The Go Earn Your SALT Podcast Episode Transcript- Ep. 59- Luis Heredia: A Pioneer of Brazilian Jiu Jitsu

Luis Heredia: [00:00:00] Go earn your salt. I mean Well, it comes, it comes down to one simple word, and thank God I really believe on that, which is work. You know, go earn your SALT is... It won't come to you, man. It is there for you. Whatever is yours is there, you gotta go get it
You are listening to the Go Earn Your Salt podcast, brought to you by Salt Electrolytes. On this podcast, your host, Riley Rogers, explores the stories of people who get after it, get things done, and earn their salt. You will hear from high achievers who discuss what makes them tick, how they got to where they are today, and where they're headed tomorrow.
Perhaps this podcast will help you go earn your salt
 On today's episode, I have Luis Heredia. He is, has just become a, [00:01:00] standout guy in my world. So he's a, he's a, a jujitsu coral belt, recently promoted to coral belt, and one of the reasons I asked him on this show today is because Luis has been just a super consistent guy for, for years, for decades.
And although we talk mostly about jujitsu in this podcast, woven into it are principles for life that we can adapt to our businesses, to our fitness, to our sport, whatever it happens to be. And so I thought it was a wonderful fit for this podcast. Um, Luis is... This is a, it's a fantastic interview. I gained a lot from it. Take that, , do what you can with it, because there's a lot of good lessons, , woven in
Luis Heredia: I grew up very religious. I grew up, um Heavily influenced by the [00:02:00] Catholic Church
Riley: Sure
Luis Heredia: and, uh, but for some reason at a young age, it did not appeal to me to, to listen to certain things and to just be forced to believe a few things that it was that was written by man. So I, I kind of figured that out at early age. I also, believe it or not, this is the first time I'm gonna mention that, but, um This, the father's side of my family, um, my uncle was an activist, and he actually got himself in trouble in, the end of beginnings of the '60s, end of the '60s in [00:03:00] Brazil where, um where Brazil was the, the re- the regime in Brazil was, um, military,
Riley: Mm-hmm
Luis Heredia: It was, it was very dictatorship, I would say. And I have a part of my family that did not agree, so There is a little bit what my point here, there is a little bit of a politics in my blood genes. However, some reason, certain, certain subjects it did not really attracted me.
Riley: Sure.
Luis Heredia: really, I, I remember at young age I would say around 9, [00:04:00] 10, 11, 12, I, uh, I really dream about living out of sports. You know? I, I, I did not know which, but being very athletic, playing a lot of soccer growing up, right? All the time I was playing soccer. So I was very, like, active boy all the time. I would play soccer in school, would play soccer when we get out of school, play soccer in the sand at the beach. We played soccer everywhere, in the grass, cement, what they call futsal nowadays. Really fun. So, you know, like, going back that far, see the benefits of me [00:05:00] picking, like, being an athlete over anything else, right?
I mean, there was nobody really in my family that was really athletic and committed to sports, so they were more, were more, like, academic kind of, like, family. I need to like, you know. Their wish was that I would become a lawyer or a doctor or All kinds of things. So, um, I really fought, Riley, my way of like what it is today, how I live my life today It wasn't like f- when I mean fought, it wasn't a difficult thing. It's just like by little I'm kind of like, "No way, I want to dedicate. I wanna become an athlete. I want to [00:06:00] become an athlete." Right? So soccer was the first passion, and then, then surf became the second around 11, 12. Then, um Then I start to try different sports I grew older. I tried basketball, tried water polo, I tried, um, taekwondo. You know, I tried tennis So, uh, my relationship with jujitsu is really strong because it was very attractive, like being, you know, like [00:07:00] it was attracted in the sense that jujitsu wasn't nearly close to be as big as what it is. In Rio, it was a well-known thing, but also has that kind of like, uh, a little bit of a heavy thing, you know?
A little bit of a, a because that was so cool. Like jujitsu people never get hurt, never got their ass kicked. They never...
Riley: Yeah.
Luis Heredia: So it was a pretty attractive kinda thing. All my friends that learned jujitsu, they never any problem fighting, none of that, right? But it wasn't, parents would not pay for that, so it wasn't really an acceptable thing.
So I, by little, I managed to [00:08:00] To take care of that. I used to hide my kimono in the garage and,
Riley: Oh, really?
Luis Heredia: oh yeah, it took m- it took a long time for my parents that I was... I, I pro- I pretty much let them know when I got to the blue belt, then it's like...
Riley: Well, so,
Luis Heredia: I do- I was ch- I
Riley: eh
Luis Heredia: changing, too, you know? I was a bec- I was becoming Jiu-jitsu helped me so much. I, I, I was actually way less rebellious, way... I've never been that kind of a kid anyways, but I've been very healthy. I've been very athletic. I've been... experiment all kinds of things, so
Riley: How old were you at this time?
Luis Heredia: Um, 15, 14, when
Riley: Man
Luis Heredia: start to like... When I really... [00:09:00] I probably got my blue belt as almost at 18. So throughout this three, four years playing jujitsu, keeping in the garage, going here, going there, staying a white belt for three, four years, Uh, yeah. I remember my first experience with jujitsu was at, at the Carlson Gracie School and, uh, in Copacabana at F- F- Fig- the famous Figueiredo Magalhães. I was there I used to take classes with one of his black belts called M- Mario Cupertino. Really,
Riley: I've heard that name
Luis Heredia: guy. Really took care of me, helped me out [00:10:00] Then, uh, and then from there I had a lot of friends training at Oswaldo Alves too Sergio Pena and, and a bunch of like Carlson students over there too. Ooh, it was a very, very, very rough training, man. All these places that I'm mentioning to you That's what I'm saying. Jiu-jitsu was very different. I'm very glad I came from those days. However I am very glad to adapting myself to this new softer way teaching and practicing jujitsu. It's not really that soft. It's way more refined. Meaning, meaning [00:11:00] you do jujitsu enough, you're gonna start to understand that invisible things that Rickson talks so much about it, how they really works.
If you don't practice jujitsu, you can't understand the invisible jujitsu. You can only understand the vi- invisible jujitsu if He's the guy, Rickson's the guy that can explain that better than anybody else. So I actually, I'm actually trying to be with him as much as possible because I'm really trying to get that concept of the invisible jujitsu out.
Riley: But you, how, how long did you train with Rickson? Did you start with him?
Luis Heredia: No, like I said, I started at Carlson Gracie, right? Mario Copacino, Carlson, [00:12:00] and then from
Riley: And then where did you meet Hixson?
Luis Heredia: Hickson. I met Hickson, to be honest, the very first time I met Hickson was at the beach surfing. I used to, I used to be really good friends, not really good, but friends with Hoyler, right? So we would talk story a lot. We would see each other in surfing and always talk a little bit. And, uh, then one day where everybody was surfing in this very, uh, well-known place in Rio called Prainha. And, um- I had a, I had an, uh, I had a situation that was extremely funny. Perhaps Hickson might not even remember, 'cause he was so, like, on top of his game on everything. But it's very [00:13:00] bad when you, you probably know, Riley, when i- in surfing, in the surfing culture and, and, and, and etiquette, you don't drop on people already riding the wave. if somebody rides the wave and they're taking the wave already, you should let them try to finish, keep
Riley: Okay, that's an etiquette thing that
Luis Heredia: an etiquette thing. That's why it causes so much trouble a lot between surfers. 'Cause sometimes either there's not many waves or there's this one guy that surfs better than everybody and keeps catching waves and, you know, like, com- you know, it, it, it's, it's, it's like, like I said, it's an etiquette thing.
But anyways, going back to that, that day I took off on a wave. mean, I took off on Hickson's wave. [00:14:00] I did not do it on purpose. I would never do that. The guy was like Mr. Rio de Janeiro, you know? So as when I see, when I already took... when I took down the wave, when I, when I, when I dropped and start to ride the wave, when I look at back, it was Hickson. And of course, we both like tangled up, got crazy. And then as I was like taking the and, you know, like getting pounded by the waves, in my mind I was thinking like, "Holy moly, I better die 'cause I'm gonna... as soon as I pop up, I'm gonna get killed by Hickson Grace," you know? I really thought about that.
I say, "Oh man, the guy's gonna be so upset." And then of course, we both pop out. We bo- we fell, [00:15:00] we tangled, and we popped out. And then the first thing I said before he says anything, I say, "Man, I'm so sorry." Oh, he opened a big smile of his, not of a concern. "No problem," blah, blah, blah. So I really like... I'm like, it was my chance to get to know him. So we talk a
Riley: So did you know of him then?
Luis Heredia: Oh, yeah, everybody know of him Of course I knew who he was. Uh, like the guy was... Man, that guy was amazing. is amazing, but he was, he was very gifted, you know, very strong, very talent, very handsome So yeah, so we had that thing, and then we talk about it, and then we get out, we got out of the water by, by the [00:16:00] parking lot.
We, know, introduced myself, we talk, and then, um, talked to Royler that I met his... And then I was invited... Oh, this is what happened. The reason why I trained in all these academies prior, it was because I used to live two, three blocks away from Carlson Gracie, so I did not need to... I, I had no car, I had nothing.
So of me taking buses and doing this and doing that, 'cause that many jujitsu schools, but there were enough that I like, "Oh, I'm gonna go train with the side, the Carlson Gracie side, the Rolls Gracie side." You know, it was It, it, they were starting to break up and make this different Gracie academies [00:17:00] with different black belts that are already, like, pretty getting ready to teach, but still fairly pretty small. So that's the reason why I got into the Carlson Gracie system before, and perhaps Oswaldo, because they were, like, two, three blocks away from my home
Riley: Oh, sure. 
Luis Heredia: So that's the reason why I got, I got, I got... Plus, jujitsu is very big in Copacabana. I don't know if you know or if you heard about that, little
Riley: don't.
Luis Heredia: Copacabana.
Riley: I guess I have heard the name, but I don't know anything about it
Luis Heredia: Copacabana is a well, well world-renowned famous beach in Rio. It's everything happening. It's, it's an old beach, so back in the day a lot stuff was happening. Nowadays, when you go to Rio on the New Year's Eve, there is that very [00:18:00] famous, if you Google and afterwards you Google, like, fireworks New Year's Eve in Rio, in Copacabana.
It's incredible, Riley. It's like 30, 40 minutes of this fucking... It, it's, it's incredible. Anyways, it's a very... It, it was back in the day was Rio wasn't, you know, Rio wasn't as big as it is right now. So most of the academies were confining to Copacabana and, and, and very close to each other. Now, there you go to Rio, probably there is academies in Copacabana, another 100 in Ipanema, another 100 in Leblon.
Those are all little towns. But anyways, I- At one point, [00:19:00] so I had a lot of friends from the neighborhood training all these different kinds of, uh, Gracie Academies So after I met, had this encounter with Rickson and I knew Royler, my parents, that's true story, my parents, they move from Copacabana to a little bit more upscale neighborhood back in the day, which is called São Conrado. It's where people do the hang glider and all that
Riley: Oh, sure
Luis Heredia: Yeah. I- it's, it's, it's, it's right next to the biggest slum, favela, in Rio de Janeiro, the Favela da Rocinha. It's really beautiful, but it's this, it's very d- It's like the whole Rio. It's a huge disparity, right? There is the slums, there's the favelas, and then you go down right by [00:20:00] what they call What they called the beach to- area.
I, I, I forgot, it's a lo- a bunch of like buildings, you know, nice buildings, so-so buildings, but it's-- That's how
Riley: Is it kind of like a resort? Is that what you're talking about, like the resort-type community?
Luis Heredia: like condominiums
Riley: Okay. Okay
Luis Heredia: I'm trying to find the terminology that it's like when you're like y- when you're from-- You're either from the slums. You're either from the slums or you are from... How can I say? Or you are from The beach area.
Riley: Mm-hmm
Luis Heredia: It's all close to the beach, but the favelas, they are like the big [00:21:00] hills with, you know. Anyways, he, it, it's, it's very hard. It's actually a cool thing that we're talking about if people want to like venture out and Google and see favelas. Favela da Rocinha and all these nei- neighborhoods in Rio, pretty cool. It's, it's something, something cool to, to know.
Riley: So favela is,
Luis Heredia: moved
Riley: like the poor area of town, right? It's the
Luis Heredia: No, the Rio, Rio it's like R- the whole Rio, the majority of Rio is surrounded by Nice big buildings and homes aro- around the coast,
Riley: Uh-huh.
Luis Heredia: you go up a little bit on the slums on the hills, there is a lot of [00:22:00] favelas, which is low-income housing.
Riley: Okay. Okay
Luis Heredia: everybody is all together somehow And that's
Riley: Understand
Luis Heredia: and then, and then, then now that we're putting that together, then that's actually the reason why That's really the reason why I tell people, and you know that 'cause you, you take into... the reason why I got myself into jujitsu. 'Cause I want to walk in this environment not being bullied, not feeling, not feeling afraid, not feeling scared, not intimidated. That's tru- the truth. The, the, the amount of, of... Nobody you would get competition and get kimono. The most that you would have got from those companies was like... My first sponsor as a blue belt [00:23:00] was Atama Kimono and restaurants. So I would, like, do my training and, and have my meals and stuff, but the most you'll get back in the day, you know? You know, post what it is, like that's how huge jujitsu is nowadays. It pays money. I, I've never once in my life had the option to competing or fighting for money.
Riley: Yeah
Luis Heredia: it was always from the heart and from, and for the system, know?
So, so anyway, my family, my parents moved to this neighborhood called San Conrado. It's, it's, it's pretty cool. But, and then the closest by bus, 20, 30 minutes from my house, the [00:24:00] closest academy at this point, it was... Actually, it was a few. the other way, the other side, it was like the Barings, Baring and Silvio Baring, Marcelo
Riley: Okay
Luis Heredia: and all those people there, and some of the old Gracie students. And then to, to, to the north side of me was the Gracie Humaita, the famous Gracie Humaita, where Rickson used to teach, Ed Gracie used to teach, Royler used to teach. His brother, Relson, still teaches. So it became more convenient, better for me. still did not have car. So I pretty much got into that, that side of jujitsu, that side of the family [00:25:00] Then
Riley: man
Luis Heredia: i- the rest is kind of history. I really, I really put a lot of, uh Funny thing is I kept doing, I kept doing what I gotta do, what my parents wanted me to do.
I kept going to school. As a matter of fact, I, uh, I made it to college. I did two years of economics and, uh, it was really hurting my soul and my feelings, Riley. And, uh, and then I start to do side job gigs to keep doing jujitsu. Very strong in jujitsu all the time, but side jobs, side jobs. And then one day Around July, August of 1988, I remember I was doing a rolling session at the academy. Oh, I was so busy. Lots of bla- lots of, uh, lots of [00:26:00] training back in the day. And, uh, I was a purple belt at this time, and I remember I was already, like, friends with Rickson from... We, we start to surf together, so we start to, like, somehow build this relationship, start to get built, like, doing jujitsu I got to his academy, and this is, this is the coolest thing. I got to his academy as a blue belt, right? I was like
Riley: Uh-huh
Luis Heredia: blue belt. And then, and then this is really cool because remember when I said that, uh, my goal was to really become an athlete,
Riley: Yeah
Luis Heredia: I, uh My dream was to become a surfer. [00:27:00] My dream was to become a surfer and, uh But every time I would go do a tournament, I would fail miserably, not even the first round. I'm like, "No way." I love it so much, and then I try, I try, I try. It was a very good... It was a really nice promising phase of surfing in Brazil. Same as, like, jujitsu, surf kinda almost growing up together
Riley: Yeah
Luis Heredia: Surfing was so amazing.
It was like right on the beginning. It was such a cool feeling, but I would suck in tournaments. And then, um And then of course, I, I was doing jujitsu on the side. Not, I love jujitsu, but I wasn't dying professionally [00:28:00] yet. It was just for fun.
Riley: Mm-hmm.
Luis Heredia: I remember doing this training that I just talked to you about it in Finnish, and then Rickson said, "Man, there is..." This is as a blue belt. Two,
Riley: Uh-huh.
Luis Heredia: things I remember he saying, "Man, there is one slot available to go compete this weekend in a blue belt division. Do you wanna go?" I'm like, "Yeah, I like competition," right? And I'm like, "Yeah, I'll go." It was like, it was like I w- it wasn't in Rio. It was the, in this town that you cross the bridge called Niterói. It's a town that it's across the bridge, and I d- have no way to get there, and what? Rickson took me over there, right? He's like, "No, I'll give you a ride. We'll [00:29:00] go, we'll go together." Holy moly, man. What a day. like it was today. Young, I'm going with him. He was like, you know, this, this really... I remember, I, I remember, like, like my, my bracket was called, and I made it all the way to the final. And then on the
Riley: Oh, nice
Luis Heredia: and, and then on the final was one tough kid, I forgot his name, from Carlson Gracie. I knew it was going to be a battle, and me. And I remember the reason I said that 'cause one corner we had Hicks, on another corner we had Carlson, right?
Riley: Oh, man
Luis Heredia: match started, man. I, I really, Riley, I have no idea about... I, I, I just go. I, I just went. No strategy, [00:30:00] no idea about point that I just like... I remember finishing that match was 0-0. The kid have bleeding, like scratches everywhere. I have scratches everywhere, and I'm like... The guy raised my hand, right?
I'm like... It, it came, it came to be one of those matches that are like, uh, who is the most crazy aggressive over here? I guess it was me. So-
Riley: Oh, that was your day, huh?
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Go earn your salt
Luis Heredia: My very first jujitsu tournament I won after, like, this dramatic end and crazy, right? So I'm like, [00:32:00] "Wow, I really got a taste right there." I'm like, "Oh, may- maybe, maybe I can do this," right? So I start to push a little bit more on training, and I start winning tournaments. Yeah, then I got my purple belt In '88, beginning, beginning or end of '87, I probably got my purple belt. I'm not really sure, but, but it should be on the end of '87 because on '88, I remember Rickson inviting me to say, "Do you wanna come to California to help my brother, Rorion?" My younger brother Royce is already there. Do you wanna go help out and we're gonna do jujitsu there to see what's happening? I'm like, "Of [00:33:00] course." And no hesitation. That's the day that my life changed Pretty cool. 'Cause he had so many... To this day, I, I don't question anything 'cause it is what it is, but to this day I'm like, man, was least 40, 50 people in that mat, and a lot of guys tougher than me, you know? But for some reason he invite me. So I went talk... So there was that little, that little thing between jujitsu, me, and my parents. And then I remember telling them that I say, "Hey, I got invited to go be in United States for a little bit. I, uh, and I'm going for a year." I really thought [00:34:00] being with Rickson all the time, every day, would get to my brown pretty fast. So I'm actually remember getting here in '88, the first purple belt ever in this country
Riley: Oh, you're the f- that's awesome
Luis Heredia: The very first purple belt, Brazilian purple belt that I remember, I might be wrong, but here we're talking about Yaga. I was invited to come and do jujitsu, which was, which was being practiced and taught inside a garage.
Riley: Yeah
Luis Heredia: And there was Three black belts: Royce, Rorion, and Rickson. And then it was Half Gracie as a blue belt, as a purple belt, and some other guys, but they [00:35:00] were Brazilians already, like Rorion students that are like, like Richard Bla- Brassler, uh, Chris, Chris Saunders. You heard those guys?
Riley: Krista Hower
Luis Heredia: teaches... Chris Haueter is another one. There is
Riley: Okay
Luis Heredia: that used to train with the Machados, and there is Saunders, which
Riley: Cylinders? I, I don't know that one
Luis Heredia: Saunders is actually A current teacher at the Grace, uh, at, at the Gracie Jiu-Jitsu, uh, hot, um, And they're in here in school.
Riley: Okay. Okay.
Luis Heredia: the
Riley: there
Luis Heredia: at the headquarters. He's one of the instructors over there. So there was these people. So as far as I know, as a Brazilian, I [00:36:00] don't remember nobody wearing the purple belt or even know what jujitsu was That is, that is kind of like crazy true, and it's a fact Remember this, I did not wanna go there, but let's bring that feud that is going on between, online between Carley Gracie and Rorion and... Right? That Carley, you know, it's been all over Instagram that Carley claims that he was here before Rorion And he's the one that went to l- to the l- a legal battle with him because of the use of the Grace name. Remember this kind of thing it's rolling on? Yeah. So the truth is, of [00:37:00] matter is, it might be a fact that Carly here before Horio. I'm not sure 'cause I wasn't connected to Carly at all. It's always been connected to Horio and, and, and brothers And, and, and the funny thing, 'cause the internet feeds so much crap and bullshit because what happened is it might be true that a person got here before the other. Well But you could have, you should have, you have, you could, could have done. Nobody did what Rorion did. The ex- the w- the, the p- the people that really exposed jujitsu, it was Rorion and his brothers [00:38:00] that I, that I remember. Oh man, I remember everything. I got here before Most of everybody. It was me, Ralph, Rickson. The same plane came Jacaré, owner and the president of Al- Al- Alliance, Romero
Riley: Mm-hmm
Luis Heredia: Jacaré. He came with us on the plane because he was on his way to the Big Island in Hawaii to do the Ironman
Riley: Okay. Okay
Luis Heredia: not come. He brought the kimono and all. We kinda cruised, you know, but it, but he was so into triathlon that I remember he's going to there. Six months later, around that, uh, time, Rigan [00:39:00] came. Rigan and all this other... The Machados came, um, and so many others. not gonna get there But, but yeah, it feels like, like it, it, it's a good like, um... How can I say? It's not a feeling, but it, it's kinda cool and very encouraging when you pioneer something that works. So I have the same kind of a Not problem, but situation to solved when I moved from, in 2000, after being in LA for 13 years. Got there in '88. 2000, 2000, beginning of [00:40:00] 2001, I was out of there to open my academy here in Maui So what I'm trying to say is that because when I arrived in United States, there were no jujitsu academies whatsoever anywhere when we started out of a garage.
Riley: Right
Luis Heredia: you know, man, I learned from the right way with the right people.
That w- that's how lucky I am. Because what happened is when I got to Maui, that was the same situation when I got to Los Angeles 13 years prior. only had a garage to teach over here. Some guys knew, they heard, but they gave me a garage to teach And They gave me a garage to teach, and then again, the rest is history. [00:41:00] I built the biggest jujitsu program in the state of Hawaii, I would say, here in the island of Maui. Really cool, successful, 25 years operating in the community. It's a very tight community.
Riley: Yeah
Luis Heredia: You gotta, you gotta really try to do the right thing You know, even changing a little bit. Um, I was talking to one of my students and friend that it's not really easy to navigate through life Having this communion between mind, spirit, and mind, you know? I'm very fortunate. If I can talk to you about that right now
Riley: Yes, please
Luis Heredia: I do, I do, I do. [00:42:00] I'm turning 64 in December. And, uh, I feel that I'm finally starting to learn jujitsu. I'm finally start to understand this life process kind of thing. Not complete, I'm not claiming here that I, I'm a guru and understanding everything, but I think I, uh The same student, it's been my student for 25 years. That same student said, "Man, it's pretty impressive to see how you evolved and became a master," you know? And I don't think it's something that it should be a goal. [00:43:00] Nobody wants... That, that wasn't never a goal that I wanna become a master. I mean, I just stuck with what I do all day long, every day.
And through this kind of belief, I went through some pretty rough times. So I have this completely And what jujitsu does to people, do, did to me, does to me. So it is very cool if you start to... You, you don't need to notice, but if people come along, Riley, right? And says, "Fuck, Luis, you're really, you're really improving. You're really evolving. You're becoming this Becoming this [00:44:00] source of, like, light and information and, and hope. And it's really what I really, like, need to hear in, in one, you know?
Riley: Mm-hmm
Luis Heredia: If I can, if I can, 36, uh, 6, 37, 36, 1988. I got here in February 11th, 1988. In, in-- Not here, in Los Angeles. So funny. That's when I met Royce for the first time. He went and pick us up at the airport And, uh, man, it's been quite a journey, Riley. You know enough that, uh, there is so much There's so [00:45:00] much happening in our world right now, like podcastings and tournaments, and it's pretty incredible. And I think credit should be give to people that had an idea to begin this. And, and, you know, no matter what, like, this feud between the Gra, the family is I, uh, I have to be very thankful to Rorion 'cause right or wrong, he put jujitsu in the world map,
Riley: That's right. Yeah
Luis Heredia: you know?
Riley: Yeah, whether he was here first or not, he sure marketed it better, right?
Luis Heredia: Yeah, well, history's tough because the majority If somebody [00:46:00] right now write a book about the beginnings from 1988 to now about jujitsu, I can read and say if it's true or not.
Riley: Yeah, 'cause you, you, you were there
Luis Heredia: can right now say that this guy Luiz, uh, I don't know he's telling the truth or no. 'Cause nothing, nothing it was really... We do have re- records. We do have seminars that Rorion used to take us, like right on the beginning. I told you my very first seminar, February, Fe- January 11. So around February, end of February, Rorion's like... Man, I was like everything new to me. Cold in California, that cold that I never felt. And then I remember the night before Rorion saying, "Hey, tomorrow around 6:00, we're gonna leave for a demonstration seminar in San Diego."
I'm like, "I [00:47:00] never been to San Diego." I'm like, "Oh my God. Cool. Awesome." Not me not knowing that it w- nothing was like vacation party or going, you know? It was, that's how jujitsu was built. So we leave at 6:00 in the morning, Torrance, California, and we drive two hours away. And I remember, like, getting very early, around 8:30, 9:00 in the morning, 'cause we left early that day. Around 9:00 in the morning, I was, like, into this huge naval base, Coronado Bay. It's, it's a Marine Navy SEAL, toughest fucking motherfuckers in the planet. I'm like, zero knowledge, word or d- anything. And then I remember he saying, "Yeah, we're gonna have a, a seminar here, a couple, a few hours seminar here with these Marines." I'm like, "Okay." So that's how it [00:48:00] was. I mean, well, I, I, I'm so excited about this right now because when I mean that's how it was, I mean There was so little information about everything that I like, who are these Brazilian fucking guys that walk into a naval base and wanna do a demonstration somehow challenging everybody?
Riley: Yeah
Luis Heredia: 'Cause it started like this. It started like Rorion, very simple headlock escape defense. Oh, do you guys know how to escape from this headlock blah, blah, blah, and this and that? They're like, "We can try." Basic headlock that every John will do it on the street.
Riley: Yeah
Luis Heredia: why that should be kept being taught, 'cause that's the first thing the fucking average Joe is gonna do. They're gonna go to your [00:49:00] neck and kinda hold for dear life there. Without knowing that's what those guys kind of, uh, did. Hickson hold a couple of them, they hold them, they could not escape, and then you know very well. How can we prove the point? Bring the 130, 35, like, purple belt, skinny crawling, and grab him on the neck, and I have to escape. I have to escape with technique or don- I probably would not escape today I got put in that position. But the problem is, not a problem, the truth of matter, matter is I won't get in a position like that most likely
Riley: For sure
Luis Heredia: But if I do got in a position like that, like I [00:50:00] was put in, and right now I don't know if I would escape. Not only they're so strong and they know I'm way older, I was pretty scrappy, so I escaped no matter what. And, "Oh, that was lucky. Try again." So bring another 300 fucking pound Marine, "Oh, grab his neck." I'm like, "That's bullshit."
Riley: Yeah.
Luis Heredia: really, it was built to me like that. The other day, the other day I was thinking, like, how battle tested I really am. It's a pretty cool
Riley: Well, you, you mentioned something to me, Luis, when you were, we were riding in the truck back to the, back to your hotel. I had asked you about just the value of the fundamental stuff, the self-defense part of jujitsu that is, you know, we sometimes poo-poo it like it's some kind of a basic thing that, [00:51:00] oh, that's what we learn when we're white belts, and we want to get past that.
But you're coming to, you mentioned coming to a real new appreciation for the value of those things, and I would second that, man. I, I feel like the farther along I go in this jujitsu journey, the more that those things really matter, because those are the things that, again, you said every Joe does on the street, and if you don't know how to deal with that, then what are we really learning, right?
What... Are you
Luis Heredia: It's a pretty... know, Riley, this is such of an extensive subject because let's start it this way. Number one At age 14, I started doing jujitsu so I could walk feeling a little bit less intimidated and less bullied. So [00:52:00] primarily, I picked up a style of martial arts that was not only becoming very popular, but well-known Proving to be effective. And, and, and, and it did not take me too long to see that efficiency. You
Riley: Mm-hmm.
Luis Heredia: two, three years later, I was walking around already like, "Oh, you wanna scrap? Let's scrap." it was really enforced. Okay, now let's go a little bit deeper I do love, respect, not necessarily trust every martial arts. I love, I respect, but not necessarily trust [00:53:00] any other style of martial art as much as tr-- I, as I trust jujitsu So every martial art should be committed to the show self-defense, either being boxing, taekwondo, aikido, Krav Maga, jujitsu, judo,
Riley: Mm-hmm
Luis Heredia: Not much wrestling, so it's so tough and, and so sport oriented But all this style of martial arts that I said, [00:54:00] if they I think th- I think the only thing that they should enforce the most the self-defense part of it.
Riley: Mm-hmm
Luis Heredia: You know? The moment that you, the moment that you start to put a lot of rules into a game competition, you lose a lot of efficiency I remember karate being so tough on my days growing up that it's, like, ridiculous how tough those guys really were. That's why jujitsu kind of like there was all those challenges against luta livre then in
Riley: For sure
Luis Heredia: guys were fucking brutal. It was elbow, straight punching the ... You know? So when [00:55:00] Nothing was illegal. It was, it was, it was situations where that's how you do to really defend yourself. So, so what's kind of like, what it's kind of like became a little bit of a goal to me nowadays on my new way of understanding, showing, teaching, learning is as much as I can To bring, not to bring, 'cause that's where the mistake is made. People are trying to break this jujitsu into all the [00:56:00] self-defense, the sport, and the competition. That is three different things. When I learned jujitsu, it was only two
Riley: Yeah
Luis Heredia: Self-defense, sport jiu-jitsu. Sport jiu-jitsu is like, "Okay, let's not fucking slap each other's face right now, and let's see if we can control each other." Oh, 40 degrees in Rio de Janeiro summertime, like let's fucking take the kimono off
Riley: Sure
Luis Heredia: So all this no-gi, all this... I'm not gonna say bullshit because it's part of what progress really is. It's part of evolving, right?
Riley: For sure
Luis Heredia: You know what I, uh, you know one w- one system in [00:57:00] school I really admire? The Valente brothers.
Riley: Yeah
Luis Heredia: Yeah, because They, uh, they really learned the right way. And, and, and then, and then when people like, those guys are tough, man. If you wanna go train with them, with the Valencia brothers, it's not gonna be easy.
They're tough because It's how I, I think. It's like a l- this is how I'm in training at 65. Everything that I do is based on self-defense. Prevention. No, don't grab my head. You have no business touching my neck.
Riley: Yeah
Luis Heredia: And then if you do, then you find ways of like... But if you always, [00:58:00] every time you're doing sport jujitsu, you devote some of your feelings and timing into the self-defense, oh man, you're gonna be able to train way longer. You're going to be able to enjoy the ride more, and you're gonna be able to actually with people You
Riley: When you, when you're talking about this
Luis Heredia: can you sh- how can you share the berimbau? How can the berimbau be A trademark in our sport. You can't. You know, "Oh, that guy is really good on berimbolo." He is. So many guys [00:59:00] are so good in s- such a specific situations because they're... It's not only part of their DNA, but it's part of, like, how athletic they are or how flexible they are. But if you're going to teach that to a grandma that just want to, like, learn base, she just want to learn to not let nobody touch behind her neck, she creates awareness in grabbing her purse when she's going to the grocery store. Do you know what I mean?
Riley: Yes
Luis Heredia: that's, uh... I think that's what I am heading. not sure yet, but I think that's what I'm heading as a, martial artist And I, I am, I've been, I've been, um, I've been, I've been trying to [01:00:00] stay as close as possible from... to Ritson because this is what I guess his new goal is too,
Riley: Yeah
Luis Heredia: for everybody, self-defense for everybody. And, um, and I want to be, uh, and I, but I wanna be, I want to be useful. Oh man, I keep moving this camera. I'm sorry
Riley: You're okay. Do you, um, do you th- how does this carry over to other things, right? 'Cause you had mentioned building a business, right? You, you, you built your academy. You, um, have, have participated in other sports, and this longevity idea of learning how to do something efficiently for the long run, right?
'Cause we can do that. That common thread happens, I think, in, in a business or in other sports or any, any endeavor that we do in life where there is a pace which we can sustain that we really ought to be thinking about. [01:01:00] Because sometimes we can just run so hard we burn ourselves out or we, you know, physically overdo it, and so then we injure ourselves or, you know.
This, the self-defense idea I think goes further than just sport, right? Just, just jujitsu
Luis Heredia: I think it's the self-defense idea, it brings everybody back to the roots of any martial arts really is.
Riley: Yeah
Luis Heredia: that. It's the self-defense part. Most of martial arts were created Not for Olympic viewers, not for-- Most of martial arts were created in order to the weak to be able to fight the oppressor, uh, as I, as I think. [01:02:00] I think if you did not have access to weapons, your best weapon would be yourself, your hands, your skills That, that ninja kind of mentality, you know, like hiding on the... Nobody sees it. Done.
Riley: Yeah, you mentioned awareness, right? Just, just situational awareness was one of the things you mentioned earlier
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Luis Heredia: I see, I see so much, again, bring-- just to remind our viewers, is that The primary idea of any martial art should be self-defense so they can help their community to feel less oppressed, less bullied, [01:04:00] less intimidated, right? Um It, it, it's going back to what I was telling you, like, I am finally start to understand more of the invisible jujitsu, which allows me to keep training. 'Cause now if I'm on top, I know where the weight should go. If I'm on the bottom, I know where I should not let this weight be on me. So... And then this is just, just, just the s- the grappling side of jujitsu, right? On the, from the ground. Now, from stand up [01:05:00] You create this habit of, you create this habit of always being aware. That's what I think, that's when... I think that's a good part for me as my new mission, to remind people of I told you that. We, we, you, you're, you're ... I, I'm not sure if I did mention the, these words, but on my last camp in Utah, but I remember saying, "Listen, self-defense is done, it's practiced from the moment you open your eyes the moment you come back to bed
Riley: Yeah
Luis Heredia: So if you [01:06:00] create this relationship self-preservation awareness, uh, you take that when you do, when you do, when you do, when you do, uh, martial arts. 'Cause it, it, it's a, it's a habit You know, it's so fun 'cause, uh, that's another thing. Yesterday I read something about, forgot, it's not really what you do, it's your habits. And, and, and something that I, I'd known for so long that I told my students not too long ago, I said, "Your habits will take you as far as you want them, them to take you." You create a habit, but the habit has to [01:07:00] become a habit 'cause otherwise it's just a trend
Riley: Yeah
Luis Heredia: You know? So it, like, well, we said that not too long ago, how difficult really is to manage to keep this mind, spirit, soul communicating together. Oh man, it take me, took me so long. It took me so many years, Riley. And like I said, I'm finally to get a grip certain things. So Teaching people awareness and self-defense, you allowed me to go long ways teaching jujitsu. If I switch to like, oh now... I, I can't even [01:08:00] imagine it, but if I walk today inside my academy and say, "From now on, forget self-defense. I wanna make this the strongest a- again..." 'Cause I, I... You know, it's always phases.
The reason why I'm going through this, it's because I remember having been so strong and psychopathic about competition. I remember talking to Pedro and offering myself to be a head coach kind of instructor for the competition team at the Pedro Solo. This is long ago. I really have no interest anymore on those kind of things.
So, so I remem- I'm,
Riley: Uh-huh
Luis Heredia: I'm, I'm just saying I just can't imagine it, like waking up and like It's so much more work, and it's so much less productive 'cause now I'm gonna be in class, say, "Pass the guard 100 times. [01:09:00] Do that, da, da, this and that. No, the ball, why, why'd you let people score points on you?" Instead of like, "Hey, why'd you let people put their hands on you?" 
Riley: Hey, question for myself, um, 'cause, you know, this really isn't, um, my podcast is, is a, is a go-getter's podcast, right? And that's why I wanted you on here. But question for myself, for the non-jiu-jitsu people that listen to this, it, it may not pertain, but when you, when you hear those words, uh, invisible jiu-jitsu, and Hickson uses that a lot, and I...
How would you define that?
Luis Heredia: Well, it's, uh, it, it should not be based on visual. It should be based on feelings. know? You can You, you can't see distance visually, but you really [01:10:00] can't unless you, you feel the distance. You can't see weight, but you can feel weight. It's, uh, it's everything pretty much That cannot be seen, but it can be felt. So weight distribution, distance, um, frames Weight distribution, frames, um, great understanding on base, you know, all this stuff that, uh, it's not really, cannot really be seen, can only be felt. That's how I'm taking [01:11:00] as invisible
Riley: Here's, here's a, here's a related question, but the term base has been used since I, you know, forever, right? Would, would stability or balance be a good substitute for that, you think? 'Cause I think I was deep into purple belt before I put, put it in my head or really understood what stand up in base meant.
You know, uh, it clicked with me one day that I'm trying to stand up with stability, right? And with a foundation that I can't be, uh, destabilized, you know? I'm
Luis Heredia: You know, I, um Like I mentioned just not too long ago that I am really finally start to get a grip and understand this invisible thing. So is being base to me. [01:12:00] Because I, e- every time I go see Rickson, he still tests me, s- my base out. And, you know, just that push here and there, you'll make a difference when you're getting bullied and you get ahold of this guy, and then he decides to throw himself out of the balcony.
"Fuck that. I'm not gonna go to jail. I'm gonna go throw myself out of the balcony with this guy." you do have that clinch, but if you don't have that sense of, "Wait a minute, this guy's gonna throw me out of the balcony," either he'll go by himself or he's not going nowhere. So base would be, they gonna ... A man among I'm finally start to understand base too You know, Riley, like,
Riley: I'm not alone then, huh?
Luis Heredia: now I'm finally start [01:13:00] to understand base better. This-- There is one thing that I call L base. You remember I said that in a... Like, you do-- you either forward in an L shape or you step backwards in an L shape And I see the relation there when I surf.
Riley: Yeah
Luis Heredia: When at the same base that I'm doing when I'm doing jujitsu right now, it's pretty much the base that I do when I surf PE in and Most of all, it's kind of like a, it's kind of like the base that I'm doing for a bunch of other situations where I had to maybe s- stability, stabilize myself without shaking
Riley: Yeah
Luis Heredia: So [01:14:00] actually this is what base would be. Uh, it would be something that it's kind of unshakable. know how we say that in terminology in like,
Riley: I think stable's a great word for it. I, I do. I think it's, it's
Luis Heredia: the house is stable enough that it doesn't shake under any circumstances. So, so I would say base, what I'm trying to-- when I mean base, it's positions where you don't You don't shift, you d- you know much, you, you, you stabilized in there. You either take down that way or you defend it or you, you don't go anywhere 'cause that's something I've been training a lot with my students 'cause sometimes you have [01:15:00] them clinching, but then it's like I said, "Oh," I pretend that the edge of the mat would be a cliff and said, "Oh, you walk over there and go you both."
And then usually they got so tense that the guy carries them to the cliff, and boom, they both fall. Where it should be like, "Oh no, you're not going to the cliff. You're not going nowhere. I'm gonna... Actually, before you get there, I'm gonna pick you up." You know what I'm saying?
Riley: Yeah
Luis Heredia: stability, stability might have a lot to do
Riley: Yeah. I don't think it, it's perfect, but I think that's more the idea I get when I hear base. 'Cause for a long time base was a confusing term to me. People would say, you know, "Stand up and base," or, "Get a good base," and I was like, "Whoa, what does that mean?" And, uh, yeah. Yeah. Stability I think is what I eventually start to equate it to, but I don't think it's the whole thing.
I, I still [01:16:00] haven't really narrowed it down to what, what having a good base is. 'Cause when somebody has it and you try to move them and you can't, it's, you, again, like you said, it's invisible and you have to feel it to understand it.
Luis Heredia: How's your, how's your SALT company going?
Riley: It's good, man. Yeah.
Luis Heredia: is, uh... It helps
Riley: Yeah.
Luis Heredia: man.
Riley: We've got,
Luis Heredia: is a lot of science behind the studies of SALT. You, you- did you go through a lot of, uh... Do you have to go through a lot of, like, scientific research and, and,
Riley: did
Luis Heredia: Do you go through over trials and errors with the product a little bit?
Riley: Um, I didn't, I didn't put on my own trials. What I did is I looked up already completed trials. So there's a, there's a lot of studies that have been done for years and years and years that the data is on- online. Like you can, you can look it up and, and, uh, yeah. So I just spent a lot of time [01:17:00] looking up
Luis Heredia: you can drink electrolyte as a supplement or you only should drink after some ex- some, some sort of workout where you depleted a little bit
Riley: Yeah. Yeah, you can drink it anytime, and the, the minerals that we put in our formula in particular are... They're minerals that you can't really overdo. So you can, you could drink as much of it as you want, and your, your body will just flush what it doesn't need. So that was kind of important to me to have, not have an ingredient in there that you could kinda overdose on, if you will.
I wanted to have everything, everything easy to digest. So yeah
Luis Heredia: Cool
Riley: Um
Luis, when you're... I wanna take you into, I wanna pick your business mind a little bit if I could. And you, you, you talked about buil- What's that?[01:18:00] 
Luis Heredia: because th-that, that Riley is... I don't wanna-- I-- Let me see what your question is, but I kind of have an idea. It's gonna be pretty cool answer. So what, what is the question?
Riley: Well, like anything, you, you said you, you moved to Hawaii and started to build your, your, your academy and built the largest program in, in the, in the islands there. And I just want you to kinda talk about what it takes to grow something from the beginning to the largest of its kind in the area because you're...
You know, there's-- I think people go into, into business thinking it just appears one day, but there's a lot of work to be done in there, right?
Luis Heredia: Incredible work. Well, there it goes. I knew this was going to be the question. It's kind of like somehow being-- [01:19:00] it's, it's formulated in the way that I'm gonna interpret it that, okay Now get to know a little bit of Luis. Like
Riley: Yes
Luis Heredia: I start doing jujitsu when there's no chance or option of being, famous. That was for the pure pressure of learning how to defend myself. And then number two, it became something really like the li- the lifestyle of jujitsu I learned very early it w- w- would be very beneficial to me. So this, this academy that I set, that I built, that would be one of the biggest jujitsu programs ever in the state Let me rephrase a little bit.
I was always the front of the business 'cause I have so much love, [01:20:00] respect, reputation in the game that, that nowadays I am trying to compensate A little bit what I haven't thought before 'cause jujitsu was just about lifestyle, happiness, training. I- to get to the point that I am, I n- I, I had help from really good group of students, mostly students from here. Some of them with way better business skills than mine. Some of them with way better understanding of real estate than I had. 'Cause let's put it again, here I am a Brazilian guy that really loves jujitsu. I never [01:21:00] thought about making money
Riley: Yeah
Luis Heredia: I should start to think right now because that's my time. It's with love. I teach jujitsu with all my heart. Everybody that knows when I walk into a, a mats to teach, the energy gets way high. I am real excited about it 'cause that's what I believe Now, definitely I would not be where I am as far as, as... E- e- even, even, even here, y- you know, like, like when I say this, like I built something really big, but Hawaii is very difficult place to survive So again, if I really want fortune, fame and I, and fame, [01:22:00] I think I would've stayed in Los Angeles, California,
Riley: Mm-hmm.
Luis Heredia: and would've like now have this huge school. But if, the, the if doesn't exist, what happened is life me, brought me over here. And on the beginning of Maui Jiu Jitsu, I traded classes for food, eggs There's no money here So I built something I want to live in Hawaii. Right now, the Luis from today, the Coral Belt, I outgrown this island. My level, my businesses, it should be... I should be able to reach way more people than I do it [01:23:00] here. So, so I don't, I, I, I, I really, I really, uh I just care about staying alive and staying put, having a place for my students to train and myself. And because of my commitment, my energy, and all of that, I kinda built something pretty big. Yet, it's not easy to have a business here in the state of Hawaii. So am, um It is, it, this is who I am. But I, if I, if I would've have decided to really kind of m- try and find of milking money out of people, I don't know if I would be the Luis that I am that you're talking to right now. You know? [01:24:00] I think whatever it's supposed to be, it's coming. 'Cause the knowledge, the experience, love for it, it's there And, but because I, because I have this feeling that I outgrown the business here, I, uh You know, it's, it's... I, I, and if I would've have done for the money, I don't know, I probably would be in a diff- like I said, again, I would be in a probably a little bit better financial situation than I am. I'm super happy where I am. I got [01:25:00] whatever God gave it to me, needs it. But business has never been my... That's, that's a good way. Business never been my expertise, never been
Riley: Mm-hmm
Luis Heredia: priority. It's kinda funky because I'm getting to the older age, right, you know, an older age, and, and, um, got to this far in jujitsu that I think I should a little bit think about it. It will happen. That'll
Riley: Well, you're, you're
Luis Heredia: more comfortable.
But, but I never, I never did testing, you gotta pay me money to do your testing. I never done anything that all these academies are doing They try to take money from all kinds of way, which I'm not here to say what, how you should run your business or not I'm just talking about, I p- we started your question and I [01:26:00] said, oh, th- th- this is how it is.
I'm so to people. I'm so honest about what I do and what I believe that perhaps is, perhaps I might be I think it's just in a phase of changing 'cause I know where it was, how I can, and how I do. And if I'm making this decision to kind of step out of Maui a little bit and go reached out to more people all over the world, especially in the mainland USA, I, uh, I think it's time, you know?
'Cause there is one thing- That I can get paid. I can get paid for my efforts now, for my love, for my honesty with people, for my [01:27:00] goal. So we'll see. But definitely I would not be here when I mean I built-- It was built over my work, over my name, over my belief, and my commitment. But if-- You know that very well, Riley, and if you don't have a little bit of people that have their little bit business savages oriented, it, it's pretty hard to make it.
So I, I had help
Riley: Well, I th- I think what I, I, I got a lot with, from what you said there because you're... Sometimes in business we have to make decisions that are not necessarily the most profitable decision, but they're longevity decisions, right? They're, th- they're just the right thing to do. And, and when we make those decisions, eventually it pays off, but sometimes it's not today, is it?[01:28:00] 
Luis Heredia: I don't think there is nobody in the world that can say, "Hey, Luiz is the kind of guy that I... All he thinks is about money. Oh,
Riley: Yeah, that's great
Luis Heredia: me and never pa-" So, you know, I don't think there is one person in this planet that could say anything except, "Oh, that guy Luiz, it's like, he's pretty fair. He's..." You know, I charge what I, I... It, it, it's, it's kinda crazy, Riley. It's, it's a subject that it's very Hmm. It's very delicate to me now that I'm aging, I'm feeling You know, but, uh, the fact there is nobody in this planet that can say anything bad about my relationship with money, that I took money, that I did this, that I did that, [01:29:00] that speaks volume of my personality in a sort of way, you know?
Like, in the, for the future, I'm like, "I'm gonna keep doing what I believe. I'm gonna keep being the jujitsu teacher, loyal to my students, to my teachers, to my friends," 'cause that's what I believe. However, I also know right now that the stage, phase, and status I am in jujitsu right now, I should be a little bit more
Riley: Well, listen, man, if
Luis Heredia: on how I'm going to compensate myself. Do you know
Riley: Well, if I-- I do, man, and if I can encourage you a bit in, in your journey right now, 'cause I've, I've been around you twice here in the [01:30:00] last few months, and I've heard you get choked up talking about relationships that you really are starting to understand the value of in your life. And it's touched me in a way 'cause I, you know, I watch you get emotional about it, and I, about the, those people around you who have helped you succeed.
But from a value standpoint and from a money standpoint, you know, you came to our school and did a seminar, and I thought you-- for the value you bring to students, I thought you very much undercharged for that. I thought, man, your, your level of skill and expertise that you bring even to a room with a bunch of black belts in it is, it's immense.
And I don't think sometimes a guy who's put the, the amount of his life into something that you have val- you know, really understands the value you bring. And so I, again, if that can be an encouragement to [01:31:00] you, man, you're... Yeah, you, you've poured some stuff into me that I, I think is, is way more valuable than the dollars I gave you to get that knowledge, ?
So keep it up
Luis Heredia: Thank you. I, I appreciate you. I really do. And you know what? Coming from you and you letting from your heart tell me that, it's like maybe I should not be embarrassed to charge a little bit more for my time, you know?
Riley: No, you shouldn't
Luis Heredia: it's what it is, it's my respect I have for people. It's like I know how m- some people, they pretty easily would pay what I ask, but some people are, like, putting together their money to come and see me. You know what I'm saying? So there is this level of, uh, respect that I have for people, [01:32:00] which it kinda takes a little bit of a small toll on my income. perhaps as I grow up older, I probably going to be able to How can I say that to justify what I really want to get paid? 'Cause it's never gonna be a absurd amount of money. You're never gonna, "Oh," you know. I'm, I, I'm so happy that you think I underpaid. I really am. And, and guess what? That doesn't give me no right of like, "Oh, the next time I'm gonna charge this much."
No, no, no, no, no. I don't see it that, that way. I see as a level of respect, and [01:33:00] man, I'm gonna take that, I'm gonna take that suggestion to a higher level. That doesn't mean I'm, you know... 'Cause it, it's like when I told you here right now that I- Naturally, I really feel that I overdid. I... That whatever I bring to the table here in Hawaii is... I think I could have, like, a way more opportunity. C- this is crazy. If I really It's a good way to put. If I think, if I keep wanna living my forever kind of cool lifestyle, I think this is the place to be. But if I really want to [01:34:00] capitalize right now in this next few years and make business out of my knowledge, I think I gotta step out of Hawaii a little bit
Riley: Well, and you've been doing some of that with the travels and the seminars you've been putting on, right?
Luis Heredia: Yeah, yeah, yeah. I'm trying to figure out what kind of doors are opening to me. You know what I'm saying? It, it's kind of like I'm, I'm leaving my doors open. I hope, like, people... I'm leaving-- I'm, I'm, I'm not stuck in- In an idea. I'm saying I'm, I'm-- 'cause I remember being here and hating going to the mainland, traveling that far and everybody fast, but then my mind is changing. It changed that, oh, I go there, I see everybody's so happy to see me. It's so cool to see all this bunch of new people that are like, "Oh my [01:35:00] God, M- Heredia." You know what I'm saying? I'm like... So I-- it feels like as far as, as far as being more at service, more productive That's the route that I should go
Riley: Well, you know, I've always viewed
Luis Heredia: I'm kind of like, um, I'm s- I'm spending, I told you that, but I'm spending more time, I'm spending more time than I sh- than I, I used to New Jersey shores now, now, right? We have a house there. We... jujitsu's kinda growing over there, and then they... I can see that people are really interesting in my knowledge over there, you know? So, but again, [01:36:00] wanna open a new school again. It's not what I
Riley: Yeah
Luis Heredia: I don't wanna go pick places and do everything again that I've done all my life. It's time to me to be more like a, a counselor, more like, um I don't know if counselor would be the wor- word, Riley, but more like kind of being more at service, going to places, talking about self-defense, teaching them jujitsu. Kind of like bringing a little bit of my D- d- my, my, my story into because it's pretty impressive sometimes. Like the-- my last week training My last three, four days training,
Riley: Uh-huh[01:37:00] 
Luis Heredia: I have to say pretty impressed for me. Me impressing myself, like how am very calmly applying the invisible that I kind of like it took me this long. So it's-- if I, if I can Through putting to the test, 'cause that's how it was. The... I done jujitsu so I put- I was put it to the test for so many times that I, I really do believe in jujitsu. When I was a purple belt, I got put inside like a marine fucking grabbing my neck, and I had to escape. So little stuff like that, it gives you so much confidence Because after those Marine guys, the amount of huge guys that tried to test themselves out against me, sometimes the other [01:38:00] day I was thinking, "Holy cow, man." I on- I, I remember only training with giants,
Riley: Yeah
Luis Heredia: I had to perform otherwise Gracie Jiu-Jitsu would not be in a sort of way what it is today So me
Riley: But we said
Luis Heredia: at six-- me at 64 training, I remember training yesterday with a guy that is heavier than me, a black belt,
I was training with this black belt student of mine, heavier than me. And now, like I said, me being able to control somebody to the point that they cannot much, it's equally submission to me.
Riley: Yes
Luis Heredia: At this age, if I mount on a guy that it's like not even supposed to let me mount, and I mount twice [01:39:00] this...
because of this application of weight. Nothing that I try, I, I, I, I, I just kept the weight to a certain... So, so the point was like something very cool. I remember when I, I remember when I, when I was a black belt, when I just got my black belt, I remember understanding a little bit of this weight distribution thing.
I remember, like, this one guy This one guy say, "Man, this guy 150 pounds. he's so heavy." Oh, it made me so happy, you know? Like, oh my God. You don't need to be 300 pound to feel heavy. So
Riley: Yeah
Luis Heredia: we're 37 years later I had a train with this guy and then he looks at me, he's like, "Fuck, [01:40:00] man, you look like you, you, you, you feel like you weigh 200 pounds." And he escaped and pow, I'm back on the mount. to me that it's like in my mind right now It's better than a submission
Riley: Yes
Luis Heredia: I, if I mount on anybody on the street, 230 pounds, and I... They don't escape, I'm winning.
Riley: That's right
Luis Heredia: nec- you don't necessarily need to submit someone feel like that you're winning. If you are controlling, you are winning
Riley: This is right Luis, do you ever start feeling, uh, just see, 'cause you've been doing jujitsu a long time, you're very skilled, and do you still have those days where you doubt your skill level? Like, [01:41:00] you know, when it comes to, uh, when it comes to you, you, you, you're gonna grapple a younger guy that's a bigger guy, and he comes walking in the, in the gym maybe for the first time, and you're...
Do you ever have that, uh, I don't mean doubt your skill level, but
Luis Heredia: No, I don't,
Riley: are you ever kind of surprised at the skill level you have?, 
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Riley: I guess is what
Luis Heredia: I don't put myself on that position anymore.
Riley: Uh-huh
Luis Heredia: If a kind of guy like walks like that, I got a bunch of like young black belts
Riley: got some young guys for that?
Luis Heredia: that I should do what I've done for them Right? However, the first part of your question, every time I go see Rickson, I doubted my skills and knowledge That is the craziest thing ever. single time I go see that guy, was times where I'm like, "Fuck, man, I'm not gonna tell him that because I don't want him to feel bad, but I feel like a white belt
Riley: [01:43:00] Yeah
Luis Heredia: Do you know what I'm saying? So
Riley: Oh, I, I, I 100% know what you're saying, yes
Luis Heredia: skills against, skills against when I go learn from him, I feel like that. But there is never one point in my life that, that my s- that I doubt on my skills based on this young athletic guy that walks into the gym and he wants to be tested. That's not up to me anymore 'cause I'm gonna save my energy for real thing. I know in my mind if that guy that walks into the academy picks up a fight with me, it's going to be one thing.
But me in the academy, I might get hurt because I'm gonna try to on time where I am no more. But I'm learning so many [01:44:00] other stuff that I might surprise this guy just going from tsk, tsk, tsk. Before would da, da, da, da, da. N- now if you go tsk, tsk Yes. If my students, this is like a really, really cool thing to me. If my students can tell me right now that they feel pretty threat and heavy when I roll with them, that's all I need to hear and validate myself. Pretty much all black belts. So if I can
Riley: Yeah, that's a fact. Yep
Luis Heredia: in-- If I can still doing that Now, I don't go for the kill. I haven't going for the arms or chokes or none of that. I'm going to the, like, [01:45:00] let me see. Let me, let me... And eventually, if the position comes out and allows me to submit, then of course I'll do it. But like I said, right now, stage of my life, health in mind, if I can't play the control well, I can't play the same control outside.
Riley: For sure
Luis Heredia: if I, if this guy, like we mentioned, walks inside the academy, wants to get test out, then it's not m- my skills being tested, it's my ego.
Riley: Yes
Luis Heredia: see if I can do what I used to do 30 years ago." Fuck, man. No, I don't think I can, but I can't disarm that guy with [01:46:00] words. I'm like
Riley: Yes
Luis Heredia: Or what do you think you would do to me? Now you think you would mount on me for real? You can try. If we keep it just like that game, can try mount on me. Do you know what I mean? But I,
Riley: I do. I do
Luis Heredia: it's still, it's still you bringing ego that equa- equation. It's like,
Riley: So
Luis Heredia: I
Riley: let me phrase, let me phrase it a little different because I, I... One of the things I struggle with, and I'll just, I'll just tell you, tell you what made me ask that question, is there's some times when I will grapple with someone who physically, athletically, age-wise are younger, they're fitter, they're stronger, they're bigger, whatever, and I'm surprised at, uh, my ability to handle that situation.
And I, I just kinda wonder if you ever get past that surprise, you know, of that, [01:47:00] "Oh man, I handled that one too. I guess, I guess this stuff works," you know? Do you ever feel that way?
Luis Heredia: What a great question. I haven't felt that way, I think I will. As time comes more and I'm like, I'm like, like become less... My ability perform would you slow down, and if I get to those points, I think I will. Right now, whatever good thing happened to me in jujitsu, I feel like I'm supposed to.
Riley: Yeah
Luis Heredia: Otherwise, I'm not leading by example. I'm just supposed to
Riley: It's beautiful, man
Luis Heredia: You know what I'm saying? It's,
Riley: I do
Luis Heredia: But I believe it might come to the time where I surprise myself, "Oh, I can still do this." Now
Riley: I
Luis Heredia: [01:48:00] to the point that I know I can do this. Do you know what I'm saying? But it
Riley: Yeah
Luis Heredia: one, two, three years that I'm like, "Oh, man, I don't know how much I can do this."
So but then, and then, like, but then, like, uh, drills are really good for that.
Riley: Yes
Luis Heredia: to a time where, like, the best thing for us is to be, okay, cross side, back and forth. Oh, switch cross side. Only cross side, back and forth. You, you know, you get to, you get to learn the same way. You don't really need to go to the full sparring 'cause you're not gonna be able to understand the whole picture
Riley: Mm-hmm.
Luis Heredia: as... You will be able, don't get me wrong, especially if you're a black belt. But you're gonna be able to understand way more the picture if you break down the picture into
Riley: Mm-hmm[01:49:00] 
Luis Heredia: If I
Riley: Oh, man
Luis Heredia: every day in opposed to that one kid I said, "Oh, Riley, you're gonna have two Rileys now. One that trains every day, and then the Riley that does drills every day." Okay. And then in one month we're gonna put one guy, one Riley against the other. Well, I believe that the guy that train-- the Riley that trains every day is gonna be ready to train, to roll, but I believe that Riley that works specific positions every day, if he get to those positions, he's gonna be able to control the Riley that trains every day much more. That make sense?
Riley: I, yeah, yeah, I, I tend to agree with that, yes
Luis Heredia: So, so that tells us [01:50:00] that drills are more important than free rolling. They're all good They're all good and they all got... should have their times, but if I put it in percentage, I would put drills to, to 70% and rolling to a 30%. 'Cause you can make the drill as hard as, as you want to. now hold it." You know what I'm saying?
Riley: Lisa, at this point in the podcast, I generally switch gears to some questions that are, um, just a little lighter in nature and a little more just fun questions. Um, can we move on to that?[01:51:00] 
Luis Heredia: Oh, yeah
Riley: Okay. Okay. This, uh, this podcast is called the, the Go Earn Your SALT Podcast. And, uh, when you hear that phrase, "Go earn your SALT," what, what does it mean to you?
Luis Heredia: Go... Let me see the shirt. Go earn your salt. G- go earn your salt. Oh my God, what a good
Riley: SALT
Luis Heredia: Go earn your salt. I mean Well, it comes, it comes down to one simple word, and thank God I really believe on that, which is work. You know, go earn your SALT is... It won't come to you, man. It is there for you. Whatever is yours is there, you gotta go get it
Riley: Beautiful[01:52:00] 
What is your favorite pastime outside of jujitsu, my friend?
Luis Heredia: My favorite pers- time is I have a few. I really enjoying, um, I really enjoying spending time in nature, either in my property or the beach or in the mountain. That's my favorite. And then, um, I like, I, I, I like, I like watching movies a lot. I watch movies a lot. I, um
Riley: Do, do you have a favorite?
Luis Heredia: Yeah, I like every-- I like most of genre, but I don't like drama.
Riley: Yeah
Luis Heredia: don't like horror. don't like much sci-fi, um, and romance. That's not really my favorite. My favorites are documentaries, [01:53:00] thrillers Documentary, thrillers, comedy. I love a good comedy and, uh, I love silly comedies too. And, uh, yeah, so I watch movies. I used to read a whole bunch. I haven't read much nowadays. But, but, but my favorite, I would say my favorite it's, it's stay close to nature, you know?
Riley: Luis, what is something, what is something that, uh, that's a little quirky about you that people don't know?
Maybe something people would be surprised to know about you
Luis Heredia: Something quirky. Um, [01:54:00] man, that is-- now you got me. Something quirky. I probably have so many quirky things, but, um Maybe cooking.
Riley: Yeah? You're, you like to cook?
Luis Heredia: cooking a lot, and then I have my, my methods. I, um, know, I, I really enjoy spending time in the kitchen.
Riley: Yeah. Nice
Luis Heredia: my favorite part of every house, the kitchen
Riley: Man. Well, this leads me
Luis Heredia: I love my living room, bedroom, and all of that, and bathrooms and all of that, but kitchen is a place where you spend a lot of time. I think kitchen is... It, it, it's, it's a very comfortable, [01:55:00] cozy community kind of a thing. It's, it's, you know, every time you're cooking with, with family and friends, it, it, it makes that situation special, more loving about it
Riley: Do you have a
Luis Heredia: uh, I don't know if being loving to an extreme is a quirky thing, but I'm, um And this loving thing comes a lot with that thing that I've been mentioning in my seminars, you know, that tattoo my son had, which is love all. It's so easy, man, 'cause if you love everybody, you love everything, you have so m- less resentment and more understanding what people are. Now, the second part is really important, which is trust few. The older I get, I [01:56:00] understand the meaning of that. Trust fewer, you know. You should not trust everybody, that makes so much sense. Perhaps maybe that was something that I was, uh I was m- way more open and to that, you know? Like, I u- I trust, trust so many people that became a lesson to me And, and, and, and some th-th-- this is one thing that changed about me because I understood lo- even though I've been always a loving person I would mix this loving thing with the trust.
So everybody that I love, I should trust. And then if that [01:57:00] person disappoint me, not only I would not trust, but not love them anymore, and that would hurt me. So if you keep loving that person and understand that, wow, there was a time frame for that person or for that situation to be in my life and it's gone.
So I don't know if you can understand because now I know why is loving everybody so important. Because you never carry grudge, you
Riley: Yeah
Luis Heredia: resentment. But That doesn't mean I'm gonna trust you.
Riley: Right
Luis Heredia: And then the last part of that thing, that, that tattoo is fear none, which is a really, really good one Because if [01:58:00] you do have respect for other people yourself, you're never gonna fear anybody. There's no reason. Jujitsu really taught me that I have no fear of no man, man,
Riley: Yeah
Luis Heredia: was done because of this self-defense thing So really, so I really like this love all, few. This trust few has been helping me a lot 'cause I've been able to things now. You know? You love-- You, you have so many good friends that you love them to the core. But You can't trust them all. Some of
Riley: Right
Luis Heredia: working with you. Some of them not gonna be... You know what I'm saying?
Riley: Mm-hmm
Luis Heredia: They, they, they, they, they, they [01:59:00] don't-- for that relationship is not as used to or were or it should be. But yeah. I, I, I hope I answered your question
Riley: Absolutely answered my question, plus some. I love it, man. So you love the kitchen. What's, uh, what's your favorite naughty food?
Luis Heredia: Oh my God, man.
Riley: Favorite thing you wouldn't eat every day, but man, you sure like it
Luis Heredia: I, you know what I eat every day the past year? Two, first thing I put it in my mouth every day after, after I have a glass of water with lemon. I, uh, I love boiled eggs
Riley: Yeah
Luis Heredia: with a little bit of salt. Yeah, that's really good food for me. Boiled eggs with a few, w- a- avocado or boiled [02:00:00] eggs with some nuts. And I love cooking all kinds of food. I l- I like cooking spaghetti and pasta.
I like cooking chicken, meat. I have probably a, I, I probably can do a rack of lamb better than anybody else in the planet, better than any good chef. First of all, I marinate it. My, my... F- first of all, I clean the whole rack of, the whole rack. I clean everything. I take all the fat out, and I marinate it for two and a half days with a lot of rosemary and, and, and, and thyme and s- and, and, and salt.
I use a lot of butter. And, uh, yeah, that's something I like cooking a lot. I, I like cooking pies, savory pies[02:01:00] 
Riley: Oh man, I love a good chicken pot pie. That's,
Luis Heredia: yeah.
Riley: that's...
Luis Heredia: then, and then what about, uh, I, I, uh, growing up on rice and beans in Brazil, I, I love my beans. And that's another thing. Beans, you gotta soak them for at least 12 hours before you cook, they would give you gases.
Riley: Which is n-not good in the jujitsu world, right?
Luis Heredia: No, no
Riley: Oh my goodness. Luis, do you have a favorite book?
Luis Heredia: Favorite book? I have a few, man. But, um, you know, I got so many favorite books. I love books, but, uh, "The Four Agreement" is a really great book to me.
Riley: It's called what?
Luis Heredia: read Four-- "The Four Agreements"?
Riley: No
Luis Heredia: book. Everybody should read "The Four Agreements." [02:02:00] And,
Riley: write that down
Luis Heredia: oh, I have a whole bunch. I have Breathe, I had, oh man, Life Is So Good, Journey of the Souls, The Light Between Us. Oh, I have a whole bunch Yeah, my daughter is, is reading a bunch of my books here, which great for her because, uh, I used to have a, you know, thank God I have a habit of reading since I was a teenager. And, um, but going through life and busy and stuff, there is times where book becomes obsolete. You don't have time until you cross path with that book that you need to read,
Riley: Oh, yes
Luis Heredia: So, [02:03:00] so the- I don't really have... "The Four Agreements" is a great book. You gotta read it, Riley. But I really don't have a favorite book because they all came in times where subject was related to the book. So pretty much all the books I read, it was I was craving pretty much I like, know, like self-help books. Those are the
Riley: Mm-hmm
Luis Heredia: the most. But I read all kinds of books, you know, after my, uh, after my son's passing. I, I, I got very deep on metaphysical and quantum and quantum and, and life after death and all that kind of stuff[02:04:00] 
Riley: Man, I didn't know your son passed away, man. I'm sorry
Luis Heredia: Yeah, my son passed away, um,
Riley: How old was he?
Luis Heredia: he was 29. It's gonna be now November 18, it's gonna be three years It was, it was, it was quite a punch. It
Riley: can't imagine, man
Luis Heredia: Yeah, it's, it's... Again, that's just part of my journey, his journey, my family's journey, and then And then the lessons that comes with the, the, the, the different kind of information in books that you try to understand better So to me, this process of people coming and going, it became way [02:05:00] easier. Uh, that student that you dedicate your whole life to them and then all of a sudden they're in different academy or they gotta go this or they... It's like, oh my God. I- we, we, we actually spoke about there, like maybe 20 minutes ago, which I said that, uh Everything has its end. Every energy, every, uh, you know... I see life in three different ways. I see everything, including people, business, everything has a reason Following up with a season and in some very unique case, a lifetime. So it's recent season and lifetime, you know? [02:06:00] That car, that car that you need so much because you need a car that to, to carry, to haul wood from here to there.
So you need to... The, the purpose of buying a truck now it's because you're really gonna need a truck. But then that truck Has this luckily worked for 10 years, now you gotta pass it on, you gotta sell. So it became a, a seasonal thing. You work 10 seasons Or you have that kind of, or you at one point you put that truck in the garage and you don't use it anymore, and you clean and you polish, and it becomes a c- a collection. So it's up, it's up to you to keep that thing for a lifetime. Same as with people. They're gonna come to you We met because of jujitsu.
Riley: Right
Luis Heredia: this [02:07:00] podcast of jujitsu. So the reason why you and I met is jujitsu. It's been a couple years that we know each other, perhaps even longer, so it's been a few seasons. So if from now on we always stay in touch, it might be a lifetime kind of thing. So it's so easy to see that people came for a reason. They spend this many seasons or no seasons with you. The majority of people that you cross on the gas station, the supermarket, that you trade words, it was a reason. So it's so much flowing on that part. And then the second part, it season. Now it's not that many And then perhaps [02:08:00] some of the situations people will stay a little bit longer lifetime, you know?
So It's so easy to me to accept that people that I teach, they gotta come and go and do their thing, you know? I, I no longer hold any, zero grudge on like, my God, I brought that person all the way to the black belt, so now he opens a school next door." Like, this all God work.
Riley: Yeah
Luis Heredia: God taking, taking problem away from you It's, it's, it's how, it's all God's work, man, Riley. All this whole thing. That's how I believe. So that has nothing to do with religion. That has high, that is a lot to do with this high level [02:09:00] spirituality that you develop, that you believe, that it's way more, it's way beyond this physical thing, you know?
Riley: Yeah. Man, I've, I've become convinced that
Luis Heredia: le-- it was a lot of, a lots of lessons from,
Riley: said, man
Luis Heredia: from, from, from a situation that I went through
Riley: I've become convinced that faith is a... You can, you can have faith that God's gonna do something. You can have faith when He doesn't do it the way you thought it should be done, and you can-- Both of those are still faith, right? We still, we still trust what happened there because we don't see the big picture, right?
Luis Heredia: Well, I, I, I, I actually been living a lot by the mode that, that word, that, that phrase that says, "Trust the process." We all, [02:10:00] when we first arrived in, in this planet, being delivered a doctor and we came through our mother's womb We already signed up for everything that is gonna happen. We just, we just don't walk with crystal ball. You gotta let life show you how it is, but everybody that came to this life, they came signing up, sign up for, for, for, for, for whatever they got to endure. That's how I believe. It's, it... 'cause sometimes the lesson is not You know, the lesson wasn't for my son. I don't know what he learned. I don't know what kind of world he is. I know that he's in way better [02:11:00] world than the one he was living here. But the lesson is for me. Out of the sudden, I understand the importance of kids there We just guide them, but we don't teach them. We learn from them. We just don't fail to see it. But reality is we are learning from them. So, so that's one thing I found out that my son, who actually was my number one teachers in this world, more than anybody else, which I, which daily I talk to and I ask for guidance and, you know. So [02:12:00] Our kids are, uh, they, they just came through us. But they, when they, they... Your son is already, uh, he was going to have you as a father, his mom as a mother, and, and you're learning from having that kid.
Riley: Yeah, for sure. Every day
Luis Heredia: you actually, you actually think you're teaching You just guide it. wishing them all the best, but reality is he's the one because to his thinking actions, you have to adapt and mold. So, "Oh, this kid doesn't do the way I want him to do it You're not doing the way he's-- he, he, he, he's-- he committed [02:13:00] himself to a contract with God to do it that way.
So e-even if that thing will hurt him, the lessons, going to be for him, but also for you
Riley: Yeah. Man, there's a, there's an old Bible verse that says to raise up a child in the way he should go and, and he will not depart from it when he's old. And that's what I've always taken that verse to mean is that you raise them up in the way they're kinda bent on the, their, their, uh... Yeah, sounds like that's what you're saying
Luis Heredia: Yeah, that's what I'm saying.
Riley: Man.
Luis Heredia: All
Riley: Luis, we're gonna, we're gonna bring it to an end from there, man. It's been such a pleasure talking to you, dude
Luis Heredia: good. I think we had a great talk, Riley. I think I, I enjoy spending time with you and, uh,
Riley: Yeah. I could do this for hours, man
Luis Heredia: all this external noises.
Riley: I, I haven't heard a thing, so
Luis Heredia: Okay. And, uh, I enjoy, I enjoyed talking to you, bro. keep
Riley: Yes, [02:14:00] my friend. All right. Go earn your salt, my friend
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