David Schlachter: [00:00:00] sometimes going all in on something and never shifting from that doesn't allow the mind space to actually think about what's going on.
Riley: All right. to the show today. Uh, David Schlachter with ab Abstract Chimp Shoes. I, uh, get a little tongue tied there, but, uh, to kind of bring you guys into why I invited David onto this, this podcast was, he's, he's got a, a relatively new startup company building shoes, and they're the minimalist, barefoot style, uh, wide toe box.
No, no [00:01:00] Rise in the sole. And I've been a barefoot runner slash barefoot shoe user for, gosh, it, we were discussing around in 15 years now. And, uh, I joined the, I joined the Little Barefoot Shoe Cult a long time ago, and I, I've stuck with it since. And I'm, I'm a huge fan. Uh, we're also Juujitsu Brothers, man.
We, we, we both share that as a, as a common interest, common sport. And, uh, I learned of David through a friend of mine, Carlos Machado, and his podcast Coffee Time with Char, uh, with Carlos. So, uh, shout out to, to Carlos here. But I watched that episode and became super interested 'cause we just have a lot in common here.
So, David, welcome to the show, man.
David Schlachter: Thank you for having me, Riley. Excited to be here.
Riley: this is super cool. So tell me, tell me you man. Who's David?
David Schlachter: So, um, yeah, I'm, I'm, uh, David, I've, I've grown up in San Diego and moved to Dallas probably like five years ago. I [00:02:00] was out there for five years and I just got back to San Diego about two months ago. But, uh, yeah, I was training over at Carlos Machado and, uh, he was nice enough to let me on his show and share with everyone my shoes.
Um, my family's been the shoe business for over 20 years, and so it developed a little bit of a path for me to venture out and create my own brand. Kind of like a branch off of the tree, if you will. And, uh, yeah, they. For the most part, they've had all sorts of shoes from Nike, Puma, Adidas, to even now some barefoot shoes.
And, uh, I started to get versed in some barefoot shoes about when I headed out to Dallas five years ago. And when I tried to pair on, I was just all in, like, it, it, the, the, the difference meant the world to me. Like just having your toes go from this to kind of splayed [00:03:00] out and with some space to like move.
It was incredible. And, uh, yeah, I think being obsessed with health and wellness too. I knew I wanted to do something in that space as well as start a brand. And I thought it was gonna be an apparel, but then I was like, wait, I can still do apparel and I can tie in, uh, shoes to it and it can still be in the same lane of health and wellness and serving people in a profound way.
And I was all in.
Riley: That's so cool, man. I, I think it's fun for, um, people, if you've never experienced a sh you used the term in your, I saw on your website and stuff, you're, you're really harping that wide toe box. And I mentioned it in.
the intro, right? Um, when you get to his toes, being able to move, man, it's a different thing. uh, and then man,
David Schlachter: Totally.
Riley: having that zero drop soul too is just something when you can, when you can feel the ground and you're not kind of tippy toed and you don't have that big pad there, you walk [00:04:00] different, you really do. And I, It's, hard to, hard to help people understand. Um.
David Schlachter: It's, dude, it's kind of like the, like, uh, it is like this micro level change, but it does just open up the world. It's like going to Carlos Machado's class and learning kind of Machado method. All of a sudden you're on the mats and he does this like super micro level adjustment where he just shakes a little and it changes the entire role.
Like it, it's. It's kind of like similar to his technique, I'd almost create that sort of analogy, but yeah, it is, it's crazy, man.
Riley: Yeah. In your, um, I'm curious, so you said you've, you've been in the shoe business all, or you growing up, your family's been in the shoe business, you said 20 plus years.
David Schlachter: Yep. So I mean, I was, I'm 26 years old and I mean, growing up I wasn't like really working, but I was around it and my dad would always give [00:05:00] me looks and exposure. There was nothing really that was closed off. He wanted me to be involved in his world. And, um, yeah, it, uh, I learned, I learned a lot through that.
And then it just branched off and, uh. Me wanting to do my own brand. He was working with the brands and helping them out in a lot of ways. And then I just was like, I wanna kind of, I, I love what my dad's created, but I wanna, and I wanna honor it, but I wanna kind of create my own path as well.
Riley: So when you're, um, was he, was he actually manufacturing shoes or was he selling other brands as a his
David Schlachter: He was selling other brands there, there was an interest in, um, in starting like his own brand and their own brand, but it was, it, it took, uh, I, I think they had like, uh, some hurdles with it. It was, it was not as they, they had [00:06:00] their core business and then they wanted to experiment with this, but it was like a lot to go into and they were just like, we'll, we will revisit it.
And they kept pushing it kind of down the road. But, uh, I, I was all in, I've always been obsessed with story. I've always been into kind of like. Street wear culture or like even just pop culture and seeing kind of what's going on in the world through the lens of like, whatever it is, Hollywood or sport or, I, I, there was something that was exciting to me about that and uh, I wanted to go in and create my own brand off of that.
Riley: Did you ever get involved in like the, the Nike craze where they, they're collecting these certain versions of the, know, air Jordan this and flight that or, you know, I, I see it at a distance, but I've, I've never been in it, so I don't know. Is that.
something you, you've been part of?
David Schlachter: Oh yeah. [00:07:00] I, I do, I like, I dived in full force kind of when I was like 15. I think my cousins were really big into it and I could never actually understand it. Like, it was like a different language to me, like I was. I, I don't know what you guys are talking about. These shoes are, they're like, this is the best shoe ever.
This is the Jordan six. This is the one he wore when he did this. This is the Jordan three where he dunked from the free throw line in the dunk contest. And I was like, dude, this is just an ugly shoe. And then they tell me the price and I'm like,
Riley: Yeah,
David Schlachter: just explosion. And, um, but then I started to dive into the actual history and like the stories of the shoes and it made them so much cooler
Riley: yeah. and
David Schlachter: and
Riley: You kind of get into the story part of things, right?
David Schlachter: yeah, definitely,
Riley: Oh man.
David Schlachter: definitely. And, uh, yeah, I, I wanted to kind of create my own stories with it, but I [00:08:00] also started to like veer off path from street wear culture, like kind of like these expensive shoes that were releasing every weekend and. I also just saw a new functionality, right? Like these are narrow toe boxes, so the story can be great, but if it's not serving your body and your biology and honoring that, I didn't want anything to do with it.
Riley: you, the practical side of you
David Schlachter: I
Riley: huh?
David Schlachter: pretty much, yeah.
Riley: It's a funny thing, man. 'cause you can go from a, know, traditional narrow toebox shoe to a wide one and, and it feels great, but man, if you go back, crap, I can't even breathe right? When I get in a, a regular pair of shoes. I went to buy a pair of dress shoes last year.
So I was, uh, salt electrolytes. My electrolyte company sponsored the PGF, the grappling, you know, the there in
David Schlachter: Yeah,
Riley: And,
David Schlachter: the big one. Yeah.
Riley: is they want you, if you're there as part of the crowd, they [00:09:00] want you dressed up. And so I was like, man, I don't even own a pair of dress shoes. I don't only own my barefoot shoes, right?
So I, uh, I bought some, just, I went to buy some dress shoes and it was like, this freaking took me forever to find something that I could even, I had to buy like a double E or some crap, really wide
David Schlachter: Mm-hmm.
Riley: and it wasn't designed for
David Schlachter: Mm-hmm.
Riley: like three sizes too big. 'cause I, I just couldn't breathe, man.
I put 'em on, I'm like, I can't move. Right? I feel terrible in these things and I wanna honor them and, you know, wear a pair of dress shoes in there, but oh, it was the worst. It was the worst.
David Schlachter: I, I, I get that entirely. I'm like, yeah, it's, it's like almost impossible for me to go back to. I'm, I'm okay with trying out a shoe with some drop and, uh, playing around with drop, you know, weight lifting. Sometimes they say it's better to have a little bit of drop and be on that incline to relieve some pressure if you're lifting super heavy weights on the knees.
But the one part, [00:10:00] part, like, and the one piece that we're gonna be super dogmatic about as a brand is that why tow box. You know, there's not, there's nothing that can justify, uh, not being able to splay your toes if your toes are meant to be able to splay.
Riley: Yeah, man. So, so tell me this, when you're, um, determining how wide to go, right. Um, what, how did that process look? I mean, what, 'cause I've, I've, I've tried other brands. Like I, uh, there's a, there's a brand that in the UK that's a fairly popular brand, and I bought a pair of those and they're fairly expensive. And dude,
David Schlachter: Mm-hmm.
Riley: they said wide toe box. But I got that shoe and I'm like, it's not wide enough. It's, know,
David Schlachter: Yeah.
Riley: still too narrow for
David Schlachter: Yeah. Yeah. It's, it's a tough thing to, um, it's a tough thing to spearhead because in that process, when you're creating that last, you definitely want it to be wide enough based off kind of [00:11:00] what I just said. Like you want to be able to splay your toes, but. You also don't want it to be, you know, a clown shoe to where you're, you've got platypus feet and you're just like, this is way too wide.
I'm clocking around in these things. But, uh, we went through a few iterations in the sampling process to where we had platypus feet, like we were swimming in these shoes, man. And also we went through, you kind of go through like two different extremes before you find your, your right like fit, you kind of have to bump into the walls and be squished.
And then you also kinda have to live in this vast shoe before you find the, oh, this is right.
Riley: Funny man. 'cause you, yeah, you just have a shoe. You just cut the end off and let your toes wiggle. Yeah.
David Schlachter: Exactly.
Riley: I love it. No, I was curious about that. 'cause you're, [00:12:00] you know, so you growing up in this family that's selling other brands of shoes, right? And then you, you decide to create your own shoe and split off on your own brand. What, from a family dynamic standpoint, what did that look like?
David Schlachter: So really like I I, when I moved out to Dallas, I left apparel industry management at a school in LA and that's where I was learning pattern making, really the apparel shoe, the design process and merchandising process and pandemic hits, everything goes off campus. They won't let you near the school. And I'm just like, what am I paying for?
Like, this is, I'm not getting the education. They're showing me how to cut and do this stuff on Zoom where I can't get my hands on experience. I'm better off just going to the [00:13:00] family business and getting immersed around brands through that. So I, I go out there and about four years into it, well actually two years into it, I start prototyping with my brother who's in Australia at the time and I'm designing, kind of drawing out the silhouette and what it's gonna look like, working on like a template of tech pack.
And, uh, we just nailed something that we loved and it just was like, we're doing this, we gotta do this. And as I'm working at the company still, I'm not taking away time from it because I'm still able to allocate time. I'm my brother, I'm talking to him late nights. So like I get off work at like five. And then I'm going directly to a phone call with my brother [00:14:00] and we're just getting amped and hyped about this thing.
And if we weren't doing that, it was a, it was a call with a Chinese manufacturer who was helping us with the prototypes. And so we were, I was kind of dedicating work away from what I was doing at the shoe business at the time, and I was able to juggle both. But as we were ramping up and we got towards production, there became an inflection point to where it was like my, my cousin who's like the president, CEO of the company too, he was kind of like, you just have to let me know where you're at.
Are you, are you all in on this thing? 'cause your next stage of learning the shoe business is going to require, like in a level of intensity.
Riley: So he was
David Schlachter: And I kind of had to,
Riley: in that and kind of knew what was coming for you and was, was kind of giving you a heads up almost. Huh?
David Schlachter: for sure, like my, my dad and then his. Uh, his brother, which is my cousin's dad, they, they [00:15:00] spearheaded the whole venture and created the business called S Shoebacca. So they, they kind of built it from the ground up and Ryan kind of, I don't know what year he kind of took over, but he really found his place in it and absolutely crush and, uh, found a rhythm and building that thing up even more.
And so he went through exactly what I went through and he was early on telling me, you know, uh, if you're expecting a sprint, this is not that, this is a marathon, so make sure you're doing things gradually. Don't go too fast. Uh, but um, yeah, at that point he was real with me and he said, are you a hundred percent committed to this or are you gonna be on and off between Abstract Chimp and Sach?
And I said, I, uh, give me a week. Let me think about it. And. Yeah, I just, my heart was all in on Abstract Chimp and I said, this is the right time to [00:16:00] jump off and give this thing my all.
Riley: You guys, um, were you selling anything yet at that point?
David Schlachter: No. So this was actually like right before we received shoes. This is kind of like crazy, but um, yeah, this is like right before we received them. And so it was just my brother and me. So like, and they've got an operating warehouse and everything there, but, and that's kind of the what gave us the boat of confidence also to go into the shoe business.
But at the same time, they're not like this, we're gonna do everything for you and you guys can go off to la la land or wherever you want. It was like, no, you need to be there, receive your shoes, we'll help you along the way and kind of tell you what.
Riley: Hmm.
David Schlachter: Things are probably smarter and what things are not smart to do.
But, um, we got in there and my brother [00:17:00] and me found our way. He was in, uh, San Diego. We received some shoes and then we sent some out to Dallas and we started warehousing 'em there.
Riley: That's, uh, that's interesting. You know, because that's a, that's something a lot of people experience when they go into business, especially when they're, they're making it right. And they, they have to, there's that, that place where you have to cross that chasm, right, of I need to devote full time to it, but there's no income coming in yet. And so, you know, how do you cross that bridge? And, you know, you said, so you're kind of sharing warehouse space. Is that that what you're saying?
David Schlachter: Yeah. Um, I mean we're, we're very small compared to what they do and, uh, we just got a, a small space in there and we're starting to scale up from there. And, um. Yeah, I think the ultimate thing would be somewhat, uh, in the future, maybe tie in with them, but I don't know. We're, we're just figuring it out and we're being [00:18:00] scrappy, lean startup mode founders right now.
So
Riley: well, So talk about that some
David Schlachter: I,
Riley: Like, if you're giving advice to somebody, um, you've been at this, how long, and again, tell me
David Schlachter: um, the Abha Chimp is about
Riley: Um.
David Schlachter: th th uh, uh, about like a year in,
Riley: Okay. So yeah.
so talk about that and maybe give some advice to, to, uh, startup businesses. You know, that you, you said lean, you're running lean, right? And you're scrappy
David Schlachter: Yeah.
Riley: out there kind of, you're doing what it takes. But you've, you've started with renting a portion of the warehouse, a small, small step to, to again, cross this big gap.
Right. You're, um, I talked to a
David Schlachter: Mm-hmm.
Riley: and he started a brand new company and he said they immediately bought a location. It was $4,400 a month for this, you know, location they purchased that they really didn't need. It was way bigger than they, than they
David Schlachter: Yeah.
Riley: [00:19:00] but man, that was stressful for him, man, that that poor guy struggled for years trying to get business up to a level that could actually even pay for the spot where he wasn't paying out of pocket.
So, Yeah. give us some advice, man. Talk, talk about that. I,
David Schlachter: Yeah. That's, that's an expensive space. It's like, I think at the beginning of every venture, it's so damn exciting that you really, and you've already architected in your mind what this thing could be. You've modeled it,
Riley: yeah.
David Schlachter: and you're like, well, we, we can afford it. Not right now, but we can afford it in the future.
And you kind of give yourself excuses to pay for all sorts of things. But those things start adding up. And they start like. Coming at you real quick, and you've gotta be able to, you've gotta be able to stay afloat and stay disciplined enough to where they don't mess with your revenue and you're still being profitable and staying afloat.
'cause if you're not [00:20:00] staying afloat, you're not gonna be doing that very long. Like, if you're not able to support yourself, it's, it's just not gonna work out. Um, I, I think, yeah, like you said, it's like, don't go, don't bite off more than you can chew in the beginning, no matter how excited, excited you are, kind of ground yourself and, uh, yeah, it's a marathon, not a, not a sprint by any means.
Riley: That's well said, man. I, you know, you, you mentioned in there that you, um, you kind of plan things out and you have this, you have this, you've kind of proof of concepted whole thing in your head, and on paper it looks great and it's like, oh, we should be able to do this. But when you did that, what did, what did the first six months of sales look like in comparison to what you knew you could potentially do?
David Schlachter: Um, it was interesting, I think the beginning of our business, like [00:21:00] we actually had like this big push. Like we, we were, we went really into somewhere fast. We had some events off of the rip that put us in front of people and getting in front of people was, has always been our bread and butter. Like, if people can see, feel trial in these shoes, like we talked about earlier, you feel that difference instantly.
You're on board. Uh, but once those events started to slow down, they started to become like this reality of like, okay, now we actually have to learn how to market. Aside from being in front of people, we can't really afford a brick and mortar store. We don't know if that's the right route. And there's just this reality of like.
It's, it's time to actually push some weight at this point. Like now it's, now we're actually getting in it.
Riley: Oh dude. Oh, that's beautiful how you put that. 'cause it's, uh, there are, like, those events are cool, but you can only afford to do a certain amount of those until you get a
David Schlachter: Mm-hmm.
Riley: of your sales upright. So yeah, we, we [00:22:00] experienced that same thing where it was like all these cool events, getting in front of people, meeting all these different connections, but then we start to realize that no, there's some other stuff that has to happen behind the scenes where we've gotta be out there pushing our product, direct sales and, and, you know, doing the hard stuff, the cold calling and that, that kind of thing.
And 'cause you, you just can't do an event every weekend. Right.
[00:23:00]
David Schlachter: Mm-hmm. For sure. It's a little bit more of a hustle at that point.
Riley: Yeah. And I think that's the thing that a lot of times people don't plan for and they're not prepared for, and then it hits 'em in the face just like, holy crap, I gotta get out there and do some really difficult things. You, you use the phrase pushing some weight, you know, now it's time to get down to that nitty
David Schlachter: Roll up the sleeves.
Riley: Yeah. Um, what does that look like? What are you guys doing, doing now? What's your, what's your push?
David Schlachter: So right now I'm deep in kind of like another r and d prototyping rollout and uh, I'm still running around. I'm talking with Carlos about some stuff and we're, I'm, I want to get more into the BJJ community [00:24:00] and um, 'cause I think combat sports and like martial artists get it right away too. I mean, most of the, most of the time they're pretty much any martial arts people are barefoot in wrestling, boxing.
You have some pigeon toe shoes. It'd be cool to make a push into there at some point maybe as well. But, um, they understand for the most part what you're getting into. My brother's been kind of pushing on some organic marketing. He's running around in a chimp suit, creating some disruptive marketing, something where people are just like, what, what is this?
What, what is, why are you wearing a chimp suit? And so he's, he's out there, he's living kind of like a nomadic lifestyle right now. He's in a sprinter van. He's gonna get some shoes here soon. And he's gonna be just, he's a climber and he loves being on the go. I mean, when we started this thing, he was in [00:25:00] Australia and he just kind of went off a whim.
He's always been this way. Like he's a bit of an abstract chimp, if you will. Like he is ear early on in like school. I think he studied abroad, um, New Zealand, and then he picked Taiwan after that. And then he went to Australia. He just. He went to Portugal, he's a surfer climber, outdoors man. He just goes, man.
Riley: that's pretty fun, man. I think all of us kinda have a little bit of that, like, desire to do that. Gosh,
David Schlachter: Yeah,
Riley: Maybe one day. Um,
David Schlachter: for sure.
Riley: the name Abstract Chimp. What, what in the world, where did that come from?
David Schlachter: So again, in like the process of building a brand, you've gotta figure out a name. This is another part of it. And we wanted something that stuck out. And similar to Chimp Suit made people say, why is your name [00:26:00] abstraction? What it, and it was really a, a play on evolution. So if anything, the brand more than a shoe brand is like an observation on evolution.
And it's like our, where, where did we come from? Where are we going? And that's how we kind of build. The ultimate product, similar to the deal of like creating a shoe. It might be big at first. It might be too tight at first. And then once you get two of those options, you can build the perfect option, but you can't do it with only one.
And, and so abstract. Uh, can you hear me all right?
Riley: you okay. Yeah, you're doing fine. I hear
David Schlachter: There's a, a plane flying over. Yeah. I'm in San Diego. We got the, the Navy here in like military, so sometimes you just have stuff hovering above.
Riley: doing fine, man.
David Schlachter: Uh, cool. So in [00:27:00] the name Abstract Chimp abstract kind of showcases, uh, the future and Chimp showcases the past.
Kind of our first principles. We came from monkeys or we, we, we share 98% of DNA of monkeys, 98 or 99. I don't even know. Of chimpanzees and if, if Darwin's evolutionary theory is right, that suggests that a chimp evolved as human, that chimp had to be doing some profoundly different stuff than the rest of the troop.
It couldn't have been doing the same dynamics because we're, we're just not, we don't live in the same way as chimps. We do a lot of similar things, but we live in two different societies and there's two different species.
Riley: Yeah. It's, it's an interesting thing, man. [00:28:00] 'cause you're, um, when you're talking about, you know, designing this product around what a human foot looks like, right. it's, it's odd to me in hindsight now, after wearing these types of shoes for this long, it's odd to me that she was ever became pointy and skinny.
You know, it's, it's what
David Schlachter: Yeah.
Riley: to make that the norm. You know, it's, it, it does, it does puzzle me a bit. I, I, it is fascinating.
David Schlachter: Yeah, dude, that's, that's, that's kind of in the brand too. It's like, are we evolving the right way? And I hope the brand can serve to not just be, uh, you know, us pushing shoes that we feel are serving as a difference, but it can create, it can create this butterfly effect of other creators going like, you know, I mean, you've got the salt brand.
Are we hydrating correctly? So much of like, our hydration just [00:29:00] comes from, you know, dead water. Like there's no minerals in it. Even when we try to do things right, we strip the water of all of its minerals. There's, you're, you're dehydrating yourself
Riley: gonna
David Schlachter: when you're taking water. If you don't add salt. Yeah,
Riley: Oh my gosh, man.
David Schlachter: so I don't know, I, and hopefully like a hundred, so many different other areas we can kind of question.
It just allows for space to question things or status quo.
Riley: no, it's super cool. I, um, can't wait. I wanna, I wanna pick a pair of your shoes up and give 'em a shot, man. 'cause I, I, uh, I know you've got, at this point, you've got one, uh, model, correct?
David Schlachter: Yep. Just one style of the fission 0.01
Riley: I
David Schlachter: and then three colorways.
Riley: I noticed when I look at these, okay. Is. The brands I've used in the past have an obviously very, um, they, they just look like a barefoot shoe. people will notice them 'cause they, they do clown shoes is [00:30:00] part of it. The way, the kind of toes, you know, the shaped, but then it's the, the sole on the side of the sole.
Usually it's really thin. And yours have, kind of, they, they almost, uh, look like a normal shoe in the sole because it goes up higher around the shoe, but your foot sit lower down in it. Right. Um, and I,
David Schlachter: Exactly.
Riley: a design thing and I, I, I'd like you to speak to that maybe a little bit about what, um, what your thoughts were there.
'cause it's, you know.
David Schlachter: That's, that's sharp, dude, that's like a pinpoint observation because that's literally, that was kind of what I wanted to go and knew when I designed the shoe. I wanted it to not be so disruptive. To where like, I think some barefoot shoes are just so disruptive and not very attractive. They may be super functional, but they're missing kind of the style points.
Um, [00:31:00] with ours, I wanted to nail style and I wanted to nail functionality. And to do that, I knew I was gonna, it was gonna have to be different from status quo. 'cause I don't want these narrow pigeon toed toe boxes. But I knew that I needed to create something that was kind of a seamless transition. Like it wasn't gonna be a big deal for someone to go from a pair of vans converse, something super iconic like the Chuck Taylor, whatever, whatever it was, or even a pair of Nikes, like, it wasn't so disruptive to where they would be like, this is way far off man.
Riley: No, and that's, that, that's that missing link. You, you go, that the evolution theme you're talking about, that's that missing link is like, how do we almost wean them off of a, that normal shoe into more of the barefoot style? Well, yeah, if you have ones with freaking five toes sticking out there, you look like a dork when you're running around.
And see, you have to overcome that too. You know, everybody's wanting to tease you about your shoes and, um, [00:32:00] yeah,
David Schlachter: It.
Riley: that's a real hurdle. You're not, you're not kidding.
David Schlachter: Yeah,
Riley: Um, I.
David Schlachter: for sure. I, and it's funny 'cause even though like, uh, I'll go at like the Five Fingers, I've got some friends and people who've like starred some five finger brands and functionally they're sound shoes. Like they're incredible shoes. It's just, for me, it's tough to, uh, and I don't care really. Like, I'll go wear them to the gym, like I would do it.
But like, I think, uh, for me I just, I like that, that style of kind of like, uh, a traditional shoe somewhat. And I just wanted to evolve it a little bit
Riley: I think you've done a good job
David Schlachter: and.
Riley: man. It's an
David Schlachter: Gr.
Riley: shoe. It looks good. It, it doesn't, it doesn't really, it's like you can see signs of it. I mean, the, the wide toe box definitely has a, a look to it, but
David Schlachter: Mm-hmm.
Riley: it's, it's one where you could do it without too many questions. And so yeah, attracting the, like switching someone over from a normal shoe, that'd be a fairly [00:33:00] easy jump, but not,
David Schlachter: Mm-hmm.
Riley: Yeah. talk about this
David Schlachter: Thank you, man. Thank you.
Riley: Talk about the transition. 'cause I remember this, and I'll give you a why I asked this question. The transition from a, a thick sole, you.
know, high heel type, squishy shoe a barefoot shoe. Um, and honestly, I don't know this about yours. Does it have a pretty thin sole?
David Schlachter: Yeah. So we're, we're real thin. Uh, we can, and we've got two kind of options too. We've got an insole, but you can pop that sucker right out of the shoe and. Just right. If you like that super minimal ground feel, you can just wear it right along the Strobel,
Riley: So, so back to my question then. Um, when people make the transition, right, there's a, when your shoe has been arch supported with a squishy sole and squished up toes your whole life and you transition to this other [00:34:00] shoe, man, I experienced sore feet for a little while. Like, it took me a while to get the, the muscles in my feet, in the, even the ligaments in, in all those little foot bones, strong enough to wear when I would run with these shoes that I wouldn't have some pain right now.
I was willing to push through that because I, I had read up enough on it, uh, that Born to Run book we talked about off air. Um,
David Schlachter: know?
Riley: knew, I just knew, I knew it was gonna be a problem, but I
David Schlachter: Mm-hmm.
Riley: it. You know, I went out, um, I was distance running at the time you know, first run did a mile and with of minimalist shoe and was pretty dang sore.
Uh, can you talk about that transition? How long does it take and what does it look like for, uh, somebody
David Schlachter: Sure.
Riley: to transition shoes?
David Schlachter: Yeah. So I mean, that is definitely like the consensus, right? If you have been wearing these traditional, uh, [00:35:00] shoes for the past 20 years or whatever it is, some, some of us longer than that, your, your feet are gonna be a little bit atrophied. You're gonna, your feet are gonna be a little bit outta shape.
Like, uh, you're, you haven't been going to the gym for a little while. If you've been wearing those ultra cushiony shoes, narrow toe boxes, it probably is gonna be best to slowly transition into barefoot shoes, what that looks like. I can't say there's this one uniform for everyone. I think for me it was about a year until I fully transitioned to just barefoot shoes.
And I think I did some of the wrong things along the way. Again, there's like the balance game. You go too far, you know, for you, like you run a mile the first day or you run three miles [00:36:00] later and your foot's not adapted to that, you're probably better just walking. And then there's also, you go too soft.
You don't wear 'em enough, your feet are
Riley: never
David Schlachter: still atrophying. You need to be right in the middle. It's where I find myself always needing to be. And uh, yeah, you gotta respect your body's limits. Your body is the ultimate technology and it's going to give you signals if you listen deep deeply enough to it to where this isn't intuitive, this isn't the right direction, or.
You're just being too lazy and sometimes you have to keep yourself in check. It's right in the middle. I find where we need to find ourselves, but I don't know, it's, you can speak to it as well, like the transitionary period is something you need to adapt to. If it's going to walk your dog one time a day, if it's going to the, just throw your barefoot shoes on once a day and go to the gym.
If it's to go to [00:37:00] work in them because you're not running at work or you're not doing something so active. And then if you're a runner, you know, gradually go from that cushion. You don't have to take them and throw 'em away right at once. Just slowly work into em.
Riley: no, I experienced that same thing, man. I, I, I did this, um, I told you, you know, first run was a mile and, and I really regretted it. I was like, gosh, man, they, I had heard from people that said, you know, quarter mile max. And I was like, ah, I, I ran a quarter mile. I felt great still. I was like, oh, this is good man.
I'm gonna keep going. And I kind of ran until I stopped feeling great. Uh. That was too much, dude. I, you know, and it's, it's weird 'cause the arch of my foot got so sore and then it took me
David Schlachter: Yeah,
Riley: weeks to recover from that. And then I, you know, you start to really second guess whether this is a good idea or not. but there was a point
David Schlachter: for sure.
Riley: I had gotten up to about three miles and I had a, I had an actual 10 K race, um, scheduled, right? [00:38:00] And so I'm going, well, I'm at three miles. I should be able to do four and a half in my training runs.
David Schlachter: Mm-hmm.
Riley: about a month before my event, right. just jump from three to four and a half.
And I did that dude, and I broke something on my foot actual. Um, and so then, then I'm like, know, six, eight weeks of healing up. And I, I missed my event, couldn't even do it. My wife took my spot, took my race number, and she went and, and ran the event. And it was kind of
David Schlachter: Crush.
Riley: and, uh, but it affected my, everything affected, you know?
'cause now I got something in my foot that I'm pretty sure was a broken bone, you know? And it took a little while to do that. But I was, man, I thought, because I was, you know, four months into this thing that I was okay. just, I just
David Schlachter: Mm-hmm.
Riley: fast. And had I went, you know,
David Schlachter: Yeah.
Riley: three and a half instead of four and a half, I could have probably been been okay. Yeah.
Take your time. I guess is the, is the. Especially as a runner, right? I think walking, you can get away with a lot more, but um, [00:39:00] as a runner, take your time. And it's worth, it's worth the transition because what I then noticed later was man, hip flexors, knees, shin splints were completely gone. I, I, I was
David Schlachter: Mm-hmm.
Riley: splints prior to that I never
David Schlachter: Mm-hmm.
Riley: They just, that was actually an instantaneous thing. Uh, Ben
David Schlachter: Yeah.
Riley: I learned. But Yeah.
man, my hips and knees wouldn't be sore after runs. I'm just like, everything else is great, but till's feet
David Schlachter: Yeah.
Riley: so weak.
David Schlachter: It's. Dude, the body's amazing. You let it do its thing. It's like it'll, it'll take care of you and then you'll get more in touch with it too. It's like how people, I dunno. There's, there's just like this deeper relationship with like the, the way things are. Like, I think we could all obtain, and it helps on so many cylinders.
Like a, a weak in nature away from like, a lot of like, action can really help the mind. Um, [00:40:00] if you just like do, do yoga or you don't do like crazy weights sometimes it's like you get a better feel for this what you're, what you're living in day to day.
Riley: Yeah, for real. Yeah. I'm a big proponent of go, just be bored for a little while. We don't get bored ever, you know, current day, you know,
David Schlachter: So true.
Riley: I think of, I think of road
David Schlachter: That's, that's key.
Riley: Say that again?
David Schlachter: I just, I was saying that's like, that's key's. We're moving so far away from that right now.
Riley: Yeah. I think, uh, you know, I took a road trip down to see Carlos for the, um, be on his podcast here last, last year, April, may, something like that. And was on that road trip, man, that, I was just bored. I wasn't listening to music, I wasn't doing anything. I was just driving and watching those lines go by on the road for a miles, you know, and I, I remember just the creative juices start flowing when you get bored. [00:41:00] And
David Schlachter: Mm-hmm.
Riley: I, I guess that's a question I had for you. As you've built this business and start to run through it and you're, you know, you're thinking through your designs and things, what, what did you do to gain the inspiration? Like, how do you set time aside? What do you, what's, what's your method?
David Schlachter: I think, yeah, there's like, it's really important in creative work to have buffers and. What those look like to me in my process, it's always just been, it needs to be like spontaneous and super intuitive, like,
but also scheduling them somewhat to where it's not super spontaneous. It's like you need those to like stay in the game and stay creating and stay in that creative framework. Like sometimes going all in on something and never shifting from that doesn't allow the mind space to actually think about what's going on.
[00:42:00] Like, I don't know how it is for you in Jiujitsu, but like in Jiujitsu, like you've, you've been at for like a long time. I've heard from some upper belts and people telling me about this, like, sometimes you just need to get away from the mats for a little Go rock climb, go do a yoga class, go do something different, and you're.
Whether it's your con, I don't think it's your conscious, your subconscious will start to work out that problem. Like it's pretty extraordinary. But that's how it is with my creative work as well. Like really everything. Like if you're struggling in some spot, sometimes the best bet isn't to run through a wall, but it's to take five steps backwards and find a new route.
Riley: That's,
so what you just said, man, is I found that to be true in Juujitsu. I found it to be true in business. I found it to be true in running, um, you know, mountain bike, all those kind of things. Like, I'll be doing a different activity and solve a juujitsu problem. Like, man, some dude's been passing my guard, I [00:43:00] just can't, he's freaking he's done it 15 times and I'm, I can't quite figure out a solution for it. And then I'll be out fishing, reeling a bass and all of a sudden it just clicks like, oh, I could just move this way. And,
David Schlachter: That's,
Riley: you know, totally unrelated. Right? But I think that
David Schlachter: yeah.
Riley: disengagement does help.
David Schlachter: Yeah, for sure.
Riley: It's good.
David Schlachter: Like even, even sleep. It's like that's why sleep's so important. It's just like allowing your conscious to just shut down, like chill for a sec.
Riley: Yeah. The overstimulation man is not always good. Right? It's sometimes it's, yeah. You're not even, you mentioned you don't even have space for it. It's like, I, I can't, I can't think clear 'cause I have too much other crap coming in, and Yeah. Creative solutions die when, when that's going on. Um,
David Schlachter: Mm-hmm.
Riley: dude, you're dropping some bombs here.
I love it. love it. Um,
David Schlachter: Epic dude.
Riley: do you find as you're, [00:44:00] as you've gone through this process, man, and you. We, we kind of alluded to it a little bit, but what is the, what is the design pro? What does it look like? Man, I don't even know anything about the shoe business. So when you're coming up with like a template, the shape to make the shoe, what do you do there?
I mean, what's the, you just draw a pretty picture of it and it's like, I think I'm gonna build that, or what?
David Schlachter: That's pretty much it, man. That's it. It's, so that's probably like the final thing you do, but I think, um, a lot of it is just being inspired by like, things around you subconsciously, consciously just, you know, whether it's nature, whether it's people and conversations. Uh, it's all just observation based.
And I think with my design process, yeah, I just, I like taking the things I love best from like [00:45:00] what I can see and trying to create kind of this mishmosh
Riley: Yeah,
David Schlachter: and put it into one thing. And I don't, it's like. I don't know. That's kind of like my way of creating something new. I really want to create something new when I set out to create something.
I think it's very hard to do that. Like there's, I feel like a lot of people always say this, like, there aren't any new ideas. We're just kind of reiterating old, old things. And I think that's somewhat true,
Riley: Yeah.
David Schlachter: but, uh, yeah. I think my best way is combination, combination things, and don't just do it with shape.
Don't just do it with, uh, style, but do it with color. Do it with, give it everything you got. I don't know. It's like, I don't know if I can really say the process and like, it's just very [00:46:00] natural to me
Riley: Did
David Schlachter: and I.
Riley: because you of this whole decision, Mike, like, 'cause you're, I was talking to my son the other day and, and he was building, uh, just this box for the back of, he's got a Toyota four runner. Right. And he, he wanted, he likes to camp in it, and he built this box that he has some drawers in.
They can store stuff in the back. And it was fun. You know, he's 18 years old and it's kind of his first project like that. And he was building it. And he called me out in the backyard and had me come look at some stuff he was struggling with. And, you know, we were looking at this and I said, I said, man, do you realize like that thing existed only in your head a few hours ago and now it's a physical item sitting here. And I.
think he,
David Schlachter: It is a thing.
Riley: like, crap, dude. I didn't think of that. You know, like, I, I guess that's true. It was an idea and now he built it. Now it's a thing. you know, you're dealing with that in the shoe world where. You had an idea, you've talked to some people, but then there were some decisions that had to, to [00:47:00] happen to build this physical
David Schlachter: Mm-hmm.
Riley: and, and one of those decisions, I think, you know, all I know is what materials do you use, man?
How, how did that, how did you out what you wanted to use?
[00:48:00]
David Schlachter: Yeah, I, so when we, uh, when I started to like dive into design, I, it was very important to me, like to be as sustainable as we could be while being still reasonable. Like, um, again, bouncing off two walls to find where you're not gonna be bouncing off and you're just right. Like, for me it was, uh, in the beginning of this thing, dude, I was searching to source the most crazy material, the coolest thing we could do.
And man, I was trying to make it. Alien technology type shoe. Like I, this thing was gonna be made out of mycelium,
Riley: Okay.
David Schlachter: out of mushrooms, like, and we were working with like, uh, this, um, this spot in Germany that specialized in mycelium leather and we were gonna source it from Germany. And [00:49:00] as we started doing this, we just run into like, you know, we talked about it, I think a little bit before we hopped on the call.
You run into like the equation of MOQs
Riley: that stands
David Schlachter: minimum order quantities. Like
Riley: MOQ is minimum order quantity, right? To have something manufactured
David Schlachter: Up
Riley: that manufacturer, in order to get that machine dirty, has to charge, you know, it has to have a certain amount of volume. And that's what you're talking about. So there's the background there. There's keep
David Schlachter: perfect. Yeah. And so with that, like the, the amount we were gonna have to order, it turned in from like startup to big boy business. You've gotta, it was like a reality check. Like you can work with some clean materials and you can work with this, but you've gotta be a, a serious player to be using this.
Riley: so tell
David Schlachter: And, um,
Riley: does serious player money mean? It's, it's
David Schlachter: it was just, it, it, it just like 10 x the cost [00:50:00] of a product. Like with that one split, like you said, that idea, oh, and then you, you take the idea from like, oh, that's a beautiful idea to, oh, this is a real number and this is a real product, but this number is going to contradict this being like a feasible thing.
Riley: Yeah. Yeah. That number
David Schlachter: And so,
Riley: the idea instantly. Right.
David Schlachter: yeah. So we ended up going there and then, you know, you can work with all sorts of like, other materials that can make the shoe, uh. I don't know. It can make it less expensive, but it could take away from the quality and the way it looks. And we kinda wanted to be somewhere in the middle of just right. And we went for anything.
We used synthetically. It was recycled, uh, where it was like a natural rubber. And then, um, the upper shear shoe is just [00:51:00] organic, uh, cotton canvas. It's this real, real kind of like, it feels almost like a Carhartt jacket. It feels kinda like a tough, like work wear. Um, and yeah, I just wanted to replicate something again, like something close to that.
I'm a SoCal guy. Like I'm, I'm from, uh, San Diego and I love that Van's lifestyle. Look, I like Chuck Taylor's. Uh, and we wanted to create something close to that, but also. How can we maybe refine it and make it, give us a little bit more of edge. It's not so thin, like a Van's authentic or a, uh, Chuck Taylor, and it's a little bit more durable, a little bit more, uh, heavy.
And then we went with, uh, calf calf leather on the, the collar and on uh, the pull tab.
Riley: Oh, that's awesome, man. That's awesome. So what's, uh, what's coming up [00:52:00] in the future? So you got, you guys said you got some other designs coming. Are you, are you looking like a different kind of shoe segment, different style, or are you, look, what's, what's the I,
David Schlachter: Yeah. So this one, this first one was really our generalist model, and it's kinda this like lifestyle every day, everything go to the gym, whatever you wanna do. I mean, don't run a marathon and everything, but like supposed to hit most, most, uh, wear types and, uh. The point of that was we can, we can jump really anywhere, any direction we see as fit.
And I think the future, I don't know, I wanna step into some athletic models. I've got a few prototypes right now I'm working on that are, uh, an athletic model, um, that we're excited about. And it's kind of again, uh, carrying that transitionary philosophy from uh, [00:53:00] not so disruptive to what people are wearing every day.
But we're also gonna take some risks on this one. I'm kind of thinking in my head, I'm gonna sample and I'm gonna play with some cool materials and mess around. No mycelium leather, but something cool
Riley: Maybe in the future. I,
David Schlachter: future.
Riley: funny, man. 'cause I, you know, we talked about minimum order quantities earlier and, you know, I think your, your customers probably do the same thing as mine do, where they'll go, when are you gonna bring out a new flavor? And they, they don't realize
David Schlachter: Mm-hmm.
Riley: flavor is a $20,000 bill. You know, it's, it's not
David Schlachter: Yeah.
Riley: you know, it's just, I'm just gonna. Put it in the box. This doesn't exist now. We have to have it exist and there's minimal mortar quantities and, you know, all these things come about. And so, uh, you know, you've got one model of shoe now, but then in three different colors. How does it work in your business where it's not just three different colors, but it's also how many different sizes? [00:54:00] And
David Schlachter: Yeah.
Riley: go into the minimum order quantity or is there a minimum order of each size and each color, because now all of a sudden you got like
David Schlachter: There's,
Riley: combinations out the wazoo.
David Schlachter: there's, there's a lot of costs that go into, like shoe making and I think, yeah. Sizes play a part. Colors play a part, materials. Um, it's, uh, if, if you're, if you're setting sale in the shoe industry or shoe business, and this is what like my dad, his brothers on the shoe business for telling us before, but we're kind of like, you know, you, we've got that same vision.
Like you, you've modeled the numbers. You go, we can do this. You don't know what it takes to do this, but you're just like, we can do this. And I think that's probably best to have that almost naive naivety before you step into the arena, because you'll do something wild. You'll do [00:55:00] something that could change status quo footwear.
Um, yeah, I think it's, it's just become like a, it, it becomes like a, a different deal when you, uh, jump in the water a little.
Riley: That, that value of being a little naive, right. I think with every business I've ever owned and grown has had that if I, if I knew going into it what it was really gonna take, I probably wouldn't have done it. Right. And I,
David Schlachter: Yeah,
Riley: there is that, that naive vision of like, ah, here's, here's kind of my game plan.
Here's what it looks like, here's what it looks like on paper, is it is healthy, I think to just dive in and see what the crap happens. Man, I, I think you wanna have some wisdom in that, but Yeah,
You're gonna, you're gonna run into things you've never expected. And you know [00:56:00] what's, give us some examples. I'd love to hear things you've run into that you just didn't see coming. I
David Schlachter: I don't know. It's uh, I think. There's all sorts of like, things that can come about. I think marketing, marketing costs like, have been kind of like a, I think we, we thought also in like the, in the digital world, it would be easier to reach someone, but there's actually like a lot that goes into marketing that we kinda just weren't seeing.
Riley: Sure.
David Schlachter: we're like, oh, if I can, if I can just run into my neighbor, it's super easy to show him what I got here and talk to him about it. On, on the internet it's no different,
Riley: Yeah.
David Schlachter: but you don't realize how many people are actually trying to do that on the internet and how, how adverse people are actually to [00:57:00] being targeted on the internet to be marketed towards.
So I think trying to like figure out this marketing that is like fun. It's gentle. It's not so like. In your face. That's been kind of our, uh, our thing we're trying to find. And also honor, honor who we are as people and honor who we are as a brand, but also like what we're trying to create. And I think what we're trying to create doesn't need to be super pushed.
It just needs, we need to find the right balance. I think that's been something we've been taken off guard by is actually how difficult it is to create that, uh, interaction in the virtual space versus, uh, the real space.
Riley: it's, it is a learning curve, isn't it? It's like you're, ideas that we went into it with thinking, oh, I'm gonna post a thing and people are gonna respond and see it, and [00:58:00] then we post a thing
David Schlachter: Mm-hmm.
Riley: happens, and then we post another thing and nothing
David Schlachter: Yeah.
Riley: it's like, what are we doing?
Are we doing this right? Are we doing it wrong? What's, what's the deal? And you know, does it just take consistency? There's all these unanswered questions and so much of it just seems nebulous. Like everyone's got their opinion on what you should do, but no one else has got it figured out either, man.
David Schlachter: For sure.
Riley: Mr. Beast,
David Schlachter: The business,
Riley: yeah.
David Schlachter: yeah. The business model's forever changing. Like you think this is go like, especially in startup mode, it's like you think that this is what you're going to be spending your money, time, everything on, but then you're like, Nope, it's this. No, you're kind of, and it's not that like any of those things are wrong.
You're just starting to figure out what it takes to push into this, that, and this. It's just like, uh, it's a new, a new game. You're not versed in. It's like a white, white belt versus a black belt. Black belt has been in so many of [00:59:00] these positions. He knows that a right, the correct amount. A force to apply here and then as a white belt, you're just learning, man.
You're all over the place. A little, a little wild
Riley: Well, I'll tell, I'll tell you something. This is a, a, you know, it's a business lesson. It's a juujitsu lesson, both, but, and know it exists in every other, other venture. But, um, I got my black belt this year, right? Just, just recently. And
David Schlachter: con.
Riley: things
David Schlachter: Congrats man. That's epic.
Riley: dude. Yeah, it's a big deal to me.
But, um, but the point of that is I was a white belt and I was brand new at this, I thought black belts knew everything, could do everything and could not, you know, just were untouchable because that's what they felt like to me. But then I get here and I realize, holy crap, dude. We're just dudes too.
And not only are we not untouchable, we're very, very susceptible still. We can be submitted just like anybody else and, you know, [01:00:00] yeah, we have more experience and, you know, it's, it's this thing, but, but we're still very much, um, learning every day. It's like you, you hear people say, juujitsu begins at black belt.
Like, you really start to be able to learn. It's the same thing in business,
David Schlachter: Mm-hmm.
Riley: we're, you can be 20 years in, have a, a nice, uh, revenue going and, and built a really nice business, but you're still winging it every day. Every business owner I've ever talked to says, man, we're just making it up as we go.
You know? No one's ever done exactly
David Schlachter: Mm-hmm.
Riley: And so there's not a game plan for this. There's, we're just figuring it out
David Schlachter: Right.
Riley: that never changes. And I think that's comforting in a way, Right.
Where we're,
David Schlachter: Yeah,
Riley: Yeah, none of us know what we're talking
David Schlachter: I,
Riley: really.
David Schlachter: that's a good, that's a great way to put it. Just kind of like, uh, we're, we're making it up as we go, and like, uh, yeah, you don't really, like, you're, you're creating something brand new is what you said. And like, I think that's. If you're really setting off to like create a business. I think no matter [01:01:00] what, it's like brands are like people too.
Like we've, we carry our own DNA and if you push far enough in, eventually somebody is going to receive that in the way of like a different entity entirely. Then the rest, because it is, it's coming from a different place, different mind, different soul.
Riley: Yeah, it's got our fingerprints on it, but it's not really a, it's, yeah, it's just, you know, when you talked about your brother being involved in partners and there's these different ideas and different things and Yeah. It all has, it all has this effect and it flavors the mix. Right? It's beautiful.
David Schlachter: Mm-hmm.
Riley: beautiful, man.
Um, in your world, talk about what manufacturings look like, man, because you're, I am still curious when you, when you put in an order, your first order for shoes, how did you go about determining what sizes you get and how many of which color? Like what, what was your process there? [01:02:00]
David Schlachter: Well there's, there's like a little bit of like this bell curve and like, well in everything, but like in the shoe world especially, you've got this bell curve of like, and we're learning this as well. Like we thought that traditional footwear applies the same way, the same market as barefoot shoes. So the bell curve you would think is kind of like from nine to 10 and a half to 11.
And that's the peaks of the bell curve. And then it kind of, with women's kinda similar thing, you got size seven to eight and a half bell curve like this. But barefoot shoes, it's different. Like actually I think what we found is people with larger feet understand barefoot. Philosophy more than anyone.
'cause they're always just, 'cause they're, they're jamming their feet into anything. They're just like, dude, my feet are too big for this. Like, they already have the, they have more of an issue than [01:03:00] just this, like the lengths of their feet. They just understand kind of, and I don't know, it's just been interesting because like we've got like a lot of people who are like size 13, 14, these big shoe sizes who are like, I, I, I need to go size up.
And our, our, uh, sizes only go up to size 13. And so we're finding like a lot of people actually were missing on the, uh, end of that bell curve
Riley: Do you,
David Schlachter: and to, oh, go ahead.
Riley: ask, so when you're, when you're talking about that, you know, you have, 'cause there's not population wide, there's not a lot of people that are fourteens or fifteens or sixteens. Right. so you have to make that determination at some point. It's like, do I take a big risk to serve this tiny, tiny market?
Can I afford to do that? You know? Yeah. What, what do you do
David Schlachter: Again, I go, going back to going back to [01:04:00] MOQs and everything. I mean, I, I think so much of this is really just like, I wouldn't say gambling, but you are betting on it. You're betting on something, and I think for us, we want to, we wanna serve as many people as we can. I think, yeah, I don't know. I like, I like going in that direction as well, especially with sports.
A lot of athletes have larger feet and, uh, if we can get some athletes trained in our shoes and, uh, showcasing like the validity and the, the strengths of barefoot shoes, uh. I think it could be a big, big, uh, we could get a lot of reactions from that.
Riley: It's so interesting to me. So when, uh, when you are putting these orders in, what, what's an example of like, how many shoes do you have to [01:05:00] order to do the minimum order in that, in that.
world?
David Schlachter: It, it just depends. I mean, with lower, I mean, I think with anything, I mean, and you, you get this like lower MQs, higher costs, higher MQs, you get some lower costs and then it just depends where, where you and your partner, if it's just you, where, where the business is feeling fit enough to take on the risk to reward.
Riley: Hmm. Yeah. Oh, and it can matter dramatically, right? Between, yeah. If you, if you wanna order 10 sets of one shoe versus, you know, 400, you're, the
David Schlachter: Yeah,
Riley: item is dramatically different. Right. And at some point they won't
David Schlachter: for sure. I think
Riley: no, which is, guess the, we call it, minimum order.
Right.
David Schlachter: that's, that's been the tough part too, is like in manufacturing, especially overseas and sampling, [01:06:00] like, um, I think that it's tough to like iterate sometimes you're iterating and then, you know, they're like, I'm done taking advice. It's time you have to go into production and you're like, sorry, I'm not investing in something I don't love.
Like if I'm going to invest in this, it has to be picture perfect. I'll pay you for the sample fees. But some of these manufacturers, man, it's like they want you to freaking go into a production, run the first prototype and you're like, that's not how this works. So you, you've gotta push back, you gotta find the right balance and, um.
I don't know. It's been tough too, through like these tariffs. 'cause we've, we've been switching our supply chain all the way from, from China, Vietnam, and, you know, ideally we could be in the US I don't know how many, uh, manufacturing plants there are in the US and who can do it at scale. I,
Riley: That's, uh, something you said there when you're talking about [01:07:00] of the kind of shenanigans that the manufacturers wanna do. And I had this one guy I was talking to, and Yeah. I sent over, they sent me a quote back and he's like, we gotta get your, we gotta get your order placed this week. And I'm like, no dude, we're we're just starting this conversation, you know?
And, and then
David Schlachter: yeah.
Riley: he did this thing, man, I remember where he just flat lied to me. And he, he tried to tell me that one of the ingredients in our, formula had a its own minimum order of, for him it was, it was in the tons range. And it was a product. It
David Schlachter: Mm-hmm.
Riley: that very barely used. Like it's a small of the whole formula.
Right. And then
David Schlachter: It's at the end of the ingredient list.
Riley: just on this one ingredient. you know, I'm looking at him like that, that would make millions of packets of our, of our electrolyte. And you're telling me that's the minimum, but I know better. [01:08:00] And he's trying to, he, he was, he made me so mad, man.
'cause it was, total untruth, but he was putting, trying to put pressure on me. To get me to place this order because of this false deadline that, again, I knew better. I had a relationship with the manufacturer of the actual ingredient, so I knew that what he was telling me was a lie. But he, he was, man, he was sticking to his guns.
And I finally, the, the, the manufacturer at that point is like, if that guy ever shows up in my email thread again, this whole deal's off. I'm like, he is not, I'm not gonna talk to him. He's,
David Schlachter: Yeah.
Riley: lied to me. He did. You know, and I, I had to really draw a line there, just like this dude's dishonest and,
David Schlachter: Mm-hmm.
Riley: Yeah, Yeah. Have you, have you dealt with any
David Schlachter: Yeah, I, um, we've dealt with like a lot. Like it's, I, it's battle after battle and it doesn't really stop is like the, the, um, I was gonna say the funny part, but it's not really funny. It's like, I don't know, [01:09:00] you've, it just creates like, uh, initially my brother and me were very much like together on like prototyping and like, um, design iterations, but it just didn't work because like the manufacturers were like playing us against each other to get their way.
And like there was all sorts of like, nonsense that would happen and then they would just try not to make the changes. We stated like, we ended up like asking for some changes and they just wouldn't happen. We ended up flying out to China. To literally like, 'cause it was that key. It was like they, it had to do with like our outsole and like, I dunno, it's this, it's this micro level change, but you're telling me it's not possible.
And I'm about to put in our first order for this huge order. Like I'm, this is our first manufacturing run as a business. And it's just silly to me, man. Like, it's like [01:10:00] manufacturers don't really, and sometimes it's just you're with the wrong manufacturer, point blank, like bottom line. It's like if this manufacturer, uh, believes in your brand enough or he, it's like he's going to see the future and he's going to design for you.
And if the guy isn't doing that, you probably do have an issue with your manufacturer. And so we've, we've shifted around a little bit in that whole sphere and we've also, it doesn't. Hurt ever to have like kind of two options in the conversation because it'll definitely get that other guy on point.
Riley: Yeah. Well, these guys said they can do it.
David Schlachter: Pretty, pretty much. I mean, you don't want to like be like super mean, like always be playing people against each other. But it's like at the end of the day, like people need to realize they're not the only, the only options.
Riley: game in town that's real. It's funny that you said you had to [01:11:00] fly out to China. 'cause I I did the same thing. We were, we were dealing with some back and forth with them trying to, you know, exactly match our flavor profile. Um, because a couple of the ingredients weren't exactly the ingredient I used when I was building the formula in my kitchen, right?
And so, um,
David Schlachter: Mm-hmm.
Riley: we actually wanted some better stuff than I could get just in the market for my, my r and d you know, rough drafts of these things.
David Schlachter: Yeah.
Riley: we wanted some more
David Schlachter: Yeah.
Riley: So when we got that, that more purified, like Stevia for instance, it used a different amount than my, than the less pure stuff that I was using for r and d. And so then we had to kinda
David Schlachter: Mm-hmm.
Riley: right? In the, in the, the samples that they would send me back that they were mixing up, just didn't, they didn't taste right. And so, yeah, I went out to the manufacturer, we sat there, you know, I, I just called 'em up, said, Hey, I'm coming on this day and we're gonna sit there until we get it right.
And that's what we did, man. We sat in there from samples
David Schlachter: Yeah,
Riley: to the lab, and the lab was in the next room, right? And [01:12:00] so they would just mix it, bring it in, and we'd do it. And
David Schlachter: exactly.
Riley: was this thing and we finally got it right and then it was great. And, you know, we got exactly what we wanted and got the. Got it. Perfect. But it took us going there. We couldn't not do it remotely.
David Schlachter: I, I get it. My brother, we were jet lagged from the flight. My brother and me were sleep, sleeping in the sample office. Like, we're just like, we're, we're gonna be here until it's right. And if it's not right. We're not doing anything with you guys. So that's kind of how you do it. It's like a ultimatum.
Riley: yeah, yeah. That would kind of fall in that category. Things you didn't really see coming. Right? It's like, man, we're gonna go out there and fly around halfway around the world to go sit there until we Get it
David Schlachter: Get this right. Yeah.
Riley: I love it, man. Um, you, you mentioned David about how they would play you and your brother together, and so that brings kind of the, the partnership, um, questions into play here.
So what, [01:13:00] what's that partnership been like and how do you guys, how do you guys draw kind of boundaries on who does what so that you're not stepping on each other and, you know, fighting over the same problem?
David Schlachter: I, I was just in LA at, uh, Simi Valley with Carlos talking to them about this kind of with like brotherhood and then also like partnerships and stuff. Like, it [01:14:00] is, it's like a, I mean. It's a line you have to walk. And the cool part about it being in business with family or with your brother, for me it's like you have to resolve the problem because like your brotherhood, uh, blood triumphs, everything.
Family's like core number one pillar for me. And if there's a problem that seems like a Goliath that you just can't get around, you're gonna get around it. Like you're gonna find a way. Yeah. So I would, I would just say like that. And I think I, any business you're gonna run into problems with or without your brother and, um, there's just no one I'd rather have in my corner than my brother.
Riley: That's cool, man. I, you know, my wife is her and I run salty, electrolyte 'cause do all the decision making happens with her and I, right. And so we, uh, but [01:15:00] it's one of those things, and we've been in business together that way in other companies too, for, for years. And one of the things we learned kind of the hard way was when we're, when we're at work, she answers to me more as an employee than my wife. Right. And so we had to kind of put on these very, um, we had to wear different hats. It's like, but when I turn her loose on the marketing side of it, she gets that. And when she makes a decision, I don't second guess her. You know, we'll come up with a game plan and then I trust her to do that.
It's, it's been delegated out, but there's like that, uh, know, if we're around employees or that sort of thing, she doesn't call me sweetheart. Or honey cakes or
David Schlachter: Yeah,
Riley: happens to be. She, she calls me Ri
David Schlachter: don't, don't hold hands into the meeting.
Riley: man. Yeah.
we're not doing that. So she, she, she gets to
David Schlachter: Yeah.
Riley: just like the other employees.
And so there's not that kinda weird feel in the business. And that's helped a lot,
David Schlachter: Yeah.
Riley: I trust her with her department and she [01:16:00] trusts me with my department and, you know, sometimes I'll bounce ideas off her, but you know, in the areas that I have assigned to me, I control and the areas I've assigned to her, she controls.
And so have you guys done that strategically and, you know, purposefully or what's, what's that look like in your world?
David Schlachter: F for sure. I think we revisit it every so often too. Um, and we have some heart tart conversations at times and, uh, where we just spill out kind of what's on our mind. I mean, whether it's a friction point or it's you're doing something well, I mean, business to me is very similar to Juujitsu in that the mats don't lie.
And business like your, your business isn't gonna lie at the end of the day. Like if, if there's times of like low sales or low action, there's gonna be like, Hey, what's going on? Like, what are we doing
Riley: what are we not doing
David Schlachter: and
Riley: Yeah.
David Schlachter: what are we, yeah. Or what are we not doing? And I think we have those [01:17:00] conversations and um, we're gonna continue to, and, uh, yeah, just in business, like you said, like also there is some level of that too, where you have to separate from, uh, just being all out or nothing.
And you do kind of have to say, at the end of the day, this is a business. And like, we have to make sure this thing's running good if we're not tied to it. If we don't want to be tied to it in some way, we need to have the honest conversation and um, work things out and whatever, whatever way fits the business best.
'cause at the end of the day, we're both signed up to make this thing succeed. And if we're not all in, we gotta, we gotta talk. And we've, we've had those conversations many times and, uh, not many times, but just like if, if we aren't tied to process. We delegate it. If we, if we can. If we can't, [01:18:00] we say we don't wanna do this, and we'll work it out.
Riley: Yeah, those conversations ahead of time are a big deal, man. They're a big deal.
David Schlachter: Mm-hmm.
Riley: well, tell me this, man. Can, would you be okay? We're gonna move on to some lighter questions, little funner stuff.
David Schlachter: I, I love it. Let's get out of the manufacturing world and,
Riley: Yeah.
David Schlachter: just kidding. Relationships,
Riley: Well listen, I know this is kind of new to you, um, but this is called the Go Earn Your Salt podcast. And something I ask every guest is, when you hear that term, go earn your salt. What does that mean to you?
David Schlachter: sweat. That's, that's it, man. I, that's how I think about it. And I, yeah, I think it's a badass name. It's cool. It's like, yeah, go, go sweat. And, uh, it doesn't mean you have to. Carry the weight of the world on your shoulders, but move.
Riley: Yeah. [01:19:00] Get after. I love it. I love it. David, Um, you personally, what is your, your favorite pastime outside? You've talked about Juujitsu and you're into that, and maybe that's it, but what's your favorite pastime when you're away from work?
David Schlachter: Um, I'd say eating, eating clean, eating healthy, and, uh, walking.
Riley: Yeah,
David Schlachter: Like just,
Riley: talk about walking, man. 'cause I, and you know, we're in, we're talking about shoes, right? But we're talking about walking. 'cause that's a lot of times you're, you said you're 26 years old,
David Schlachter: yeah,
Riley: and
David Schlachter: just turn 26.
Riley: what I want you to kind of address, like walk-ins, you just kind of like the, the thing old people do, Man, but, but you're a young guy and you've, discovered some benefits to walking apparently.
So what, tell me about it.
David Schlachter: Man, I just love it. I, uh, it's very meditative to me. And as we talked about before, with quieting down kind of the conscious, [01:20:00] uh, and kind of emptying the mind from everything, whether it's, you know, relationships, um, business jiu juujitsu, any dramas, anything you can always just recenter. And I don't know, to me, like I, it more profound than just walking, you know, walking on a treadmill is getting in nature where I can, being close to water is my favorite.
It, it just, it's like the most meditative act for me.
Riley: That's awesome man. David, what's your favorite band of all time?
David Schlachter: Dang, this is tough. This is tough. I'd, I'd go the doors.
Riley: Nice, nice. Is it you got a favorite song?
David Schlachter: The end is pretty cool. Like I love the opening sequence to Apocalypse Now with the end. [01:21:00]
Riley: I, uh,
David Schlachter: It's pretty, it's pretty fire.
Riley: that's cool. I'm gonna have to listen now 'cause I, it's, it's funny 'cause I ask people their favorite band and I'm, I'm always into like, you know, the eighties stuff. 'cause that's, that's when I grew up. And, and, uh,
David Schlachter: Yeah,
Riley: I, I also realize as I ask these questions, how narrow my scope of music. Because sometimes people name stuff, I'm like, gosh, I don't even know what that is, man, that's funny.
David Schlachter: yeah. No, it's check out, uh, the Ender even. Have you seen Apocalypse Now?
Riley: I haven't, no, that's what I'm kind of,
David Schlachter: Dude,
Riley: saying.
David Schlachter: it's an intense film. It's cool.
Riley: Um, I'm gonna, I'm gonna put that on my list, man. I, I gotta do, yeah. I'm gonna have to put here Apocalypse now. Yeah. I'm taking notes here, so hold tight.
David Schlachter: Amazing.
Riley: Okay. Um, tell me something quirky about you that people don't know.
David Schlachter: Let's think. There's a lot of quirky things. It's just, I don't know, man. They're not coming up to my mind real quick. Uh, I think some of my [01:22:00] like eating behaviors are pretty quirky.
Riley: Oh,
David Schlachter: Like, I'll, I'll do some, I don't know man. I do all sorts of weird things, but I mean, they're, they're good for you. I just, people think it's like weird 'cause it's out in the ordinary, like, and right here we've got some like apple cider vinegar and, you know, I.
Uh, like it's not that quirky, like it's the right stuff, you know, filter your water, uh, remineralize your water. Um, shoot, I don't know. I've got, oh, I, I'm, I, I used to compete in boogie boarding.
Riley: Boogie board.
David Schlachter: That's kind of, yeah,
Riley: looked really fun to me, man. uh, I always thought it looked funner than surfing, but I don't know. I've never done either, so.
David Schlachter: it's, it's probably what helps me if I get into side control, just being able to boogie board Good. It's kind of the same frame
Riley: dude. So you can, yeah,
David Schlachter: kind. I've got that.
Riley: down with just your [01:23:00] body movement, huh? I,
David Schlachter: No, man, if, if we meet on the mats, I'm gonna be under you inside control. Like,
Riley: that youth in the, that youth in
David Schlachter: but
Riley: ha has a lot to do with, with things, you know.
David Schlachter: Yeah.
Riley: Okay. You mentioned tacos. What's your favorite food?
David Schlachter: Pasta.
Riley: Pasta. Oh, dude,
David Schlachter: So it's so simple.
Riley: So good.
David Schlachter: So good. Dude, it's the best.
Riley: dish.
David Schlachter: I, I don't re pasta. Aon like, uh, spaghetti Aon or something like that. Like, it's like a buttery lemon. And there's no meat, there's nothing. Maybe a little bit of Parmesan, a little bit of pepper.
Riley: You
David Schlachter: That's it.
Riley: cut.
David Schlachter: But it doesn't have to be spaghetti, anything out. Limon is like,
Riley: Is like a creamy, citrusy sauce. [01:24:00] Dude,
David Schlachter: that's it.
Riley: called Greek Penne. that's what they called it. And it was a citrusy cream sauce. And it.
was, it's one of the best things I've ever had in my life. So if it's like that, yeah, I hear you.
David Schlachter: Gotta do it. Gotta do it. When, when you get the chance to do, uh, any pasta, Limon do it.
Riley: I'm gonna, uh, yeah. Been to take word. Take your word on that too. Um,
tell me scariest moment, moment of your life.
David Schlachter: Um, probably, uh,
my, my brother, my dad and me lost a bet once and we had to go jump in the ocean kind of at like. 2:00 AM
Riley: Ooh,
David Schlachter: That was the poker bet. And so we went to Torry Pines and we were like getting our stuff going back to the car. We shine a light and there's a guy at the car with a gun just like at our car, pointing [01:25:00] at the gun.
No one's in the car,
Riley: the heck?
David Schlachter: like he's got a pistol. Like right there. We see the whole silhouette and we're like, holy shit, that guy's got a gun and we didn't know what to do. Our best bet probably was go back to the ocean, but my brother starts to shine the flashlight. The guy just freaks out, gets in his car, skirts over a median, and he's out of there.
And that was it. That was the night. And like we didn't even call the police or anything. We went back home. It was 2:00 AM and we're just like, that's the night. Like
Riley: And you don't know what he was doing, huh?
David Schlachter: it was no idea. I don't know if he was just looking for like a young couple at the overlook who were like. Having a night and he was gonna rob him.
I mean, I think he was for sure trying to rob someone,
Riley: Dang, man.
David Schlachter: but it was freaky.
Riley: So you saw he, he wasn't pointing it at you necessarily. He was just You could see the
David Schlachter: He would've, [01:26:00] if we were in the car, he would've been, and then we were on the beach and it was like, we're either gonna be running from a, I don't know, we, it was just hard to like assess the situation from there. Like, is the guy robbing us? Is he like a serial killer? Like, what is this dude doing? But we just were like, we all had kind of made a pact.
We're like, we're going back.
Riley: So dude your young man, a 26 years old, but if you could give your, your younger self some advice, what would it be?
David Schlachter: Take, take your time and don't, uh, don't rush into things so quick. Kind of just, uh, take your time and also keep showing up doing the things you're doing, but maybe, uh, just understand you're kind of young and it things take time to compound.
Riley: I said, you're dropping bombs. That's, that is good advice. 'cause you're right, you're uh, you gotta learn some stuff. We talked about being [01:27:00] naive, going into things earlier and what kind of a benefit that was. And I think that's part of it is like, just takes time to learn. You know, you, you started this juujitsu journey and you find out pretty quick in that world that there's a lot you don't know, but just keep showing up.
You learn.
David Schlachter: Like, like you said too, it's just continuous at the highest level. You know it at a deeper level,
Riley: That's it.
David Schlachter: know.
Riley: Yeah.
David Schlachter: that's, the craziest piece.
Riley: Crazy. Yeah. How you can learn so much but still know so little and still learn, in fact. Yeah. I would venture to say the more experienced you get in anything, the more able you are to learn, right? You just, your sponge gets better at soaking things up. 'cause you maybe, maybe what you really learn is just the questions to ask, the right questions to ask and the, you know, you learn where some pitfalls are that you can stay away from.
David Schlachter: O
Riley: Yeah. Yeah. That's for real, man. Um, [01:28:00] what's an item on your bucket list? What's something you just want to do before you cash in all your chips?
David Schlachter: I think go to like
Riley: Yeah,
David Schlachter: or like, yeah, something like that. I don't know. Something very like off grid and kind of rooted in like. Something like grounded in nature, like to where you're, I don't know. I'm, I'm obsessed with technology, but also I want to see kind of the other side of things as well and just, I don't know, Mongolia also, I feel like it just feels like a spiritual destination to
Riley: there's some interesting stuff I got, I got invited, a cousin of mine does, uh, adventure bike riding, right? He's, he's really into that. And one of the things he wants to do here, uh, a couple years from now is go over and ride to Himalayas. And he invited me to go be a support team, like drive a [01:29:00] Jeep and, you know, follow him around.
And I thought, uh, might be kind of cool, but, you know, I've never even, that's never crossed my mind. So it's a very new thought. You're like, man, I don't know.
David Schlachter: Why not?
Riley: Yeah. We'll check that out and see what happens. But I, you know, I don't know if I'm gonna take 'em up on it or not, but yeah, it's, it's now on the radar, so we'll see.
We'll see. That's, uh, that's cool. Um. Do you have a favorite book of all time?
David Schlachter: Uh,
Riley: Okay. You're gonna have to spell that. I don't know what you just said.
David Schlachter: it's TAO. TE, C-H-I-N-G.
Riley: tell me about it.
David Schlachter: Uh, it's, so, don't know how, uh, how much you, you're in the world of like [01:30:00] Buddhism or like, uh, but it's very much in that realm. It's just like this nice book that like that. That, uh, essence of like not rushing things like, just being very present, but also like understanding you are moving, like You don't have to like go a hundred miles per hour to hit that thing.
You're, you're in motion. Just keep doing the owning those small wins and showing up.
Riley: You know, that's, that's an interesting thing 'cause you've talked about this now a couple times, right? That, that, that moving slow and I've, I've always really in, uh, really admired like. When I think about Samurai swords and how those are made and, and how these Japanese swordsmiths will work a lifetime to learn that perfect little detail, you know, and, and how [01:31:00] much time goes into small, small details, man.
How, how they pour themselves into it for years and years and years and years to become this, you know, what we want to call a master. And then, you know, it's along the same vein as what we've been talking about. It's like all they do is get to a point where they know how much they don't know, but they've, they've become the best in the world at a thing maybe, but they, yeah, they small increments at a time and massive amount of years in between, you know, steps of growth.
And I admire the heck outta that. I think that was cool. As cool as crap, man.
David Schlachter: Sure man.
I'm with you. It's, it's like the, that's just the essence of life. That's it to me. The overarching
Riley: Yeah. God, that's good stuff. Um, what's next for you, man? Where you gonna go from here?
David Schlachter: I'm going to be, to move, I need to lift [01:32:00] today, I need to earn my salt as, as you would say, ri, I gotta get after it. So I think, um. I've been, uh, on a few calls this morning and I wanna get in my daily movement. So I'm gonna be moving and thinking about some sh some shoes a little, and that's it, man. Might, might, might look for some new spots to prototype some more, uh,
Riley: Nice. Nice. It's funny you, you mentioned gonna move 'cause I, you know, you're thinking about shoes, but you've been on some phone calls. I, my afternoon is gonna look exactly like that when we're finished recording, I'm jumping on doing some good old fashioned cold calls, man. Hitting, hitting the streets. And then, uh, yeah, gonna go for a run.
So there we go. We're on the same wavelength. Love it. I love it.
David Schlachter: go.
Riley: tell us where you can be found, man.
David Schlachter: Uh, you can find us anywhere [01:33:00] online@abstractchimp.com and then, uh, any across any socials. It's just gonna be at
Riley: Beautiful.
David Schlachter: Yeah, check, check us out. And, uh, I, I also realized I hadn't shown the
Riley: Well, yeah, I was gonna actually stick some pictures up, but let's do that. Let's, um, let's patch that in, man. Show us what they look like, because there was, there was something I forgot to mention earlier, but you have, uh. On top of the, kind of the, where the soul wraps around, you alluded to the toes on there, right?
You got these lines on there that kind of have that design, and I was gonna ask you that earlier if that's what you intended on, but that, that sure is what it looks like.
David Schlachter: Actually a lot of the design was like inspired by the foot, aside from just like the structural, uh. Structural, uh, changes to like the tow box and the zero drop outsole, like.
so just to give you style behind the box too, you got [01:34:00] kind of like a neo from
Riley: Oh, cool.
David Schlachter: out there. But uh, this is the black shoe and we've got cream, white black, all monochromatic. But aside from just the shape of the shoe, what I was gonna tell you about, which was super intentional for me, is I wanted to design kind of the upper in that same way. So like you're, if you look at your foot, this is kind of inside of your like arch right here, and then you've got five toes, which was
Riley: Oh,
David Schlachter: on
Riley: nice.
David Schlachter: eyelets. And then we also feature on the outsole reflexology chart from like Eastern medicines, which is just that your feet connect to a larger system just regarding them as they're your feet. And that's all they are. Now, these things are powerhouses, they're your foundations, and they connect from like, [01:35:00] uh, eastern medicines and traditions.
Like they're, they're believing. And, uh, energy systems that connect from your nerves and meridians like on your feet to organs. So this could be your liver, this could be, whatever organ system it is. But, uh, you can actually heal your body through your feet.
Riley: That's an interesting thing, man. 'cause yeah, you could, you would definitely see those. If you're walking out on the trails, I, I get a kick out of it. 'cause there's, there's, you know, myself and a few other guys around here who will run with actual bare feet, you know, and no shoes at all. And yeah, we can always see where each other's been.
Follow the trails. That would be a very, uh, oh, I lost you there again for a second. Um, gosh, I'm gonna, I'm gonna actually cut that real quick here. So we're at, at two hours. Um, but yeah, your soul is very unique, right? You'd be able to see, you'd be able to see where anyone went and you, [01:36:00] you know exactly who you're following with that.
So don't commit a crime in a pair of abstract shrimp shoes. Right.
David Schlachter: exactly.
Riley: That's awesome, man. Well, dude, it's been a pleasure having you on. I, um, because I don't wanna pick up a set of those black ones. I like to get black shoes myself. 'cause they kind of go, you can, you can wear 'em with just about anything. Um, but yeah, it's been a pleasure having you on the show.
David Schlachter: Join, join the abstraction
Riley: Yeah, yeah. I'm looking forward to it, dude. So listen man, go out there, earn your salt. Appreciate you once again. We'll, uh,
David Schlachter: Will, will do, man. I, I need to stock up on some, uh, some electrolytes as
Riley: I'm gonna, I'm gonna send you some, so I'm gonna get your address when we get off here, but let's, uh, yeah, we'll do that. And then, uh, like I said, I, well, I didn't say it I guess, but I do wanna maybe in a year or two have you back on after you've taken some more business steps and we'll revisit this whole idea.
Okay?
David Schlachter: Would love to
Riley: Alright, man. Go in your salt, my [01:37:00] friend.