Steven Hiscoe: [00:00:00] We were in the hallway upstairs, beside the door, but a super small hallway. It's an old building. Not a lot of space to go.
So she comes out, we're right there, there's no backing away in the stairs. She had, uh, taken a knife, slid her hand and rubbed blood all over her face and was screaming.
Riley: , Today we have Steve Hisco. he is, uh, Ari who is on a previous episode, is a, is a friend in common here. So that's how, that's how Steve and [00:01:00] I met. Um, Steve is a level Japanese juujitsu instructor and school owner, and he's, he's got some really cool things to say about building business and delegation and systemizing.
And that's, that's what really prompted this discussion is I wanted to hear from Steve and pick his brain here a little bit for all you guys to hear. So Steve, welcome to the show, my friend.
Steven Hiscoe: Thanks Riley. Thanks for having me.
Riley: Yeah, well, tell us about you. Tell us who you are, where you grew up, and what life was like as a kid.
Steven Hiscoe: Sure. Uh, so I grew up in Ottawa, Ontario, Canada, and, um, you know, I started in martial arts when I was seven years old. Uh, I think I was probably the typical kid that came home maybe one too many times complaining about, you know, getting pushed around and maybe not having the confidence that I needed.
Things that all parents kind of talked to us instructors about. Um, so I started taking, [00:02:00] you know, juujitsu lessons, uh, specifically Cannery jut Juujitsu, which is a Canadian style of jiujitsu, but based on sort of the Japanese style, not Brazilian juujitsu. Um, grew up in Ottawa High School. I am, uh, first language French, uh, went to French school.
And then when I was about, uh, 18, 19 years old, um, I was teaching the part of the kids program in the school that I belong to. And, uh, one of the parents of the kids that I was teaching, he was an RCMP member. Uh, so for those, I don't know, that means our rural Canadian Mount of Police, that's our national police force here in Canada.
And uh, so it was kind of a Saturday afternoon conversation off the side of the mat and it was kind of like, Steve Whatcha gonna do with your life. Uh, like I said, I was 18 and I said, I'm gonna, I'm gonna teach Jiujitsu, I'm gonna have a martial arts school. And he [00:03:00] said, well, have you ever thought of a career in.
Policing. And I had not, my dad was a firefighter, a career firefighter. Um, so I went home and talked to my parents about it, put my resume together and all that kind of stuff. I applied to the RCMP in, uh, March of 1988, wrote my exam to get in, in, uh, April of 1988. And on the 3rd of January, 1989, I signed on the dotted line.
They gave me my plane tickets and b said, uh, be at the airport at one o'clock this afternoon, we're sending you to, uh, Regina Saskatchewan, which is right in the middle of Canada. And on the 3rd of January, it was about minus 30 degrees Celsius. Uh, so yeah, after I graduated from the police academy, I ended up completely on the opposite side of the country.
On, uh, here in, um. Chillowak [00:04:00] Abbotsford area, the Fraser Valley area, which is about an hour, uh, east of Vancouver, British Columbia. And um, so that's
Riley: Regina is the only place in Canada I've actually visited.
Steven Hiscoe: okay.
Riley: this. Yeah. I drove up there one time. I had a, um, I used to be in construction industry and we had a role forming machine and I needed, needed to have it serviced, so I, I took it up there. The North American machine manufacturers is up there and I didn't know if they still exist, but yeah, I drove 24 hours one way to get that machine fixed and they fixed it in five minutes. Something that I had. it was, it was, it was wild. A lot of road time for that, but yeah,
Steven Hiscoe: it wasn't the third of,
Riley: man.
Steven Hiscoe: hopefully it wasn't in the middle of January.
Riley: No, it was, it was in the summertime and it was very pleasant up there.
Steven Hiscoe: Yeah.
Riley: of flat land. Right.
Steven Hiscoe: Yeah. You watch your dog run away for days.
Riley: Yeah, that's, so there's this little series, you're probably familiar with it. Um, corner Gas. [00:05:00] Have you seen
Steven Hiscoe: Yep.
Riley: uh, it's whatever, it's, uh, prime, I think it's on. And that's part of the lyrics of the intro song, right?
Steven Hiscoe: Right?
Riley: you watch your dog run away. It only took three days, you know, and we didn't know what that meant, so we had to look it up.
Yeah, yeah.
Steven Hiscoe: Yeah. Pretty flatland.
Riley: means, I guess. Go, go into that. Just a, just a hair.
Steven Hiscoe: Yeah. It just means that it's super flatland, right? Like there's no trees, it's just straight fields and you can see for miles and miles and miles. So yeah, when your dog runs away, you literally can see it run away for, you know, days 'cause it's still in sight.
Riley: That's awesome, man. That's, that's great. So, okay. Um, so you were, you were talking about joining the police force. You go up there, it's 36 below Celsius, which I don't even know how to translate that, but that's, uh.
Steven Hiscoe: Old.
Riley: That sounds cold.
Steven Hiscoe: When you listen to the radio in the morning, first thing when, and they say any exposed skin will, uh, will [00:06:00] freeze within, you know, a couple of minutes. It's pretty cold.
Riley: It's true. Yeah. Wow. Yeah, we don't, in Boise, here in Idaho, we don't get those cold. We're kind of, they call us the banana belt of Idaho and it stays fairly warm here. Like we'll see teens in single digits and occasionally a little below zero Fahrenheit, but not, the deep below zeros. Yeah. Um, so talk about this, man.
You're, you said you started at seven years old into the martial arts, um, because of some bullying situations. So what did you start in? Was it, was it Japanese Jiujitsu then?
Steven Hiscoe: So I have stayed with the same martial arts system, uh, my entire 50 years. Um, so, um, except for about eight, nine years ago I started doing Brazilian jiujitsu on their re and, uh, Keith Owen. And, and, um, but that was, like I said, about [00:07:00] eight, nine years ago. But I've stayed with the same, yeah, but I've stayed with the same juujitsu style from being a, a white belt as a 7-year-old, and now I'm a ninth degree black belt in, uh, can juujitsu.
So, yeah, so I, I've been very consistent with the same program.
Riley: That is super cool. So for my sake, more even so than maybe audience members, but can you describe the, the difference between the Brazilian and the Japanese Jiu-Jitsu?
Steven Hiscoe: Yeah, so in our style Jiujitsu, um, so. Our founder was a gentleman by the name of George Silva. He was a military police officer. He was a city, uh, city police officer when he got outta the military. So, uh, he had a background in karate, had a background in judo, military combatives, and he kind of put that all together into a, into a system.
And, um, so we do [00:08:00] some striking sort of boxing style striking and whatnot. We will do many of the same judo throws and things like that, but the meat and potatoes is somebody grabs you, how do you get out of that? So be it a wrist grab, be it a bear hug, a hair grab. So how do you get them on the ground? And then follow up with control techniques after that and then create your distance.
Um, so very much kind of a, you know, hands-on. Uh, whereas obviously Brazilian jiujitsu is a lot of on the ground self-defense. Um. In can Roo Juujitsu, we have a component that is on the ground, but one of the reasons that I wanted to learn Brazilian Jiujitsu besides the fact that, uh, Ari is a friend of mine, is, uh, to help sort of blend those two things together.
So just to kind of add a little bit more to what I was able to offer my students.
Riley: Beautiful man. That, that's great. yeah, that helps me. I've been kind of questioned. I, I know a guy here in Boise [00:09:00] that is a, he's a, don't know if he ever made black belt. I think he almost got there, but he was in the Japanese jiujitsu world. But I've never got to really sit down and talk to him about it and figure
Steven Hiscoe: Yeah,
Riley: know, what the, what the real difference was.
So,
Steven Hiscoe: if you, uh, go into that great thing called, uh, YouTube and just type in Hisco Jiujitsu in there, we've got a channel and you can see some of our roo Juujitsu on there and stuff, so
Riley: Nice. We'll make sure and tag that below. So, I think, I think you probably sent that to me in your bio, didn't you?
Steven Hiscoe: I could have, yeah.
Riley: Good, good. If not, I'll make sure and get all that info. Um, okay. So what point in this journey did you decide to make this your, your business?
Steven Hiscoe: Back in 1992, so when I first came to British Columbia, there was no, um, or at least in the area that I was at, any Japanese jiujitsu. Wasn't a lot of juujitsu at all Brazilian or Japanese. Back in the, like I said, the early nineties. And, um, [00:10:00] so I joined a karate club, a uh, shotokan karate club. Funny story is I went, uh, as I was working as a police officer, I went to, uh, somebody who'd been involved in a car accident with a motorcycle and, um, didn't think anything of it.
A few days later I was going through the newspaper and there was a listing for the Avature karate club, and the guy that was riding the motorcycle in the accident I attended was listed as the contact name for the karate club. So I called him up and said, Hey, this is, uh, Constable Hisco. I don't know if you remember me from your accident.
And he was like, oh, yeah, yeah. I said, I'm a third degree black belt in, uh, in Jiujitsu. Yeah. And, uh, there's no juujitsu around here, so could I come in and, you know, see you guys or come and train with you guys and stuff? And so they were very welcoming. Um, so I did karate. They wanted to learn juujitsu, so it ended up being kind of [00:11:00] a cross training situation.
That's how my school started. And um, and I'm still in contact with some of those instructors from back then as well.
Riley: You know, we had an experience like that one time, and I thought it was really cool where before I started training under Keith Owen, I, I did like a Gracie Garage type situation with some, some friends, and we would get in there training and, but we were at a, um, kajukenbo school and the Kajukenbo guys would come in with us and they'd learn some ground stuff and then we would cross train with them.
It was, that was a cool interaction, man. It was.
Steven Hiscoe: Yeah.
Riley: have a different take on things, different look, and it was, it was fun.
Steven Hiscoe: I, I always enjoyed kind of the, you know, the kicking and the punching aspect. So it kind of felt natural for me to kind of be there with them. And they were, uh, very open-minded, right? Which is difficult to find sometimes. Uh, so they're very open-minded and willing to learn. And, and of course, you know, I think doesn't matter what [00:12:00] we're doing, you need to be coachable.
So either being coachable on the mat, coachable in business, um, you know, those kind of things. And, um, so it led to a, a great relationship. And so 34 years later, you know, my school still exists because of, uh, because of that.
Riley: Is that nice? Talk about that coachable trait, man. Um, and this comes from as a business owner, but you also as a student. So you see both sides of that, right? You said you started to train under Ari partly 'cause he is your friend, but partly because you wanted to blend the styles so that. You are both those in, in his world, right?
'cause you were his Japanese juujitsu coach, plus you're now a student under him. So there's that, that reciprocal thing that happens. And can you talk about how you kind of switch gears between those two, wearing those two hats?
Steven Hiscoe: Yeah, I, I think one is you gotta be humble and you gotta be willing to, you know, to learn. [00:13:00] And obviously when I, when I very first started doing Brazilian jiujitsu, um, it was very, you know, very different, um, you know, system, if you want to call it that. You know, one, when I first started, I could, I, I was like a white belt.
I remember being trapped underneath somebody, and I tell my students it's kind of like drowning, right? You're just kinda, you can't breathe, you're panicking, you don't know. And, um, so just kind of really being able to kind of, you know, take those lessons and whatnot. So, um, what I. Then started with, uh, Keith Owen and Team Rhino and with Ari and working the drills and stuff.
It really made it a lot easier to learn, but being able to kind of put that white belt back on and not worry about what you have done before and just take the lessons that other people are teaching you. And I think, you know, sometimes we own, you know, we, we think, you know, like I said, I've been doing this for 50 years and I'm a [00:14:00] eight ninth degree black belt.
Um, but going back to being a white belt, some people have a real hard time doing that. I didn't have a hard time doing that because I, you know, truly wanted to learn and the, you know, offer my respect to those instructors and not come in and think, well, I know what I'm doing because I really didn't know what I was doing.
So put that white belt back on, right.
Riley: You know, one of the, my company, salty Electrolytes, uh, some electrolytes supplement brand. I don't know if Ari's talked to you about that, but we, um, we sponsor another podcast and it's called The Forever White Belt Podcast. And, and the host of, it's not a white belt, but he's, that's his mindset is like keeping that, that teachability, that coachability
Steven Hiscoe: Yeah.
Riley: You know, it's like, I've been around this game a long time. I know a lot of things, but I don't know all the things. And so it's being, being able to learn.
Steven Hiscoe: You know, even going to seminars and camps and, [00:15:00] you know, like you say, we've been around, seen a lot of stuff, but maybe it's just one little adaptation or one little, you know, change to a technique that you're doing or mindset or whatnot. Sometimes just opens up a whole new world and gives you, you know, having those fresh eyes to be able to look at things and go, ah, you know what?
I never thought about it that way. So, yeah.
Riley: Yeah, that's, that's a big deal. Um, not just in the martial arts, but just in life in general. Right. Is that teachability? Sometimes you do, you, you kind of fight through something? I think of certain books I read where I'm not really enjoying the entire book, but man, I'll find a nugget in there that changes something in my world and it's super valuable.
I'm glad I spent the time to get there. Steve, talk about, um. As you've built this business, it's, you know, we're, we're talking the martial arts school [00:16:00] now. Um, what, what did that look like at the beginning? Because you, you, you mentioned teaming up in this karate school, but, but I imagine you go in there and you, you're starting out at some point you had one student, right?
And then what did, how did it grow from there?
Steven Hiscoe: So, uh, yeah. When I first started, you know, obviously I was teaching the karate guys and, um, once the word got out that, you know, there was a somebody teaching Juujitsu in town, I started getting other non karate people. Um, but at first I didn't have a location. So, um, I also had a martial arts store, a a business partner, and I had opened a, a martial arts store.
So we were selling equipment and stuff and wasn't very big and it wasn't very successful, but it allowed us to make a lot of contacts in the community, in the martial arts community. And so I got to meet the owner of the, um, judo club and one of the TaeKwonDo [00:17:00] schools. And, um, so. I was renting space from them.
So I was only teaching a couple of nights a week at that time. So one night I was in, you know, or two nights I was in one location. And then another day I was in a different location and sort of finding space where I could, being a police officer, uh, and being involved with the schools in town. So like the elementary and the high schools.
Um, I got to know some of the, uh, teachers there. So one of the high schools allowed me to use their gym after hours during the summer. They had given me a key to the school and everything. So I had a lot of people kind of helping me out that way. And then eventually, you know, our, our clientele was building, but I want to say, you know, 20, 25, maybe 30 as a starting point.
And, uh, we, my business partner and I decided, let's give this a try. Let's open a school. [00:18:00] I was like 24, 24, 25 years old, and I didn't know what the hell I was doing. Right. Um, and uh, so we had a beautiful school. It was going well, but again, we, you know, this is, uh, like I said, 90, late nineties, 96, 97, 98, and we didn't know what I, you know, I didn't know what I was doing.
Um, so if you've read the book, you probably have E-Myth, uh, or the E-Myth, right? So where you're a technician, but you're not an entrepreneur, you're a black belt, who thinks you can operate a martial arts school? While I was a black belt, I knew how to teach. I didn't know how to operate a martial arts school.
And, uh, so that lasted, um, I wanna say probably four, five years. And, um, but our school wasn't growing and as well. I had a full-time career as a police officer, so, and I was [00:19:00] on shift work, so I would work two days, work two nights, get four days off. And that was, you know, my cycle. So, um, so the school didn't, didn't fly and we ended up shutting it down after kind of that four or five years.
And then I just went back to teaching part-time. So one of my students had a detached garage that he had matted. So I was using that location and, uh, I lived about half an hour away from that location. And then I had kids with my wife, and now we had, you know, responsibilities at home. So I gave the school to one of my students and then I just kind of went back to training in karate in the community that I was at until my son turned six.
And then, uh, I decided that I would start teaching again. And, um. Rented the karate club where I was at [00:20:00] and did that for probably 10 years. Uh, stayed with them through a couple of moves and then it was just putting money in the bank. And, uh, once I had enough money and my clientele had built up, that's when I decided to go full-time again.
And that was, uh, 2011 because my son's born in 2012. So 2011, uh, sort of September of 2011 is when we, or when I decided I'm going back in full-time. And then that's where the lessons really started to, to come.
Riley: Okay. you mentioned before the E-Myth and the being a black belt on the mats, but not in the business aspect of it, what kind of things are you talking about? You said you didn't know what you were doing, so can you, can you be specific on those?
Steven Hiscoe: Yeah. Um, so things like systems, things like, uh, bringing [00:21:00] people into the school onboarding process, um, you know, those kind of, you know, managing the business, the, the numbers, the metrics, those kind of things. Um, you know, because I think a lot of times, uh, instructors will gauge the success of their business on how many students they have, when really we should be gauging it on the bottom line, right?
Like, what is our, um, not even our gross revenue, but what's our profit, right? What are we, what are we making doing this? So, you know, those kind of, those kind of things. You know, I still struggle with some, uh, aspects because, you know, we've been two years into it and I think it takes a little bit more time to build, but.
I sometimes I still think of myself as a one man show, so I'm teaching classes. I'm trying to build my team, I am doing sales, I am like all that kind of stuff until we can really kind of get the rest of our [00:22:00] processes in place. 'cause it is a, a learning and an ongoing piece.
Riley: That's funny. I, I've heard the joke over the years that the, the title CEO means chief Everything Officer. You get to be a one man show for a while. And I think those are the things that, uh, catch people off guard, right? Is you, you do go in as a technician
Steven Hiscoe: Yeah.
Riley: got the knowledge of the sport, the knowledge, even how to teach it. But then when it comes to, you said, systems billing, keeping up on that, keeping people's, you know, credit and debit cards on file so they can rebuild. Do you have a system for that? Is there, you mentioned onboarding, right? With any business that customer onboarding man, if it's not graceful and has a good way to plug them into the system and keep tabs on what's going on there, you'll lose 'em out the back door faster than you lose 'em out or bring 'em in the front, right.
Steven Hiscoe: Absolutely. Yeah. Yeah. Um, you know, for me, when I, when I took that transition and I was looking around, [00:23:00] uh, so one, our school is what I call a age specific meaning or age specific programming. So, um, I've been doing some research. I was teaching, you know, like I said, my son was six when he came back to, or when I started teaching again, and it wasn't.
The same as what I recall teaching six year olds when I was 19 years old. And, uh, things weren't, weren't working well. So I started doing some research and I came across a lady in, um, a lady in Florida by the name of, uh, melody. At that time it was Melody Schumann. Now it's Melody Johnson. And she, uh, runs skills.
And, um, it is, I, I took a lot of what Melody was talking about, the heart, and it was really about teaching younger kids, uh, you know, the physical, intellectual, emotional, social stages of development, [00:24:00] uh, area. And, um, you know, when, when kids go to school, you don't put grade one and grade four kids in the same class.
Right, physically, intellectually, emotionally, socially, they're not at the same stage of life. So we decided, or I decided that my programs would be based on age categories. So a lot of schools, and it might just be because of time or you know, whatever other reasons. You know, they put their 7, 8, 9, 10, 11, 12 year olds together, right?
Uh, and again, the 7-year-old can't do what a 12-year-old can do. So we decided, I decided that my school would be an age specific school. So we have a class for three and four year olds, five and 6-year-old, seven to nine year olds, 10 to 13 year olds, 14 and above, and specifically so that each of those age groups can have a program that is appropriate.
For where they find themselves at their stage of life. That [00:25:00] was the single best decision, um, programming wise I ever made, ever. Our school right now is probably at about 300 students in my three, four, and five, 6-year-old category. We have a hundred kids, uh, and we start again coming up on the 11th of April.
I checked my numbers yesterday and I think we're at about 110 kids registered in those two age groups together. Uh, our seven to 9-year-old, we have been sold out. There's no space on the mat for anymore. We're over a hundred kids in that program as well. Our 10 to 13 is full. Um, you know, we have space.
Our, our, our adults, uh, are probably our least busy class, but the, uh, adult intermediate program probably has 30 people in it. Because they all graduated from the 10th to 13-year-old program, [00:26:00] and now they're all teenagers. And so now they're in that group. But, you know, people are list, people are listening.
That's, that was the single best decision I ever made. And, um, and taking those lessons from, uh, melody Johnson and the skills program, um, you know, really took it to another level.
Riley: That's pretty cool that, um. You're, because you're quite a few years into this, when you learn that, right, it's, uh,
Steven Hiscoe: Yeah.
Riley: I think sometimes people go into a business and they, they have this kind of idea in their head that we're gonna do it this way, but then after some time you really get a better feel for what the, what the business needs.
Right. What, what talked about dividing by age group was a big deal for you. But there's a lot of things I remember, I ha I own a company that's, uh, mobile oil changes, right? And we take trucks out to the job sites and we change oil out there on site. And it's a, it's a good business. But it took me a while to figure [00:27:00] out what my customer really was.
You know, I was two years into it before I was, had really narrowed it down to that place was like, no, these are the people who benefit the most from what I do. Here's how
Steven Hiscoe: Yeah.
Riley: to 'em. And, and this other group of people, I'm just gonna have to tell 'em no. 'cause they don't really fit. And that's, that's a, I think sometimes a hard pill to swallow.
And you gotta tell people know, right?
[00:28:00]
Steven Hiscoe: Yeah, absolutely. Absolutely. And, um, you know, coming back to being coachable, right? Is, you know, yeah, I've been doing martial arts and teaching for such a long time, but, you know, taking those black belt blinders off, right? It, it, it has to be this way because this is what I want. I want my school to be like this.
I, I had heard people before saying, I'm not teaching kids. I'm only gonna teach adults. That's not a school that's gonna last very long. Right. And, um, in my opinion anyways, so, you know, taking that concept and, and using the concept in the format and putting my own spin on it and putting my content into, [00:29:00] you know, what I thought, um, you know, again, was just kind of one of those aha, you know, moments that pushed my business at that point to the next level.
Riley: It's fascinating to me because you, you'd really do have to say sometimes like, well, I thought this was what my ideal customer was, but as I'm exploring what the community wants, I found this place where, like you're saying in your case, classes are, are the bread and butter of what you're doing.
Steven Hiscoe: Yeah, I, I think if you're gonna run a business, you know, yes, you have a product, but what does it, what does the community want, right? Because if it's, if it's what I want, not everybody wants the same thing that I want. So sometimes I think we need to adjust to, like you said, what, what is our customer, right?
And what are they looking for? And then how can I provide that, you know, to [00:30:00] them.
Riley: Yeah. That's amazing man. So I'm impressed. 300 students, uh, people who don't know it. 300 students in a, in a martial arts school is quite a lot. That's a, that's a pretty healthy achievement. When as you were growing through this and you were kinda learning what your customer was, there had to be those, those times you got this, say, seven to nine year olds, right? But early on, you don't have that many seven to nine year olds. And so what did you do to cross that goalie until you had enough students to really divide that up?
Steven Hiscoe: You know what? I divided it up right at the right at the beginning. And, um, you know, when I decided that was the way we were gonna go and then just started building at it. The, the great thing here, like for somebody who's listening, you know, September, [00:31:00] January, like the big sort of, uh, intake, uh, months, right?
So I don't always have to look for new seven year olds every September. Because I got a bunch of six year olds that are gonna become seven, and I'm not always looking for a bunch of 10 year olds. 'cause I, I have a bunch of nine year olds that are gonna turn 10. Right. So the great thing about this age specific program is especially if you have kids that stay with you multiple years, they're gonna go through many of these programs.
And, uh, so I've really been seeing that lately. I have a couple of, uh, teenage black belts, um, Logan and Grayson and uh, they started when they were five and they're 19 now. They're still with me. They're help teach classes. I have other kids, same thing that started in the five, now they're in the 10 to 13-year-old program.[00:32:00]
They've become mentors for other kids in the school. They're part of our leadership team. Um, so really trying to, you know, guide them so that when they get to be those black belts, then we have new instructors and whatnot. So, you know, that, that really kind of helped. But where the, where the big change happened was when I retired from the RCMP, because when I was working, you know, uh, I was lucky.
I had a straight day job for the last 17 years in my career. So my classes were at night and I would work during the day. So when I went, um, to that job, I worked at our provincial training academy, and I went there as an instructor. Then I was a supervisor, manager, senior manager. I was responsible for all the use of force training programs for the n firearms programs for the RCMP and the providence of British Columbia.
And I had about 60 instructors [00:33:00] below me that were responsible for delivering the training. So I would work from seven to three, and then I would go to the dojo at nighttime. But it didn't give me time to build my business. It didn't give me time to work in my, or work on my business. I was constantly, as they say, working in the business and I'm still working in the business, but now I have also time to work on the business.
And that's where the, that's where the big shift happened is when I, I retired, uh, I had one seven to 9-year-old beginner class. Now I have two, and both of them are full at 30 kids per, uh, per class. And this is where, like I said, the big change was, um. When you don't know, you don't know. Right. When you don't know how to progress or move forward.
It doesn't matter if it's, I don't know how to do Brazilian juujitsu. You go find a teacher. I don't know how to do this. You [00:34:00] go find somebody to teach you. I didn't know how to grow my business. There's a lot of people out there, right. Um, you see them online, Facebook, that kind of stuff. I found a, a company called Seven Figure Dojo, and, um, I liked what I heard.
I signed up with them a lot of great information, and that's really where things started to progress and, and build my business. They looked after my Facebook ads, but, uh, and then, you know, they, they, the difference that they teach you, you still gotta do the work. There's no magic. There's no magic pill, right.
It, it's not, you know, I think there's a lot of companies out there where it's like, we'll get you all these leads. So they get you all the leads, but what do you do with them? Right? How do you convert those leads into students? How do you keep them, how do you onboard them? And that's what I really liked about this, [00:35:00] um, this company, is that when I first started, they assign you a coach and they hold you accountable.
All right, here's what you need to do, and then follow through. So that's really where things started to, to make a big difference.
Riley: So when you say they hold you accountable, what kind of things are happening there?
Steven Hiscoe: Um, so when I first started with them, um, you know, so we go back, uh, um, uh, a little bit. How do school owners bring new students into their school? Right? Is uh, I used to, you know, have the cheap offer, right? Like four weeks for 49, 99 and a free uniform and, you know, all of these gimmicky type of, um, of, um.
You know, trying to get people through the door type of thing. So what the, what I do now is I give any potential new students 30 to 45 minutes [00:36:00] of my time. So it's kind of like, uh, why do parents want their kids in martial arts, confidence, discipline? Maybe they're being bullied. So think of yourself as a, a doctor.
When you go to a doctor's office for a consultation, they diagnose what's happening with you and then they give you recommendations. So I do the same thing. So when a parent comes in with their child, I try and diagnose, why are you here? Why do you wanna be part of my school? What's happening? Why do you want, you know, little Johnny to be, uh, here?
So they tell you, and then you kind of dive in a little bit deeper to find out are there any root causes or, you know, when they say he needs more confidence, well. Then you look at the policing side of stuff. What do you mean by that? Right? You dig, dig deeper, ask more questions. Well, you know, whenever we go out, he is hiding behind my leg.
Or, uh, you know, when he is, he has a hard time making friends. [00:37:00] He's always looking at the floor. So it kind of gives you a little bit of an idea of what's happening, right? So then it gives me an opportunity to, um, explain who I am, what my school is all about, what my background is about, show them why they should belong to your school.
Then I get on the mat, I do a lesson, then I sit down and I let them know why we did what we did. I'm getting to the, uh, accountability part. Uh,
Riley: No. Great.
Steven Hiscoe: Okay,
Riley: Keep going. Yeah.
Steven Hiscoe: so, uh, when, when don't we sit down? So let's say it's a 7-year-old. Okay. Um, I have pool noodles, I have focus mitts. So I'll get them in their defensive stance and I say, you know what this is?
Yeah. Pool noodle. I whack 'em on the head and instead, did that hurt? No. Good. 'cause I'm gonna whack you in the side of the head with it. So we'll do, you know, show them how to block and then we'll do it and then I'll ask them. Um, you know, should we, was that pretty easy? Oh yeah. Should we make it harder? Uh, [00:38:00] okay, so now I said I'll be tricky.
You don't know what side it's coming from. So now I'll switch up the sides. Was that pretty easy? Yes. Okay. I'm gonna go faster this time. So the example there is that when I sit with the parents, and if we just use that example, it looks like I'm just whacking him and he's putting his hand up, right? But what I tell the parents is that's a, a, a focus and concentration exercises, a spatial awareness exercise, and it's a reaction time exercise.
So we show them how to block, right? And then I ask them an emotional question, should we make it harder? I wanna see if the child is willing to accept a challenge without knowing really what does harder mean? So now I'm gonna be tricky. You don't know what side it's coming from. Now we need more focus, more concentration, right?
And then when we go faster, now we're looking at reaction time, right? The spatial awareness part is [00:39:00] where do they, or when do they put their hand up? Do they not realize and they get hit. Do they put their hand up in anticipation that it's gonna be on that side, and then you hit 'em on that side, or in kind of that sweet spot as it's coming?
They get their hand up. So when you're talking to the parents now, they're like, there's a lot more going on here than just doing this. Right? When we're doing our open hand strikes, for me with the seven to nine year olds, I get them to go back off using their words. So when I am sitting with the parents, I'm telling them I want them to start advocating for themselves.
I have kids that'll be like back off. And then I have other kids that are like lions, right? So I want them to start getting their words out, back off, stop. No, leave me alone. Don't talk to me like that. So now the parents are seeing this as way more than [00:40:00] just an activity to fill time. Remember when we're diagnosing that child's problem or issue at the beginning, this is where I'm coming from with my free consultation.
When the wanna join our school, nobody can just sign up online and show up. Everybody goes through this consultation and um, you know, then it gives me that opportunity then to sell them after the fact. So our pillars of success, uh, mentorship, goal setting, and accountability. So we'll talk about that. So when I was talking about accountability with the company earlier is this is all things that they taught me how to do.
Then they wanted me to, you need to do a video of you doing that sales presentation and then send it back to us. So now they can gimme feedback on [00:41:00] my performance. Right? So I had one of my students come in and we role played a, a whole sort of 30 minute sales presentation type of thing. And then I sent it back to them and then they were able to kinda give me feedback on those things.
Um, you know, if it's about keeping track of your metrics. You know, so, uh, when I have kind of my monthly meeting with them, they're always asking, you know, okay, what are your metrics looking like? How many people have you come in? Are you keeping track of this and this and this and this? Um, so yeah, so for me that, that was a big piece, having somebody kind of holding me accountable when I first started and getting into the habit of working, uh, on my business.
Riley: You, you've gone over quite a lot there, which is, know, again, down to a system, down to this, the video is fascinating to me that you would send the video back so they could give you, [00:42:00] critique you on that because that's, I think we don't, see what we see. We think we're doing a great job in a presentation, and we don't realize the, maybe the order of what we're doing something here, the way our voice inflection is, or the, you know, we're, we're screwing this whole thing up and with, without somebody else there to give us some feedback.
Sometimes we just have, you mentioned black belt blinders earlier. You know, we have blinders on and sometimes we just don't know it. And hearing yourself on recording is always, it's always an adventure, right? I think it takes a certain level of humility to even put yourself out there, but then to go back and listen to yourself talk sometimes is a, that's a hurdle to get overall on its own.
Steven Hiscoe: Mm-hmm. Yeah, absolutely.
Riley: You mentioned Steve earlier, that we shouldn't necessarily judge our business by its gross revenue, but by its net its profit margin. Can you go into that a little bit?
Steven Hiscoe: Keeping track of [00:43:00] your expenses, right? Like. Um, you know, if you're bringing in 50,000, you know, as an example, uh, 50 k, uh, a month, but your expenses are through the roof, you're not really making a whole bunch, right? So I think sometimes, um, I can't remember the expression that they used, but yeah, I, I look at my gross and I'm like, Hey, we're doing super awesome.
But then when I look at my expense side of the house, uh, that's not so awesome, right? So really kind of paying attention to what your, you know, your, your profit is rather than just what your, your gross is. So that's kind of where I was coming, uh, coming from with that.
Riley: I've seen that, you know, in business, and I've, I've sat down with business owners over the years, and I, I, work with a lot of 'em. They're my clientele base and both of my companies, right. A huge percentage of my clientele base is, is these business owners. And I'll, you know, because we both own [00:44:00] companies, we'll sit down for lunch and then that's what we talk about.
That's the subject matter, right? And sometimes I'm a shoulder to cry on, you know, sometimes I'm the guy who they're celebrating with, but sometimes it's like, man, I, I remember a conversation with a guy and he was, he was doing 10 times the amount of business we were doing in gross number, but we had the same profit margin. And the amount of time and money and, you know, one little error, error in the size of his company could have erased that profit margin completely. And that was an eyeopening thing for me because it looked on the outside, because his gross number was so high that he was doing really well, but he wasn't, you know, it was, he was scraping by.
And so I think that's an important thing because, you know, what would you say having a good profit margin allows you as a business owner to do better?
Steven Hiscoe: Great question. Uh, I think one it. You know, lets me service my students a [00:45:00] little bit. Um, you know, things like when we have a, an event such as, uh, you know, mostly for the kids, Halloween parties, Christmas parties, you know, sort of giving back to our student base type of thing. If we're, if we're not profitable, um, you know, you, you can't offer a lot of that kind of stuff to your students.
You're always charging, charging, charging, charging. And I think at some point, parents, because for me, I do charge a premium price for my school, or at least I think I'm a premium price in, in our area. But I also try not to nickel and dime my, uh, you know, my students every time they're, they're coming in or there's something more, something more, something more.
Um, you know, so having a good profit margin allows for that. Um, you know, I, I, yeah, I, I think that's one of the thing. And then the other part is. Travel for me. You know, I, I travel to different parts of [00:46:00] Canada for, you know, hosting camps or teaching in other places and stuff like that. So, you know, it allows me a little bit of, uh, freedom to be able to, to travel and have that, um, oxygen, I heard it called once is, uh, oxygen in my business so that I can, I can breathe.
Um, one of the other parts is, uh, is marketing, right? Like Facebook ads and, and that kind of stuff. And that was a whole other piece that I got from working with Seven Figure Dojo was even just my pricing structure or moving from membership base to program based. And, uh, and I, I tell people I have a membership at the local gym.
Like, I was there this morning, but I haven't been there for a month and a half and, um, while I'm working through some little minor injuries and stuff, but they never [00:47:00] phoned to find out, Hey Steve, we haven't seen you in a month and a half. They debit my credit card and you know, they take my money. So I used to have a membership based, um, school.
Now I've moved to a program based school. When somebody belongs to a program, let's say you are going to university or college and you're in a program, there's an expectation that you show up for your classes and at the end of the program. There's an outcome. You get a diploma, right? You get a certificate, you get whatever you've completed that program.
So this was one of the other areas that, um, that I I, that helped change my business was moving to this program based. So, as an example, uh, when somebody comes in and we've run that kind of little sales, uh, consultation, then I sell them on my program. And my [00:48:00] program, we just call it a foundation program.
That's the white to yellow belt program, and it's four months. Um. So the expectation is that at the end of that four months, they're gonna have a test and they're gonna be a yellow belt if they pass the test, but they gotta make their classes the pricing structure on the membership side. So when somebody used to come in, they would say, well, how much is it?
And I would say it's $170 a month. Great. So now that's out the window. So now I have two different options. One is a paid in full option, one is a monthly option. So you can pay for the four months upfront, or you can have a down payment and then three monthly payments and that will get you to the end of your four months.
The, uh, my revenue when I started doing that went this way. [00:49:00] Because now I was getting an influx of money right on the first payment, which then helped me be able to fund my marketing, uh, and Facebook ads and whatever other marketing strategies I have going on to get that, those leads in the door. Whereas before, and then I was explaining this to one of my, um, school colleagues, school owner colleagues not too long ago, who had registered, let's say, you know, 10 people.
So you take those 10 people at your membership rate per month, it's gonna add up to this. But if you take those 10 people and they pay in full or even impartial, but in full for that four months, here's what your revenue is going to be, right? So that, that made a huge difference, uh, in my business model as well.
Riley: Yeah, that's an interesting thing. So if you, just outta curiosity, have a student who's going through the four month program, say from, [00:50:00] from white to yellow, and they're
Steven Hiscoe: They're just not putting it
Riley: right? What, what
Steven Hiscoe: down.
Riley: What's the,
Steven Hiscoe: Well, a conversa, we'll have a conversation with the parents, right. And, um, and a conversation with the child and whatnot. And, you know, when they get to the end of the four months, you know, they're not gonna test. We're gonna keep working with them until they're ready to, you know, to, to go through.
Right. And, um, for me it doesn't happen very often. Uh, I tell parents, look, I'm a firm instructor. When it's time to be on the mat, it's time to work. And it doesn't matter if you're seven or 10 or 70, it's time to work when we're on the mat. And if we work hard then we'll have fun. But one has to come before the other, the other piece that, um.
You know, running a, running a school like this, you have to be professional in every aspect, right? So [00:51:00] the other part that when we're talking about being firm on the mat and whatnot, is, um, what sets our school apart from a lot of schools is we run a lesson plan system. Kind of like, so again, when I'm talking to the parents and we're talking about goal setting, um, so one of the things that sets us apart is we run a lesson plan system, which means that kind of like going to school, we're not gonna wing it, right?
When your child comes in to class, we know exactly what we're teaching that night and we know exactly what drills we're gonna do, and then we know what we're doing the next day and we know what drills we're gonna do. So everything is laid out for that 45 minute class that they're gonna have. 'cause one of the comments that I get from many parents who have either been in other schools or who are shopping around is, um.
That a lot of schools are not organized and when they go to watch it's mass chaos on the mat and [00:52:00] everybody is running around and you know, there's no structure. So for me, uh, that's one thing, especially from the policing background and working at the police academy. You don't get up in front of the class to teach unless you have a lesson plan.
And, uh, so that is another area that's really taken us, you know, above where all the other, excuse me, schools in our area are, is having that structure. So when people come in, you know, the kids come in, they bow, they get on the mat, they know where they're gonna sit. When we start class, we know exactly what we're gonna be doing.
And then when I talk to the parents, we need to do that. So we keep them on track. 'cause in four months they have a test. And if we're not covering everything. They won't know what they need to know, uh, for their test, and that's our fault. Right. Because if the teacher hasn't taught it, the student hasn't learned it.
So we need to make sure that we are teaching what we need them to learn.
Riley: That's a good quote. [00:53:00] Man. Teacher hasn't taught it. The student hasn't learned it. That's, uh,
Steven Hiscoe: Yeah.
Riley: seems so obvious, but yet so easy to
Steven Hiscoe: Or you can, or you can flip it around. If the student doesn't know it, it's because we didn't teach it. Right? Yeah.
Riley: For sure, for sure. Steve with, uh, delegation, so. As in any business, a time it takes for a person to become proficient in that skill, whatever it happens to be, they can start to replicate and teach others that skill. Right? So whether you're a welder or a plumber, we have, you know, plumbing, electricians, we have this journeyman term, right?
But that's what that represents is the education, the time it takes to become good at something. What's the
Steven Hiscoe: the timeframe?
Riley: in your world, before you can take a student and make them an instructor?
[00:54:00] [00:55:00]
Steven Hiscoe: Yeah, so typically I, I don't have like full-blown instructors unless they're at least black belts. Um, so a lot different than I think the BJJ world, right? Uh, so that's at least three years, uh, before they're getting to that black belt level. And again, I know that's different from the BJJ world. Um, so I do have some guys, girls that are teaching classes, uh, and they're black belts, but we also start them within kind of that 10 to 13-year-old, uh, once they get to that intermediate.
So probably 12, 13 years old, uh, in our mentorship program. So we call it our, our elite program. And um, and then we try and devise. A program for them. So, you know, things like being a, um, uh, an [00:56:00] equipment specialist, if you want to call it that. So how do you hold pads, right? Or how do you hold a shield for them to kick?
Or how do you use the pool noodles? Right? So all kind of the equipment that they would use with students, because again, if they're teaching, we want them not just to know how to hold the pads, but look at the student who is performing the technique and be able to diagnose what corrections you need to provide them.
So if their hands are dropping down, you need to recognize that if their foot is not in the right position when they're kicking, you need to recognize that if they're not standing in a proper stance, you need to recognize that. So we will have little mini seminars. For our, um, assistant instructors or those volunteers that are coming up on how to do those things.
And, you know, again, it's something that we're trying to formalize and work through that process. But having [00:57:00] like sign offs, being able to have a, uh, sign them off, watching them in class perform, those kind of things. So when I first came up, you know, when I was 14, 15, 16, it was really just being on the mat and watching your instructor do what they were doing.
And then hopefully, you know, you picked it up from them. I got really good at being my instructor's partner. You know, I wanna say I could read his mind if he said something, I knew what was coming next or, you know, those kind of things. So I kind of learned it on the fly. But now being able to have, uh, a proper.
Structured program for them to come through? Uh, I think especially being a, a full-time business and where do I want my business to try and go? I want to be able to get to the point where I'm not teaching 25 hours a week. Where now I'm looking out through the instructors and they're [00:58:00] teaching the classes.
Riley: So when we're talking about the kind of the, the mentorship program and the, the skill level required to be able to teach a class, because you know, there's, but, but delegation is not all about that person's skill level. So what character traits do you look for in delegation?
Steven Hiscoe: So one I look for when they're on the mat, are they serious about their own training? Right. Um, I just had this discussion with some of my students the other day. It's not a social club. Right. When the. When, when we bow and we start class, like you need to take it seriously. We need to be working hard. Um, so, you know, do they show up on time?
Are they punctual? Uh, when I'm teaching, are they paying attention or are they, you know, often la, la land type of thing. Um, you know, do they have some level of [00:59:00] skill like performing their own techniques and, and things of that nature? What is their demeanor like? Are they just nice kids? Right? And, uh, do they, you know, when they are speaking to you, do they look at you?
It's something I, I, I struggle with a lot of kids now when they, you know, we talk about focus and focus with their eyes. I, I think everything is written in the sky now because when you're talking to somebody, they're, they're looking up or they're looking everywhere, but looking at you. So do they have that, you know, do they have that presence that they can, you know, look at you?
And we'll start with simple things like warmups, right? Is like, we'll call somebody up and go, okay, warm up the class. So they've been there two, three years. They should know how to, you know, run a warmup or at least know what exercises to do or to warm up rather than getting up there and going, ah, what am I gonna do?
Right? You've been doing warmups for two [01:00:00] years, but you're on that side now you're on this side. So kinda looking at that. Maturity level a little bit.
Riley: Uh. Do you guys do anything in the realm of like background checks, that sort of a thing for you're, you're kind of in a where you've known your students for a long time, though, before
Steven Hiscoe: Yeah.
Riley: but
Steven Hiscoe: With some of the adults, we do background checks, like police background checks. It's, uh, sometimes a requirement if I'm gonna go teach at a community center, um, you know, they're gonna want to, they want a, a background check or a police background check type of thing. Um, I don't do a ton of it. Like with my teenagers, I don't ask them to go in to the police station.
But my other adult, uh, instructor who helps me with the kids program, he's gone through a police record check and whatnot, so,
Riley: Yeah. Yeah. I think that's a thing to that, you know, different
Steven Hiscoe: [01:01:00] okay.
Riley: different needs, right? And when you're working directly with kids, especially, becomes pretty necessary, right?
Steven Hiscoe: Yeah.
Riley: Um. As the the owner and the leader. When you're, when you come upon this thing where you have to cast a vision for your crew, what kind of things are important there, do you think, to motivate the other instructors and the students for that matter?
Steven Hiscoe: So one of the visions, you know, just going through this the other day is, um, what do we want our students to become? Right? So it was, the conversation we had was if somebody asked you what you do, right? Well, I teach martial arts, and then the response typically will be something like, what? They'll kind of do that.
Bruce Lee kinda, oh, you're a karate guy, or whatever. Right.
Riley: Yeah.
Steven Hiscoe: uh, and, and the vision that I have, like [01:02:00] what do I want my students to become? What do I help them become? I help them become confident. I help them build, uh, character and leadership. And I, um, sorry, I'm blanking on my last question. And, uh, and, and that character and leadership and, uh, sort of that, that, that confidence, right?
Those are the kind of things that we, so we had a meeting with our kids the other day and it was like, what brought you here and how do you think the school has helped you? Right. So I do have some students who, you know, same thing. They wouldn't talk to me for almost like a year when they were in. In class, uh, or they're very shy now.
They're in that elite program. They're, they're leading warmups. They're teaching little chunks of the class. They're getting on their hands and knees and helping other kids. So when I [01:03:00] can sit down with them and say, where you were and where you are, that's our vision for all the other students that are here.
So put yourself back in the position of the, the student that's there, and then how are we gonna help them? Right? So that's kind of the vision that I have for my school is what am I gonna help my students become? Right? And then, like I said, casting that vision is just letting them see, look, when you come in, Mackenzie, Grayson, you know, Rayla, whoever the, the student is when you first came in.
Uh, and I recall like. You were like so shy and if anybody looked at you, you wouldn't do your techniques or whatnot. And now look at you. You're leading classes, you're doing good in school. You know, those kind of things. So when you look at the other students that are on the mat, you need to see [01:04:00] yourself standing there seven years ago and how are we gonna help that child be where you are today?
And then I've seen it in them where, you know, kids will have a little mini breakdown on the mat 'cause they, you know, can't do a technique or whatnot. And they'll go over, they'll be on their, you know, they'll be on their knees next to the child. And there was even once where I overheard one of my mentors talking to one of the kids and go, you know what?
I was just like you. Right. Like, so you know. Comparing themselves to where they are. So now that child can go, yeah, but you're like a junior black belt. Now you're doing this and this. And it's like, yeah, but I was, I was you. Right.
Riley: When it, when it comes to this vision casting thing, sometimes hear business business owners say, you know, I just feel like a [01:05:00] broken record. You know, I should just have to say something once and it should stick forever. Talk about that a little bit, man. Is that, uh, how often do you have to repeat yourself and
Steven Hiscoe: You know,
Riley: vision?
Steven Hiscoe: we, and even, it's not even just vision sometimes. It's um, well, yes, I guess it is. So Saturday mornings, Saturday is reserved for our three and four and our five and six year olds. So we have three 30 minute classes for three year olds, and then 3 45 minute classes for the five and six year olds.
And we have. Seven or eight mentors that come and help with those classes. And they age from, uh, 12 all the way to 19. And they work as a team. So when the kids come in, like any business, they should be greeted at the door within 30 seconds of them walking in the door, right? So, uh, and I want them to [01:06:00] know the kids' names, right?
Because kids look up to other kids, I want them to know their name. We have little white tape on the mat where the kids need to sit. So everybody is orderly. And uh, what happens is some kids come in, you know, 10 minutes early. So they go and they sit on the mat and they're there by themselves. When I have six or seven of my mentors all standing around the front door chitchatting, it's like, Hey guys, you know, we're, we're here to build connection.
So go and sit with the kids, ask them about their day or you know, whatever it might be, right? But go and get to know them. So what happens the next week? They're excited to come and see Miss Isabelle and Ms. Rela and Mr. Carter and you know, miss Mackenzie. But if you guys aren't building those connections, it's really [01:07:00] maybe sometimes difficult for the parents to get them to the school.
They're three years old, they're four years old, right? So, but if we can help build those connections, that's gonna go a long way. So I think when I'm vision casting and I'm talking about those things. Specifically kind of in that circumstance, that's one of the things that I'm repeating myself, you know, a lot on and remembering that they're 14 years old, they're 15 years old, right?
They maybe don't see it in the, in the same way, but trying to get them to, to see that, right? Trying to get them to see that, hey, if you're doing a great job doing this, there's other opportunities coming up, right? You move up to being an assistant instructor or give you more responsibility. But we gotta start with, you know, with the basics
Riley: That's interesting because you've got students, you're teaching the martial arts to art, to, but you've also got [01:08:00] students who you're raising up with a business mentality and teaching 'em how to interact in that level that's gonna carry on the rest of their lives. Right? And so it, you're, this
Steven Hiscoe: training department.
Riley: Hey, I'm teaching you how to punch somebody in the face.
I'm, I'm also teaching you
Steven Hiscoe: Yeah,
Riley: yourself.
Steven Hiscoe: so going back to that helping, uh, trans, helping them be the best versions that of themselves that they can be. Right. And that's really where we're trying to get them to be. And um, you know, like yesterday I got an, an email from a, a parent who, her son's been with us since 2022. And, uh, like discipline and responsibility training at the Dojo has instilled a sense of discipline in him.
He takes his practice seriously, manages his time effectively. He's more responsible with his chores at home. You know, confidence. Uh, Easton has become more confident in trying new activities, speaking up in group settings. The newfound confidence has encouraged [01:09:00] him to take on leadership rules in his school projects.
So, and that's kind of one of the things that we want. The parents that understand is what we're doing at the Dojo is not a Dojo thing, it's a life thing, right? It's not just an activity. I want them to be the best version of themselves in and outta the school. So yeah.
Riley: There's something else that's kind of popping up here, um, that I, I don't know how to articulate this. Well, your customer is the kiddos, but it's not the kiddos, it's the parents. Right? It's, it's this, it's this, um, it, the person you're selling is the parents, the person you're trying to, um, make an impression on through the kiddo is the parents, right?
It's a, but it's easy to lose focus of that sometimes, right? Is of who's, who's the person [01:10:00] there that you're, you're pouring into these kids. You're growing them into better people, into more confident people. But the one you're really trying to impress is the parents, right. In the, in hindsight, so
Steven Hiscoe: How do you
Riley: how do you,
Steven Hiscoe: they, they're the ones with the wallet, right?
Riley: what I'm saying, is not exactly accurate.
You are trying to impress the kid too. So it's a, but it's, who's the, who's
Steven Hiscoe: Well,
Riley: person there that
Steven Hiscoe: yeah,
Riley: maker, and we've gotta make sure to include them.
Steven Hiscoe: exactly right. So yeah. When we do the one-on-one, like I'm selling to the parent, I'm not selling to the child, right? Is I want them to see this is what the, this is what training here is gonna help your child become, right. It's kinda hard when I tell 'em, look, those two boys on the wall, they started when they were five years old.
They're 19. They're teaching classes, they're in university, they're working. They're amazing. The parents that we have want their kids to be like them, right? Or to be like Ms. McKenzie or Mr. Carter, [01:11:00] you know, like the other mentors type of thing. And that's why we start with four months. 'cause it's so far to, so hard to see farther down the road.
But once they sort of get in and they see that, but you're absolutely right, you gotta sell to the decision maker, which is the parent. But here's one of the, kind of the tricky parts when I'm doing the one-on-one is that I think parents have lost. What's the, well, I, I use it this way. I say to the parents, if I can be honest for a minute.
Right. I think the tail is wagging the dog right now. So you've come in and, uh, you're telling me that your child struggles with confidence or focus or discipline or whatever it may be. So when we've done everything and they say something like, um, well, I'll ask them if it's something they wanna do, right?
I'll ask them if, if they had a good time, [01:12:00] is this something you wanna do? So my next response to them is, if you don't do this. So if you recall when we first started talking, you said that little Johnny had no confidence, or he lacked confidence or lacked discipline, or he was anxious and he wasn't able to do all of these things.
So if you don't do this, what are you gonna do to help him? How's he gonna become confident? How's he going to become less anxious? Right? So if you're saying that, you're gonna ask him if he wants to do that, it's kind of like going to the doctor's office and you say, my child has this condition, right? And the doctor go, yep, yep.
We've diagnosed it and this is what the issue is. And you need to give your child this medicine. Well, I'll ask him if he wants to. I'll ask him if he wants to take that medicine. Right? No, you're gonna make the [01:13:00] decision and the child is gonna get better, right? So it's kind of the same idea. And I, and I flat out will say that to a parent, look, can I be honest for a minute, right?
If you don't do this, how's he gonna become more confident? Like, what are you gonna do to help 'em with that confidence? 'cause that's why you're here. That's what you told me at the beginning. Right. And uh, so sometimes it would be like, yeah, you're right. And I'll say, look, I did not want to take swimming lessons when I was a kid.
I hated swimming lessons. I screamed at swimming lessons. But my parents knew that I needed to learn how to swim 'cause it's a life skill. I went to swimming lessons. Right now I can swim. So if you're not gonna do this, how are you gonna help your child get better? Right. And um, so yeah, so I think sometimes parents have lost the focus that they're the parent [01:14:00] and uh, you know, they just want to please their child rather than doing something for their child that is going to benefit them in the long run.
Riley: Man. That's well said, man. That, that analogy of would you give them medicine if they need it to make 'em take it even though it doesn't taste good, you know, that's, uh, no, we give 'em the medicine, right? We do the thing. We do the right thing as a parent instead of the
Steven Hiscoe: And I, and I think that's where, and I, and I think, you know, maybe that's the difference in some martial arts schools is, you know, the approach that you take to what your program is. Right? I'm not a competition school. We don't go to competitions, you know, we don't train for competition. You know, if you want to think, I guess maybe a little bit more character development, self-defense based, um, you know, those kind of things.
So that's my. That's my lane, right? And, uh, being able to, [01:15:00] to know my, my lane and being able to kind of do that for my students. So for other schools, you know, maybe it is just an activity the full-time and, you know, maybe they don't, uh, they don't talk about the benefits that training in martial arts. You know, maybe they don't talk as much about the benefits.
Whereas for me, yeah, when parents come in, I want them to know what the benefits are because it has, it's had great benefit. On my own personal life,
Riley: Steve, when you deal with conflict in your business, when you've got an instructor who's being a Turkey or a, or a student that's just dragging their feet and or, or being at cancer in the in the school, talk about that a bit. How do you handle that?
Steven Hiscoe: I've been lucky we haven't had very many of those situations. Um, but we'll have a little sit down face to face [01:16:00] and, um, you know, let them know that that behavior isn't tolerated. Um, you know, or, or appropriate because, you know, a lot of people maybe haven't grown up in a martial arts school, or they don't know the etiquette of being in a school, or, um, we have co-ed classes, excuse me.
Maybe they, they don't know the, you know, and sometimes it's just an education piece. So being able to kind of sit down with them and say, look, um, this is what I've noticed, not tolerated, you know, if it continues, then, uh, one, it's my school. So I, I can terminate, you know, I can make a decision not to train you anymore and not to have you as a, a student in my school.
Um, so, you know, this behavior needs to, you know, this behavior needs to change type of thing. I haven't had very many conflict with parents, I can't think of in the last [01:17:00] 15 years in this location that I'm in now, where I've had kind of that, you know, uh, a conflict with a parent about how their child's been treated or, you know, anything like that.
Um, so it doesn't happen. Yeah, it doesn't happen very often, but I think being able to kinda, you know, have kind of that difficult conversation, bring them into the office, maybe have another instructor there. Um, you know, so, you know, it's not a he said she said type of thing, and, but there's, you know, more than one person there.
And being able to kind of just have that polite but firm conversation with them.
Riley: I think what you just said about having the hard conversation, be willing to do that. Right. And you, you described it as you're taking that one person who's the offender aside and having the conversation with them, not making some company-wide policy to address this one person. Uh, I think
Steven Hiscoe: Right.
Riley: a mistake when people do that.
[01:18:00]
Riley: Right.
Steven Hiscoe: Yeah. I mean, you know what? There's some times where, um, the whole class needs to hear about something, you know,
Riley: Sure.
Steven Hiscoe: give you an example. Uh, and it's one, you know, maybe not exactly the same thing, but it, you know, I had a, I had a lady training with us [01:19:00] and she, amazing lady, but she was like 80 years old.
And she was doing hip throws and she wanted to be thrown and like she was a green belt. Like she had worked her way up to being a green belt. She described herself as a, a tough old bird. And uh, and you know, we love having her in the school, but I think it was wasn't too far, uh, timeline from, you know, the big lawsuit that happened at the BJJ club, I think in, uh, California where one instructor maybe broke somebody's neck or something like that, like the black belt working with the white belt.
So, you know, I had to have a chat with the entire class and yes, it was maybe a because she wanted to do a certain throw or be thrown and are like, not gonna happen. You may want it to happen. You're 80. I can't let that happen because if you get hurt, it's on me. Right? [01:20:00] I need to be a responsible school owner.
So, although you may agree or want somebody to kind of flip you over their head type of thing, uh, not gonna happen. And, um, you know, so I had that conversation with the entire class, especially the advanced belts, because sometimes the advanced belts need to work with somebody lower, right? And getting them to understand that, look, you need to train at the level of the person that you're helping.
So yes, you may know how to do this kind of throw. They don't know how to land from that kind of throw so somebody could be seriously hurt. Um, so that was kind of like a, you know, conversation with everybody. And unfortunately, you know, the, my 80-year-old student kind of went, yeah, I get it. And then she ended up.
Quitting not too long after that because she, you know, didn't wanna put anybody in a bad [01:21:00] position type of thing. But I still see her. She comes into the dojo with cookies and and stuff every once in a while if we are having an event. She sent me an email the other day. She says, I wear my hisco jiujitsu t-shirt with pride when I go to the, uh, senior's home for, uh, you know, my activities and stuff like that.
And they're like, juujitsu, you did Juujitsu. I did Juujitsu. Right. And she was like 80 when she, uh, stopped, so Yeah.
Riley: That's amazing. That's, um, I mean, kudos to her for even starting a
Steven Hiscoe: Oh, yeah.
Riley: you know, around that age. And
Steven Hiscoe: Yeah. That's, that's like 77. Yeah.
Riley: I can just picture some 19-year-old kid with poor judgment throwing her and what a mess that could have been.
Steven Hiscoe: Yeah, yeah.
Riley: my gosh. Well, she said coach.
Steven Hiscoe: Right.
Riley: she told me to. Oh my gosh, Steve, uh, let's switch gears here.
Go some lighter questions and we will, [01:22:00] we'll, um, yeah. Kind of start to bring this to a conclusion, but we got a little time here. Uh, when you hear this is, I mean, this is called the Go In Your Salt podcast this year. I'm not sure what's, uh, what do you, what comes to mind when you hear that phrase Go in your salt?
Steven Hiscoe: You know, I think when I, when I read it and was kind of thinking about it, it to me, it's kind of like, you know, you, you gotta go make things happen for yourself. Right? That, that's my interpretation. I don't know if that's what it is, ri but for me it's kind of like you gotta go make things happen for yourself.
So it's not just gonna materialize and, and be there. And when I was talking about, you know, my business earlier and, uh, signing up with Seven Figure Dojo and you know, them kind of giving me the information to make my school sort of more profitable, I still gotta do the work at the end of the day, right?
I see a lot of Facebook ads where they're [01:23:00] like, we can get you leads, we can do this, we can do that. But at the end of the day, you gotta go convert them. You gotta put your, you know, your information together, you gotta sell them. Uh, you need to put your program together. You need to figure out what your community wants from you, not sometimes what you want to give to your community.
Right? It's kind of like, um, so to me that's kind of what it, it meant to me is like, go out and get it. And, um, so over the last couple of years, that's kind of what I've, I've tried to do. I have some, you know, school owner friends who, um, they teach their classes, you know, they work in the business, but they don't work on the business.
When I retired, uh, I was working 16 hours a day, like being at work and then going to the dojo at night. When I retired, I think that went down by maybe a couple of hours because I would, I, I [01:24:00] was still, because now you gotta work on your business. So I'd be at the Dojo at 10 o'clock in the morning on the phone calling the leads that came in overnight.
And that whole process, that's a whole other sort of, you know, thing that I learned from them. But, you know, being on the phone at 10 o'clock in the morning and making, you know, 10 phone calls for the leads that came in, and then booking appointments and then being on the mat at one o'clock in the afternoon and, you know, doing an appointment, appointment appointment type of thing.
So, um. It's the right thing to do to build a business and, and look after your sales and that kind of stuff, but you gotta go out and make it happen.
Riley: For sure, man. Gosh, good stuff. Steve, Steve, uh, outside of your business, what's, uh, what's your favorite pastime?
Steven Hiscoe: Good question. I don't think I have one. Uh, I, I would golf, but I haven't been on the golf course in. [01:25:00] You know, two, three years. Uh, I try and go to the gym in the, in the morning, just, you know, for my body and my brain type of thing. Um, winter is, winter is a bad season for me, especially here in British Columbia.
It's rainy, it's gray. I haven't been anywhere warm this year. Not a lot of vitamin D uh, so trying to, you know, trying to hit the gym to stay mentally strong and, and, you know, physical as well. I'm, I'm 57, I'm still active. I got little, you know, arthritis here and there, so just trying to, you know, keep my body moving.
'cause I got, you know, people to teach and, and be a role model for other people. Right. But I can't really say that I have a whole bunch of, uh, other pastimes really. If I'm reading, I'm reading about business. If I am doing some, like this morning before we came on. I was on chat, [01:26:00] GPT and uh, I had like a little caricature of my, uh, son when he was seven or eight, kind of in a, in a martial arts pose.
And he had blonde hair down to his waist until he was about 11 years old. So it's got big flowing hair. So I kind of punched that in there and I was like, um, what would this look like? Like, uh, an anime character. So I was like, oh, okay. That's pretty cool. So this morning I started working as like, um, it was funny because like, this is a great idea.
Nobody is doing this, da da da da, but creating a anime graphic novel book based on the dojo and kind of like an instructional one at the same time, right? So it's like we're learning this block, we're learning an this kick, we're learning this whole escape. We're learning a bear hug. But putting it into a, an anime story.
[01:27:00] So that's what I was kind of doing this morning is goofing off with, with different things like that.
Riley: kind of fun,
Steven Hiscoe: So yeah, so we'll see where it goes. And it's kind of, uh, you know, the first four months, that's what it's based on. Somebody comes in, here's your foundation program book number one, this is what you're doing.
So anyways,
Riley: That's cool as heck. Yeah, that's, that's really cool. What, uh, who, who's your favorite band of all time?
Steven Hiscoe: whoa. I'm a Billy Idol guy. Love Billy Idol, especially, uh, you know, when I was in, uh, high school, my locker was kind of like a Billy Idol shrine in there. Went to see him in concerts, still love his music. I was on the rower at the gym this morning. That's what I was listening to. So, yeah, I think that's kind of one of my, one of my favorites.
Riley: That's cool, man. cool. I was, uh, never too much of a fan until he did that. Was it, was it the, what was it called? The wedding planner?
Steven Hiscoe: Uh, yeah. A wedding singer or something. Yeah.[01:28:00]
Riley: wedding singer? Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. And his role in that movie was great, man. I, I kind of became a fan of, I was like, since it seems like a cool dude.
Steven Hiscoe: He still sounds great.
Riley: yeah. Steve, what, uh, what's something quirky about you that people don't know
Steven Hiscoe: Hmm. The people don't know, man. Um, I don't know. I like, uh, this is one toast with butter and ketchup.
Riley: that's quirky? Okay.
Steven Hiscoe: Yep.
Riley: butter and ketchup.
Steven Hiscoe: So if I, so if I'm at a restaurant having breakfast and I got a piece of toast left over, I'll put ketchup on it and then Yeah. Yeah.
Riley: That's basically tomato jam. Right.
Steven Hiscoe: Kind of, I was at a, I was at a restaurant with one of my young black belts. We were traveling for a camp and uh, and I did it and he was like, what are you doing? Like having [01:29:00] ketchup on my toast?
So he tried it and he was like, oh my God, that's disgusting. But anyways, I like it.
Riley: That's a perfect one, man. That is a perfect one. Uh, Steve, what's the scariest moment of your life? I.
Steven Hiscoe: Uh, so the scariest moment of my life, I think I had just been in the police force, um, maybe a couple of years. So I was, I got in when I was 20, so I been like 23 years old. And we got called to a, um, a lady who was in a mental health crisis. She was, uh, on the second floor. So this moving company had moved her and had broken, uh, piece of her furniture and she was really upset and wanted, uh, them to pay for it.
So she went to their office, but there was nobody there except the lady that answers the phone. [01:30:00] So it's just one room with a desk in the middle window behind the front door is right next to the stairwell. And, uh, so the lady, the receptionist manages to get outta there, but the woman in crisis is still in that room.
And so she phoned and, and told us what was happening. So we went up there and, uh, one of my partners was down on the roadway because this lady was hanging out the window, yelling out the window. We were in the hallway upstairs, beside the door, but a super small hallway. It's an old building. Not a lot of space to go.
So she comes out, we're right there, there's no backing away in the stairs. She had, uh, taken a knife, slid her hand and rubbed blood all over her face and was screaming. So my partner outside was like, okay, she's at the window, I can [01:31:00] see her. Nope, I don't see her. She's walking towards you guys. And, uh, it was kind of like, okay, if she comes out and she had this big knife, it was like, we don't have very many places to go.
So that was kind of scary. But it, you know, it ended like this. We, she was at the window. We went in, there was this big oak desk and it was almost like super human strength. Like, I grabbed one side, my partner grabbed the other side, and then, and just kind of in that moment, it's like the desk just floated outta the way.
So we walk up to her, we've got, you know, our gun out and stuff, and I just reached over, grabbed her by the hand. And that was it. It was just kind of super anti-climatic ending and it was just kind of like, she just melted. Right. So it was kind of like super high, uh, anxiety and stress and Yeah. Being shit scared to, yeah.
It just ended that way. [01:32:00] That was kind of probably when I kind of think back on my career, because I've been and seen and done all sorts of stuff, but that's kind of the one that really kind of stands out because it was so early in my, in my service.
Riley: Those first ones, right?
Steven Hiscoe: Yeah.
Riley: a little season to it over the years, but
Steven Hiscoe: Yeah.
Riley: what, uh, Steve, what is the best advice you've ever received?
Steven Hiscoe: I think just comes back to being coachable. Right? Is being coachable. Um, you know, when I was at the. When I was at the police, a, actually it's maybe even a little bit better than that. When I was at the police academy, I was in a position, uh, where I was in charge of a team and I was acting in the, in the lead role.
Um, and they decided that rather than, you know, the, the HR process, so rather than putting the job out for promotion where I would be able to apply for that promotion, they [01:33:00] brought somebody from outside into the job. So they've actually brought two people in. So now I didn't have a, a position within that unit anymore, and I let everybody know how POed I was about that, right?
Because I had gone to the police academy to help start this program. I'd been in the program, I'd been running the program for 10 months, and then all of a sudden, you know, my immediate supervisor retired. The next guy up the line retired the next guy up. So I had no buddy, I wanna say, looking after my back.
So when the new guy came in, um, you know, I was very upset when the new commanding officer, the academy came in, I knew him. So I went and saw him and I was like, you know, this is, uh, I, I told him how upset I was and he looked at me and he said, if you [01:34:00] wanna continue down this road of being bitter, we'll transfer you and find you somewhere else to go work.
If you are done being bitter, we got work to do. And, uh, that's where my career went from being like this to being this way, uh, because I went into a research and development role. I got to work on some major projects. I worked on national use of force projects. Um, the biggest project of my career was the RCMP Finally were approved for carbine, for like assault rifles for police officers.
And, uh, so I, I managed to be trained and be an instructor and we, so my role at the police academy was to figure out how are we gonna deliver this training [01:35:00] to 5,000 people in British Columbia. So that was my job, not to develop the training, but develop the process of how we're gonna train everybody. So I got to, you know, influence that.
I got to select the team of guys to get it started. Um, so that was, and for that. Role in that project I received, uh, the highest award that the RCMP uh, gives to its officers as far as a community service award. Um, so yeah, so that one piece of advice, if you're done being bitter and you're ready to move forward, then let's move forward.
But if you're gonna stay bitter, we're just gonna move you along. So I think that was probably, for me, the, the biggest piece of advice is just kinda, you know, things happen for a reason in life. Right. And I've always found that when something happens, there's a silver lining and it's somewhere.[01:36:00]
Riley: Oh, dude, that's a, that's clip worthy. I'm writing that one down. That's um. The idea of a silver lining man, there's, is always a silver lining to stuff, right? It may not be exactly how you saw it, how you planned it out, how you thought it was gonna go, there's always something to learn. You know, I, I talked
Steven Hiscoe: Talking about a guy yesterday
Riley: discouraged 'cause he's, he's starting out in the juujitsu world and he came to
Steven Hiscoe: in the class
Riley: just got smashed by another guy. you know, he walks out of there and his egos hurt, right? And he's going, man, I, I was just a sucky night.
Steven Hiscoe: died.
Riley: I kind
Steven Hiscoe: I kind of hated it
Riley: And
Steven Hiscoe: and I'm like, listen,
Riley: you're new at
Steven Hiscoe: this
Riley: the guy you grappled with is not new at this. He's been doing it for five or
Steven Hiscoe: five or six years,
Riley: and you need to be able to take every learning experience you've got.
And he says, well, if my only learning
Steven Hiscoe: experience
Riley: I suck at Juujitsu, then I
Steven Hiscoe: that's
Riley: from it. And I said, there you go man. I've had that [01:37:00] experience a thousand times over the years. You know, it's sometimes that's what we learn. It's like we've got more to learn.
Steven Hiscoe: absolutely, absolutely. Sometimes you're the hammer and sometimes you're the nail.
Riley: Yeah, yeah. Steve, what's uh, what's an item on your bucket list? Something that you'd like to do before it's all over?
Steven Hiscoe: Uh, you know what, I have Facebook friends all around the world, and one of the spots I'd love to go is Australia. Uh, I'm friends with the president of the Australian, uh, juujitsu Association, their Japanese Jiujitsu group down there. I think it'd be amazing to go down to their national camp and, and visit Australia and, and that kind of stuff.
Um, you know, for, I don't know, for me it's all sort of, you know, martial art related and, and those kind of things, but I think that would be a pretty cool experience to, uh, to go down there and, and see what a different part of the world is doing as far as martial arts related and, yeah.
Riley: New, new [01:38:00] Zealand's high on my list. Right. I'd love to. I'm a fly fisherman and I'd love to go down there. There's some
Steven Hiscoe: Awesome.
Riley: rivers down there. So, cool. So Steve, you mentioned reading before. What's your, your favorite book of all time?
Steven Hiscoe: Uh, you know what? I like reading John Maxwell books, like leadership books and, and that kind of stuff. So, you know, if there's a new one, I always like picking up those kind of things. Um, that would be kind of my favorite author. There's one, actually, I was fortunate enough to be quoted in, uh, one of his books, I think it's called, uh, everybody Communicates, but you know, few Connect and it's kind of like, how do you connect with people through communicating?
Um, so yeah, I, I, I like Maxwell books. They're easy to read, but they're very, uh, insightful. Um, but like, I don't read a lot of nonfiction or yeah, or fiction I should say
Riley: Sort of thing. Um, what's next for you, man? Where are you [01:39:00] going? Going from here?
Steven Hiscoe: next. Um. I think I have a couple of family appointments today. Last week was busy. We had 25 family appointments for new students. We registered, uh, 18, uh, new students in, uh, in March. Um, but this coming May, may, I'm off to Ontario. We have a Canadian Juujitsu Union, uh, event, uh, happening in Ottawa that I'm hosting with some instructors and, and schools that are in that area.
So that's the, uh, that's the next piece where, uh, where is the social media?
Riley: world can you be found?
Steven Hiscoe: Uh, so I am on Facebook just, uh, Steve Hisco. I'm on YouTube, uh, Hisco Jiujitsu Instagram at Sensei Hisco. And um, yeah, those are the spots.
Riley: Awesome, man. Awesome. Well, Steve, it's been a pleasure having you here, man. I love the business [01:40:00] insight, just the, the wisdom you've given us here today. It's, it's fun to see, you know, sometimes I have to be real careful 'cause I'm such a juujitsu nerd that I, I could just talk about that, right? In this podcast.
But that's not what this podcast is about. And so, getting to see. A martial artist with the accolades that you have, talk about the business side of what that looks like, helps other people relate, you know, that are again, in that high achiever business owner category, that man, there's a lot of things in common with the plumbers that listen to this or the painters that listen to this, you know, it's business is business and we have a lot of things that are in common and, and, uh, it's been just awesome to hear you really expand on that, man.
Thank you.
Steven Hiscoe: So thanks Riley. Look, I got so much more to learn as I go through this, and I'm just at the beginning of, of running this, but I appreciate the time that, uh, you gave me to kind of share and, uh, get some thoughts out there. So yeah, [01:41:00] thank you so much.
Riley: Well, that was always my friend. Go Earn Your SALT.