Chris Burns (That Guy): [00:00:00] I don't want to be on the internet. it sounds fucking shit, you know, 'cause I am, whether I like it or not, 'cause it's paying the bills and I've got a kid and I got another kid coming. So it's like it's a, a necessary evil for me because this is the last thing that I fucking like. But I'm weirdly okay at doing it, and I know that I can do something good with it. So that's what I'm trying to do, is not just like, you know, show up half-naked, rolling on the ground thirst trap shit. I just... I wanna be able to explain how Oopa fucking works, 'cause no one else did, spite So I'm glad it's helping.
I'm glad it's helping. Like, if you're watching any of it and it's helping you out, I hope it's giving you something.
You are listening to the Go Earn Your Salt podcast, brought to you by Salt Electrolytes. On this podcast, your host, Riley Rogers, explores the stories of people who get after it, get things done, and earn their salt. You will hear from [00:01:00] high achievers who discuss what makes them tick, how they got to where they are today, and where they're headed tomorrow.
Perhaps this podcast will help you go earn your salt
Riley: Today I have Chris Burns, or Chris Bones as he goes by on the Insta webs. And, uh, I, I invited Chris on here you guys because he, he has taken just recently, within the last couple years, explosive growth in the social media world and, and that's where I know of him from. And we had this cool little ex- uh, experience where I was flattered because he'd reposted one of my clips, and I got all excited 'cause, you know, the big guy's reposting my crap.
And, and I th- so that's, that's how Chris and I actually met, was just through that. And, uh, man, I, I've watched his growth and the way he has found his niche in the market, and I think from a business owner perspective, from a jujitsu athlete perspective, he's done [00:02:00] something that a lot of us will never do, and for that, I invited Chris on the show.
Chris, thanks for coming, man.
Chris Burns (That Guy): It's my absolute pleasure. My safe word is pineapple
Riley: Safe word, safe word. Gotta have safe words on here. Man, so tell us who you are, where you're from, what life was like growing up as a kid, like kinda what, what made Chris Chris?
Chris Burns (That Guy): Hmm. So, my name is Chris. I'm the, the guy, the... I don't fucking know. Uh, I'm the idiot from the internet. That was an accident, by the way. So my growth is like a hemorrhoid. It just, it just happened. I'm not in charge. So, fuck. up, um... I was born in Florida, grew up in Atlanta, spent most of my life in Australia.
I back and forth all the time. My youth was violent and weird, and I had a lot of fun, and I, I took to jujitsu So, uh, [00:03:00] th- here we are. I don't know. I wasn't ready. I thought this was gonna be like, "What's your favorite arm bar?" I... Fuck it. Just so you know, anybody who's watching this, I never know what I'm doing. It's like, "Hey, you wanna be on a podcast?" "Yeah, fuck it." I show up like, "So this podcast is literally about necromancy." Like, fuck. All right, I should've read a book. So this was like business. I was like, "I'm not a bus..." Ah, fuck. I'm here, thoroughly present. Um, I started jujitsu probably like 20-something years ago, as far as business is concerned, I honestly had nothing to do with what's happening.
I'm the product that they're selling, but I can probably tell you what they're, they're doing, 'cause they use really big words all the time. I have to
Riley: I love it.
Chris Burns (That Guy): fake it
Riley: Okay, two things. Well, f- first tell us, you, you, you said your childhood was, hood was violent. What...
Chris Burns (That Guy): So
Riley: Tell, tell me more
Chris Burns (That Guy): Okay. Um, growing up in Atlanta, [00:04:00] I never really shied away from violence. It was just kind of part of my youth. And, um, instead of kinda squirreling myself away from it, I kind of ran headfirst into it thinking that's how I would get good at fighting. Honestly, it's like everybody else in the entire world thinks that they're born a badass. And I was like, "Well, if I get in enough fights, I'll get good at fighting." It doesn't work like that. No, no one told me it didn't work like that for a very long time. I just kept getting the shit kicked out of me, and then I started looking into, well, how do I learn how to fight? And I, I went down a couple different avenues with friends, and there's no version of me that wants to get in, like, punched over and over and over to learn how to get punched.
Like, no one's teaching me how to move my head. So I found Gracie Jiu Jitsu through someone that I thought was smart, and he turned out to be a massive wiener. But, um, that's the story of Jiu Jitsu. Like 90% of the people that you meet, like, "Hey, he's an awesome person." "Oh, what a [00:05:00] douche." So I took on the idea that eventually I was going to do Gracie Jiu Jitsu, and I did. Whether anybody likes it or not, here I am. I just... I, I thought it was like one of those things where in my youth, it's on my to-do list of things that a guy should know how to do. You know? Like, I should know how to defend myself and take care of the people that I love. And then just going out and getting my ha- head caved in didn't really help. So I looked into learning how to do it, and I accidentally did a bunch of different shit until I found what I wanted, and now that's why I yell about it on the internet, because I don't need to know Z Guard
Riley: I always tell, I always tell students that, man. I'm like, "No matter how many times you get punched in the chin, it won't get better at not getting knocked out," right? It just doesn't get tougher
Chris Burns (That Guy): No. No,
Riley: love it
Chris Burns (That Guy): I've got my f- this, I was saying on the last one, I was talking to Bishop about it. I'm gonna find that photo. My friend's mom has a photo of me on a swing set [00:06:00] covered in blood wearing a "Dare to keep kids off of drugs and violence" shirt when I was like 17, like a cigarette and vodka. I'm like, "Yeah, Fight Club." I didn't understand it for a really long time, and it's taken about 20 years. And so I, I, I came in the hard way and the back way, and that's the name of my sex tape. So yeah, it took a long time to get where I am. could've
Riley: So this is, this thing that you're talking about here, man, is, is one of the big reasons I wanted to talk to you because whether it be jujitsu, martial arts, everyday life, or business, we freak- we find ourselves in these places where it's like, "Well, now I gotta figure it out," and we screw it up over and over and over and over again till one day something does kinda click and we're like, "Oh, there's a better freaking way to do this that doesn't hurt as bad every time I try," right?
And I... Everybody I talk to says the same thing. It's like they come to that realization 20 years in where it's like, [00:07:00] "Oh, there is, there's a better way to do this thing, man."
Chris Burns (That Guy): too. That's the-- and that goes for, uh, 'cause this is a business thing, that goes for business too, 'cause I got ripped off so many times. Um, I was ripped off in the art world, I was ripped off in the teaching world, and then I got ripped off in the jujitsu world. And the hard lessons that I learned was that like, uh, not everybody's there to help you at all.
Most people are there to just kinda like live off of you and tear you down, and if they extinguish your light, their light looks bigger and that kind of shit. Uh, it's, it's dark out there. There's not a lot of good people. So I, I make sure that I try to be a actual good person, 'cause I know I'm not, I'm a piece of shit, but I actually try to be a good person and lead by example, 'cause that's like the closest you can get, you know?
'Cause not everybody else is doing it. Most people are in it for themselves at all costs. And it's understandable, like maybe you got a family, maybe you got debts, but I don't know. There's, um, [00:08:00] not much integrity or honor in the martial arts community. It's mostly just ruthless business idiots that just wanted to have a job that they don't really have to work hard at, and they just make a ton of money off of affiliations and shit. So
Riley: you say that 'cause, you know, integrity's on every T-shirt
Chris Burns (That Guy): Oh, fuck. Yeah, loyalty and, and family and integrity and shit. Jesus Christ. Yeah, I've seen that like graffitied on walls in academies of places that have, uh, thoroughly fucked people over. um, whatever, I've got plants, fish. Um, yeah, I was gonna say like having a, having a friend and having a coach and having somebody show you the way, gold in what we do.
You know? Not just jujitsu, but in business. Like I have a friend who's like genuinely good at business, and he tries to help me. Every year he teaches me a little bit more. Every year I become a little bit more of an adult, and I start to [00:09:00] understand the financial aspect of what I'm trying to... Also, I get a talking to constantly by Michael about like, "You can't pay the fucking bills.
They can't see. It's dark." So li- I like how he yells at me. He's one of my favorite people to get yelled at by
Riley: So tell me who, is Michael the, you do a bunch of videos with him, is that who you're talking about, the you're okay in a lot of those videos?
Chris Burns (That Guy): Oh, fuck no. That's, uh, he's a phenomenal business... Will. Will is--
Riley: There you go
Chris Burns (That Guy): a good head on him. He's, he's an idiot, but I love him. He, um, know what is happening in that head of his, but he comes in spouting nonsense, and then all of a sudden he knocks something out of the park financially, like talking about, "We're gonna do this, this, and this because it equals this, this, this, and this."
And I'm like, "Yes, sir. Fuck. I'm gonna buy yogurt for my daughter." You know? Like, some people have a head for it. I don't. I, I moved the office. This, this is the, the closet at the academy closet. This is the staff room at the academy. And I moved my office [00:10:00] over here, and I found an envelope with thousands of dollars. That's how much I'm good at this. This is... That's how much I care about this. And literally, like, I pulled it out, I was like, "The fuck is this?" I was like, "Ooh. Fuck yeah. Yogurt." I'm not that guy, but I'm the product that those guys know how to sell, I guess. So yeah. Uh, the guy I was talking about is Michael.
Michael Casey, uh, is one of the, the founders of the RGU. So he's the one, uh, him and Scott putting all the, the working pieces in place, and I'm the billboard. Me and James are the idiots that yell into the wind.
Riley: Oh, man. I, I dig it, man. You've... So you've, as you've built this thing, and again, there's, there's, there's more aspects to this than I see, um, than, than anyone sees from the outside, which there always is. There's more stuff going on behind the scenes. All we see is the techniques or the, you know, the, the instructional videos or the things you put out [00:11:00] there.
But man, when it comes to building a product like that, talk about, talk about, I guess, what it takes, how much time it takes to build a str- an instructional. Say you're putting together one that's an hour long, and it's got... Y- we all view it like this easy thing, like you just sit down and just start talking and, and film it.
Chris Burns (That Guy): Yeah
Riley: talk about that experience, man, 'cause I, I'd love the audience to hear this
Chris Burns (That Guy): This, this is the part that a lot of, uh, guys get mad at me about because they're like, "I should be that guy." not, 'cause you didn't do it. Like, it's hard work. It's thousands of notebooks. It's, it's like the years that you put into the thing. It's all the time before the, uh, I'm gonna fucking do air bunnies on that 'cause the Internet's not fame. It's this, the lowest tier of it, of an influencer. If, if I could influence you to do anything, it would be to get off your fucking phone. But every [00:12:00] time I say that, they edit me out saying that. So like, I
Riley: It never makes it to the surface.
Chris Burns (That Guy): It never makes it. Everything that I wanna say, like, "Why don't you put it down and read a fucking book and like go for a jog, eat a fruit cup?"
And Sheila's like, "Delete, delete, delete." And Will, Will's like, "Just stay in your lane. Stay in the lane." They're like trying to g- like gear this ship so it doesn't crash at all times. Um, is in regards to what I've been doing and what I've been trying to achieve, day one, like from day one, I'd say around purple belt, I realized...
Sorry, I'm talking about jujitsu for anybody that doesn't do the, uh, jujitsu stuff.
Riley: Oh, they're used to it, man. I do it in every episode, so there you go
Chris Burns (That Guy): reali- Okay, well, it's like Joe Rogan. It's every fucking... Talk about elk meat in a minute. Um, the idea for me was I'm not getting what I wanted, DIY. I'm gonna do it myself because no one else is doing what I want to get done. I would just [00:13:00] eat a bag of dicks, and I would pay my own cash to make sure that the instructors that I wanted to learn from got to Australia. Like, that's what I would do. I wouldn't just sit around and like, "Oh, maybe I'll franchise with this guy and, you know, do this and this and this." Like, I don't see it as a business so much as I'm extremely passionate about the art that I love, and my passion became, uh, spite, and the spite became a business.
It became a brand because everyone keeps going like, "How did you invent the brand?" Like it's, I didn't invent shit. It's me. they did was film the guy that's always upset about you guys doing stupid fucking shit on the Internet that's not useful to anyone outside of this tiny little sphere of fucking people on a padded surface to be samurais. Everything that I wanted to know was so hard to get my fucking hands on, and I suffered a long time get to that knowledge, and then I suffered learning that knowledge. It suffered. I loved it. And [00:14:00] I, I accumulated as much as I could. I organized as much as I could, and then I taught. was my in- That was it.
That was the only idea. I'm gonna make sure that everybody gets the thing that I had to work so hard to get. Anyone that wants it, it's over here. Don't care if anybody's making fun of me. I got this. I got your back. Then someone filmed me, and that's what happened. That's it. That's all that happened. Somebody filmed me- The internet was like, "He's mouthy," and they started watching, and then people wanted more attention, so they started shitting on me to get more attention, 'cause that's how the internet works.
Riley: Yeah
Chris Burns (That Guy): guys are like, "He's a fucking idiot, ha ha ha," and then people are shitting on them for shitting on me, and I'm sitting here on the beach with a fucking cocktail, and you're all dumb. Not you. It's just most people on the internet are fucking dumb. It's just the stuff that she edits out. Um, what happened with that was I've been given the opportunity not only to just film and be present [00:15:00] and people know that I'm out there saying, like, "Here's the actual Gracie Jiu-Jitsu art. Here's the curriculum. I'm trying to teach it correctly and share this with everybody They started filming me filming that, and then it became, "Hey, do you wanna do an instructional?" Like, "Yeah. Yeah, I do." Let me go grab my 300 notebooks and reorganize how I present this product, because I want you to be able to not open it up and go like, "Back tack system."
Here's like three submissions and 20 minutes of talking, and then four submissions. Fuck. All right. Back tack system. Here's three things that have nothing to do with each other, and all of a sudden we're in half guard. That didn't make sense either. So I want it to make as much... Because I'm, I'm not smart, and I know that, like, not everybody out there is a fucking rogue scholar.
We're, we're not academics. I want it A, B, C. speak more word when few words work good? you, man. I'm not that smart, and I don't wanna pretend to be smart. [00:16:00] Just shitting on everybody. just wanted something to clearly explain what I'm supposed to be doing, because no one did for me. I'm just trying to do that, that, that YouTube thing, that guy that's, uh, on YouTube that says, "Ask Dad," know? And it's like,
Riley: I don't know if I've seen that guy
Chris Burns (That Guy): There's, there's a fucking cool YouTube guy. He, um, started a page called Ask Dad. So like if you have a question like, "How do I fix my radiator?" And you grew up, like, without a dad that showed you how to fix a radiator, he literally, like, shows you how the tools work, shows you how to do the move step by step, and then he goes like, "I love you." It's the best thing ever. Like it's so cool to see someone positive
Riley: Check that out
Chris Burns (That Guy): people. He's the shit, dude. He's the shit. So I just wanna do that but with more dick jokes because I can't not be me. disin- I don't like being disingenuous. I just am me on the camera. So if I yell about fucking lizard people in, uh, the clouds, [00:17:00] it's actually me coming through.
But I, I make sure that everything I do is thoroughly organized, and if I miss anything, I'll go film it and put it back in. Like I, I want all of this to be presented in a way that's clear and concise because it was never that for me. And a lot of the people my age will understand that because we had Nokia phones and like VHS tapes, and we were just winging this shit when we started. And there's a new generation that's like, "Where's your footage fucking sparring?" Like we didn't have a camera on us at all times, you know? I'm 45. Like I don't need to be rolling around on a slip and slide going for fucking leg locks all day to prove that I'm tough. Like
Riley: Oh, man.
Chris Burns (That Guy): bitch.
Riley: Well, Chris, you said, you said
Chris Burns (That Guy): fucking worst sport
Riley: You used the word spite earlier. So define that for me. So 'cause th-
Chris Burns (That Guy): Filled with it
Riley: there's an important direction I wanna take this, but, but talk about what you mean when you say spite[00:18:00]
Chris Burns (That Guy): Okay. Well, um, if I track it all the way back to childhood, I was adopted, so I have abandonment issues. So any po- any point in time someone's like, "Hmm, good enough," like, "I'll show you fucking good enough." Like, it's just the way, it's the corner I come fighting out of. Like, "Oh, I can't leg lock? I will leg lock." It's a whole thing with me. So that was a, not a today reference. That was like a 2000s reference. Like, you're not allowed to leg lock. I'll show you not allowed. So, excuse me. I've had a, a cold for like a week. I'm coming off of it, so if I keep blowing out everyone's ears, I
Riley: Oh, dude, it's going around here too, so don't, don't sweat it
Chris Burns (That Guy): it's rough, man. Uh, we're all gonna die. The, the idea of spite, it's kind of what keeps my blood thin and keeps me going, is it's not like I'm doing this for... Like, there's a part of me that's doing it 'cause I'm passionate about helping other people. But the beginning of all of this was like, "Fuck you, man. How dare you not have done this and just talk shit?" [00:19:00] people would make fun of me for wanting to learn how to defend myself in the sport of jujitsu. Like, now I'm gonna do it even more. I don't care about learning octopus guard. I don't care about doing this. I don't care about doing that. Like, because if you wanna win the game of jujitsu, great, you're gonna have to learn that stuff, otherwise that 20-year-old fucking high schooler's gonna... High school. 20-year-old high school, that 20-year-old football player is gonna power fuck you. Like, don't wanna learn any of that stuff. That's not why I started. I didn't start this to prove that I'm tough. I started 'cause I didn't wanna get my fucking head caved in anymore in a fight. And there's no version of me that's not gonna fight, so I might as well learn how to fight. And I just got stuck in this vicious cycle of like, well, if you don't do 600 chin-ups and learn how to do this, this, and this, you're never gonna be good at it. Like, that's not what I wanna be good at, and I don't think anyone's clear enough about this. So out of spite, mostly I've been yelling into the void because people have a tendency to back down when they're made [00:20:00] fun of for things.
Like, "Oh shit, I'm not part of the tribe anymore." issues. I was never part of the tribe. Like, I'm not losing out here. I didn't wanna be in your tribe. Your tribe is fucking awful. It's like "Mean Girls" but less fun. So it's, it's, I don't know. Just, just proving myself over and over again was a whole thing for a very long time, until I got old enough and ugly enough and wise enough to go like, "I really don't have to anymore." So most of my spite is, like, lower level now as opposed to, like, front of the line, "Fuck you." I'm okay. I've grown as... I did a little bit of therapy
Riley: Well, I think you've hit on something, and this is, you know, complimentary because there's something that I've noticed over the years that I, I start feel like is missing, and I think you've, you've kinda struck that chord with people that there's this thing missing in jujitsu, and that's, one, it's the simplicity, but it's really understanding [00:21:00] the knobs you can turn to make stuff work.
And we do everything, like, in a move, right? It's, "Well, here's a cool move." But if you really don't understand the real mechanics happening there, it's hard to replicate that thing, man, and hard to do it effectively in a live situation. And then you're just frustrated your whole career, right? And business is no different, man.
It's no freaking different. If you don't understand the knobs to turn, you're just gonna screw it up. You're gonna make a mess, and we've all done it. And so, again, what you're doing is really striking a chord because you're, you're, you're backed up. You've gone back to, like, fundamentally what makes this crap work.
And then you've got your snarky way of portraying that, right?
Chris Burns (That Guy): Yeah, I invented this entire persona just to sell shit I've been a absolute prick since I was a kid. Um, yeah, I, I've been kicked out of I think every school I ever went to. Um, I'm, I'm mouthy. So I think [00:22:00] my and my need for fundamentals to be explained easily, plus the fact that I bought too many Black Flag records and Gutter Mouth records as a kid, like that balanced it.
Yeah, like it just balanced it out for me. I think if I... It's nature and nurture. If, if I had listened to more Fiona Apple at a younger age, I'd just be crying in the shower right now instead of... No, she would've gone out. Nah, she would've fucked some shit up, dude, for real. She's, she's more punk rock than me. She dressed up as Joan of, Joan of Arc and took the, uh, the subway to a concert one time. Fuck yeah. Sorry, wrong analogy on that one. Joni Mitchell. There you go. but no, the, just the idea of the business side of this, I've always been, um, open to the idea of learning how these things work because if I want something to work, I want it to work. So I've had multiple instances in my life where I've sat down for like a private lesson, for lack of a [00:23:00] better term, on how to run a business and what I should do. And I think that's one thing that a lot of people fuck up is that they're not open to being wrong and, and asking for advice and help. if I don't understand something, I will stop the conversation, ask them to explain it to me like I'm a three-year-old, 'cause I wanna learn, I wanna grow, I wanna be a, a different and better person every single day. I don't wanna just sit around and be like, "No, I know everything." want to be wrong because failure and being wrong is like that perfect little like, uh, on the cusp of creation, on the cusp of something phenomenal that's about to come. It's like, um, fuck, uh, terrible, uh, 'cause somebody sent me a clip this morning.
I keep... Sheila keeps using "Fight Club" music in everything that I do and likening me to... Because she asked me like, uh, uh, what my favorite book was. I was like, "Fight Club." I love that book because that's not the movie, and I love the movie. the, the book is great 'cause he builds the, um, [00:24:00] uh, shadow of a hand on the sand that sits in the palm of his perfect creation for like two seconds and then it's over. Fuck yeah, man, I want that two seconds. And every time I fail and try and fail and try, I end up with that two seconds of perfect creation where I get to sit there and like look upon what I've done like, "Oh, fucking A, man. I did..." Shit, next thing, get like distracted. You can't in it for that long, but it's worth it, you know? So going out of your way to learn new things and failing at them constantly always kind of full circles into that one moment of, "Fucking A, man. Perfection." At least
Riley: Yeah, and
Chris Burns (That Guy): I'm sure
Riley: that's a cool analogy.
Chris Burns (That Guy): bliss Have you
Riley: That is a cool analogy
Chris Burns (That Guy): He, he drags logs up the sand on a nude beach and buries them in the sand. At a specific time of the day, the shadow of those logs make a perfect shadow of a hand, [00:25:00] and he sits in the, the hand. And then the time passes, like a minute later, and then the thumb's really short and the fingers are really long, and it's not perfect anymore, so he just jumps in the water and washes the sand off. That's how they meet in the book. The... I'm not gonna ruin it for you. You can't ruin it. It's like 20 years old. It's an old fucking movie. It's one guy meets his alter ego on the beach, on a nude beach somewhere. So fucking phenomenal book. It's so funny. So,
Riley: I mean,
Chris Burns (That Guy): and
Riley: technically even talking about the book is breaking the first law of Fight Club, so there you go
Chris Burns (That Guy): I didn't talk about the club itself or what we do. It's Project Mayhem now
Riley: This,
Chris Burns (That Guy): it. Worth, worth your time to read that one. It's a short read too
Riley: So go back, uh, back up a little bit to where, where I asked you about these, these instructional videos, right? And talk about just the nuts and bolts of what it really takes to, to build one. 'Cause I, I,
Chris Burns (That Guy): Okay
Riley: I wanna talk about this, [00:26:00] this like... When you, when you go to film something, dude, and you've got this great idea going on in your head, but you gotta find a camera angle that actually fits that, and then you have to do 15 takes in order to get, to actually show the thing that you're trying to, the detail you're really trying to express, and we...
Can we go there?
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Chris Burns (That Guy): 15 takes. Sh- yeah, we can definitely go there, but I'm not doing 15 takes. You get one take. There's, uh, there's, uh, lightning in a bottle.
Riley: Yeah
Chris Burns (That Guy): when we film these things, it's literally, it's my life. It's what I do all day, every day. I don't... Like, this isn't my hobby, so I'm not gonna come in once a week and have a roll around on the ground.
Like, I live and breathe this by choice for over two decades. It's all I do all day, every day. I used to get up at, like, 3:30 in the morning so that I could start driving to be able to get to jujitsu at, like, 5:00 a.m. and start stretching my back because I broke my fucking spine so I could do the 6:00 a.m.
class, and then go to the pool to do the fucking 10:00 a.m. class. I stayed there all day, and I put a hammock in the corner. This is all I do. I fell in love, and it's what I do. The accumulation of knowledge, that's the hard part [00:28:00] because you can't just like, "I'm gonna do an instruction." All right, on what?
Riley: On what? Right
Chris Burns (That Guy): that I've... Yeah, because everyone's got a, a goofy fucking opinion on something, you know? And the only way that you can actually Really set the stuff in stone. Like, I want it to go A, B, C, D. Not but maybe B, maybe C, but then A again. Like, that's confusing. I wanted to make sure that one thing led into another, so that was the first part.
The first part is sitting down for years, like organizing and, uh, making sure that these things fit together correctly so that somebody else can understand the way broadly instead of like, "Here's a move, fucking figure it out, jackass." Like, "Go power fuck it. Make it work." Like, you shouldn't have to power fuck to make something work.
Like, you can add that to it later. Goddamn, I just took a very beautiful quote by Helio and Rickson and said, "Power fuck." Sorry. I'm the worst [00:29:00] fucking instructor. Um,
Riley: quote? Give it, give it to us the real way
Chris Burns (That Guy): the quote-- Helio, I just posted a video. He's like, "You, uh... I envy you. Like, you, you have strength, but I don't. I don't have strength. I have to use the leverage and the angles to make this work. You can use the leverage and the angles, and then you can add your strength to it, and it'll make you unstoppable." And it's beautiful, and Rickson says it in a different way, and he says, um, was it? "You take your strength and your speed and your flexibility and you put it on a shelf, and you use jujitsu. And when you're in trouble with your jujitsu, you reach over and grab some strength and add it to your jujitsu." not a lot of people are listening when I say that. It's like they're all, like, mainlining HGH into their balls so they can win something. It's the angle and the leverage and the connection and the base, and these invisible aspects that create gentle art, not scrambling for submissions as fast as we can to prove that we're young and tough. The gentle art, [00:30:00] the actual jujitsu is applicable for everybody because it's weight distribution and connection. can add your strength and your speed to these techniques, then I said something about power fucking, so I ruined everything for everyone, which is kind of what I do There's so many guys out there that hate me. How did he get into this position? By
Riley: They, they will love you when they turn 45, dude, and, and understand that that body doesn't move the way it used to
Chris Burns (That Guy): Man, I can't stress that shit enough because when you're 26, you're immortal, for real. Like, I was like Tom and Jerry, fucking let's see how far I can go until this shit breaks. And then when it breaks, all of a sudden you can't move anymore. You're like, "Oh, I have to use technique now." And then I started using technique. I was like, "Oh, where was this when I started?" one taught me technique. They're just like, "Bend that shit the wrong way until it pops." He'll say tap or he's not-- Then he's a bitch. It's a whole thing, man. I came from shit, and I'm never nice about [00:31:00] this. Like, I'll never name where I came from because fuck you, abandonment issues. So like, I, I-- 'cause I get personal messages like, "Why won't you ever fucking talk about where you came from?" Like, "'Cause you suck. Fuck you, dude." Like, no, I'm not happy about where I came from. It could've been way better, but there's a part of me that loves where I came from. Same as like, I like walking around Atlanta at midnight. I could die. I still like it, you know? At least in the '90s. It's probably super gentrified now. Um, for me, n- that's where the spike comes in as well. You know? Like, I wanted to organize all of these things, and I wanted to present them clearly. And now setting up the cameras and things like that, that's the business side of things.
That's a BJJ project. They bought all the equipment. They brought it in. They, they set up the lights. They picked the angle, and they said, go, idiot." I was like, "I'm on it." That's it. They-- Because people keep asking me about the suitcase, by the way. So they're like, "How did you think of the suitcase?" [00:32:00] I didn't. So there's a product that they've been selling called The Suitcase, and it's like the bare minimum of everything that you should know if you go to a gym. Like, knee on belly. Here's how to get out of knee on belly. Here's mount. This is why we mount. This is what you should do in mount, which is what no one fucking says. walk in and they just do positional sparring, and if you do like a beginner's class, the beginner's class, they treat you like a child. It's-- It depends, 'cause I've been around a long time, and I've been to a lot of academies, and I'm sure there's an academy out there that's doing really good, but most of them are terrible. it's just a padded surface sometimes where people are just wrestling around for submissions that they saw on the internet. And even back in the day, it was a padded surface sometimes where people were wrestling around for submissions they saw on a VHS tape. And it just keeps going back to where, like, we were on dirt and, like, one guy yelled one thing and we kinda sorta got it. This is such a hard [00:33:00] thing to get good at outside of the sport because the sport, you have some very specific parameters. The second you step out of sport land, it's nothing but what if land. Like, does he have a knife? Like- there multiple attackers? There's so many more open scenarios that we have to worry about rather than like, "All right, we're in a pit now." Fuck, that's cool. I can jump up a pit and do a flying triangle? Fuck yeah, that's awesome. Like, that's the fun one that you can just like- I don't know, squirrel away like 10 years of athleticism and have a blast and get a bunch of medals, and then you go on with your life. then you're like, your, your knees pop and crack and you're an instructor that doesn't know how to teach. You're just living off of your previous glories. ooh, like all the laurels are on the wall like, yeah. Like, man. When I film stuff, I wanna make sure that I'm preserving something that it took me over two decades to find, and I'm teaching it as clear as possible so that you understand it [00:34:00] rather than just see it and try and fake it. And like, I have to push my left hip forward and pull my right shoulder back for this to work. If I don't do that, it no work now. So things like that were priceless for me, like finally being able to be taught something correctly, not just ecologically fucking wing it and then the athlete wins. So that's important to me.
Uh, it's not important that I shit on ecological. I just like saying the word. It's like when I say Choi Bar or Tarak AfLota, I'm not shitting on the person. They're like both lovely people. Tarak AfLota guy is
Riley: Yeah
Chris Burns (That Guy): I like him. I just like saying the words 'cause they're funny.
Riley: Do you...
Chris Burns (That Guy): Uh,
Riley: This, this idea, this idea of a, of a, a world champion who comes in here to win e- or win every medal or ribbon or belt that there is to win, but then he comes in and he can't teach, right? Talk about that, 'cause that's a...
Chris Burns (That Guy): his fucking shoes.
Riley: Oh, my gosh, man. So there's that thing, though, that happens with every- everybody.
It happens in, with athletes and it [00:35:00] happens with, with businesses where somebody's a really good technician, man. They're an electrician who can twist wires together, but then they start their own thing, right? And they can't run the business. It's like a different skill set. What's say you about that?
Chris Burns (That Guy): from "Community." Troy from "Community." Like, he's naturally a wonderful, uh, electrician. yeah, I've got friends. I've been around for long enough to have a ton of sport friends that don't s- hate me because everyone thinks I hate sport. I came up in the sport, and I got a lot of friends that did the sport, and I just took a different direction 'cause, like, fuck you, dude.
I d- I don't like it, and we're still friends. some of those guys are amazing athletes that have won titles that I don't even remember the name of, 'cause they were, like, the biggest, coolest person for, like, two weeks. They cannot show you how to tie their fucking shoes, man. I remember asking specifically one time a friend of mine like, "How'd you do that?"
He's like, "I stood up." I was like, "What do you mean you stood up?" Like, "I stood up." [00:36:00] He couldn't do it when I stood up. I was like, "How did you stand up, though? He was on top of you." "I stood up. How hard is this?" I'm like, "Hard. It's hard.
Riley: Yeah.
Chris Burns (That Guy): jacked. I can't just stand up." doing like... Anyways, like, finally I figured out what he was doing. Had to reverse engineer it myself, and I was like, "Ha, I can finally do this," but it's not the smartest option, so why would I do it? So just the idea of being a ph- phenomenal competitor, like, it's the same as being a coach. Like, people look at coaches like, "This coach is like my dad, and he's also my psychologist, and he's, he's my brother."
And like, y- you see, you put all these hats on this one thing. No, it's just a person. It's just a human, and they're just as flawed as any other human. So when I look at a, a champion, like, yeah, it's a champion for now.
Riley: Yeah
Chris Burns (That Guy): trust me. So, like, y- I'm not gonna go and ask that champion, "How do I do my taxes?" Just like I'm not gonna go and ask the coach about my love life. Like, it's the Joseph [00:37:00] Campbell primary and secondary, like, father figure kind of thing that people have a tendency to... Well, men have a tendency to kind of fall into that funnel of like, he can help me with my girl troubles. he could teach me how to be a good coach." No, man, like, everyone's different, and they all have their skill set. So I literally went to school to learn how to teach jujitsu. That's why I'm good at it, and I also don't follow the script, and I have stage presence, which is more nihilism than anything, I blame punk rock for that. I, um, honestly, I, I think my early youth hip hop and punk rock in Atlanta what got me to the point where I can just say shit. And then, um, also I started teaching as a white belt. So, like, I've had stage time for a very long time. Industry experience is what they used to call it in the art world, of industry experience. Sure, I can teach at a [00:38:00] university. Fuck yeah, I've got industry experience. So when it comes to competition, I bet they could teach a lot of things about competition But not teach how to teach a lot of things about teaching competition. So there's layers to edification. Mm.
Riley: When, when you're You said you went to school for, to teach, right? Will you expand on that a little bit?
Chris Burns (That Guy): Fuck yeah, man. Because I never give them enough props. Um, I, I work for, like, I, I am certified by and I teach Rickson Gracie. I was working with Gracie University for a chunk, and I genuinely admire how they organize and teach classes, how they present. The product itself is correct, but I prefer Rickson's of the product, so I felt it was disingenuous to work with and for them. [00:39:00] honestly what happened. There's-- 'Cause people on the internet love, like, a big uproar. There has to be some kind of feud. Like, no, I just didn't agree with the product. I don't think they're bad people. I think they run a wonderful business, and I honestly, if I had a choice to put a student in another academy, I would go to a Gracie University.
Like, I don't know, man, they got a lot of medals over there. I would go to Gracie University. Trust me, they know what they're doing, and they're very good at what they're doing. They're really good at power fucking. If you wanna go be a power fucker for six months and then blow your back out, you go get them, tiger. recommend this. So when I was working with them, I did, uh, the instructor certification process, the ICP, if anybody knows the reference for ICP. Ah, so many jokes for the last few years. Anyways, um, I'm now a Juggalo, and I had a wonderful time learning how to teach, and I honestly learned more about teaching [00:40:00] them than I think I've learned from anyone other than Rickson. How Rickson teaches is not how they teach. Rickson teaches, how he's taught me how to teach I think, closer to the lane of how I teach. But honestly, that, that Gracie University, they got their shit together. So being taught how to teach was a huge moment for me, and then
Riley: Mm-hmm.
Chris Burns (That Guy): and becoming a, a certified instructor, et cetera. I think it's, um, it's a noble goal to be able to pass down the art correctly as opposed to, a variation on Instagram that I wanna try, so g- come here, white belt. Maybe this is what we're doing now. I don't know." I don't know. It's a, it's a shit show out there in all the academies.
Riley: It's, it's wild to me because I, I, you know, I just totally see it that way. I was, I was asked, I was a purple belt when my, my coach asked me to take over some classes for him while he, just while he traveled, right? And then one day he was traveling and [00:41:00] passed away on his trip and didn't come home. I still teach those classes, right?
And so it's a tragic story. Oh, I appreciate that, man. But yeah, it was a terrible thing, but that was the thing that really got me started in the teaching world, right? And man, I learned right then. I was like, "This is a different art form. It's a different art form from what I've been learning." I can, I can be the technician who can do the, the activity.
I can, I can do some jujitsu, you know, but holy crap. I couldn't teach a class, man. I remember the first time guys started asking questions, and I couldn't answer. I was like, "Man, I, I don't... I need to go home and look at this and study this." And they'd ask some questions, and, uh, that, that challenge for me became like a, almost like a drug, man.
It's like, how do I do this better? And, you know, since then I've taken some instructor courses in, in how to teach and that sort of thing. But, um, but it's still winging it every day, man. Still, still learning. It's
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Chris Burns (That Guy): Dude, I remember, um, one of the instructors there told me to start taking acting classes. I was like, "The fuck are you talking about?" And then they were talking about neurolinguistic programming stuff, and I was like, "Ooh, that's dark and weird." But like, honestly, there's like, uh, the, the idea of using crossfade and asking students to answer questions.
There's a lot of techniques to this, and you can go down a very creepy rabbit... Ooh You can go down some really creepy rabbit holes on how to teach and how to communicate with people, and you can use that to your advantage in, uh, any way that you want. So it's a, it's a dark power to have, especially when you use the cadence in your voice.
Fucking weird shit to learn. just the idea of preserving and passing down knowledge to a future generation is what keeps me here. uh, 'cause I see things getting goofy, [00:44:00] it's all right, and you can hate me for saying it's goofy, but, like, you've lost the purpose of one very specific thing, and I wanna be able to share why. Instead of saying like, "No, you just don't do that," like, I don't like those arguments. I like to be able to like, "No, you don't do that because of this, this, this, and this. I'm smarter than you. Stop it." Like, uh, Ron Swanson in the, uh, in the Home Depot. Like, "I know more than you." Fucking love that. So, um, regards to being able to preserve and teach, found over the years that I, I still use a lot of the Gracie University techniques when I'm running classes, but I also use a lot more of Rickson's techniques when I'm starting to... Like, "Don't let me. Don't let me." That's a whole thing, just those few little words. Those few little words change everything. And the way that Helio and, um, I, I, I would say like, uh, the Valences, like how they're teaching their students, [00:45:00] they're teaching them than a martial art. They're teaching them, like, a way of life.
And I always bring up Vinny every fucking podcast about this. Like, he grew up with the Gracie family, and when I watch him teach It's different. know? It's, it's not about just showing a move and then we're gonna fucking roll around on a padded surface and pretend to be samurais. It's different. The way he builds up your, your confidence or he breaks it down a bit.
Like, "You're already strong. You don't need this. You need to do this, this, and this. I know you're stronger than this in here. We can build on this." I love that so much. I'm still a
Riley: Hmm.
Chris Burns (That Guy): learning how to do this, and I, I consider Vinnie to be one of my, like, highest instructors. Having him teach me how to teach like this is an honor, you know? And it-- like, Rickson pinning me against a wall and saying, "You're ugly. I don't like you. Stop it. You can't come here." Little things like that to build confidence for kids. I'm like, "I'm not [00:46:00] ugly. Fuck you, man." Like, the, the, the, the way you teach a student, don't know. I'm still learning. I'm still learning the way that they do their thing, and I admire it greatly. You know? But the, the way they present and organize is more Gracie University, and that's my thousands of notebooks of, like, class structures, how I present, what I present, and when I present, how much time I give in between movements before the student needs to go on and do another thing. I don't know. Um, it's a work in progress, but honestly, it's a-- everything's a remix and everything is a, a, an homage. I'm always trying to do the best of what came before me in my way, and I think that's the best you can do, 'cause nobody gets to be completely inventive. You have to take what's given to you, and you have to work with it and mold it into your style, Not in a good way
Riley: So man, you, you, [00:47:00] it's so fascinating to me because there's, there's something you were saying there about, you know, you, you, this homage to what was before you. When And I'm gonna take this down just down a grappling path, 'cause I don't know how else to do it, but I have felt what coral belts feel like when you grapple with them.
And when those suckers connect to you, man, it's like, oh, something different's happening here. I didn't, I didn't realize this is what he was talking about. And when you feel it, it's, it's like
Chris Burns (That Guy): at this fucking day and age.
Riley: Oh, right. Yeah
Chris Burns (That Guy): that up. Some, some absolute wiener said that one time. Like, "He would be a purple belt these days." Like, oh, you fucking idiot.
Riley: Yeah, you don't not know what you're talking about, man
Chris Burns (That Guy): Yeah, people, people blow up mountains 'cause they can't be bothered climbing them all the time, man.
Um, in regards to that, like, [00:48:00] feeling knowledge, like, not strength, knowledge. Like, fuck, man. There's so much to be gained from this art that a lot of... That like, I wanna make sure people understand that there's so much more than just a move held together with duct tape and steroids. Like, this is a special art
Riley: Held together with duct tape and steroids, Battle of
Chris Burns (That Guy): No, fuck, I'm not talking about like the big dogs that are taking steroids at the highest level of competition. Like I'm sure some of them are duct taping some shit. But you've got people that are looking up to you and they think that they can possibly do that, and they're jamming fucking drugs in themselves like, "Yeah, no, the USDA said it was totally fine to fucking take this." And he's like, "I'm gonna be a champion." But no, like they, they have like physical issues for the rest of their life and a bunch of fucking medals on the wall. Way to go. Fuck, dude. Like I don't know, I see this-- Somebody wrote on the internet the other day, which sometimes there's [00:49:00] some gold. Someone said like, "I see jiu-j...
I'm reading jujitsu from a completely different book." And I was like, "That sums it up really well." I th- I think it's, there's, there's a huge fucking difference between was originally intended and what it's become, and just douchey enough to be happy with you making fun of me. Like, your boos encourage me, you fucking idiot.
Like, "He sucks." Like, "Yeah, I know, right?" This is the one that should be for-- It should be-- I know jujitsu's for everybody, and you can go upside down and do fucking cool moves, and that's for everybody too, but those numbers dwindle really fast, you know? Like there's a lot of injuries, and there's a lot of time off, and there's a lot of recovery, and then all of a sudden you're literally going to clien- clown college to learn how to do exercises that you can do the move that the other guy did that's half of your age and on a ton of fucking HGH. The actual art of jujitsu is worth [00:50:00] preserving because it's for everybody, and I can pass it down to a soccer mom just as... I lo- I love Vinnie. Vinnie's the fucking best. Like, like, "You think you're so good at jujitsu? I'll beat the shit out of you." He's like, "My friend, I teach elderly ladies how to get out of headlocks. I don't want any trouble." He's one of the baddest motherfuckers I ever met, too. He's a good fighter. Like, "My friend, I don't want any trouble." I love those guys. It's the mouthy ones, man. Mm.
Riley: Gosh
Chris Burns (That Guy): But no, so fun, you know? I, I'm, I'm enjoying this whole accidental brand, 'cause it'll fade. Everything does. This'll disappear like next week. I'll be back to being anonymous and teaching jujitsu by the beach, which is exactly what I was fucking happy with. So I, I'm just riding the internet train for as long as I can to keep spreading the word to go to Hicks and Gracie dot... hicksand.academy instead of my brand, 'cause my handlers fucking hate me for that. Sure, go buy my stuff. Um, and, uh, Hicks and Gracie United. Hicks and Gracie United is [00:51:00] the be-all passion project that I've been gearing towards for I think probably 15 years.
Riley: Talk about that a little bit, man, 'cause I- that guy has not put enough stuff out in my opinion. I know it's a lot of work and, and life, but I'm like, man
Chris Burns (That Guy): you can't... Mm. That's the thing, man, you can't-- 'Cause I get shit on the internet all the time. You got like black belts from down the street like, "Art, fuck you." He's like, he's down the street and he hasn't come in to fuck me yet. But like, just shitting on, like it's, it's snake oil. It's bullshit.
It would never work in the highest level of company. No one cares about your competition, you know? Like, you care, and I'm sure some people care. these basic things can't be seen so much as they can be felt, and that's the term invisible jujitsu. So there's, I know there's sport dorks out there like, "Invisible jujitsu's like a sales pitch."
Like it is to you, 'cause you've never felt it. You have to feel it to understand it. And it, I think I explained it pretty fucking [00:52:00] clear. Push hip bone, pull shoulder, no pull down now. I didn't use big words. There's no juxtaposition of the photosynthesis, the, the power line J curve. You fucking push and pull at the same time, you don't do the move. That's, it's this effortless part of the arts that Rickson spent his life refining and then passing it down. He didn't film it because he-- First off, have you heard him teach? Like it's broken English, Portuguese. So like there's
Riley: Yeah, it's difficult, right?
Chris Burns (That Guy): in the way. It's difficult for some people. Not for me, I speak fluent fucking Rickson.
I speak full emoji. Like every time he opens his mouth, I hear exactly what-- He texts in emojis and I love it. It's the most efficient way of responding. I love it to death. So I literally like, it took a while for me to really start to focus in on how he would show something and how he would say something, but it sinks in fast for me. Like it, I, I understand my wife when she yells at me in Italian. I don't know what she said, but I understood. [00:53:00] It's the same kind of thing. I get exactly what he wants, and he's like, "No. Yes." Got it. I'm on it. Feel me? "Yes." Got it. All right, I explain it in words now. My job is that. My job is to perpetuate this. He didn't film stuff until like COVID, and then when COVID happened, it was like Joseph, uh, Salinas, black belt under him, wonderful guy, Cass- Miss Cassia, wonderful woman, uh, they're filming with him, and he's, he's filming the fundamentals and the foundations and stuff That was the beginning of everything for me because like you wanted the story on this, the RGU?
Riley: Yeah, man, bring it
Chris Burns (That Guy): I got hired by a rich guy to run a vanity project in the desert, and he's like, "Come out here and we're gonna do this, and we're d- we're gonna do this, this, this, and this, and this." None of those things happened, and I'm sitting there like with my dick in my hand like, "Oh, all right. I had plans, so now I have to figure out [00:54:00] what I'm gonna do next with these plans," because I'm already working with Rickson and, like spending as much time as humanly possible understanding exactly what he wants taught. Not what I want, not my questions. Like, how do I deal with the, uh, berimbolo? Like, no. How do you want me to teach a beginning student how to fall? How do you want me to teach, uh, this weaker person how to get out of a headlock and this stronger person how to submit... This per- like, these are genuine questions for the art, not for personal gratification. and every once-- every-- all of that's personal gratification for me, by the way. So, like I win either way. So I'm, I'm stuck in the desert like trying to build someone else's hobby project, I'm thinking to myself like, "There's something bigger here. I gotta get the right people in the room with me to build something even bigger." And then I found the, the people that I liked working with and the people that could commit to the project, and we all kind of banded together and started something, and we kept kind of gearing [00:55:00] more towards the idea of like, okay, everyone deserves this, and Rickson like deserves a retirement plan of some kind for the love of God, 'cause he's teaching every fucking day.
T- and it's not because he needs the money. He's teaching 'cause he loves doing his job. But one day, you know, eventually he can't physically do this stuff anymore, you know? So let's make sure that we got his back. That's it. So we started up trying to accumulate... Scott and Michael did the heavy lifting then. They did all the stuff. And the rest of us were being taught how to teach, you know? We're just kind of politely standing there pretending to be smart. Scott and Michael are the smart ones. they're the ones that have been certified or are in the midst of being certified. W- we've been taught what to teach and how to teach it and how to preserve it and pass it down. There's gonna be more layers to this, but since that was done, Rickson.Academy, his website where all that stuff is, 'cause there's Geller with the SDU, [00:56:00] and the SDU is a, a culmination of that book that's behind you underneath the green light, through Helio's, um, taught through Rickson's perspective.
Riley: Traction, is that what you're talking about? Is that the one?
Chris Burns (That Guy): totally. That one. Yeah. Okay, let's
Riley: Traction? Is that what it's called?
Chris Burns (That Guy): bond... I like the bondage one. That's a good one. Nice
Riley: No, it's, it's... Beyond. Beyond, my friend, not bondage.
Chris Burns (That Guy): What?
Riley: this the book you're talking about?
Chris Burns (That Guy): I'm gonna have to tell you, it might be up one shelf with that big Gracie name on it, underneath
Riley: Oh, you...
Chris Burns (That Guy): jujitsu belts. Yeah,
Riley: did that on camera, didn't I? You're talking about the actual Gracie that belongs to the guy who we're talking about. Okay. Yeah, that guy
Chris Burns (That Guy): I think, uh, traction. Tell me more about traction. I feel like that was a segue
Riley: We were talking about systems and then we went, we got into there and s- and that, that book is like my, my go-to for anything systemized, so, um, yeah. You [00:57:00] said above green light though and I heard below, so there we go
Chris Burns (That Guy): I thought you were joking. I thought it was a segue to sell pitch your book.
Riley: I'm just gonna leave that crap in 'cause that was genuine, man. That was a, you just got to know a new thing about Riley. Oh, how funny is that?
Chris Burns (That Guy): my, my three daily books to try and get through. There you go. Take a
Riley: love it
Chris Burns (That Guy): for the road. Um, yeah, so the SDU is a completely different webpage to the Rickson Dot Academy, and Rickson Dot Academy is now, like, I'm, I'm posting. Like, there's videos of me teaching on the platform now.
Riley: Mm.
Chris Burns (That Guy): because he's not gonna be filming as much, the, the physical representation... Nope, that's a bad word. I don't know, legally binding. I can never choose the words correctly because America sues everyone. Um, certified instructor. Certified instructor on his platform teaching. So [00:58:00] w- it's, it's a preservation, but it's also an expansion. You know, like all the things that he's taught me, I've organized in a specific way, and I, I present them in a specific way. So rather than here's a move, like here's like seven or eight things that go together, and here's the moves that can come with them, and here's the connection and the base principles allowed to it. We're just trying to keep Rickson's very specific and precious point of view of Gracie Jiu-Jitsu alive. Not just Gracie Jiu-Jitsu, but the, the lens that he sees it through, if that makes sense. I think that's enough English
Riley: It makes sense to me, man. And from a, just from a,
Chris Burns (That Guy): ah.
Riley: from the perspective of the audience goes, like we're talking about Hicks and Gracie, for those of you who don't know, is, is widely considered the greatest practitioner of jujitsu ever to walk this planet. And he's, he's created this like, this, this legacy that like when people...
It's [00:59:00] legend, right? When they feel him, when they, they've grappled with him, they come back going, "He's doing something different than what we're doing." Like you said earlier, he, he's reading jujitsu from a different book, man. And but there's these people in all these... Every sport's got that guy. Every, every business, the business world has those guys who just, they get it
Chris Burns (That Guy): You got your Tony Hawk, you got your Kelly Slater, you got your Santana, you know, like the highest level of practitioner. Like for me, when I started, I just kept getting injured and injured and injured and injured, and I saw Choke, and I was like, "Wow, that guy's the shit. I really admire him." You know, like Yuki Nakai, I'm not gonna punch him.
He's got a cracked orbital. He goes out there and wins. Like, fucking A, man. That's a good And then on the way, like I'm never gonna be able to learn from him, you know? Like, I would find people that met him, and like I was in the periphery of Rickson for a week. Like, "Here's what I learned." Like, I would get little bits and pieces, and then eventually I got closer and closer.
Like, "Yeah, I [01:00:00] talked to Rickson last week," you know? Like, "Maybe I'll name drop you." And I'm like, "Yeah, dude, I wanna do it privately." And to the point where I'm sleeping in a fucking van outside of the Palisades. Like, "Yeah, dude, I'm here." "Maybe next time." "Okay." And I drive away. Like, it's the jiu-jitsu that I always wanted that nobody was providing.
It was literally, it's the product that no one was providing, and I had to find a way to bring the mountain to Muhammad. That was all that was happening. This isn't like, um, I gotta live off of this fucking guy's name and be a barnacle. Like, I don't want that. I was happy living in a closet. Like, genuinely, I've got my shit together.
I'm good. Now I've got something bigger than me that I have to like, uh, I don't know what a good term for it is, but like there's a group of us that are trying to do something more important than ourselves via this guy who put a lot of effort into something. The same as Helio and Carlos and George, and all [01:01:00] them put a lot of effort into something. They're accumulating the best answers, you know? And then they're refining how to teach the best answers, as opposed to, I don't know, let me see if I can pick this guy up that's half... like triple my size and break my back doing it. I'm not sure that's helping anybody, I just, I just want this to be readily available for the, the weaker deserve it, honestly.
'Cause it's a privilege to be a competitor. Like, not everybody has that genetic speciality, you know? Like, some of us were meant for pushing pencils. No, man, this is, this is powerful stuff, honestly. If somebody weak like me can use this against somebody much stronger than me, it's real. I know it's real, and it's not real within the... Well, it can be. The, the principles behind Rickson's jiu-jitsu are easily transferable to the sport of jiu-jitsu, and that's what makes them so precious and priceless. I keep saying precious. It's not the word that you equate with Rickson a lot, [01:02:00] like precious.
Riley: Precious
Chris Burns (That Guy): I'm sorry, I've been watching, uh, American Horror Story: Coven, and that big Black girl, her name's Precious.
I can't get it out of my head Sorry, I never even watched Precious Um, wow. God, I'm terrible at this. Yeah, so the, the idea of and Gracie United is the preservation of all of his hard work. That's it. Not, not the, um, pedestal upon what we rest our laurels on. Like, we're those guys like, "No, we got a lot of work to do." You know, we gotta spread the word, and I want more people to know and acknowledge that there's a, there's another path. There's a completely different version of jujitsu that a lot of people aren't paying attention to because it doesn't get them medals. You know? Like, we have challenge coins though. I make challenge coins.
Riley: Oh, challenge coin's awesome, man
Chris Burns (That Guy): Ha. Americans fucking love challenge coins. I brought... They, they... [01:03:00] Like, I'm in Australia, and I pulled out the challenge coin, like, "This is what we're grading for." And they're like, "Ooh, shiny." Like, they don't do challenge coins over here. Like, I got army that comes over and trains with me, and they give me the handshake.
I'm like, "Ooh, coin." Like, a little collection of coins and shit. It's like the, it's a big kid's version of a fucking belt. I love it
Riley: It's funny 'cause I, yeah, you say Americans love it. Like, a challenge coin to me is it's,
Chris Burns (That Guy): do
Riley: it's just a, it's a medal not tied to a string, right? And so, but I love them so much more. Yeah, that, that's rad, man
Chris Burns (That Guy): It's like, I, I feel like a '90s kid playing with Pogs. Got a slammer. No, like I-- 'Cause like I've got people that give me coins all the time. I got tons of coins, and it's, it's a nice little achievement because with the self-defense, I'm not-- We don't award belts, you know? And me, Michael Casey had a great idea, and he has like badges.
Like you, you go through your first curriculum, you get a, a patch for your gi. So it's kind of like the Boy Scouts. And I love that idea, but I'm also like, [01:04:00] I don't do the NASCAR thing, so I couldn't figure out how I can gamify the idea. Because whether you like it or not, the idea of gamification is real for humans.
We love to have like a reward system. like, if I do this, this, and this, and I keep go, focusing on my goal, I can have th- uh, this, this thing, and then this, this, and... You build upon that. You know, not everyone is a stoic fucking warrior. Some of us need like a shiny carrot at the end of the string. So for the, uh, the SDU, I've sectioned them all off into classes, and each class, let's say the, the first syllabus is like 15 lessons, and those 15 lessons are base deflection, escape, and evasion. It has nothing to do with barramulos. Absolutely nothing. Like do I learn how to get out of a kimura? No. I'm gonna teach you how to not go to the ground. gonna teach you how to strike. Wait, isn't that illegal? Yeah. teach you everything that's illegal first. I want you to cheat better. And then they take that test every three months. It's an optional test, and then they get a [01:05:00] challenge coin. It's just a fucking cool, fun way of wanting to do the self-defense instead of like, "Ugh, if I wanna get my black belt, I have to perform the self-defense dance moves." I don't like that at all. I fucking hate that. Like there's students out there that like they deplore-- They, they, they don't like the idea of having to perform those dance moves. It's like a chore. want it to be a chore. I want this to be the foundation of everything that you work with. I want it to be the coolest part. Like I've got students that are like black belts from other academies coming over here to get out of headlocks. Like, "Dude, I wanna learn this. This is what I wanted when I
Riley: Yes
Chris Burns (That Guy): Yeah." Yeah, so I don't know. I like it. Tara if you like, not you, just in general, fucking
Riley: you talk about the dance moves, right? 'Cause one of the things that attracted me to jujitsu is the fact that you couldn't, you couldn't... It told the truth, right? You, you get in there and just get your butt handed to you by another guy who can do whatever he wants with you because he's trained and you're not.
And then it [01:06:00] was like that, that attraction to learn that. With, uh, with these dance moves you talk about, when I was first going through that book, you know, going through our black belt test in the Pedro Sauer Association is that self-defense part of that book, right? And there were some of those moves... Say that again
Chris Burns (That Guy): I love Pedro
Riley: Oh, Pedro's a great man.
He's a great man, but
Chris Burns (That Guy): shit. He's like one of the, he's one of the coolest fucking guys I know
Riley: He, uh, so he came in, right? And, and we're going through these and, and, you know, from that book, man, you read through a book, y- you're only getting a tenth of what is actually happening in that, that movement. And there was a couple of them that I was like, "Man, these are dance moves. This is, this is ridiculous, uh, th- 'cause this feels like I'm doing nothing, and the only reason it's working is 'cause you're standing here letting me do it."
Until Pedro came in, and then when Pedro was able to let us feel what doing it correctly felt like, I'm like, "Oh, crap, man. Okay." I knew that had to be there, [01:07:00] but I couldn't figure it out myself. And when I felt him do it, I'm like, "Oh, this is different." Yeah, it's
Chris Burns (That Guy): And you got a good one, that one. Like, um, that's literally my job. I'm a proctor, so, uh, it's kind of like a step down from a proctologist. My job is to physically teach and physically test how to do these things under duress, with stress. We add layers of stress as we go, and the invisible aspect has to be known.
If you don't understand the invisible aspect that creates this move, you have to use strength and speed, and then you have to have a compliant-- or, uh, Gracie University would call it a good bad guy. You have to have an, uh, uke and a tori, somebody that feeds the thing so that it works. What about when it doesn't work? You st- Like, you gotta strength your way? No, that's my job. is to show you why this works. And when I first started doing this, I remember, um-- I love bringing this story up. 'Cause I, I came up with, like, some Like, they're fucking [01:08:00] tough. They're black belts, and they're beating the shit out of people, you know, under context on a padded
Riley: Mm-hmm
Chris Burns (That Guy): But I remember showing, like, the standing arm lock, one of them wrote on there, like, one would ever in the world let you do this. This is the stupidest thing in the world. How would you possibly... This is not real," blah, blah, blah, blah. And then to this day, like 20 years later, I still get ding-dongs, like, writing on the internet, like, "It would never work under the highest level of competition." Because you're-- And I'm not-- It's not my fault you don't. It's not my fault that you refuse to learn things and have an open mind. think it's well worth your time to go to an Aikido academy and tell me that it doesn't work when they twist the pinky in a direction. Like, contextually, everything fucking works. Now you need to understand context, and then you need to use your big boy brain, and you have to, like, logically progress through things. The reason this works is because this, this, this, this, and this. I get [01:09:00] it now. I used to think it was stupid." Man, that was Will. Like, to this day, the guy that films with me, the young man,
Riley: Mm-hmm
Chris Burns (That Guy): was K guard when I met him two years ago, like more than two years. He is smart, and he's athletic, and he's very good at the game of jujitsu. Like, he's well-known in the community for being a badass to fucking deal with. Not as the guy on the internet going, "I didn't know that." everyone's like, "How did you not know?" First off, everyone on the internet, stop it.
I like how they comment, like, "Well, that's the first thing I ever learned." Like, shut the fuck up, bitch. You did not.
Riley: Oh, yes
Chris Burns (That Guy): uh, w-with Will going like- Shit, he's right. It was more of a, he's right," than it was, "Oh my God, I've been looking for this my whole life." with Will, like I don't do K-Guard anymore, my back hurts. He means that. He actually means it. Like you can, but should you? Are you gonna get a million dollars for that medal or are you gonna get a medal? Like, it depends on the cont- context. And you can't [01:10:00] shit on me for K-Guard 'cause none of you own it. Didn't have your name attached to it, so don't take it personal. Um, with him, I remember him saying, uh, "You're always right when you don't know what wrong is." And that
Riley: Right
Chris Burns (That Guy): with me. Like, 'cause he's fucking way smarter than people think. Just 'cause he's got a good sense of humor doesn't mean he's not smart. You're always right until you know what wrong is, you know?
And that, that really hit hard, that not a lot of people know what wrong is, 'cause they, they don't know. They never gone out of their way to know what wrong is. They go out of their way to prove what their version of right is as hard as they can. So, um, other immortal words, I was complaining about this to my friend Chris Haueter.
Chris Haueter is a... 'Cause I know this isn't a jujitsu podcast, Chris Haueter is one of the very first ever American black belts. Like, he's been around the block a long time. He's a very old and good friend of mine. I was whining in the car with him, 'cause I, like, I was [01:11:00] stuck in that desert and like this fucking idiot that brought me out there, and he doesn't have any respect for what we're trying to achieve. He just wants the merit badge of what we're trying to achieve. And I'm like fucking furious. And he's like, "Don't worry about it. Your only job is to feed the hungry and not the bloated." And that forever like stuck in my head, like my job is just to feed the hungry. You know, like I, I make stupid comments on the internet and I'm funny and shit. Funny. But my job is to spread this, 'cause I know that there's people out there listening that were looking for this, you know? I don't want to try and convince anybody that it works. go make fun of it. You can go sit at the cool kids' table and make fun of the self-defense jujitsu guys, 'cause you never felt it, you never tried, and you just shit on the dance move that your coach
Riley: Yeah
Chris Burns (That Guy): to do or something that no one really taught you. I went out of my way to make sure that I was taught correctly, 1000% correctly, and that I understand how [01:12:00] to share this and how to e- explain it clearly so that everybody else can benefit from it. want everyone else take this project and move it forward. Like, I don't need this. I, I want you to take it.
The person that hasn't broken their spine and has two bad knees and a bad elbow from the sport of jujitsu, you go out there and prove that it's right. I'm gonna go over here and have a cocktail by the beach
Riley: Chris, what, when you're learning something like this, like one of these, these
Chris Burns (That Guy): Okay
Riley: The mechanics that really make something work. When is it that you know that you've got it? What's, what's the indicator there that you're going, "Oh." Or are you just perpetually open to, to improvement?
Chris Burns (That Guy): I like the second one. I'm perpetually open to improvement, which is what we all are. So the, the team, for lack of a better word, us that are together with Rickson trying to refine these things and teach [01:13:00] these things, we'll, we will hit a wall or we'll come in with a new version and we'll test that version.
Like Scott came out with, uh, a problem that was happening teaching his students a very specific movement, and he changed the move. He, he added one thing to the move that now you can't stop that move from happening. And everyone in the room, including Rickson, was like, "That's how we teach it now." Like, this is not a, a rote list of shit. I'm gonna try and explain this super clear so that everyone can understand. If you have this, that book that's behind you and you've got these moves, it's not about Trying to find the right words. Okay. But that would never happen in a real-world fight. Headlocks always happen. Headlocks always happen. But at the highest level of competition... Koshi guruma, shut up. guruma is a headlock, shut your mouth. You're not smart, I know more than you. Sure, not you. The idea is that [01:14:00] book back there is a, an accumulation of the most common questions and the most common answers to those questions. Now, if I show you escape under this certain scenario and this certain duress, and you find a better way of getting out that involves less steps and less effort, and I can teach that to a girl half my size, what I teach from now on. Does that make sense?
Riley: Yes
Chris Burns (That Guy): Our job is not to just... Yeah, our job is not, "That's the move that we saw in the book, I'm gonna teach this exact move for the rest of my life." No. Headlocks will forever exist. No one gets to tell you they don't exist. Here's the most efficient way to get out of a headlock. Here's the most efficient way to use the headlock to throw someone so that you can maintain a dominant position and control them. Here's the most efficient way to slip and evade from a headlock, because maybe you're half their size, maybe you need to get away. [01:15:00] Maybe you're their size, and maybe you're a police officer and you need to cuff them. Either way, here's the most efficient answer, and the question was headlock. Not one chapter in there has anything, uh, about, um, inverted knee bar. Nope. a contextual question, and I can show you the most efficient answer for that submission if you like, because it's a hobby. the, the foundational stuff that I wanna preserve is the same as... I wish I had the shelf back here of all my books. So, like the Valencis, I've got like hundreds of fucking, uh, vintage martial arts books where everyone in there is teaching the standing arm lock. Everyone should know how to do waki gatame. no version of you that shouldn't know how to do that. That should be like a basic move. if, if they were teaching it in 1776, I think we should probably be teaching it today, 'cause it's gone all the way through these years as like a thing that we all need to know.
Riley: Mm-hmm.
Chris Burns (That Guy): I don't know. So yeah, my, my [01:16:00] passion lies in that, making sure that those things... You understand that I'm not like, "Here's 20 things you have to do, otherwise you're never gonna get your belt." 20 things you should fucking know, because they equal 30 stupid things in the sport." Like when I say things like, uh, uh, you have to know how to get out of a headlock, okay, if you don't know that in koshi guruma... So this is, I know you've probably got like business people going, "Shut up." Koshi guruma,
Riley: words for that. They'll, they'll know what you're talking about
Chris Burns (That Guy): Headlock Koshi, koshi guruma is like, um, if, if you had a baseball bat choke, and I put my arm through, and I hug your head and your arm, and I throw you over my hip. If I hug your lat, you can get out. If I hug your head, don't get out.
It's, it's different. You can... Yes, you can. You can, you can do anything. Like, everyone's the biggest fucking... They're all John Wick. Everyone's John Wick on the internet. Like, it, I would've done this, this." I know what you would've done. You're amazing. [01:17:00] When you do a headlock, that's the same as doing a koshi guruma.
Like, there's specific things that you should learn, and they are gonna be the foundation of everything that you do from here on in the hobby of jujitsu. And that's why, like, Rickson has that quote of, "If you don't know self-defense, you don't know jujitsu." And I put that on every shirt, and I wear that with pride and two big middle fingers in a city filled with sport academies.
Like, I honestly believe that, because I did sport for so fucking long, and no one gave me any foundational direction, that I, I wanna make sure that that foundational direction stays alive. Not just a book on the shelf, It has to stay alive
Riley: I love it. Chris, you, you mentioned earlier, uh, you, you broke your spine at some point in your journey, and I'm not sure w- I, I know I've heard you talk about it on other stuff, but it, was it a jujitsu thing or was it an, an accident from something else?
Chris Burns (That Guy): No, jujitsu. I had a ton of accidents from other things. I, I've been in like three motorcycle [01:18:00] accidents that were brutal. Uh, I've been hit by multiple cars. I got cockroached. the spinal cord
Riley: this. You got hit by multiple cars?
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Chris Burns (That Guy): Yeah. So, uh, a bit, I got hit by two cars while on motorcycles, so those count as motorcycle accidents. I got run over on the lawn of my parents' house, up onto the hood of the car by an angry ex-girlfriend of a friend, not even me.
Riley: Hmm
Chris Burns (That Guy): I got hit in the rain one time 'cause they just didn't see me, and I got hit on a bicycle. So multiple. There's the bicycle, there's the rain, there was the hood of the car. That other one doesn't count. Anyways, I got... I'll write a list one [01:20:00] day of all my injuries. But the, the spinal cord one was, um, tornado guard. And God forbid anyone think I'm shitting on the guy who created tornado guard, 'cause he's a fucking monster. He'll kill me. um, the tornado guard is when you're in half guard and you spin upside down. You spin upside down and you're like a catapult and you move the person. Turns out shit doesn't work like that. have to be super strong. You have to have like a, a lot of muscle behind what you're doing. one told me shit. So I was upside down and one of the students I was with just fucking fell on me.
Like he didn't mean it. He didn't do it maliciously. We're all retarded 'cause no one ever teaches us anything. So poof, and I felt a pop. I felt a seeping feeling, if anybody's ever, uh, hemorrhaged a disc. I don't know the word for it. So I slipped I think three discs and cracked a vertebrae. And the annulus tore on one of them.
I had sciatica for fucking years. It was [01:21:00] awful. And the, the crack in the vertebrae, they were like, "Well, you're fine. You're not paralyzed." You know, they did a scan. It's like, "There's a minor crack. It's fine." I was like, "There's a crack in my spine. That's not fine." It's like, "No, you're fine. You can just walk."
And I was like, "Whatever. Man, fuck it." So I went about my business and I was like, there's a couple slipped discs and impingement of nerves, and I couldn't stand up straight, and my leg seized up and was like bent for three years. I couldn't straighten my leg. So, and I had no way of fixing it because I didn't want to f- uh, fuse the vertebras.
Riley: Mm-hmm.
Chris Burns (That Guy): ended up seeing Andrew Lock. Andrew Lock helped me out with, um, the strength and conditioning, and Rickson put me onto, uh, the McKenzie method of diagnosis. So the fluid back into the spine and then strengthening the, the muscles around it is how I fixed it instead of, um, surgery. But I did take a ton of drugs 'cause they're fun
Riley: Well, talk about this, this part of
Chris Burns (That Guy): Drugs?[01:22:00]
Riley: Yeah. Not the drugs part
Chris Burns (That Guy): drugs. I'm actually genuinely a, a, a sober and good instructor. I enjoy a couple cocktails, but that oxycodone, oh, fuck me. It's a slippery slope, dude.
Riley: Oh, man
Chris Burns (That Guy): the first thing they did. They, they just handed me drugs and was like, "Go have fun." I was like, "Ooh, I'm gonna watch fucking Legion."
Riley: Yeah, that stuff can get re- that stu- that stuff can, can ruin a dude. But talk about this, um, as you're coming back from, from injury, right? And you're still, you still have this passion for jujitsu as an art But dude, you're broken, right? And then you've, you, you've talked about it many times on different videos you've posted about kind of having to re-learn a better way to do it, and we had mentioned that earlier in the episode.
What... 'Cause business people do this crap all the time, where they'll go and they're just busting 80-hour weeks, and they're blowing their marriages out, and they're, they're ruining their relationship with their kids, and, you know, it's, it's [01:23:00] like, was it worth it, man? Do we... Can we just kind of learn how to do this better so that we don't have to keep getting all these bumps and bruises?
Talk about that journey
Chris Burns (That Guy): I think and all of your fuck-ups lead into who you are. It's a very small percentage of people that are, like, blessed into success on day one. I think the most successful people are the ones that are constantly failing and growing. know? Like, you're gonna up, and every time you fuck up, you learn a little bit more. For me, I was in this perfect spot where I was okay not being at home and constantly training and not caring if I died or got injured. I was in a, an abusive relationship, I was all alone on the other side of the world. Only had these few people in my life. It, it was a dark place for me, and that dark place was really good for fighting. Like, "Fuck it, I'll die. Let's see how far I can push the boundaries." You know, it turns out on- [01:24:00] once you break your back, you're like, "I found a boundary." So after that, I, I had to... Yeah, af- after that one, I had to kinda learn how to actually do jujitsu, which is, uh, it sounds so catty to say, 'cause I remember talking one time at a, a, a cafe with a friend about, "I've been doing this stuff with Gracie University, and I've found, like, this is how you fi- this is how you actually do this."
And I remember one of them was like, "I don't know, man, it's pretty subjective." I was like, "Not really. I don't think it's subjective. I think left is left and right is right, and I think you're just making excuses for not wanting to spend money." So for me, getting injured horribly at the beginning of the journey helped me start to accidentally spar in the way that I was supposed to spar, which was more survival-oriented than domination. Like, I [01:25:00] w- I'm not the dominant one. I'm the sneaky cunt that kills you in the alley. Like, they used to, at, near the end of my tenure at that place, they were calling me The Toad, 'cause it's like a dog is, like, chewing on a fucking frog, and then the dog walks away and dies, and then the toad's fine. that was like, 'cause they watched me get my ass handed to me for, like, six minutes straight, and then the other guy would tap. Like, "The fuck happened there?" Like, mm. So
Riley: A toad. I love it. That's great
Chris Burns (That Guy): That is an awful f- I'm so glad they called me Bones. Fuck that, man. They, um... I ended up having to preserve myself, having to defend myself, having to do actual jujitsu by default, and I wasn't learning how to do it. I had to make it up my own. So honestly, like, there's no guard. I don't have a guard. I... Like, my sciatica's killing me. I can't guard. You can't kill me though, bitch. Like, I'll find every goddamn exit, and like, I would lay there underneath side [01:26:00] control until like I, I would get out. I would tap them from underneath side control. I'd have to come up with all these weird fucking submissions. I remember, uh, choking people from underneath. I remember arm locking people from underneath, like, uh, the paintbrush Americana. All kinds of little tricks because I didn't know how to do anything else. I think it was probably the best thing that could have happened to me for what I am today, is having to roll like an injured old man when I was technically in my prime. prime was, like, the lowest level of prime in that room, 'cause I remember they had, like, a gauntlet for, um, the Shark Tank fucking comp class, and I was in that. I was, like, the last one on the gauntlet. It's like, here's the manly guy that's really good, then here's the, the, the teenager that's really good. He's just like fucking full dumbass strength. Here's, uh, Captain Sport, who's super fast, and here's that guy that kills you by accident. You know, here's the weird one. Just go with the weird one next, and then all of a sudden the guy's [01:27:00] asleep on top of you. Like, "Coach, I need another one." Somebody out there got the reference. I fucking... Yeah. Th- there's a lot of people that I came up with, like, um, they, they'll understand what I'm talking about. Like, I wasn't the most dominant, but fucking hard to kill, and when I get you, I get you.
So, and that's not me talking tough, 'cause I'm the furthest from tough. There were tough fucking people in that room, but I think I was lucky enough to be broken for so long that every space that was uncomfortable was basically my house.
Riley: Yeah
Chris Burns (That Guy): really comfortable in every terrible situation 'cause like, "Okay. Oh, he got my back." like, "Uh-oh. Fuck. Don't scare me." all of a sudden they're tapping out from a shin lock. Like, that's illegal. Like, fuck you, dude.
Riley: So there's, there's something about that, you know, understanding the principle behind things so clearly that you know the adjustments to make, man. You know where the [01:28:00] pitfalls are, you know where the, the danger lies, and so you can avoid it. And again, that, that just blends so well into any athletic venture, any business venture.
It just, it fits the audience so well for the, that we do around here on this podcast, right? 'Cause it's like, crap, man, I'd- I've crashed companies before. I've gone through the bankruptcy experience. I've, I've done stupid on steroids, and I, I'm like, now I know a lot of things to avoid, right?
Chris Burns (That Guy): Yeah. That's one of the best things you can-- Like, for me, like, um, doing classes half naked 'cause it's 40 degrees, like, uh, Celsius. It's like it's super hot and, like, you have, uh, a brand new student walks in and we're all half naked and sweaty, and they walk out like, "I am not doing that class." Like, you learn things like how to be presentable for other students, you know, like how to, uh... I think I've, I've fucked up the art of teaching so many times that I learned how to teach properly. I fucked up [01:29:00] fighting so many times that I learned how to fight. like, that's why we say tap, You know, like, uh, in business it's probably not the best thing ever to say tap. There's probably some avoidable pitfalls, but, you know, in, in my line of work, like running the business here, the idea of like keeping the lights on and paying the rent, I'm lucky I have business partners that are really good at that part, and I'm really good at my part. I'm the product, I'm the teacher, I'm the receptical, recept- recepti- receptacle of knowledge. I'm the thing that holds the stupid stuff, then puts it out with dick jokes. they, they run the business and honestly, I, I'm glad they invested in me. So I try and keep
Riley: Well, you're doing a great job, man. Doing a great job. So
Chris Burns (That Guy): Thank you
Riley: where did the nickname Bones come from?
Chris Burns (That Guy): I came from being an artist actually. I grew up in the South, and my last name is [01:30:00] Burns, and when you have a s- heavy, thick Southern accent, I used to get called Mr. Bones by accident, and then it became a joke between me and my friends when I would sign comic books, I'd write Mr. Bones. And then Mr. Bones kind of got dragged over to jujitsu, because you don't pick your fucking nicknames in jujitsu, by the way. I've
Riley: That's right
Chris Burns (That Guy): with their nicknames. Dude, uh, there's a guy that came in with his nickname that he gave himself, like sewn into his gi and shit. Like, I don't call myself Bones. Like, that just keeps getting fucking published by other people. So, uh, if you go to DeviantArt, it's Mr. Bones. If, uh, you buy any of the comic books that I've ever done, it, it has Bones written on it, because it was like a tag. Like, it was just something I grew up with. Like, heavy Southern accent, Burns sounds like Bones. Absolutely nothing cool is attached to it. have broken a lot of bones though, so everyone thinks it's that
Riley: I, I picture a five-year-old who can't say his Rs calling you Mr. Bones.
Chris Burns (That Guy): I picture a very large Black man. "Mr. [01:31:00] Bones. Mr. Bones, I'm gonna have to ask you to come over here." I'm smoking cigarettes in high school.
Riley: Put your hands behind your back. I love it
Chris Burns (That Guy): Bones, you're under arrest."
Riley: Oh my gosh, man
Chris Burns (That Guy): it's great. My parents are in town. My parents are telling my wife stories about picking me up with the police and shit. She thought I was kidding. He's
Riley: Turns out it was real
Chris Burns (That Guy): up. Like, "If I have to pick you up from the goddamn police ever again." Fucking super Southern style,
Riley: Oh my gosh, man.
Chris Burns (That Guy): Sorry.
Riley: Well, Chris, can I switch directions here a little bit and do, do some, uh, a little more of a, kind of a, I don't know, a s- series of lighter questions that I like to ask everybody?
Chris Burns (That Guy): I'm not a furry.
Riley: Yeah, okay, you're not afraid. We established that. So this, this,
Chris Burns (That Guy): a f- I'm an alpha furry
Riley: Oh my gosh. You're gonna have to, you're gonna have to draw a picture of that one these days, the alpha furry The Go Earn Your SALT Podcast. So what, what advice would you give people to help them to earn their [01:32:00] SALT?
Chris Burns (That Guy): Oh, that's what that means. I swear, 'cause the microphone's in front of it, I thought it said, "Go eat your salt." I'm not kidding.
Riley: Earn
Chris Burns (That Guy): go earn your salt. So, um I've got a thing with my kid. Like, he has to do push-ups and squats to earn something. Like, I think you honestly have to earn your way. I don't-- I'm not fond of people that just steal oxygen. Like, I get it. I'm a lot nicer these days, but I think you should earn your meal. That's how I feel. But also, I'm an asshole to myself. I think a good way of earning your salt is by going out and trying a new thing at least like once a week. Not every day. Every day is like, that's a lot. But like once a week, once a month, pick something you've never done before and say, "Fuck it, let's go," and give it a go. And just go fail at it, you know? Failing a couple times can lead into you being, like obsessed. Like surfing, like I [01:33:00] suck at it. I still love doing it. Doesn't mean I'm good at it, you know? And one day I'll be good at it because I keep fucking doing it. think that's the cool part about life is that it's infinite and you can do literally anything with this thing. Like, it might be a simulation and maybe I programmed it on easy mode or something. Who knows? Maybe I'm an alien, like in Rick and Morty, and I'm playing a video game. I'll wake up one day from working at the carpet store. But I'm having a blast, you know, burning the Social Security number and trying to survive in the woods. You know, like I wanna test my boundaries and I wanna see how far I can take something and see how interested I am in it. That's... I, I love my wife. My wife, she picks like a new thing every fucking week. Like, she made a rug the other day. just re- she made, uh, uh, magnets. She just makes
Riley: Nice
Chris Burns (That Guy): Like, she's creative.
She likes doing new and interesting things and then going like, "Yeah, that [01:34:00] one's not for me. I gave it a go. On to the next thing." You know? So I think being willing go out there and push your boundaries in any way, shape, or form, it could be like, "I'm gonna try this diet for a week." You know, "I'm gonna try these exercises for one month and see how it goes." pick something that's hard to do. You could start with something easy, but I would go with something hard to do and just fuck it up ruthlessly say, "Oh, boohoo, I'm a failure." Like, that's good. That's gonna change you as a person. really do believe that over years of fucking up, I think it changes you as a person.
It makes you more confident, and you can stand up and say like, "Okay, I'm ready to fuck something else up. Let's go."
Riley: Chris, have you ever tried something, have you ever tried something that you just never got it? Never even came close, it just...
Chris Burns (That Guy): Cannot, I gr- I fucking lived with professional skateboarders. I was in an apartment and, like, every one of them was a [01:35:00] professional skateboarder. And they're like, "Chris, get on the board." Toong. "Chris, get on the board." Toong. "Chris, get on the board."
Riley: Yeah
Chris Burns (That Guy): Toong. I don't see the appeal. hurts every time I fall.
They're like, "Yeah, but it's fucking cool when you get the trick." I'm like, "What trick? It's a s-" I'm not a fan. got a lot of friends that are skateboarders. I'm cool, man. Yeah, so if there's one thing I don't like, I'm gonna go with skateboarding. Fuck you
Riley: Outside of jujitsu, what is your favorite pastime?
Chris Burns (That Guy): Uh, I'm not gonna be crude.
You-- I think we all know what my favorite pastime is. Um
Riley: Can't pick, pick jiu-jitsu though. What do, out- outside of that
Chris Burns (That Guy): It was outside, but you can see it. hanging out with my son. I think that is by far the coolest possible thing. Like, the older he gets, the more fun it is too, 'cause it gets weirder. Like, the two of us are arguing in the car park about the difference between a, [01:36:00] a, a Transformer and a mech, and I'm like yelling at my kid, and he's yelling at me like, "No, you can get inside of a Transformer.
If a Transformer changes, it'll kill you. Get inside a mech. You don't get in a Trans..." It's the most fun ever. I have such a blast just hanging out with my son, being weird and, like, burying treasure in the backyard and pretending we're pirates and just fucking cool. I really like it. Yeah. My wife's cool too, but I don't know.
My son is like, I've never had anyone related to me by blood in my entire life until my son, and now I just see this little version of me being an asshole, and I'm like, "Damn it. That's cool, man." I've never felt this connected to anything in my life. So
Riley: That's awesome, man. What,
Chris Burns (That Guy): And I
Riley: what's something...
Chris Burns (That Guy): I'm building an
Riley: Oh, you do?
Chris Burns (That Guy): Yeah, I got a daughter on the way,
Riley: Oh, congrats, man. That's cool. Yeah. Chris, what's something quirky about you that people [01:37:00] don't know?
Chris Burns (That Guy): Is there anything that I haven't-- like the entire thing is quirky. Like, I don't know. Um, what is something quirky? I'm pretty unbelievably open. I, um, I made sure that I documented my entire life on Facebook in case something like this ever happened one day. And if anybody has anything to say, they can scroll 20 years back into Facebook. you, dude. Like, "Well,
Riley: That's awesome
Chris Burns (That Guy): footage of you." Like, "'Cause you haven't scrolled far enough, jackass.
Riley: Keep scrolling, bro
Chris Burns (That Guy): of me when you were... keep scrolling, bitch." Like...
Riley: Hmm.
Chris Burns (That Guy): Um, a, a unique thing that nobody knows about me. Um, honestly, I'm pretty open, dude. I don't think there's anything I hide very well. I am an artist that-- I, I'm the guy that drew the Thinker Monkey. A lot of people don't know that. They think it's Mirkatsu, and it's like a running joke between me and Mirkatsu. [01:38:00] I'm an artist that's not an actual artist. I'm just really disciplined, and I can make art, but I'm not creative. There you go. I, I can't be creative to save my life. You have to give me directions and tell me what to do with this discipline. That's, that's weird, I think. It's unique.
Riley: Yeah, that's interesting
Chris Burns (That Guy): it because they... Yeah, they-- Most people that love doing art, they love doing art because they're creative. I don't know why I became an artist when I was so young. Like, I love artwork, and I would copy other people's artwork, and I'd learn how to make their artwork, and I got really hardcore into being an artist. Like, I'm genuinely good. I could stop doing jujitsu at any time and make an eas-easy living. It's not what I'm passionate about, though. So when I put my discipline to paper, like, um...
What was it? Some- somebody asked to use my artwork for another podcast, and then when they posted the artwork, someone was like, "AI slop." Like, [01:39:00] I drew that 15 years ago before AI You know, like p- people are-- Like any, any way to shit on me, they'll try. But, um, like I, I genuinely admire artists that are creative and passionate about what they do, uh, like mostly like Basquiat and, uh, I like that version of art.
I'm not that. I'm not creative. So the unique thing about me is that I can be disciplined in literally anything, mostly out of spite. I don't know. I'm not a, um, I'm not a conduit of any kind to anything like that. I'm looking at beautiful art right now, and I cannot see myself being creative like that. But I'll draw the fuck out of a dog in a gi.
Riley: That's a perfect answer, man. Chris, what is your f- what's your favorite naughty food?
Chris Burns (That Guy): Whiskey. I don't know, like, a- against the Gracie diet, like, um, [01:40:00] naughty food. Jesus. I like tiramisu. I love
Riley: Oh, heck yeah
Chris Burns (That Guy): red velvet cream cheese. Red velvet with cream cheese. That's, that's good naughty food. Heroin. I love heroin. It's fucking awesome. It's fun.
Riley: Scariest moment of your life
Chris Burns (That Guy): to this shit Hmm. Watching someone I love die in a bed
Riley: In a what?
Chris Burns (That Guy): I can get a bed just watching them fade away to nothing and die for a long time. There's a fucking mosquito, sorry. Just like, uh, being around death as it creeps, not as it just bangs. I think that, uh, that living fear, that constant everything ends, but just letting it end and letting it fade away and like watching fruit mold. [01:41:00] You know, like a time lapse of watching a banana turn brown. uh, it's a long fear, but I don't know. Big bang death doesn't scare me as much as like watching decay
Riley: In your life, what's the most valuable le-
Chris Burns (That Guy): you,
Riley: yeah, I did, man. Deep answer. I love it. That's, uh... You've thought about that.
Chris Burns (That Guy): That is as a kiddie pool
Riley: What's, uh, what's your most valuable learning experience? Something that you kinda just hang on to
Chris Burns (That Guy): Good. Did a lot of those I remember, uh, my most valuable learning experience being from Otis. Uh, I used to a lot of drugs and party as a kid, and he pulled me downstairs into the car park and sat down to smoke pot in the [01:42:00] car, and he literally did a big brother and pulled me aside and said, "Hey, man, not everybody likes you 'cause you're selfish.
You should quit being selfish, and you should try and help out with other people more often." He's just like, I'm a kid. I think I'm like 15. And he's like, "Wait, like you could, you could be a bit nicer to other people instead of thinking about yourself." And I was like, "Hey, fuck... Damn it." Like, honestly, like somebody just straight up telling me how I'm being a dick.
Like, "We all really like you, but you know, you could be a cunt in this way. Maybe it's something you could work on." I've valued, um, opinions like that for so long. Like I have a friend Jack, and Jack is open and honest with me about literally everything, and he'll shit on himself. He's like, "Yeah, this is wrong with me.
This, this, this, and this. And I'm mad at you about this, but it, it means I'm mad at myself." And I'm sitting there like, "Did I just do therapy with you? What just happened there?" So I, I am fond of honesty above all things. [01:43:00] I like when you don't beat around the bush and you just trim the fat off completely. So I think one of the best lessons I ever had was someone pulling me aside and saying how I could be better within the community that I'm in. So I value that.
Riley: That is good, man. Chris, what's something on your, uh, your bucket list? Something you wanna do before it's all over
Chris Burns (That Guy): I don't know, dude. I've done a lot of shit. done some weird shit. I don't think there's much of a bucket list left. Um Hmm. Well now I'm gonna have to think about this. I'd like to become a good kids instructor. wanna teach, uh, my daughter and my son how to do jujitsu the way that Vinny was taught. That's my to-do list right now, 'cause my bucket list is a, a daily basis thing. My bucket l- list isn't like, "Maybe I'll do it after I retire."
Like, my [01:44:00] bucket list is like, "I'm getting dumplings tonight." Like, I, I, I'm a, like I have g- I'm a goal-oriented motherfucker. So wanna know how to teach my kids jujitsu, not how to be tough doing jujitsu, but how to build up their confidence and I want dumplings now. Well, that's my bucket list is I'm having dumplings tonight. I think, um Fuck, dog. traveled a lot. I've seen a lot of weird shit. I want to finally get good at Kali. Like, I've been doing it for 20 fucking years, and I'm still retarded. God. Like, I'm field proficient in a lot of violence, but I want to actually be able to go like, "No, I know what I'm doing." Like with jujitsu, I can literally go like, "No, I know what I'm doing.
I'm good. I'm fine."
Riley: Yeah
Chris Burns (That Guy): is like this ruthlessly impossible art to follow because [01:45:00] every-- It's, it's as bad politically w- as jujitsu, where everyone is hiding techniques and hiding... Like, "No, you have to climb the mountain and bring a suckling pig to learn." Like, "Oh, okay. That's cool." And then when I go up there, they don't teach anything so much as demonstrate a thing really fast and then walk away.
Like, "Damn it. I almost learned something, but I have a pig now." So it's one of the harder martial arts because it's very flowery and very wide open shit, and people think that that's what it is, but it's not. It's the same as people seeing jujitsu on Instagram, and they think that's what it is, but it's not. I don't know. I want on my bucket list to literally just like carve out time to go, "I do nothing but this now." I'm paying close attention. I'm not gonna get distracted. I'm gonna get hit in the head a lot. I'm gonna get stabbed a lot more because, like, the sparring sessions that I have... 'Cause you only get good by doing, by the way.
You don't get good by, like, standing on a surfboard on the shore. I gotta go get [01:46:00] stabbed more. I gotta get hit more. So that's on my bucket list is, is weapons. More and more weapons. I'm fine with firearms. okay. I'm very field pr- proficient. Sticks and knives though, man, it's a gap
Riley: Yeah. Favorite book of all time
Chris Burns (That Guy): I Am Legend, Richard Matheson. I think I've, I've got a fond love of that one 'cause I read it when I was very young. A Clockwork Orange as well. Um, I think A Clockwork Orange by Anthony Burgess, and The Wanting Seed was good, but Clockwork Orange is Fuck, dude, it's A Clockwork Orange. And I Am Legend are in the top of my favorite pile, but Social Blunders by Tim Sandlin is always gonna hold a fond place in my heart. I've never commiserated with a character more than I have with Sam Callahan. [01:47:00] Two of those have been made into movies. Oh, and I love Fight Club. Anything Chuck makes, I love Chuck's work. Monsters and Choke. He's just like the first-- The next three books were, like, a different version of Fight Club. He was finding his voice. I love everything Chuck touches. his Substack, all of it.
Yeah
Riley: You know, it's, it's funny 'cause I'm, I had no idea until I heard you say it that, uh, Fight Club was even a book. I,
Chris Burns (That Guy): It's honestly
Riley: on my list now
Chris Burns (That Guy): books. I used to, um, I used to give it out as a present to people. I actually did this on a podcast one time. Um, a friend of mine put me onto Beloved. I forgot the author's name, but that's a heartbreaking book, and I put him onto Fight Club, and he was like, "That was hilarious."
I'm like, "Thanks. I enjoyed crying all winter, cunt." So have you read Beloved? Holy shit
Riley: Not
Chris Burns (That Guy): Just go look up the wiki on it, read the tilde and just don't do it. It just [01:48:00] hurts. The,
Riley: Hmm.
Chris Burns (That Guy): Chuck Palahniuk is a, uh, he's a prolific author, but one of his first, I think his first book was, is Fight Club, and then there's Choke and Invisible Monsters. But Fight Club is by far one of my favorite books. It's very funny. It's very dark, and it, it hits the perfect nerve for me. Like, I like my humor a little bit darker than normal, and when you've got them running around the kitchen slipping in her mother's fat, it's fucking hilarious to me.
Riley: Well, I, I'm gonna stick it on my list for sure. Chris, what's next for you? Where are you going from here?
Chris Burns (That Guy): Uh, Captain Ron. If anybody gets that reference, that's where I'm heading. So, did you get Captain Ron, Colin?
Riley: I did not get the reference though
Chris Burns (That Guy): Fuck. I, somebody asked me that the other day, and I said, like, "I don't know, man, I'm gonna end up like Captain Ron." And they got the reference. They're like, "Holy shit, that's awesome." So I'm planning on being a pirate. Um, have [01:49:00] to learn how to sail properly, and that's a long haul, man. I've done some sailing classes.
Way harder than it looks. So, um, learning how to sail properly and then just drifting off into the sunset drinking cocktails. Um, in all honesty, the next big thing for me is being a proctor for Hicks and Gracie. So as unfortunate as this nightmare is for some people, I will be the guy that you have to get through for certification for some people. Sorry. Um, I take that job very seriously. I-- It looks like I don't take anything seriously, but I take a few things in my life unbelievably seriously, and one of them is, uh, being a proctor for Hicks and Gracie. So spreading that art and wandering the earth and testing and having videos sent to me and looking over their videos and then having them do Zoom sessions with me. Anything that I can do to help preserve and refine this art is the next step. of that, building this academy, [01:50:00] 'cause I've been super lazy with this academy. All the other academies are doing great. I'm gonna start advertising for the Sydney Academy and holding classes.
Riley: Where can you be found?
Chris Burns (That Guy): Ah. BJJ Project, Rickson.academy, honestly, I think that's the main two places to find me. So we're building an affiliation page right now, 'cause I get messages every day, honestly, about, "How, how do I learn this version of jujitsu?"
Because there's no academy teaching this. So I've created multiple curriculums and the ability to affiliate with Zero Point, as a brand, because I'm only gonna hold 20 spots, and you have to test, and you have to physically see me every year. at least once a year, you either come to me, or you bring me to you, or one of my proctors to make sure that you're living up to standard, 'cause I don't want this to be watered down at all. So I'm gonna have very few spots available. We'll make that announcement in the next few [01:51:00] months, 'cause I gotta go and do some seminars in Europe. But I think the, the big step for me next is that, uh, the affiliation program and being able to preserve and share this art
Riley: Tell us your academy name. You, you glossed over that
Chris Burns (That Guy): Point Gracie Jiu-Jitsu. Zero Point, Zero Point Gracie Jiu-Jitsu, and there's multiple Zero Points across the globe. You can find them if you're looking hard enough.
Riley: And your academy is in Sydney?
Chris Burns (That Guy): My personal one is in the northern beaches of Sydney, Australia, and I also have, uh, a personal one that's run by Greg, and I, I think that's more his than mine, over in Melbourne. that's in St. Kilda in Melbourne. And then, uh, there's a bunch of Points around. There's, um, France and Ghent and Indonesia and shit. You'll
Riley: It's amazing, man. Well, you're doing good stuff, dude. I, I sure appreciate you coming on here and chatting with me. It's been a good time
Chris Burns (That Guy): I know. I had a blast. Thank you very much for your time. I'm sorry I'm not [01:52:00] a business guy.
Riley: I, you're more than you think you are, man. You're, you're more of a businessman than you, than you're giving... Oh, it's such a great thing, dude, 'cause you're, like you said, you're striking a chord with exactly what the audience of this podcast can appreciate. And we're all, we're all going through this life and we're winging it.
We're doing the best we can and, and, uh, there you go. That's... You, you, you hit the spot when you're doing that stuff, so.
Chris Burns (That Guy): Appreciate it, man. So, uh, next thing you know, uh, I'm most likely gonna be sitting by a river listening to Indian flute music. I will not be doing this for much longer. The internet is so stupid. Oof.
Riley: So
Chris Burns (That Guy): Good
Riley: understand that for sure. So Chris, go earn your salt, my friend
Chris Burns (That Guy): I'll be gone before you know it. I'm gonna go earn my SALT.
Hey, you've just finished up this episode and I wanna know, are you or someone you know a getting after it, go earn your salt type of person? If so, [01:53:00] message me directly on Instagram at the Go Earn Your Salt podcast, and perhaps we can have you on the show. Also, if you like this content, leave us a review, subscribe, and share with your friends, and perhaps this podcast can help you and them go earn your salt