know, I just worked weekends or work when I had to.
And um, and then one day I was talking to my dad. My dad's a, he started a little later in life like me, but he is very entrepreneurial and, um, he, he owns a lumber yard down there in Gooding and bunch of other little businesses he's played with stores, units and everything. And, um, so he's very, he is always trying stuff and, um, I always looked up to him for that and I'm having lunch with him one day and he tells me I bought this gutter machine and, uh, I didn't really know what he was talking about.
They told me, yeah, it's in the trailer and he finds contractors and he gets jobs all the time through the, through the lumberyard. And so he just said, uh, [00:17:00] it's a pretty good little gig. And he got me thinking and he's telling me about it. And I was thinking, well, that's something I could do by myself and the weekends make an extra money.
And uh, so that went on for a month or two. We were talking about it. And then, uh, I started peeking around on Craigslist and I saw a used gutter machine for sale. And we had just sold a house. And I told my wife, it was like two grand. I said, man, what if we bought that, put it in a trailer and just started doing it on the side?
You know, I'd pay for it in a few months. And, um, that's kind of how it all started.
Riley: So you talked about this, uh, flooring and I know just from our conversations off, off air, um, the flooring started out kind of during the Oh, the, the recession. Right.
Ben Beers: Yeah.
Riley: Talk about that a
Ben Beers: Yeah. My wife and I actually,
Riley: that time. Man.[00:18:00]
Ben Beers: I did and uh, that's good to go back to for me. Um, right, right. When that happened, 2009. Um, so my wife and I, we became Christians when we were 19 years old together, and we've always, uh, done church stuff and ministry, and so we had a pastor friend of ours that had moved down to California and in 2009 he asked us to come help him plant this church and be, we would work with the kids and be the children's pastors and.
We were young and Gracie had just been born. We had two little kids and we're like, sure, this sounds fun. And I was pretty ignorant in the world of work 'cause I'd never gone a day without working if I wanted to. You know, there's always work. Well, we got down there to Cali and um, this was 2009 and something like 25% unemployment up in [00:19:00] Northern Cal.
And man, I got humbled really quick. I couldn't get a job at Home Depot. I couldn't get a job anywhere. And um, but looking back it was really, uh, helpful to me. Um, Brian, our pastor, and he, he was entrepreneur guy. He ran his own, um, he was a carpet layer, had his own shop and everything. And, uh, he really cha challenged me and, uh.
Taught me, he taught me how to lay flooring, the basics of it. And then, uh, he would, stuff I'd never thought of, but he would tell me, Hey, why don't you just go down to the carpet shop, sit there when all the trucks come in, ask 'em if they need work. And at the time I was like, there people don't do that, you know?
And uh, and he was right. And then finally I did it. I made a little business card for five bucks and um, started showing up, meeting guys and started getting work. And so that's kind of how I learned to lay the floor doing that.[00:20:00]
Riley: That's so cool. , I want you to talk about that, man, 'cause that that uncomfortableness going and putting yourself out there, like you said, you had never thought of that before, didn't realize people, you know, could just go out there and get work and, uh, yeah. I
Ben Beers: Yeah,
Riley: as over the years of you and I have talked, it seemed like that was a pretty pivotal moment in your world.
Ben Beers: yeah, it was for sure, uh, very uncomfortable. You know, I had a, we were living with him and his wife, very sweet couple, um, like a father figure to me, but I had two little kids and I mean, I wasn't making it. And, uh, we were doing all this church work for free, but I was having a hard time feeding my kids.
And, uh, to me there's nothing that's gonna drive you harder than that, you know? And,
Riley: Mm-hmm.
Ben Beers: and it wasn't that I didn't wanna work, I just didn't think about it. I just saw it as an employee, you know, I didn't think about, like, I had more [00:21:00] options than I thought. And so just going and asking people, just showing up, just, um, starting my own thing.
Just, you know, that whole world was new to me and Brian challenged me like a, like a dad. Um, kind of uncomfortable and kind of made me mad at point, but I look back and I'm thankful for that time and, um, it was hard but good, you know?
Riley: Man, I think there's so much value in those kind of mentor people that will speak truth, hard truth to us. You know that,
Ben Beers: Yeah.
Riley: story is funny because it's a big thing in your world, but I, I love to hear it myself because I'm like, we just, we need more men like that in our world. You know, more mentors that'll just
Ben Beers: Yes.
Riley: just call you up, call, call you out and say, Hey dude, it's time for you to be a man and get out there and do some stuff.
Hurt your feelings a bit. You've said that multiple times over the years and yeah, the best thing in the world sometimes to get your feelings hurt. [00:22:00] Yeah,
Ben Beers: Yeah. You know, if you gotta love a guy enough to tell him what he needs to hear sometimes, and it's hard, but good.
Riley: yeah, yeah, man. Um, that's gonna come up here later in our conversation here, but, um, yeah, I want to move on to just kind of what, what this started to look like as a transition, right? So you get this idea to buy this gutter machine and, and, hey, I'm gonna start, do some side, some side jobs. Ben, when you first, when you first did your, your first couple jobs, what did that look like, man, because, sometimes I think people get this idea that when you start a thing, you're just gonna be instantly good at it. And that's not how it worked out in your world, was it?
[00:23:00]
Ben Beers: No, I'm still learning. But uh, you know, it was hard and frustrating and, um, I was kicking myself. I had never, I mean, I was pretty handy. I could, you know, I had helped to build a house before and roofed and all that, but, uh, I was no professional by any means. Um, [00:24:00] and so this first job we do, I get, uh, I have a bunch of roofing buddies up here, and roofing and gutters go hand in hand.
So they said, Hey, we'll get you a few jobs, get you started. And so, um, I got this job for this old farmer and my buddy had just roofed his house and he set me up to do the gutters. And, um, so I went and bought all this material and I'm asking the guys at the supply house, all this kindergarten questions and thousand, and they were very helpful.
They're very thankful. Um,
Riley: mean
Ben Beers: and then I take my son, oh, just stuff that, you know, anybody should know. Uh, I have a gutter business and I don't know this, you know, they're kinda looking at me like. You are in over your head buddy. But, um, just very basic stuff that I had to learn, you know, somehow. And, uh, so my oldest son, he was probably 12 [00:25:00] at the time, and, uh, I said, buddy, we're gonna make some money coming with me on Saturdays and we're working.
And he was excited. And uh, so we get out there and we have this old used machine, old blue we called it. And uh, you know, it comes in these coils, you know, used to do siding and uh, it rolls through the machine. And so we got everything we thought we needed, set it up, plug it in, hit the button, and we're all excited.
This gutter's gonna come out. And I hear all these noises and pretty soon smoking, I jammed that thing to the worst I've ever jammed it,
Riley: No.
Ben Beers: and I didn't know. And so it took us two hours digging that out. And just every part of that job. Uh, we had the wrong size, drill bits, everything. My wife was running back and forth for me.
And, um, and thankfully this whole farmer, he is a nice guy and he was out working, so he didn't really pay attention. But [00:26:00] I did, it all actually took me like two weeks because I did on Saturday, I'd come back at nights. Um, and this little job that, like our crew today would do probably three or four hours, um, took me two weeks going back out after work until it was dark.
And, um, and just learning as I go. And it was tough, but, uh, but it still gave me this, like, once you got done, you know, a sense of accomplishment and like, man, what if this like, we could speed this up. What if, you know, we could make this grow? And, um. So it was the first year or two was kinda like that, just at nights, weekends, working with Kayla, my son, and, um, learning the hard way.
I would go on, uh, I would go to these new subdivisions that have houses that are built, but nobody lives in them. And I'd get my ladder out and crawl, crawl up there, [00:27:00] act like I was working there and just watch and see what they did, how they built these gutters and take pictures. And um, and it was about a year later, I realized on that first job I had done something wrong.
I sealed a corner wrong and I thought, man, I gotta go back that, that old farmer, he is not paying attention, but that's probably leaking. So I called him up and then I said, Hey, I wanna come inspect that work. And he's like, oh sure. And uh, sure enough, it wasn't done right. So I fixed it a year later for him.
But. But just learning the hard way, you know?
Riley: No. story's cool, dude. I've never heard it before. I, you climbing up on these houses and, and, uh, you know, acting like you work there. That's the boldness. I think that sometimes it takes as an entrepreneur to get out there and, know, you called it kindergarten questions before, which I think is, is just a great term. But you had the [00:28:00] humility to actually ask them in front of guys who you
Ben Beers: yeah,
Riley: would question like, why is this guy asking these questions?
You know? you, you gotta learn somewhere. That's what you said. You know? I, I love it.
Ben Beers: yeah.
Riley: Love it. Did you ever have anybody question you being on a job site?
Ben Beers: Um, not that I remember, you know, probably, but nothing stands out.
Riley: Have you seen these two guys on, there's, there's a couple of guys on YouTube that are. Decided that if you have a ladder in a, in a fluorescent vest, you can get into any facility free of charge. Have you seen that?
Ben Beers: No, but I believe it. I think, yeah. If you just act like you know what you're doing, nobody even thinks about it.
Riley: so funny, man. I love it. Um, that's a life lesson, dude. Act like you know what you're doing and you know, people don't know the difference. There's you, you've heard the
Ben Beers: Yep,
Riley: it till you make it, you know, sometimes that's what it looks like, and that's sort of, kind of what you did, right?
Ben Beers: sure. Yeah. And, uh, you know, I was [00:29:00] always challenged in my brain of doing the right thing, so there was times where I was like, I'd have to go back. And, uh, it was a struggle, you know, like, no one's gonna know, but let's just do it. Right. And, uh, so yeah, I dealt with all that. Still do sometimes. Awesome.
Riley: Sure, sure, man, that that
Ben Beers: Yeah.
Riley: tough. But that's what it takes. I mean, I love
Ben Beers: Yeah.
Riley: You've gotta learn somehow. You really have to, and I, uh,
Ben Beers: Yeah.
Riley: you were, you were there as we started up salty electrolytes, right? And then back in the beginning of that, and in fact you
Ben Beers: Mm-hmm.
Riley: of the early formulas that were ridiculously terrible. And, uh, you know, it's kind of the same thing. We just, we learned as we went and
Ben Beers: Yeah.
Riley: some stuff and it didn't work. And then we did the research to figure out why it didn't work, and then it was, know, at a time until we, we had it down, but it was, you know, several years of figuring it out. But a
Ben Beers: Yeah.
Riley: is also several years of figuring it out, right?[00:30:00]
Ben Beers: Yeah. And I think, uh, for me, figuring out with my hands on has worked way better.
Riley: What, uh, do you have any advice for, for somebody who's kind of in that early stages of maybe thinking about going out on their own, on, know, where and how to get the education they need? I.
Ben Beers: Yeah. I mean, I think for me, I still think this way. The most valuable thing is just, um, surrounding your find guys who will walk you through stuff, you know? Um. I'm toot your horn Riley, but you've been that guy for me. Um, right when I started, we met and, uh, asked you if we could just go get coffee, talk about business, and um, that was what, nine, 10 years ago?
We've been doing it ever since. And, uh, it's been so invaluable to me. Um, Brian, my old pastor was that to me and just, you know, if you can find guys [00:31:00] who think differently, who think, um, as problem solvers and not just put your hands up, you can't figure it out. And, um, that's, that would, that would make or break anybody?
I think when they're starting out,
Riley: It's funny, man. 'cause I, it's, I think at the beginning of this thing, I said it was, uh, five or six years ago that you started this thing, but it's, it's been eight or nine. Huh. Which
Ben Beers: we're, uh,
Riley: out. 'cause
Ben Beers: going on.
Riley: that we met, that's when we
Ben Beers: Okay.
Riley: to awaken church there.
Ben Beers: Yeah, 2017 is when I bought that machine, so
Riley: Shoot,
Ben Beers: almost nine years now.
Riley: uh, that years are passing faster than I like to admit. I think.
Ben Beers: I know.
Riley: No, I, I remember that invite, man. And I was, I was pretty honored that you would, would even ask, um. But as I got talking to you, I was like, man, Ben probably thinks I'm freaking crazy. 'cause I have ideas in, in ways, I think, and sometimes they are a little outside the box, you know?
And, [00:32:00] um, they're good ideas, sometimes they're not. So yeah,
Ben Beers: No, it's been, uh, beyond just creating a great friendship, uh, so valuable to me, you know? And, uh, someone who, so you own a, you ran a sighting business, similar kind of business, and so that's very valuable to me. You, you run with a lot of the same crowd in the gutter world, and so. Um, no, it's been, I would say anybody's starting anything and it doesn't even have to be someone within the industry, just somebody who thinks like a outside the box a little bit, thinks like entrepreneur.
It's a whole different world.
Riley: it's definitely a mindset thing, man. It's, there's a. Being willing to try stuff that you pretty sure is not gonna
Ben Beers: Mm-hmm.
Riley: attempt. The, you know, not, not taking no for an answer sometimes. Um, yeah, I think that's a big deal.[00:33:00]
Ben Beers: Yeah.
Riley: man, you got me thinking. I, you know, you talked about jamming that machine up, and this is just a little side story, but I, I think I've told you this before, I'm pretty sure, but we had a, a similar machine, but it made siding
Ben Beers: Okay.
Riley: and not gutters. And, and we had, we were working on the back of this house one time. We were in the backyard and we were, we were doing some stuff and something shorted out in our machine. We don't know if the control, the full foot feed pedal that on the ground, if that got water in it or something. But reason that machine turned on and we weren't back there, or, you know, out there watching.
And, and, uh, we'd, we'd get these rolls of steel that were a thousand pounds, you know, and, and it just started
Ben Beers: Oh yeah,
Riley: out the back of that trailer and we had no idea. And finally, like, I don't know. Five minutes later, man, some, some guy comes walking around, he's like, is that you guys machine out back or out front there?
And I said, yeah. And he goes, you got a problem? And we run out there, dude, and it's like, there's like [00:34:00] 300 feet of siding piled up and it looks like a train wreck out there. And it's covering, it's blocking the street. It's just piles of it just out there bending all up. And you know, we, I was
Ben Beers: that's a lot of.
Riley: but it was, it was kind of funny all at the same time. We, uh, we
Ben Beers: Yeah.
Riley: buy more material to finish that job because it was such a, such a mess. But
Ben Beers: Yeah. That's a lot of money pushing through there.
Riley: Yeah, at the time, you know, this was back, that from, gosh, I started that in 96 and went through.
Ben Beers: Hmm
Riley: 2010, almost 2009. And, uh,
Ben Beers: hmm.
Riley: yeah, it was, it was probably somewhere around 2002, but I think we were paying around dollar a pound for steel, which was about a, you know, a pound, a foot. So I'm thinking, you know,
Ben Beers: Yeah.
Riley: 350 feet of that stuff, sitting out there on the ground was a fairly expensive thing for the little startup
Ben Beers: Oh yeah.
Riley: It was wild.
Ben Beers: Yeah. We've had a few things like that ourselves, but
Riley: Yeah. The [00:35:00] adventures of the role forming machines is great, but,
Ben Beers: yeah.
Riley: man, so, okay, dude, so you, uh, you make this jump, you do a couple jobs, you find out later they weren't exactly perfect and you go back and fix 'em.
But, uh, long did the transition take before you were finally ready to actually make the jump to full-time?
Ben Beers: You know, couple years. Um, I was doing that on the nights and weekends and, uh, it was great hanging out with my son and doing that, and he was making money. It was fun for him. But, uh, there was a point where it was just too much. And, you know, we were doing the ministry stuff. I was super involved in our church at the time.
And, um, so I learned a real hard lesson like 2019, um, of just 18, 19, just burning myself down and like. [00:36:00] I didn't have like this moral failure breakdown, but like just started dealing with anxiety and just, uh, my brain wasn't working. I was just working 40, 50 hours railroad and then I'd do 20 hours of gutters and I'd to do all this ministry stuff.
And it was not saying no to anything, and it was stupid. And so, you know, I started stepping, I started missing appointments, the stuff that I wasn't usually doing, um, I just couldn't keep up. So I sat down with my wife, who's, um, always encouraging me. She's, she was a cheerleader as a kid and she's still a cheerleader for me, but she says, babe, you just gotta pick one thing and just go, you know, so, and I knew that.
And so, uh, I kind of talked to my bosses at the railroad and. Um, the one thing that kept me [00:37:00] there, you know, the pay wasn't bad, but it wasn't like spectacular. It was, uh, benefits were really good, you know, and we had some health stuff in our family we were battling, so it was kind of scary to jump from that.
So I went and talked to my bosses and, um, had a really good relationship with those guys. They're still good friends and just told 'em what I've been doing. They already knew. And I told 'em, I'm thinking about doing this, you know, but do you guys, is there any path forward for me here? And they were honest and they said, you know, you could be a manager and run, make some good money, but you'd have to move and I don't wanna move, you know, so they were honest.
They said, we'd love to have you, but I understand if you're gonna do your own thing. And uh, so we kind of came up with a plan together. And they said, well, what if you just kind of started your own thing but worked a couple days a month, [00:38:00] still stay on the roster, it's gonna help your retirement and all that.
And I thought I was really honored that they even gave me that opportunity, you know? And um, and then they wanted the door open too. If I crashed and burned on my own, they wanted me back. So it was a win-win for both of us. And so I did that for, oh, probably a year, but uh, it got to where I just wasn't available to 'em.
And we both kind of decided, you know, I'd go in once a month just to mark down some hours, but they got a schedule and they gotta run everything too, so I understand. So we just said, let's, let's call it. And uh, if I ever wanted to, I could go back. But
Riley: I remember that was
Ben Beers: yeah, it was slow drawn out process.
Riley: I remember that was a thing. 'cause uh, when you, when you. First, you and I first started meeting and talking about this kind of thing, and you mentioned a couple things in there. One of them was that learning how to [00:39:00] say no. 'cause I had learned that lesson the hard way years ago.
It's like, man, sometimes you just gotta say no to some stuff and it can be really good stuff,
Ben Beers: Yeah.
Riley: it's just not
Ben Beers: Yeah.
Riley: And so, you know, sometimes you just have to say no. And, and I remember that was hard for you. That was a, that was a hard transition.
Ben Beers: Mm-hmm.
Riley: then, you know, these conversations, because I remember suggesting like, Hey man, have you ever thought about asking the railroad if you can cut back hours or maybe just work weekends or do you know some other arrangement to kind of wean yourself off slowly? And I remember right, you were a little nervous about asking man.
Ben Beers: Yeah, I mean, that goes back to that. I just didn't think you could do that. You know, like. Well, what do you mean? I have a choice in that I have a say I can negotiate, you know, like that thinking is new. And, uh, so I had to learn that, you know, I had to learn that, [00:40:00] you know, now as an employer, I got guys that work for me and I, I, I would love for them to come talk to me if, if they were thinking of leaving and let's work something out.
You know, like, but most people don't think that way or not most. I didn't think that way.
Riley: I think that's a common misunderstanding sometimes is, uh, thinking, you know. There's only one way this looks, this job looks this way. And
Ben Beers: Yeah,
Riley: it now from an employer perspective, right? You're going, Greg, no. There's a lot of ways we can do things different. And, and like you just said,
Ben Beers: yeah.
Riley: rather have my guy come to me and say, Hey, can I cut my hours back than say, Hey, I'm gone tomorrow. You know, that's a
Ben Beers: Yeah.
Riley: more negotiation, a lot more, um, lot more ways to skin the cat than on or
Ben Beers: Oh yeah.
Riley: In or out,
Ben Beers: I mean, jumping back to when I was 19, I had worked in the railroad a couple years and I was a [00:41:00] big skier and I had to ski trip planned, but I'd used up all my vacation,
Riley: man.
Ben Beers: I was going to Canada for a week, and I didn't understand I could have went and talked to them. So that's the first time I left the railroad because I just wanted to go skiing for a week and I didn't have any vacation, so I quit.
And looking back, I was like, dude, they would've just let me come back and go, you know, like they might've harassed me a little bit, but I just didn't think that way, you know?
Riley: Dude, I had a real similar experience to that. I had a, a job when I was 19 was doing, uh, I was putting trailer houses on foundations. Um, I don't know if I ever told you that, but we would, you know, lift them up
Ben Beers: Hm.
Riley: out on the foundations, on these beams and roller skates, you know, basically.
And, you know, you got a, a house that weighs 30,000 pounds above your head, wobbling around on these piers, you know, it was, it was crazy, but,
Ben Beers: Oh yeah.
Riley: job. But [00:42:00] it was, it was kind of fun and adventurous. But I, yeah, I wanted to go on a vacation and, uh, you know. me, no, you gotta work this this weekend.
And I just went, no, I don't. I was gone. I'm going anyways.
Ben Beers: Yeah.
Riley: Like Yeah.
Ben Beers: That happens all the time, I'm sure. Yeah.
Riley: We were making a whopping $5 an hour at that job, man. It was back in the day. Yeah.
Ben Beers: Yeah,
Riley: I even got a raise at one point to 5 25. I think that was the,
Ben Beers: man. I remember.
Riley: I love it. I love it, man. It's just 'cause we're old. I'm old.
Ben Beers: Yep. Yeah, I'm getting there.
Riley: And so tell me this, man, you, uh, when you went full-time into this thing, what did that feel like? Because you're, you're talking about like always having 40 hours a week. solid, you know, job that's always there doesn't [00:43:00] really have ups and downs as far as recession. And that stuff goes and all of a sudden, dude, you're like. I gotta provide for myself what that feel like.
Ben Beers: Yeah. Uh, it was scary, you know, um, you walked me through a lot of that. Um,
but it had, I sensed this freedom, you know, like, um, I've always, since I started my own, worked a lot and, you know, average probably 60 hours a week, but there's this freedom to it still that I appreciate. Um. That I have some say over when I work, you know, and I'm still making all my kids games and, um, doing the important stuff.
But, you know, there might be a day where I'm waking up super early and working or working late and I'm fine with that. But, uh, just being in control that a little more. And, um, and there was this light bulb in my head that clicked [00:44:00] that's, you know, when I was working for the railroad, there was just so much I could make.
You know, they only let you get so much overtime and you didn't have a choice. You worked that much every time. And so once I realized, well, this is kind of up to me. I can get more efficient, I can get higher prices, I can do all that. I can really affect this and a lot more control of this, a lot more responsibility.
But I kinda liked that, you know? And so, uh, scary but good. And then I remember you telling me, uh. When I was getting ready to make that jump, you kept telling me like, you know, every time you, you're going to hire a guy or you're gonna grow or you're gonna, it's gonna have that same feeling. And, uh, you were right because, uh, when I hired my first guy, I was like so nervous and it was the same feeling, and then we bought another trucks.
It's same feeling, and that's [00:45:00] still every time. It's, it's scary, but
Riley: Funny man. Every, every step forward comes with, you know, it's, it's fearful man. Like, you, you, you've got this big
Ben Beers: mm-hmm.
Riley: you're in, in a zone where you haven't been before, right? And so those
Ben Beers: Yeah.
Riley: can be very scary. I remember every one of 'em, man. I just, I
Ben Beers: Yeah.
Riley: It's
Ben Beers: Yeah.
Riley: um, When you talk about hiring your first employee, man, 'cause I, I wanna. That's a, a bit of a jump forward, but in a few years. But, uh,
Ben Beers: Sure.
Riley: making the jump to full time, like you did this very wise, you took your steps right, and you were patient. And I think that
Ben Beers: Mm-hmm.
Riley: people aren't patient and they jump too soon.
And, and if your ship's not pulled up to the dock and you jump off there, you're gonna get wet.
Ben Beers: Yeah. [00:46:00] Yeah.
Riley: you, you kind of did that part, right? And, uh, but then it comes to hiring, hiring somebody for the first time. Um, talk about what the experience was like as far as finding someone who you thought was a good fit. Um, and you know, what that looks like on a day-to-day basis. When you get to do that good old thing we call delegation,
Ben Beers: Yeah, well it was a whole different world when I just was, had my teenage son working with me. You know, I would just tell him when he is working and he has to get in the truck and go if he wants dinner.
Riley: control of his
Ben Beers: And he's a great kid. Yeah, I had control and I wasn't a dictator and you know, he's a great kid. And, um, but it was way different.
Um, and I kind of, I kind of stepped into, I had a buddy or two that I knew just from friends or church looking for side work and so I'd work those guys and that was easy. 'cause you know, if they were there, they were there. [00:47:00] If not, I'd figure it out. But the idea of like bringing a guy on to where this is his full-time income, um, man, that's a lot of responsibility.
And actually one of my best friends, he just moved back from Texas. He was a really successful in big corporate world, uh, and wanted to just slow down and move back home, small town and just be there for his family. And he started working for me on the side. And then, uh, we started talking like, man, what if this, what if we just make this work full time?
And he's super, one of the just all star guys, you know, uh, hardworking, trustworthy, can't find a more honest guy. So that part of it, I was like, okay, this is easy. He's, he's the hardest working guy I've ever met. The part of it, like, okay, I care about this guy. He's like [00:48:00] family. And, um, I don't want this to get in the way of a friendship.
I don't wanna screw this up where your family suffers. You know? And so I took that on and I probably more than I should have. And I think it's still a struggle 'cause I always hire these guys I know. But, um, he's still with us. He, he's, uh, manages our crews and stuff now and a great man. And, but, uh, it's been, we've been to navigate, you know, what this looks like as friends is, um, not, we don't wanna hurt this relationship.
And it's hard to shut it off sometimes. Like, Hey, we're out riding dirt bikes. We're not work. You know, it's, it's a dynamic we have to walk through. But it's been great. But, uh, a lot of responsibility.
Riley: What, um, you, you've, you've used that word responsibility several times, man. And I, I know that sometimes as the owner of a business, people can think that like, you are a dictator. You know, [00:49:00] you business owners, they just love fire and people, and it's, uh, you know, they're just, they're always. It kind of relish that power they yield.
But you're, you, you use the word responsibility, man, in that it's scary as crap when you first realize that you're gonna trade someone eight hours of their day, 10 hours of their day, and their family and their kids are gonna rely on you providing the dang work and the, and the money for their
Ben Beers: Mm-hmm.
Riley: That's what really happens behind the scenes, isn't it?
[00:50:00]
Ben Beers: Yeah. And, uh, I'm actually upset. I, I struggle with delegating. I struggle with telling guys what to do, and I want to be their friends. And, and so when I hire one of my best friends, uh, I. I mean, I've talked to you about it nonstop. It was hard. And it's because I care about him. I don't wanna screw that up.
And, um, you know, it, I feel like we're blessed because just the guys, Scott is, you know, I have guys that, plenty of guys I know that I don't think it would've worked very well. Um, but he, he was in it and he's understanding and, uh, he's figuring it out with me. And so it's been really [00:51:00] good. Um, but, uh, it's challenging and it, it is responsibility.
You know, I, I've taught my kids since they were little, like freedom and responsibility are connected in my mind. So you want lots of freedom. I'm cool with that, but you just gotta be really responsible and, and, uh, it's worked well for them. And it is similar in business, I think.
Riley: Oh, man. That was beautifully said. I, I, uh, you, you said something else in there too about the relationship, you know, the friend relationship versus the business relationship. And I, uh, I want you to dive into that a little because I, I've described it in my businesses, like both of my companies at least. Uh, for some time my wife was involved. Right. Um. We would talk about it almost as if we're wearing hats and when, when we're at work, man, I'm not husband, I'm not honey, I'm not [00:52:00] baby, I'm not sweetheart, I'm Riley. And just like, just like the other people would call me, right?
Um, and we, we had to, we had to have that conversation we're, there's some, if you call me sweetheart at work or, or you know, whatever schmo or whatever name you decide to call me, that carries a different weight than the other coworkers would be able to carry. And, and you know, your position in the company doesn't warrant that.
And so we have to keep those things separate. And that was a, that's always a funny conversation 'cause it's like, all right, when we're going to work, um, if I, if I have a correction to, if I correct you as your boss, I'm correcting you as your boss, not as your husband. And, you know, that's a,
Ben Beers: Yeah,
Riley: touch and go, man.
Ben Beers: it's tough dynamic. Yeah. Um, you know, I still probably don't have it right. I'm still always learning, but, uh, we've gotten way better at it. Um, when it was just me and Scott. Uh, it was awesome. You know, we gotta hang [00:53:00] out every day, work together. Um, and when we started bringing other guys on is when it kind of became a realization to me, like, okay, we gotta treat this like it's a business and these are positions.
And, um, because.
You know, like you said the other, now there's people watching, now there's like people that wanna be treated like everyone else and fair and they should be. And so, uh, it's been a learning experience and, and by no means have it all figured out yet, but
Riley: Do
Ben Beers: we're getting there.
Riley: what's been the kinda the biggest delegating delegation challenge you've had? Man, let's tell us some stories.
Ben Beers: Um, man, just letting guys figure stuff out and do it is, is hard.
Riley: What do you
Ben Beers: But, um, you [00:54:00] know, like most of us guys, we just think we can, it's easier. Just do it ourselves. I'll do it quicker and I'll faster and I got too much to do to sit here and let you figure it out. And, um, you know, you've taught me a lot in this and made me realize like, uh, so honor.
Uh, one of our, we came up with these core values for our company, honor. Um, creating a culture of honor is like our number one thing. And I realized I'm not honoring my guys when I'm babysitting. You know, I'm not letting 'em do it. I'm not letting them figure it out. And I had to learn stuff the hard way.
Everyone should have to, and, you know, we can put some boundaries in place so it doesn't like crash and burn everything, but to let someone figure it out and then they get some, um, dignity, you know, like, oh yeah, they're just built like I am. I like figuring it out. I like learning and I wanna do it right.
And, um, so looking at it that way has been [00:55:00] kind of a game changer for me is like, if I wanna honor someone, I need to let them do it. I need to let them feel the weight of it if it's done wrong, and then, um, not rescue and fix it all. And kind of sit back and let it play out. And then, uh, you know, if it's the right guy that wants to do it right, he's gonna fix it and
Riley: You, you said let them feel the weight of it. Man, I, uh,
Ben Beers: Yeah.
Riley: term because that's, that is dignity, right? They, they made a decision. It may or may not have been a good one. It, you know, in this context it probably wasn't. letting them feel that it's like, oh man. I gotta fix my mistake now and then letting them
Ben Beers: Yeah.
Riley: man, that's part of good delegation, I think.
And it's beautifully said.
Ben Beers: Yeah. And I think most people want to, you know, they, you let, let 'em, and, um, I know I want to, if I make a mistake, I [00:56:00] wanna be the one to fix it, but.
Riley: Yeah, that's a huge mistake, man, of when people, and you'll hear it a lot of times, especially with managers who are also employees, you'll hear, they'll talk down to other people, you know, these people are so stupid they don't understand, and that's, that's often the case. It's not that they're stupid. It's probably because you're stepping in there and, and uh, doing stuff for them. And then they're sitting there like, like, I could've done it. That's what you hired me for. And, you know, then they're discouraged 'cause like, oh, you're just gonna step in and do it anyways. I might as well just stand here. And then they don't feel the dignity.
They don't
Ben Beers: Yeah.
Riley: that you've put any trust in them because you've shown that you don't trust them by doing it for 'em. think that's a,
Ben Beers: Yeah.
Riley: like non-intuitive relational thing that happens in a, in a business relationship.
Ben Beers: Yeah. And I definitely, um. I've had to go apologize to Scott and, and the guys 'cause I've, I had done it wrong and it's, it's still challenge and, you know, as we're [00:57:00] growing handing more stuff off, um, we go through that same process with whatever department we're handing off, or, you know, it's like, we're starting over again.
Okay. I'm gonna let you do it. Here's how we should do it. Um, but, you know, it's, it's been good because we, we all learn from the guys and all of us as long as we talk it out and we're good.
Riley: And what's that experience? So you said you've, you've apologized to people who, in a business relationship or your subordinates been, um, what, what was that experience like?
Ben Beers: Um, you know, I can just read people so I know like, um, if somebody wants to do it right and then I step in and. Change it. Or if I tell them, Hey, you're ordering material, and then I'm just trying to be efficient and I do it myself. Uh,
Riley: I.
Ben Beers: you know, I need to, I recognize that and I've gone, like, [00:58:00] for instance, material is something I'm handing off to Scott and he's doing great.
Um, there's, you know, I start super early in the morning, so sometimes I'm looking at something that needs to be done, and I'm thinking, and just efficiency in my head, Hey, if I order this now, I'd be ready by the time we get there. And so I do it, and then I realize like I've just asked them to do it, and now I'm doing, you know, and my heart's just to be fast and efficient, but sometimes it's, it's better to just slow down.
And so I, I'll go and I'll say, you know, I appreciate your patience. I shouldn't have done that. This is your responsibility. Let's keep going that way, but.
Riley: I think that humility to being able to apologize when you screwed up as a leader, right? Just to go in there and say, dude, I just messed this up and I'm sorry. I'm gonna stay outta your way. 'cause that, that, well, staying outta their way, that's a whole nother thing too, right?
Ben Beers: yeah.
Riley: hire them, you train them, you put all this time into them, and then once they, once they're kind of on their own, they're gonna do things a little different than you.
And [00:59:00] stay outta that man.
Ben Beers: And
Riley: their department now.
Ben Beers: yeah, that's hard.
Riley: Yeah.
Ben Beers: But, um, but it's, it's cool 'cause I see Scott he's doing the same thing with, uh, as he's learning, he's delegating stuff to our crew lead and he just wants to do it 'cause he is super efficient, fast. And so he's doing the same process with me. And so if I just set the tone of humble, we're always learning.
Um, it just carries down to those, to everybody. And.
Riley: Yeah. What, um, what have you experienced when it comes to just, just, you know, the hard parts of business, right? When you've had to cut someone loose and tell 'em they don't get to work here anymore because they've, they've screwed up or they've, you know, they've done something that makes it untenable for them to continue to work with you.
What, what's that like?
Ben Beers: Oh, it sucks. I'm a, i, I [01:00:00] like people pleasing, you know, I like people like me, like everyone and, uh, so I wanna be everybody's buddy. Um, it's like parenting, you know, there's times where it's so much easier. I just be your friend and we just go hang out. But you do something that needs corrected and it's my duty as dad to, for your own good to make sure that you know that what to do.
And, and it's similar concept and, uh, and guys that work. You know, we've had one guy that worked with us for a couple years and he was a good dude and, um, going through a lot in his personal world, but, you know, Scott and I kind of grabbed him and we're like walking him through, you know, just work, but also life and as a man, giving him a second chance.
And, and he was doing really good. And then, uh, he got this bug in his ear. He was wanting to make much more money somewhere, and, which is fine, you know, I do too. [01:01:00] But we knew, uh, man, that's not your best move. I knew that's gonna throw him back into his old world. And, um, so we brought that up to him and, you know, I had hard conversations with him.
You know, I don't think this is a good idea for you. Not because I'm, I'm your, you know, I can't tell you what to do with your own life, but as a friend, as a brother, here's what I'm seeing. And, uh. You know, he, he didn't listen and he went off his own way and just crashed and burned and it was hard to watch.
And, um, you know, I beat myself up, man, I should have done this or that, and helped him. But he's grown up, made his own decisions. But yeah, that's probably the hardest part as business for me, to be honest. Is that dynamic of not just being everybody's friend, you know?
Riley: Yeah. Yeah, man, I, I think about, um, like [01:02:00] I said, people have this idea that business owners are, you know, the boss likes to, likes to put pressure on people and, and, you know, it's just not the case. It's just still not the case. It's,
Ben Beers: No,
Riley: you feel that
Ben Beers: no, you.
Riley: because you're, you're now responsible for, and you've, you've said that several times in this, episode, man, I just think it's so beautiful. Um, talk about this man. Do you, uh, what's, what's the thing about being self-employed, you like the most, earlier, early on in the conversation, you mentioned freedom. Is there, is there else
Ben Beers: Um, you know, that's probably the, my favorite, but it applies to everything, you know, freedom of time and, um, freedom, the ability to make more money, um, if you want to put in the work and the effort. Um, but yeah, just the freedom of time. My [01:03:00] family's everything to me. So, um, having the freedom to plan my schedule around family stuff is a big deal.
And, uh, and my family's, you know, my wife has been battling some health stuff for. A long time. And so the freedom to, Hey man, I'm gonna bust hard and work my tail off for the next few months 'cause we're trying to pay off this medical bill or something, you know? And then also the freedom of, you know, she had the recently go down to do some treatment in Utah and uh, I was able to go down there with her for, you know, a good part of it and do a lot of my work from, from there.
And so there was some freedom in that that I wouldn't necessarily have, um, if I was just working at McDonald's or something.
Riley: It. That's so cool, man. It's, that is, that is probably the number one reason I've remained [01:04:00] self-employed for my entire adult life is, is the freedom part. And
Ben Beers: Yeah.
Riley: times when, man, I didn't make as much money as I could have if I just went and got a job. But, know, I'm pretty reluctant to trade off that ability to set my own schedule and, you know,
Ben Beers: Oh, it's huge.
Riley: I think I traded one boss for 200 bosses, but you know,
Ben Beers: Yeah, sometimes, but, uh, no, it is overall I love it. You know, it's, um, I, I can go have coffee with Riley whenever I want and, uh, just schedule around it so it's good.
Riley: That's right, man. No, that's, that's always the highlight of my, my weeks when that happens. Dude, we, you guys
Ben Beers: Heck yeah.
Riley: Ben and I meet every other week for coffee and we have done so for Yeah. What, nine years now? So it's a
Ben Beers: Mm-hmm.
Riley: thing. I always look forward to
Ben Beers: Yeah.
Riley: Um, yeah man. So can we move on to some kinda lighter questions?
Ben Beers: Sure.
Riley: right. [01:05:00] Ben, this is called the Goer in Your SALT podcast. And when you hear those words goer in your salt, what does it mean to you? I.
Ben Beers: Um, you know, there's a way of thinking is it goes to mindset thing for me 'cause I'm reading books all the time about that. And, um,
I believe in God, but I believe God gives, uh, people choices. And I do believe God steps in and changes circumstances and has the ability to, but there's often times where he doesn't. And, um, this idea that we just kinda sit back and let life happen and it must just be God's will. You know, I don't like that thinking and, uh, it's not what I read in the, in my Bible.
It's not the way I understand it. So there's a point where you, man, um. You look at these guys that we look up to in, in the sports [01:06:00] worlds, in this business and Hollywood, whatever it is you love. And, um, the ones that are where you want to be are putting in the time they're putting in the effort. And, uh, for the most part, it wasn't just handed to 'em.
The ones that make it work for long haul, uh, they've built that character, they've built the endurance to do that. And so to me, that go on your salt is, um, man, we are so blessed to live where we live and the time we live, probably greater opportunities than any time in the history of man. You know? And so if we don't like go after that stuff, it's like we're not really stewarding our abilities and our time and God let us be born in this country in this time where all this opportunities are around us.
Um, I think it's, you know, it's our responsibility to. To go after that stuff and, and for the right [01:07:00] reasons to, to better our families or leave a legacy and all that good stuff. You know,
Riley: Man, that's beautiful. You're the man of wise words today, dude. Um, then
Ben Beers: I don't know.
Riley: of, uh,
Ben Beers: I,
Riley: of, uh, you know, your business and that kind of thing, what's, what's your favorite pastime? What do you do for fun?
Ben Beers: well, I'm a love dirt biking. Um, you know, my family doesn't really ride much, so I don't, I don't, uh, spend my whole life doing that. But, um, I grew up doing that. I really love it just being outside Idaho kid, um, hiking, camping, fishing, my wife out, fish me, but I still like going, um, really just hanging out with my family and friends, you know?
Um, just the usual.
Riley: You know. We went up camping with you guys one time, rented that Airbnb up in Idaho City. And your wife and my wife and myself, we [01:08:00] all went fishing while you and, and, uh, Caleb went dirt biking and I, I remember out fished me too. So I, you know, I still, I still kind of feel like I have a score to saddle.
Ben Beers: You do. I know she's good. Uh, she grew up fishing with her dad and, uh, she loves it. So
Riley: Yeah. I remember like, we're in this like little creek, it was Grimes Creek down there and, you know, I'm fishing, I'm not catching Jack man. And, and I look over there and she's got one on and she holds it up as a decent little fish. And then it wasn't two minutes later she had another one and I still hadn't caught one.
And I finally ended up catching a couple, but I think she had like seven and I had two. It was
Ben Beers: yeah, that's actually a quick little story. That's how I proposed to her. I took her fishing and she wasn't ready for it. But, uh, put the ring in a tackle box. And, uh, right there as we're, you know, got Worm gets on us and, uh, proposed to her. So it was fishing's pretty special for us.
Riley: pretty cool, man. [01:09:00] That's pretty cool. Thought you were gonna say, you put the, the ring in the fish's mouth.
Ben Beers: Eh, I thought about it, but
Riley: Yeah. You would've probably not
Ben Beers: I couldn't catch one.
Riley: back and then, oops.
Ben Beers: I know. Uh,
Riley: Oh my gosh. What, uh, Ben, what's your favorite band of all time?
Ben Beers: geez band. [01:10:00] So my son, he's my oldest son, he's 21. Uh, he'll be 21 in a few weeks, but, uh, he's been getting back into, he's listening to all this stuff I listened to when I was 19. You know, a lot of these, uh, Christian rock bands, cut list and switchfoot and all these cool guys that, um, and so I say lately I've been back in that world, so.
Cut less, um, just kind of that rock and roll. Good stuff, you know?
Riley: funny. That's one that I've heard of for years and years, but I, I don't know what they sing. Maybe I'd recognize it if I heard it, but that's not a familiar
Ben Beers: Yeah. You know, uh, my wife and I, before we got married, um, we went to church where they had this radio station, all this young Christian rock stuff. And so we went and, uh, that was our crew. And so we went to all the concerts and we did all the stuff with all those bands. So it was a fun time. But
Riley: Super [01:11:00] cool, man. I'm gonna have to check that out.
Ben Beers: yeah,
Riley: Ben, what's something quirky about you that most people don't know?
Ben Beers: all, oh, there's plenty. Um, I can't sit still, especially when I'm on the phone, so I just walk for miles while I'm talking on the phone. So sitting here talking to you is really hard not to move, but. I was talking with my son the other day. He called us right around Christmas on FaceTime and he was making me dizzy.
He wouldn't stop walking and I realized he got it from me, but
Riley: your boy, huh?
Ben Beers: yeah. Yeah,
Riley: bro, I'm the same way. I'm a pacer. It drives my wife nuts. 'cause I talk really loud when I'm on the phone and I pace and so I'm back and forth through the house having these loud conversations, interrupting everything, and I have to be very conscious of
Ben Beers: yeah, yeah, me too.
Riley: That's awesome. Favorite food.
Ben Beers: Oh, you got all these new [01:12:00] questions. I wasn't ready for, uh, Mexican food, you know. Good. Uh, good burrito or good taco is my go-to.
Riley: Oh, for real. Is there, uh,
Ben Beers: Yeah.
Riley: my sake, 'cause you know, I live here near you, but what's the
Ben Beers: Mm-hmm.
Riley: best place to get burritos or tacos?
Ben Beers: Uh, KBS Burrito. Ketchup Burrito. Have you been there?
Riley: we went there in Sun Valley
Ben Beers: I think yeah. You've been there with me.
Riley: the first time
Ben Beers: Yeah. That's, that's my favorite.
Riley: with you, maybe both times with you. But one time I really liked it and one time I wasn't real impressed. But yeah, the second time it was, it was super good. So they're, they're, know, I went back so it must have
Ben Beers: They're getting, they're getting there. Yeah.
Riley: Um, scariest moment of your life.
Ben Beers: Oh, geez. Scariest moment of my life. Um,[01:13:00]
you know, besides when I was, I still remember the first day of kindergarten. Um, it was scary. I didn't want to go. But that wasn't that big a deal. But, uh, probably this whole jumping out of the safety of a, the perceived safety of my nine to five and starting my own thing, I would say was pretty scary. I was a little worried that I was gonna screw stuff up for my family, you know?
But, um, it's been good.
Riley: Yeah, that's, uh, yeah, I think I know several people who are kind of in that transition right now just going from working a job their whole life into entrepreneurship and man, it's every time it's scary. It's scary.
Ben Beers: Oh man. I know.
Riley: but it's scary. Yeah. Um,
Ben Beers: Yeah, I had, I've been changing my thought 'cause I thought when I first met you, you know, there's just guys that are born that way and I agree. Some guys are a little [01:14:00] more used to the risk and okay with it. Um. But no matter where you're at, I think it's, there's scary times and you've gotta be willing to take a risk, and I don't think anybody gets away from that.
Riley: you know, it's a really funny thing, man. 'cause sometimes I think, and I know you and I have had this conversation, but I started as a, as a contractor for the siding company I worked for when I was 19 years old. They, they paid me as a sub, right? And so I was, I worked piece work. I didn't get paid an hourly wage.
I got paid by how much product I put up, you know, how much square footage I covered up in metal. And, uh. So even, even before that, I, I worked, um, as an employee, but I, I would get paid not hourly. And if I was ever given the choice, even as a kid, like you can get paid per foot or, you know, piece work they call it, or an hourly wage, I always would pick the hourly so that that part was built in[01:15:00]
Ben Beers: Mm-hmm.
Riley: impressed on me from a, from a young age.
However, it never made it not scary, right? And I remember
Ben Beers: Mm.
Riley: the few times I've actually been employed by someone else. I did the math, man, I remember being a young man and I remember thinking a customer is someone who gives you money for your service, right? Or your product. But if that's the case, this employer is my only customer. if this one customer decides to stop using my service, that's what's known as being fired or laid off. And.
Ben Beers: Yeah,
Riley: Dude, just as a young man, that's how my mind worked. Right? And I was like, that's scary. That's scary to me. I have one source for my income. And dude, I, so yeah, when,
Ben Beers: that's a good way to look at it.
Riley: to get into the business world and I realized, you know what? I can have a hundred different bosses. We call customers. You know, they're the people giving me money for my service. [01:16:00] If any 10 of those fire me today, I'm not gonna like it, but I survive it. And that felt less
Ben Beers: Yeah.
Riley: you know? And now it took some doing to get there and took a lot of learning.
And that learning curve is long, and it's,
Ben Beers: Mm-hmm.
Riley: hard. But that's kind of the way I thought about it, man. It was, uh, one customer, or hundreds of them, and that's,
Ben Beers: That's, no, you've taught me that. That's, I think, a very healthy way to look at it.
Riley: yeah. Not intuitive again, but it's, that was, uh, we, we, we take risk either way is what I'm saying, right?
Ben Beers: Yeah.
Riley: Yeah. Um. Ben, what's some advice you'd give your younger self?
Ben Beers: Um,
just that same thing we've been talking about, you know, uh, you got a lot more options than you realize. And, uh, don't be scared to take, take responsibility and try it. And, um. [01:17:00] You know, if you think about what's in our day and age, what's the worst that's gonna happen? You are gonna go find something else, you know?
And um, so when I was young Buck, I would just, uh, I wish I would've tried a little more and, uh, not just settled into that nine to five thinking, you know, earlier, but, so I would say, you know, take, take calculated risks more.
Riley: Calculated risk, man. That's it because I'm proud of you, dude. You, uh, you took that calculated risk, but you did it wisely. It was, the calculated part was in there, right? You took step by step
Ben Beers: Yeah.
Riley: at a time that you could, you could rewind if you needed to. didn't burn the bridges that were, you know, with your job.
You, you kept that relationship open and in good condition. there wasn't the up or the, you know, the, as they would say, the fu moment. There wasn't any of that. It was [01:18:00] just wise and,
Ben Beers: No.
Riley: you stepped stair stepped into it. And I think that's was the best thing you could have done. It was awesome. Um,
Ben Beers: Yeah.
Riley: then what's an item on your bucket list?
Ben Beers: Oh man. I feel pretty blessed 'cause I've checked off a lot of those and, um, my wife and I, you know, my youngest just turned 18, so my wife and I are talking a lot about this new season of, you know, empty house. And, uh, it's really weird, you know, a lot of people are all excited for that and I miss it already because, uh.
There's nothing I like better than being a dad, you know? And, um, so I'm still a dad. It just looks different. But, so I think, uh, you know, Mel and I have talked about what's this next season look like, you know, what's on our bucket list? And, um, I don't know, you know, do [01:19:00] we talk about starting a different business or selling some?
What's it look like? We wanted to sell it, you know? And then, um, I honestly, not trying to sound like over humble or over spiritual, but honestly don't have this big list of stuff that I need to do. You know, I just wanna,
Riley: Say that one more time. I didn't, didn't understand.
Ben Beers: I, I don't have a huge list of things that I wanna do that I don't already get. Do you know? Um. Hang out with my family and I get to do that all the time. And, uh, you know, as they get older and I become an old fart and grandpa someday, you know, I think my bucket list would just be that that's a solid relationship, you know,
Riley: Yeah.
Ben Beers: so,
Riley: That's beautiful, man. And what's your favorite book of all time?
Ben Beers: favorite book, um,[01:20:00]
it's gonna sound cliche, but, uh, the Bible is right here on my desk and, uh, read it every day. It's, it's changed my life. So, um, you know, I, I find myself just reading Proverbs and, um, there's so much like business knowledge in there and, um, just life knowledge as being a dad and a husband. And so I'm gonna have to go with, with the old, the safe number one book, number one seller of all time.
Riley: I love that you mentioned Proverbs though. 'cause I, I know that I've been in the kind of the down times or the, the bummed out times of business, um, life, you know, I, I got to, you know, the story, but I went through a major bankruptcy and lost everything I own when I was 32. And
Ben Beers: Hmm.
Riley: I got to feel that and, you know, but Proverbs man, that was where it was at.
And I remember spent a lot of time reading, [01:21:00] reading that man. It's just both challenging and, uh,
Ben Beers: Yeah.
Riley: at the same time.
Ben Beers: Yeah. I got, I got, uh, corrected reading that a couple years ago. Well, when I first started I was learning how to measure houses and I wasn't trying to like do anything unfair, but I would just take a measurement. I'd add a few feet, you know, and just to make up for scrap and all that. But I just wasn't communicating that very well with my clients.
And, uh, I. And it was funny 'cause I read my book, my Bible one day and it's talking about just scales and, you know, make sure your measurements are correct. Basically it's the way I read it and that same day I had a client call, call me out on this. He measured his house after I left and he, it didn't match up and I was just making accounts for corners and all that, but I didn't explain that to him.
And so [01:22:00] he thought I was trying to rip 'em off and it bothered me and I, 'cause I wasn't trying to, but um, I got corrected reading Proverbs real quick.
Riley: That's a, that's a cool lesson, dude. You
Ben Beers: Yeah, yeah,
Riley: again, more than one way to skin the cat. But if you don't communicate that right, you can inadvertently look dishonest. Right.
Ben Beers: yeah. Yeah.
Riley: Yeah, man. Yeah. So we could go on to that. I, you know, when you're talking about like communication, those words you don't say can be very important.
It's like, as a, as a businessman. Have you, do you got any thoughts on that or any, any, uh, experiences like this one or, or besides this one?
Ben Beers: Um, you know, that's the other, we've got these values, four, four core values, honor and communications [01:23:00] in there. And I realize real quick, uh, whether it's a family or a church or an organization or a business, it seems like that's usually the most challenging thing. And if you get someone that can simply communicate very simply and organized, uh, it's so valuable.
And I see in the contractor world, that's, uh, it gets, it's, it does not done well most of the time. And so if you can figure that out and communicate well, it doesn't take much to stand out above the rest. And, um, you know, just yesterday we got told, uh, that we send too much emails and I was kind of happy about that because yeah, I understand there's, it can be too much, but, uh, that's the first time in eight years I've been told that, but, um, it's usually the opposite.
[01:24:00] Um, so yeah, we still have, it's still a challenge, you know, as we get bigger, we, from department to department communicating things get mixed up pretty easy. So we're really intentional about making that work well. Um, but it's a daily battle. Um, you know, we just had a job we did where, uh, between the sale, the bid, the sale, the.
The job, uh, on our end, it got mixed up. So we only did half the job.
Riley: Oh.
Ben Beers: Um, and we actually, so we had to go back and do the other half for free, you know, and so little stuff like that, it's always a challenge, but, um, a communication thing's huge. If,
Riley: Have you ever heard that quote that says, uh, the problem with communication is the illusion that it's taken place.
Ben Beers: yes, I, I agree. I've heard a story of a gutter company that [01:25:00] put gutters on the wrong house, and, uh, I can totally see how that happened.
Riley: saw a news
Ben Beers: You know,
Riley: the other day of a roofing company that tore the roof off a wrong house, and they were
Ben Beers: I believe it.
Riley: before
Ben Beers: know
Riley: The lady came home from work, she's like, what are you doing? And then, yeah, supposed to be in the neighbor's house.
Ben Beers: you just got a free roof.
Riley: she did.
Ben Beers: Yep.
Riley: I hope Anyways, you know, I don't know.
Ben Beers: Yeah. Yeah. It should.
Riley: the roof, but, oh my gosh. Um, Ben, what's, uh, what, what's, what's next do you think? What, where are you going from here?
Ben Beers: So we've, uh, we spent all last year really thinking about growing and what it looks like. So we've reached out, now we're hitting, uh, we're in the Treasure Valley here. We've done really well on the west side. Now we're after the Boise and the bigger city park. So we spent a lot of time marketing over there and just setting up our platforms.
Um, on that [01:26:00] end, we got another truck ready, so we're in a good spot for the start of the year to really be able to grow fast. And so, uh, it's been a long, hard struggle to get our name out there beyond our usual territory, but, uh, we've been doing it and it's starting to pay off. So,
Riley: That's awesome, man.
Ben Beers: so we want, we just wanna keep growing and, but do it in a healthy way, you know?
Riley: Yeah. Well, Ben, where can you, where can you be found on the inner webs?
Ben Beers: Well, my whole world is Google, you know? So, uh, we've got a couple of Google maps and pages that we spend a lot of time. That's where most of our work comes from. Um, we've got a website, Idaho seamless gutter.com that we spend a lot of time working on. And then, um, we're on the Facebook and Instagram world.
My wife takes care of that for me. But, um, yeah, any of those spots, you can see what we're doing.
Riley: Nice man. We'll, uh, put all your contact info in [01:27:00] the description below this episode. But, um, dude, I appreciate you coming on and being willing to come in here and rerecord because we had problems the first time. So, um, it was an
Ben Beers: No,
Riley: Have you on the show,
Ben Beers: I'm honored. I am, uh, sure. Appreciate your friendship and appreciate uh, all you're doing. I love watching you take on this new stuff. Just, uh, I learned a lot just from watching you and, um, just the way you take care of your family and, uh, your priorities are, I really look up to it. So
Riley: Just
Ben Beers: you.
Riley: like everybody. We're making it up as we go. Right?
Ben Beers: Yep,
Riley: Awesome man. Ben, my friend, go earn your salt.
Ben Beers: Alright. Thank you Riley.
[01:28:00]