The Go Earn Your SALT Podcast Episode Transcript- Tim Freeman

Tim Freeman- November 22, 2025 (EDIT)
Tim Freeman: [00:00:00] the thing that a mentor does oftentimes is like a mentor generally has more experience than you in the thing you're trying to do.
And they've also kinda walked through some of those paths and have made the mistakes. And a good mentor can get their point across to you in a way that you can understand without having to go make the damn mistake. 'cause that's really the most expensive way to learn. The best way to learn is by observance.
You are listening to the Go Earn Your Salt Podcast, brought to you by Salt Electrolytes. On this podcast, your host, Riley Rogers, explores the stories of people who get after it, get things done, and earn their salt. You will hear from high achievers who discuss what makes them tick, how they got to where they are today, and where they're headed tomorrow.
Perhaps this podcast will help you go your salt.
Riley: Today we have my, my friend Tim Freeman on here. Tim is, Uh, the host of the inside BJJ podcast and of [00:01:00] the bullpen, which is a, um, a ju a juujitsu kinda, um, do you guys do MMA too? Is that part of, part of the bullpen? Kind of 
Tim Freeman: I mean sometimes those, those topics will come up. Pro wrestling, MMA lately we've been talking a lot about Ohtani because the algorithm seems to favor him. Uh, but yeah, in the bullpen it's like a, a weekly grappling show where we mix in lots of other stuff too. Yeah.
Riley: Yeah. So Tim and I got to know each other, um, gosh, through Instagram really was the original. And then, uh, I've gotten to, to, uh, hang out in person a little bit, but, uh, definitely over the phone and over, uh, over the Insta Webs. Um, and so we've gotten to know each other and I've gotten pretty interested in Tim and his story and what he's got going on.
He's a, he's a, a double juujitsu black belt in the Gee and Nogi, which is kind of cool. That's a, you know, not important to everybody on here, but it's, it's important to Tim and I, we get that. And, 
Tim Freeman: Yeah. Hell yeah.
Riley: achievement. And then, uh, but he's, he's also a business owner and an athlete himself.
And [00:02:00] so, uh, Tim juggles a lot of things and has a pretty fascinating story here. So Tim, welcome to the show. 
Tim Freeman: Hey, thanks Ri, it's great to be here and, yeah. You know, we have kept in contact. I, I talk on the phone with you more than. I do with other people, to be honest, I, I, I usually keep everything to text with people. I'm like, just text me. Just text me. Uh, but it's great to be here, man. And uh, yeah. All, all these things you brought up, when I hear them, I always think, I didn't plan any of this.
Like, it wasn't like I had these like, goals written down. I'm like, I'm gonna do this. This is what I'm gonna do. Uh, I just got a motor and I like to pursue things and once I bite down on something, I have a maybe to a fault. I have a hard time letting go. And so I tend to accumulate lots of jobs and, and interests.
Riley: about that, man. I'm gonna, I wanna talk about that, um, as we [00:03:00] get going here. But I want to tell us who you are and where you're from and what, what life was like as a kid. 
Tim Freeman: Yeah. So I, uh, I grew up out in Stockton, California. And Mo most people know Stockton not for anything good. It's like the city that's only known for bad things. You know, there was a. In the eighties, there was a school shooting. Um, in the early two thousands there was the mortgage meltdown epicenter. It was often when Newsweek would come up with a list of like the top 10 cities.
It, Stockton was only in there if it was like for crime, aggravated assault, illiteracy, you know, unhealthy index. It was all stuff like that. That was basically where I got my foundation and my formulation of humanity and society and how to exist and communicate, uh, in a very hostile environment at times.
[00:04:00] Uh, but so I grew up out in Stockton as a kid, I, you know, I was the runt of the pack, so there was a group of us and I was the youngest and the smallest, the last to grow. I was kind of a short little pudgy dude growing up, and often my cousin, big MF who is the, uh, infamous co-host of inside BJJ from time to time when we were growing up, he's a few years older than me and I, I really looked up to him.
I'm like, man, this guy's awesome. And he, you know, he would say when he was 12 or 13, he'd say, I'm gonna be six foot 2, 2 20 when I grow up. And he is like, maybe you'll get to five seven or five eight. This is what they were telling me, right. This is the way it's gonna be. Yeah. As a kid. And I'm like, okay, that's how it's gonna be.
Um. But eventually, you know, I hit a growth spurt and actually am much taller than he stopped at like five seven, which is so great. I laugh about it all the time, thank God too. 'cause he [00:05:00] would've, 
Riley: what I wanna know. 
Tim Freeman: oh, oh he did make two 20 and then some, uh uh. But you know, growing up like that, I just, I was kind of a late bloomer and those kinds of things.
I wasn't particularly athletic or really into a lot. We grew up very like, into church. My dad was a pastor, still is. We were very like built into that and it was like soldiers for Christ, reported for duty kind of church like we were like into church. Um, which was, which was fine. I learned a lot of great things in that.
But, you know, as a young adult kind of getting married and moving out into the world, you know, it was a little bit, uh, of a difficult transition to kind of develop relationships with people that weren't from your particular background. Uh, we were kind of insulated in in that sense. Um, but yeah, I started training juujitsu in 2005.
And [00:06:00] again, through my older cousin, we had grown up loving the UFC and, and pro wrestling and boxing and all this stuff. And, and we, when we had watched the UFC for the first time, somebody gave my cousin the VHS tape of UFC two. And he, he worked at Office Depot at the time, right. And this guy that he worked with, Dave Lowen, who's a great big shout out to Dave.
He's a black belt, dark wolf, MMA, out in Orlando, Florida. He's an awesome dude. He's an OG Stockton guy. He was a martial artist too. Nobody was exactly grappling or doing juujitsu. Exactly. You know, but he knew that my cousin Matt liked fighting and was a rough guy. And so he said, come out into the parking lot, I got something to give you.
And he was very secretive about it. And they got out to the parking lot and Dave produces this like, rumpled up brown bag. And he hands it to my cousin and my cousin like unrolls it and looks in it. And there's a VHS cassette and my cousin's thinking that Dave's giving him some like [00:07:00] pornography video.
He has no idea. He is like, what is, is this like faces of death? What is this? You know, there was no internet then. Yeah. If you had weird stuff, it had to be on tape and you had to do it in secret. Right. So he takes it home, he throws it in, and it's, it's the u, it's UFC two. And it's hoist Gracie and Ken Shamrock and all these characters from, from back in that time.
And my cousin was hooked on it and I liked it, but I did not like the Gracie's. I did not like Jiujitsu. I thought Hoist was tricking people. I thought he had a rope in his sleeves. Somehow I just, I couldn't get past like this Brazilian dude in a karate uniform who is like whooping these dudes that are yoked and just look tough.
It just, it really bothered me. I had a real, I was like, I don't like these Juujitsu guys. Well, they had mentioned the Lion's Den is, uh, at the time it was in Lodi, [00:08:00] California, which is like 11 miles from Stockton, or half of our family lives in Lodi. So my cousin, as soon as he turned 18, he was at the Lions den, signed up training with these guys, and, and we lived together.
This was in 99. We'd lived together. And, uh, when he first started training with those guys, and I remember he would come home, busted up and he'd say like, oh, today I met Jerry Bolander. Today I met Pete Williams. And these were guys that like, we were kind of seeing in the fights. And he's like, dude, Frank Shamrock was there today.
He almost kicked my ass. 'cause I walked on the mat with shoes on. It's like a real true story, right? 
Riley: Yeah. 
Tim Freeman: So he was, he was into it and he, he like double legged me and put me in key locks and stuff. I didn't know what the heck he was doing. And a few years later in oh five, so I guess about six years later, he had moved down to Riverside.
He was still in the fighting world. And I was, I had a son, he was probably two and a half at the time, and [00:09:00] I was getting kind of outta shape and I'm like, man, what am I gonna do? So I'm like, I'm gonna, I'm gonna try Juujitsu. So I called him and said, Hey man, what you know, would Juujitsu be good even if I could go once a week?
This was my plan. I'm gonna be a once a week casual guy. And yeah, right. I didn't plan any of this. And he is like, yes, you need to do Juujitsu. And so I said, well, where should I go? And he goes, you go to Pacific Coast Martial Arts in Stockton. At the time it was on Flora Street, not a great neighborhood, but that's here neither here, there, there.
And he goes, I want you to go in, ask for Nick Diaz. Tell him Matt Freeman sent you. And so I'm like, okay, I'm gonna go in and ask for Nick Diaz, tell him Matt Freeman sent me. And I had heard my cousin reference this guy, Nick Diaz, but I didn't quite have a gist for like any, any, you know, so I, I go in there and I open up the door and, and, um, the dude [00:10:00] at the front desk is there and I'm like, Hey, I'm, I'm here to see Nick Diaz.
And I got like sweatpants on like a Hanes chunky white T-shirt, you know, I'm just like, not the guy, you know? And, uh, he's like, oh, that's him over there. He points across the gym. I see this guy. So I walk over there and there's a couple dudes standing by him, and I just walk up to him, I don't know, I'm like, are you Nick Diaz?
And he is like, yeah. And I said, Matt Freeman sent me. And he goes, who the fuck is Matt Freeman? 
Riley: Sounds 
Tim Freeman: I'm like, uh, uh, like, I realize this, this has potential to go another way, right? So I kind of stumbled on my words a little bit, and I'm like, yeah, he said he trained with you. And then he said, I should come down here and train.
And then in classic Nick Diaz fashion, he goes from, I'm gonna murder you to, no, it's cool, homie. And he goes, yeah, man, it's, I probably know him. I just don't remember the name. I bet if I saw his face, it'd be cool. [00:11:00] We don't really have class tonight, but since you're here, I'm gonna give you a private lesson.
And it gives me a, our private lesson. My first day ever on the jujitsu mat, Nick DI go up there like a moron and ask for him. I feel like I'm going to get my butt kicked when he responds. And then he ends up being cool and gives me a lesson in Juujitsu. So, um, so I started training there and like, I don't know, I just kept, I kept doing it.
It was so honest and, and real in terms of like, I just knew you can't fake your way. Through this dude. Like, if you're gonna do this, you're gonna have to do it and it's gonna be a lot of hard work and it's gonna take a long time. And so I was like, yep, sign me up, man. And uh, that's kind of how I got, got my start, um, in Juujitsu, man.
I was like, I was 27 when I started. I mean, I didn't feel young then, but now when I look back I was like, I was young 27. Like dang. I was ho I was wishing, you know, you always wish you started [00:12:00] jujitsu 10 years before you did. 
Riley: Oh yeah. 
Tim Freeman: So, so you could already be a black belt when you were really a white belt.
Right? That's how, that's how everybody thinks. Like, dang, if I'd have started in 95. Um, but yeah, man, that's kind of my early life who I was, uh, had a, a different, not a traditional background. I, I went to homeschool from the seventh to the 11th grade when homeschool was lame. Like, it wasn't, wasn't remote learning, it wasn't independent studies.
There was no like, oh, I meet up with these kids three times a week and I get to play on this high school team. No, this was like, either you're a really bad kid. No school will have you or your parents do not want you around the rest of the kids. And so I was kind of like that kid. So I just, I had a real different, I had a job when I was 13.
I was working at the mall running a booth for these Canadian guys that had these booths all up and down the central California valley. [00:13:00] And they're like, man, you know, you're pretty trustworthy for 13 years old. What do you think about opening up each morning? And I'm like, okay, as long as I can get a ride.
And I just, I just worked and like kinda lived and I finished school, went to college, like did all that stuff, but it was just not traditional. It was very, very different. I'm grateful for it now.
Riley: Oh, I was gonna ask you, 'cause that, that kind of, uh, early on, put some seeds in your mind to like, Hey man, I, I can actually work. And you, you learn those lessons, right? Where other kids, it's 5, 6, 7 years later before they start learning how to work and you're, 
Tim Freeman: Yeah. 
Riley: if you're 13, you know. 
Tim Freeman: Yeah. I was early and my parents were, my parents were really good people, but most of their concern was whether we were like going to church or not. And like if we were doing all that stuff right. Then they're like, yeah, you could have a job when you're 13. Sure. As long as you're in church, you're good.
So, I mean, you know, but [00:14:00] in a way there, there were a lot of things that I learned and I figured out. At a very early age that nobody was gonna give me anything. Right? It's like, hey, if you want something, you want to get a car, you wanna get a bicycle, you want to do something, like, you're gonna have to kind of get it, get it other, because we just, we didn't have a lot.
And you know, that's neither here nor there, but I realized early on, like, you can do it. If you want it, you can do it. You can do just about anything you want to do. It's just the question is like, do you want it? And the challenge is, is often when we get there, it's, it's good, but it's not what we thought it was.
It's, it's different. It's not that it's worse, it's just not what we thought it was. And that could be hard for people on, on their way to whatever their goal is when they start to realize like, this is maybe harder or it's more work, or it's a different kind of challenge or whatever. Right. Um, it's hard for people at that point.
That's kind of that [00:15:00] point where I think people ask themselves like, is this really worth it? Is this what I want to do? I don't know. Um, there's just no, there's no guarantee. So I just say all there is is work. Just keep working.
Riley: That's a really cool perspective, man. 'cause I, I think we all do that with goals, right? We'll set these, these big old goals. And I've talked about it before on this podcast where that's why I wanted to, to, uh, or one of the factors that kept me in Juujitsu was like, man, there's not very many things in life that are a, a decade long, or, you know, to end to 
Tim Freeman: Yeah,
Riley: push for a thing. And I, that was attractive to me. I was like, you know, I've done all these other, um, triathlons and half marathons and, you know, you train for a few months and then you do the event and then there's this big let down. I was like, man, I need something longer term to, to not have that let down. Right. And I hear that little bit in what you're saying is like, you know, you, you start pressing towards a goal, but then maybe these big goals are so long that you start to wonder, man, it's changing my life for a long [00:16:00] time to do this thing.
Is it worth it? Right. 
Tim Freeman: yeah. Yes. I, and it's hard to really count the cost upfront. Like you can, you can think you have it all figured out, but there's some stuff you just don't learn until you do it. And that's just part of the game, right? That's how you get experience, which is why experience is so valuable, uh, is oftentimes it's riddled with mistakes and painful lessons, but they're extremely valuable to you moving forward.
So, yeah.
Riley: you mentioned, um. You know, early on I said I wanted to get back to it. It was this idea of you latch onto something, you have a hard time letting go. Right. Um, about that a little bit. 'cause I, like I had mentioned in the intro, you've got a black belt, gee and Nogi, which you're the first person I ever met that's ever done that, you know, and I've set those two apart.
You know, once [00:17:00] most people, it's like once they're a black belt either way, and they're, they're just a black belt. 
Tim Freeman: Yeah,
Riley: but you, you separated that and that, that takes a different level of dedication. Will you tell that 
Tim Freeman: y yeah, for sure. So I've always been, and I, I think, I think because I was, um, homeschooled, I kind of developed, you know, an ability to, to learn for myself and kind of teach myself and realized like, Hey, I gotta like stick to this. It could take a minute. Um, I definitely didn't teach myself Juujitsu, but, um, when, when I started, you know, I.
I, I, this is something I told my wife when we got married. I said, 'cause people were telling us like, you know, you don't know what it's like to be in love until you've been in love for 20 years and blah, blah, blah. And I would say like, yeah, you're, you're probably right, but I'm 23 years old, so how could I know that?
Right? So I always told my wife, I don't know what it all is, [00:18:00] but, but I'm committed. I could be committed. I could just make the, a commitment right now. I could, I could settle the question right now. I'm committed to seeing this through whatever it is. That's basically what your vows are anyway. That's what you're kind of saying.
Look, we don't know. It could be this, it could be that, it could be this, it could be that, but I'm gonna stick this out. I kind of take that mindset with, with things that I do. And I, I don't, I don't just like fri frivolously jump onto projects. I, I say no to most stuff and I think about things for a long time in my head and sometimes it almost seems like, man, this guy's not gonna do, he's, or he talks about this thing he's gonna do, but he's not gonna do it.
No. What it is, is once I kind of make the decision to do it, I'm really making the commitment. I'm saying like, I'm gonna see this through and this is gonna be more than three months. This might be three years or, or 13 years. I don't know. It [00:19:00] just depends on what it is. So that, that has kind of been like one of the factors I think in my.
My progress in Juujitsu. Like I never thought I would be a black belt. I totally just wanted to get to Blue Belt. Thought if I could get to a blue belt, I could beat, you know, 80% of the population because look in oh five, like Juujitsu was starting to grow, but it was different. YouTube wasn't YouTube, you know, there were DVDs and there were books.
I went to Borders and Barnes and Noble and I bought grappling books. Um, where you watch VHS cassettes, it was just a little harder to get information. So I, I knew that it was gonna take a while, but I thought if I could get a blue belt, like that's a huge achievement. And then I trained and it took me almost two years and somewhere around that point I got my blue belt and I felt really good.
But it was like, at that [00:20:00] point I had enough grappling experience that I knew that a blue belt was really just kind of like. Passing like the first, you know, few weeks of your semester in college, like you're just getting started and which, which is hard to hear. 'cause I remember an, an instructor came and taught a class one time and I was a, like, been a blue belt for a year or so and he said, Hey, you know, for you beginner students, like everybody who's a blue belt and below, like you guys are new, you need to work on this.
And I kind of was like, I'm not new, I haven't been training for almost three years, you know, like it, but I kind of realize now, like, yeah, I was kind of new and it, and it, and it took a while, but I, I stuck with the gee for about almost, I guess 10 years before I started training Nogi. And it was, I always felt like this, I always felt like I'm trying to master this [00:21:00] thing called juujitsu.
Like I'm trying to just at least figure it out as I was learning it. I don't have any business trying to learn any other combat. I I, I never trained any striking at the time I, I did cross train in judo a little bit 'cause I felt like it was kind of the same, uh, in terms of like, you know, it, it fed into the jiujitsu success in my brain.
Um, we used to take the gee off one month outta the year in Stockton, in in July when it's like the hottest month and we just train Nogi for a month and then. Immediately forget everything that I would learned Nogi, you know, and we were trying to do like rubber guard and twister and lockdown. I mean, that was like basically what we were trying to do, Nogi.
So, you know, I was kind of dabbling a tiny bit in 10th Planet Juujitsu, but I just mostly was training in the Gee and I round blue belt. I had a, a good, uh, training partner who was kind of one of my main instructors at the time, uh, in the gi and [00:22:00] he, he had a situation where he was available pretty much Monday through Friday, uh, and he could train and he had a key to the gym.
And I start, I was working in, in software engineering, I was working from home. So every day I took my lunch break and we trained together. And over doing that for about, I don't know, maybe a year and a half, two years, I got significantly better at Jiujitsu. And this, this guy was very self-defense oriented in the beginning.
'cause there's a lot of things I didn't know. And we went through a lot of that and it was extremely helpful to me. And so I kind of got bit by the bug and then like when you're training all the time, then you don't wanna drop back to once a week. I was like, uh, once a week. And I, you know, that's the point for me when I realized I'm gonna have to start reorganizing things in my life because this commitment that I made to do this now is starting to like.[00:23:00] 
Expand a little bit. And I have a wife and I have kids and I have a, a a a career and I'm not trying to press any of that or cut that out, but hey, I was an avid San Francisco Giants fan. I love football, loved the 49 ERs, watched basketball always into the sports. And I, at a certain point I was like, I think I'm gonna stop watching sports.
Like I, I can't do it. I can't be training all the time going to work and then come home and then be like, Hey, I'm gonna watch the game. It's like, that's not gonna work, that that doesn't serve me for what I'm trying to do. And so slowly I started kind of moving things around that, you know, were less important to me and I guess that's a sacrifice in a way.
But it was a sacrifice I wanted to make for sure. And you know, late stage brown belt in the Gee, I started trying, no, gee, I had a friend, uh, Carl Sims, the great Carl Sims up in Utah [00:24:00] who started the Proving Grounds Invitational. And it was a sub only, I think they did EBI rules. I can't remember, but I think they did.
But he was really early on, one of the first promotions to kind of jump on it. And he is like, why don't you come up and do a super fight Nogi? Boy,
Riley: Because EBI like the whole EBI rules didn't start coming around until, 
Tim Freeman: I would have to say this was 20. 15, maybe 
Riley: So I was thinking, 
Tim Freeman: 20 14, 20 15. Yeah. Yeah. Somewhere around there. And so, yeah, 'cause I had been a, I started Jiujitsu in oh five and I got my black belt in 2016 in the gi, so it had to be right around that time period. So, you know, I went up there and so I started training Nogi and what happened was I started getting beat by dudes that I could beat in the gee.
And it kind of irritated me, but it exposed a [00:25:00] weakness in my grappling in that one, which is the, the common one everybody says. But I was too reliant on the gee for offense. So, you know, the ability to hold somebody down from top, the ability to set up chokes, arm locks, it was all very gee grip oriented with the material.
And my offense wasn't that great without the gee on. And some of my guard games and my sweeps were non-existent. So it was rough. And, and I realized like, hey, there's other parts of grappling that I'm not doing because of the jacket. Not that the jacket is evil, it just kind of filters out A lot of other things don't, they don't take place.
The, the Gee game is like a little more static. It's like static, fast, fast, fast, static, fast, fast, fast static. There's like lots of, it's like an earthquake that's real shaky and sharp and. Um, [00:26:00] because of that, there's less like classic wrestling transitions because the GI just slows it down or just kills it, right?
So there was so much wrestling that I had no clue of, and there was a lot of top control that I just wasn't good at without the jacket on. And so then I, uh, in 2016, I opened a gym, uh, ended up leaving the school I was at, which was very difficult to do. And I opened a gym, uh, with another person, a business partner, and we kind of ran it where it was like, gee, on one day Nogi the next.
It just alternated every day. G Nogi Nogi. And I started training Nogi a lot. Um, I was always really good friends with Casey Halstead, coach Casey out of, uh, 10th Planet, Las Vegas, I should say. Not always, but I met Casey in my travel. So in this time I'd started inside b jj right? A podcast and kind of covering jujitsu.
This was in like 2012, I [00:27:00] think. And there just wasn't a lot of people covering juujitsu. It was all covered by dorks like me that were no podcast. All this cool stuff we have now, like all this stuff, none of it existed. There was no equipment that was made for podcast. Nope. The hardest thing to figure out was how do I have an analog old school mixer board and mics, and how do I hook that into a telephone?
So I can hear them and they can hear me and the guests that are live can hear and it, it, and I didn't know what I was doing. I just tinkered with stuff. And so I had met lots of people through inside PJJ just going places, talking to people, going up with equipment, driving all over. And Casey is one of these people I was very fortunate in my life to meet.
He turned out to be a very good mentor for me, uh, in Juujitsu and especially on the business side of things. And so, you know, I, I was talking to him quite a bit during this time. [00:28:00] Uh, I had known Eddie, I'd done some work for EBI. Eddie had been on the podcast a bunch of times, um, had hung out with him once or twice.
It wasn't like we were homies or anything, but I, I was getting, I was like, I had a working relationship with Eddie and I, even though, you know, nobody was paying and it was just like, you know, we were all kind of figuring it out. I always treated it as professional as I could. I was always respectful. I showed up on time.
I knew there was no pay. I never went into anything expecting to be paid. And I kind of like didn't even get the guys that did. It's like, dude, there's no money in this. If you're, if you don't know you're coming for free, then you should just stay home 'cause there's no money. This is all a passion 'cause we love doing it and we're hoping somehow this catches fire.
Right. And so through my kind of relationships with Eddie and the 10th Planet. Association. I, I, I started training with some 10th planet guys on and [00:29:00] off. Not a ton, not, not like, Hey, I'm 10 p for life. I, I, I don't act that way because that's not how it, that's not who I am. Right. That's not how it happened.
But, um, you know, I was training and everything was good at my gym with my partner. It was spectacular until it wasn't. And then it was just like, you know, it, mid-flight, break apart, explosion. And I, I got out, I sold my half and, and just was like, I want to just do something by myself. Like, I don't want to have a person I'm relying on it's, and sometimes you have to, but man, it's not easy.
So 
Riley: talk
Tim Freeman: I,
Riley: bit, Tim. 'cause I, I 
Tim Freeman: yeah.
Riley: really interesting for listeners of this podcast is that business partnerships, man, there's some, there's some pitfalls. You said it's, it was amazing until it wasn't. So what, 
Tim Freeman: Yeah. 
Riley: happened there? What, what made it not [00:30:00] amazing? 
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Tim Freeman: Yes. Okay. I, I will, let me, let me wrap up the, gee, the no gee black belt. Then I'll, I'll circle back to that. Sorry, I'm super [00:31:00] long-winded. I apologize. I, 
Riley: it. Go 
Tim Freeman: uh, so, so, you know, we had that split and then I was a situation where I had, you know, I had a little chunk of cash, no students, no gym, no nothing. And so I thought, I'm gonna.
I'm gonna talk to Eddie and see what his thoughts are about having a 10th planet in Stockton. And so I called Casey first and you know, said, Hey man, this is what I'm thinking, but you're my friend before all this. And if you don't think it's a good idea then just say so and I'll, I'll open another dim, I just won't pursue this avenue.
And he's like, no, I think you would be great for 10th Planet. I I, I'm gonna talk to Eddie. So he called Eddie and then Eddie told Casey, I know Tim, I'm gonna call Tim direct. And so Eddie called me and he's like, dude, we gotta put a [00:32:00] 10th planet in Stockton. Let's go. That's iconic. 2 0 9, let's do it. And so I was like, okay, let's do it.
And he goes, well you're not a 10th planet black belt, 'cause you're a black belt in the gee, you're just gonna be a 10th planet brown belt. And he is like, and it's gonna take a while, so don't rush to get promoted. And I was like, I'm not. And he goes, you know, you got a couple months to get certified with Eddie, so there's a few things he wants to see, wants you to be able to do and demonstrate.
And my first pass through, he is like, that's not it, Doug. So I was like, damn, okay. And you know, that was difficult because at that time I was 40 years old. I'm like, what am I doing? I've been trained in Juujitsu for 13 years. I got a black belt. I left this gym that I was at forever. I opened my own gym with a partner and it was spectacular.
And then it wasn't, and now I'm going like, I just got my black belt not too [00:33:00] long ago. I'm willing to step back down and be like, I'm a brown belt and I'm just gonna like, let's just see how this works over here and let's just try it. And so it was almost like starting over, except I had 11 years of grappling experience, which is super beneficial.
Right? So, um, so I, I opened 10th Planet Stockton and I always, I always took the approach with 10th Planet. I always felt like there's 10th planet guys that have come up from a white belt, they've been training and they have dreams and goals of owning a gym. And some of 'em, for whatever reason, they haven't been able to do it.
Maybe it's resources, maybe Eddie says not now. I don't know. Maybe they don't have the right support. They're just not in a place to do it. And I was able to do it, so I never wanted. To put myself up at the front, I always put myself in the back and took the approach of like, how can I be a support for these other 10th planet [00:34:00] schools that are already there?
Like, how can I build into the community, add value to what we're doing and not, you know, try to step up into the front, like, look what we're, we're 10, all this stuff. Like, it's just like, nah, you gotta kind of earn your spot. And so at least that's how I viewed it and that's the approach I took. And I, I did jujitsu, you know, I did 10th to Planet at Juujitsu for seven years before Eddie gave me a black belt.
He, he, he did. He's just like, he, he let me sit and train and practice and I act, to be honest, I appreciated it. 'cause there was a lot of things I needed to learn and I needed to build relationships in the association and I needed to pull my weight and prove myself. Uh, you know. And so, uh, Eddie, Eddie promoted me to black belt in 2024, which was cra It was crazy because I've always known who Eddie Bravo was since I started Jiujitsu.
And I never, in my wildest dreams, [00:35:00] never not on mushrooms, not on acid, not on anything, ever thought Eddie Bravo would give me a black belt, but, but he did. So that's how I ended up with two black belts. And I'll say this, I'm not the best juujitsu dude in the world. I'm, I, I got a lot of good stuff. I feel like I, I'm a pretty decent instructor.
I have a lot of great students. Um, I just think I'm good at showing up, man and putting work in and I, I don't complain much. I just did what I was told and did my best and competed at all. The belt levels competed up to, I think 41. I think when I was 41. I was like, you know what, man? It's pretty hard to run a school, work a job, have a family, and try to be a competitor, you know?
Yeah. It was just, it was rough. It's hard on your body too, like it was stressful and my attitude going into competition was like, I wanna be competitive at every belt level. I don't gotta be the world champion. 'cause that I was 27 when I started, so I figured that [00:36:00] ship has sailed. Like, you know, 
Riley: Sure. 
Tim Freeman: but if I can, if I can just be competitive at each belt, if I can win matches, I could beat guys at each level.
I could be competitive, put up a good fight. Then for me, I was okay with that because I felt like that's gonna make me a better coach. 'cause now I know what these guys are going through. I know what it means to cut weight. I know what it means to show up, have to fight some dude that is intimidating. Or, you know, maybe you don't have your, your team with you at the event 'cause somebody couldn't go or whatever.
Like, I, I get it. I know what that's like. So anyway, that's how I got to black belts, man. It was never the plan. It was just like. I just keep showing up. So thank God I can't even believe I did it, to be honest. I still can't believe it, but I'm, I'm really proud of it. Um, but I, I also feel like there's still a lot to learn.
So
Riley: Oh yeah. They always say that black belt's, when you can really start learning. Right, and I think that's what 
Tim Freeman: you, you start over. Yeah. [00:37:00] So business partner thing you had asked me about, 
Riley: yeah, yeah. 
Tim Freeman: happened? Well, I'll tell you what happened. Uh, coach Casey gave me some advice that I actually, I didn't follow, and it was a mistake. He said, when you set up your partnership, you need to set up your exit clause for your, your partnership, which is basically if any of these kinds of things happen, then our partnership is gonna end and here's how we're gonna end it.
Like, here's the steps. 
Riley: What example? Example of things. 
Tim Freeman: so let's say somebody does something illegal. I'm not, I'm not trying to say that that's what happened, but let's say somebody does something illegal and then you go, [00:38:00] okay, well if someone does something illegal, then here's how we're gonna handle it with our partnership. Or if somebody has a major life event like.
You decide, uh, you know, you wanna move or you have a baby, or your wife gets sick or your wife wants to move. Lots of like, life's changed, you know, life changes for people. So people kind of go into these businesses, maybe they're single when they start and then they end up having a wi or maybe they have a wife but no kids and they end up having kids.
Or maybe they have a wife and then they don't have a wife. You know, like maybe they go through a divorce maybe. So there's lots of things that kind of change people's lives and their, their motivations and what they're looking for. And sometimes if you're tied to somebody in a joint venture and they start having these shifts and their perspective changes in their wants [00:39:00] change, that can directly impact what you're doing.
And so, you know, you kind of need a thought out process for how are we gonna bail out of this if something happens? We didn't have that and we didn't have it because I wanted to go into it on good faith. Like, you know, Hey man, we know each other. We both know what we want. We're both committed to working hard.
So let's, let's like, be good with each other and be honest and be fair and let's get this done. And. It was kind of like that, and it kind of wasn't. So the other challenge is that when you go into a partnership with somebody and there's a lot of work that has to be done and you have to rely on each other, it's kind of like getting married to that person.
And, you know, you learn a lot about people and sometimes, you know, you see people do things where you're like, oh, I wouldn't [00:40:00] do that, but this person just did. And now that's an insight into this person's character. And it's kind of like, eh, I hate to say red flags. Everybody uses red flag. That's a red flag.
But, you know, sometimes stuff happens. It, it really is a red flag. And like, you know, there were a few, a few things where I, I, I approach business like this. If you and I are gonna be partners, then I am gonna do my damnedest not to do anything that's gonna mess up your life. And that means the business, your home life, your relationships.
Like I'm not gonna put you in jeopardy because I am doing something wrong that I know is wrong. It doesn't mean you can't make a mistake. Like I thought this was the right choice. It turns out it was the wrong choice and now the business is like suffering. Okay, that could, that's business, right? But if you choose to like, Hey, I'm [00:41:00] gonna do this and I know this is not the right thing to do and I'm not gonna tell my partner, I'm gonna hide it from 'em because I know they won't like it, but I'm gonna do it anyway.
And then you're, then I the partner find out, you know, two months later that something happened, right? So things like that started cropping up. And there was a particular thing that was like, this is not not good dog. Because now you're not just impacting the business, you're impacting my family's ability to have a regular life in the roof over their head.
And when you jeopardize that, then we can't do this. And so that it was really, really difficult. And you know, I try to go into negotiations in a way that goes like, what do I want? What do I ultimately want? Where can I be satisfied and say, yes, I'll agree to this, [00:42:00] and walk away from the table and not have resentment, right?
And that other person can also have. Whatever they need to be satisfied and not have resentment. Because even if you negotiate and you come out and you feel like, yeah, I came out and if that other person's super pissed at you, it's gonna be, oh, you're gonna have a real damn time actually fulfilling that agreement.
Right? And I tried to come into it like that. I presented some options and everything was just like, no. So, you know, it was like, okay, what am I gonna, what am I gonna do? So I had to, I had to be a very hard negotiator and basically like say, okay, well I, I can do this or I can do this, and if neither of these work, then I'm gonna do this.
And that was what was like, okay, let's make a deal. And it was hard, man, because one is like a lot of the students there, they, they don't, they don't like me now, right? Some of 'em [00:43:00] do. Their super cool with me, some of 'em came to my new gym and one of the agreements was like, Hey, we're not gonna tell students about what's happening because this is a business.
I'm not trying to hurt the business. This is something I started with somebody. I don't wanna set it on fire. I want it to thrive. And if I'm walking away with cash, then in good faith, I'm not gonna try to sabotage what you're doing. But that's just because you gotta have integrity and you gotta have some level of ethics to your life, or what are you doing, right?
So I, you know, got in a situation where. Word got, you know, things got misrepresented to students and then there were people that, to this day, to this day, there are people in that gym that I, that are new to Juujitsu that I don't know, that don't like me because my name keeps coming up over there. It, my gym.
Nobody knows anything about those people. I don't give them any air, any a nothing, nobody even knows they exist. [00:44:00] It's not important, like I'm moving forward. That was the whole kind of thing with that is like, yeah, you spend some time, you're pissed, you're mad, this, that, blah, blah, blah. But ultimately all that is wasted effort if you're not moving forward to where you're going.
So, you know, the hard thing I learned was one, having a partner is really hard. It's a serious decision. And number two is you gotta have a very clear working agreement that spells out worst case scenario, bad human behavior shit. Because if you're not willing to address that upfront, then it's gonna be a nightmare if it happens on the back end.
'cause then how are you gonna fix it then? 'cause one, the person's not gonna tell you it's gonna be hidden, it's gonna be a secret. You're never gonna get the whole story. And, and there's gonna be. It's gonna be nasty. It's already gonna be hard, but now it's gonna be nasty. So that was super difficult to go through and it kind of, it kind of soured me a [00:45:00] little bit on the juujitsu world just a little bit.
I was like, man, this is a rough game. And I remember I called Coach Casey and I was kind of complaining a little bit about it. I'm like, I don't wanna do this. I don't wanna like have to be like Yeah. With people. And yeah. And like he's like, Hey brother, if you don't wanna have blood on your hands, you're in the wrong business.
If you're in the martial arts gym owning business, you're gonna have some people that do not like you. And no matter what you do, that's gonna be part of it. And if you're not comfortable, if you can't be comfortable with that, then this is not for you. And so then I'm like, okay, well I guess I better get comfortable having some blood on my hands.
Better get good with a sword.
Riley: You are in Nashville, man. Have you ever, do you ever listened to Dave Ramsey, any of his stuff? 
Tim Freeman: Oh yeah. I know who Dave Ramsey is. Yeah.
Riley: Have you ever heard him talk about the, like the six Ds of partnerships? 
Tim Freeman: No, 
Riley: Oh, it's 
Tim Freeman: I bet they're good though.[00:46:00] 
Riley: he says you gotta, you gotta have. Your your pre agreement, you know, upfront what happens if one person dies, that's a D.
Right. 
Tim Freeman: Oh yeah. Yeah.
Riley: 'cause one of them, one 'em could die. What happens if they get a divorce? 'cause now you're, you know, you're splitting their 
Tim Freeman: Sure. 
Riley: who's mad at you 'cause you 
Tim Freeman: Hmm. 
Riley: him and it's, you 
Tim Freeman: Right, right, 
Riley: what happens if there's drug use? What 
Tim Freeman: right,
Riley: goes out and goes in debt, borrows a bunch of money on your business without your knowledge?
'cause he can, 'cause he, he's part owner. right,
Tim Freeman: right.
Riley: Um, happens in, uh, you know, if there's deceit, um, if, if they just decide to, you know, somehow cheat you, which you, you, you said, uh, illegal activity was kind of an example you brought up. And then, uh, what was the other one? Um, anyways, it's, it's a series of these.
There's, uh, and it's fascinating to me because yeah, that stuff happens man. And if you don't have some something figured out, uh, disinterest was [00:47:00] the other one. The one, one 
Tim Freeman: Oh yeah.
Riley: moves away or just decides to, I'm not, not showing up to work anymore, but I still want my half. 
Tim Freeman: Right. Yeah. 
Riley: are all real things. 
Tim Freeman: And, and you don't want to think about 'em 'cause it's kind of a bummer. It's like saying, it's like thinking about, well when you get married, it's like thinking about what happens if my spouse gets dismembered. Like, you don't wanna think about that. You're, it is uncomfortable, but you know, oftentimes the one of these Ds comes up in a business often, right?
And if they're not talked about and kind of handled upfront and at least accounted for and kind of made known like, Hey, these are the things that we don't want and we will look for it. I think that level of accountability makes everybody more successful, anyone susceptible to messing up, given the right circumstances, with the right kinds of pressures.
People make mistakes and, and it's, it's almost like, um, a, [00:48:00] a trap to think that you're above that. Like, that could never happen to me. I'm a, I'm a man of this or a man of that. It's like, well, you're trying to be a man of that, but, you know, people mess up. And so it's good to kind of have these things like kind of out there in front of you because it kind of helps you remember like, oh yeah, perspective.
I don't want to, I don't wanna fall into this, 'cause this list of things we're talking about, this is all gonna happen if I cause one of these Ds to happen. So that's, yeah. Super valuable.
Riley: Yeah. Dang. Well, So, you, you start this 10th planet school in over, in Stockton. you build that up, but then now's your turn to move, right? So
Tim Freeman: So, yeah.
Riley: from Stockton to Nashville, which is a culture shock, right? 
Tim Freeman: Oh, crazy. Um, 
Riley: Nashville? 
Tim Freeman: oh, well, a couple things. One is, so I, I [00:49:00] quit, so my careers as a software engineer, which did a great job, especially in the two thousands and the early two thousands, AI is kind of like, eh, all the engineers like. Um, but you know, it's a great career for a long time. Still is. And at the end of 2018, things were going so well with 10th plan at Stockton that I, I put in, uh, a notice at my job and I'd worked there for about eight years at that point.
And so I gave him, I really liked the team. I worked with it. There was, there was no hard feelings about the job, to be honest. Like it was a good job. I had a really good title there. I had been promoted up to the company and was doing really well, and I, uh, gave him a two month notice, you know, worked with the replacement, [00:50:00] who thank God wasn't very good because it saved me, uh, in the future.
And, and so I quit my job at the end of 2018, all of 2019. I just ran the gym and we were crushing it. I couldn't even believe it was real. I, I really couldn't. I thought, wow, this actually is working even better than what I thought it was gonna work. And, uh, a little surprising a little bit. Like, you start to see it like kind of work and you're, you're like, oh, I was almost afraid to touch anything.
Like in terms of like the money that was coming in. 'cause I thought somebody's gonna say this was a mistake and they're gonna make me give it all back, or some something's gonna, I don't know. And um, unfortunately I was right. So a global pandemic came, which out of all these, I, I planned all these disaster scenarios.
Ri like, if I quit my job and I open the [00:51:00] gym, what happens if I can never get more than 50 students? What happens if this, I had all these things and I just thought, I think I can mitigate this global pandemic not on my list. What happens if the country shuts down? Not on my list. Right? Not even close. And so COVID came and, uh, I was like, damn.
So in California originally it was like everyone's gotta close for two weeks and there was a lot of hysteria. It's like, I don't know what's going on. I honestly didn't know at the time. I was like, I have no clue. So, and while all we were getting then were like these grainy images from China of them, like putting people in the back of vans and they're like, locked in these hazmat suits, we're like, holy crap.
So we, we closed down, uh, for a couple weeks and I remember at the end of two weeks there was no like official reopening. It was just like, yeah, I don't open yet. And I remember telling my wife, I'm like, I was really down. And I [00:52:00] said, I think. This is gonna last for two years, not two weeks. Now, I didn't really know that it was gonna last for two years, but I was just really down.
And I'm like, I can't believe this. And, uh, I, I called Coach Casey and I was talking to him about it, like, I don't know what to do, man. I quit my, quit my job. I was like, I had a great career. I quit a really good job and now this is all happening. And, you know, half of my students canceled like real quick, which I understand.
Like, I didn't have hard feelings about it. I felt like nobody knows what's gonna happen. Everything's kind of unprecedented. How can I get mad? 'cause somebody doesn't want to keep their Juujitsu membership right now, you know? So it was like, I get it, but I still didn't know what I was gonna do. And, and Casey told me, he said, look, you can use this time to your advantage, or you could, you could let it break you.
He said, the, the, the whole world is on [00:53:00] pause and some people are gonna put their life on pause and they're gonna pick up bad habits and they're gonna come out of this worse than they went into it. Other people are gonna see it as an opportunity while everything's on pause to make moves and improve their lives and become a better version of yourself.
And he is like, so that's my advice to you. And, and I took it and I, I needed to hear it and I took it and I was like, okay. I made a list, like, here's the things I'm gonna do at my house. I cleaned out this back storage room that had been, been there for like eight years. Just like, what am I doing? I built my son a skateboard ramp from scratch.
I don't even know how to build, I don't know, wood tools. I built that whole bitch from scratch. His friends thought it was awesome. Um, I, I started swinging the kettlebell. I could swing that 88 pound kettlebell a hundred times. I was just like, I'm doing everything. We're gonna do it. And um, my wife was like, Hey, [00:54:00] I think you should call your old company up and see if they have work.
And I really didn't want to do it. This was a couple months in after been a couple months. I was like, I really don't wanna do it. And I didn't wanna do it because of my pride. And my pride was this, is that at my going away party when I left the job, there was one particular coworker who, who I like, you know, he's not a bad dude, but he made a disparaging remark.
I heard it and it was one of those remarks that they don't even know you hear, but you hear and it it like blazes in your head and somebody at the table saying, that's really cool that you have this thing that you've been side hustling for years. And like it's a real thing now and you're gonna do it.
Like, I'm really happy for you Tim. And my coworker goes, just give it some time. He'll be back. [00:55:00] None this, this never works. I've seen people do this. He'll be back. And because he said that I did not want to go back to work, I didn't wanna call that place back up. 'cause I'm like, he's just gonna be like I was right.
You know? You know, that's how I thought. And I kind of, I told my wife and my wife's like, who cares what this dude thinks? This guy is not paying you. He's not putting food on your table. He is not, he's not a factor in your success one bit, but you're gonna let him be a factor in your failure because some bullshit.
He said, so I'm like, you're right. So I, I called my old boss up and I'm like, Hey man, uh, I don't even wanna make this call. I'm just being real with you. But hey, this is where I'm at. And he goes, you don't know how happy I am that you called me right now. The guy we hired to replace you turned out to be not very good.
And there's a whole backlog of work that [00:56:00] we, we can't find anybody to do. And you're the one that knows how to do all of it. And we got a huge budget for contract hours. So like, when do you wanna start? And so that, and, and I told, I told this particular, uh, ended up becoming the vice president at a certain point in the company, but I, I told him, I was like, man, I knew him very well, just on a personal level.
So I, I could just talk to him however I wanted to talk to him, like respectful. But you know, he, we, we were friends and I, I told him like, dude, you really, you really saved me during that time period because you had work for me and you let me come back to work. You could have easily just been like, no, I'll see what I can do.
Made no promises and just gave it to somebody else. But you didn't, and it made, it, it like, it really saved my butt is what it did. 'cause I didn't know this was going to like, even though I said it'd be two years, I didn't know it was gonna be two years. Um, and I, I eventually, I started contracting about 20 hours a week, and [00:57:00] then I reopened the gym.
We blacked out the windows. Um, tech we did, I'm not gonna lie, went down there, blacked it all out, texted all my students. Hey, I love you guys. No hard feelings over anything. If you don't want to train again, I totally understand it. The doors are open for you. If this all ever resolves itself. If you do wanna train again, I'll be at the gym on Monday, Wednesday, and Friday on these nights.
And if you decide to come, don't wear your gym clothes. Wear street clothes. Don't congregate in the front and talk and slap it up like you used to. Just come into the gym, do all your socializing in the gym, and when you leave, go to your car and go the fuck home. You know, it was a big parking lot, so it's like, just don't park.
Like, just be smart. And, you know, I had a good, a good amount of students show up and that was like, okay, I, I can get something back that I've been missing. And we started training again and we kept the school alive [00:58:00] through that, which I'm super grateful for. And then we come to find out that like there was a church next to us that was doing the exact same thing, and there was a nail salon on the other side, all three of us.
And we just see each other like slipping in and out. Like, and one day a cop pulled up. We were running a kid's class during COVID and a cop pulled up and we're like, oh no, this is not gonna be good. And the cop um, saw a parent and a kid walking in and the cop's like, Hey, what's going on in there? And the parent was like, I like, they kind of didn't wanna say, you know, 'cause they thought, great, we're gonna get busted right now.
And then the cop goes, I'm not gonna bust you. I'm looking for a place to take my son. Like he has nothing to do. You guys have something going on here. So ended up getting, got a sign up outta that. I got, I got some signups during COVID. A lot of the people that I signed up during COVID stuck with it.
They're still training [00:59:00] today. They turned out to be really great students. So, um, so yeah, so then, you know, my wife goes like, Hey, Stockton's rough. And you know, my wife grew up in San Jose in the Bay Area and we got married in 2000. We've been living in Stockton. I grew, I've been there, was there my whole life.
But she moved out there when we got married and, you know, been there for 20 years. And I kind of would tell her like, yeah, someday we'll move, someday we'll move, blah, blah, blah. But then it was like, you know, everyone's doing stuff. I got the gym, we got this, we got that. And we were kind of like talking about it.
And I was kind of frustrated. I was like, I didn't wanna move. And I said, she's like, we should move back. To the Nashville area. 'cause my wife's sister lives back here. She lived back here for about six or seven years at that point. And my wife had been back to visit. And if, you know, Nashville's a great town, I had no clue.
But, you know, there's some [01:00:00] towns around it, like Franklin and Brentwood are extremely close within 15 minutes. And Franklin's like a, a dream town. It's like a hallmark city. I had no clue these things existed at all. And she's like, I think you would really like Franklin. I wanna move to Franklin. And I'm like, dude, why do you wanna move to the south?
Like, we're from California, I'm from Stockton. Like, what are you talking about? It sounded insane to my brain. And you know, we were kind of going back and forth and then I, I pulled one of these moves, which is a tactic I've used in the past that worked. I said, you know what, if you really wanna move, then screw it.
Let's just move. I'll just tell the students we're moving and if nobody, if I can't find somebody to run it, we'll just close it down. We're just gonna move. I'm tired. And in the past that move would get her to acquiesce and she would go like, no, I know it's a lot. It's just frustrating. Like, but this time she said, thank God I [01:01:00] thought you would never come to your senses.
I'm gonna start planning right now. And then I realized like, oh no, 
Riley: Man. 
Tim Freeman: like one, I told her. Yes. And two, it's like she really wants this, like she wants this. Not just like min, like she's, she wants to go. And, um, that was hard, man. You know, I was really in turmoil because I, I, whether it's right or wrong, you know, as a business owner, it probably hurts me.
I really love the students that train. Like, I like those relationships. They're some of, some of the most valuable things that I have. And I do care about people's progress off the mats more than on the mats. I love it when people come in and they're like, yeah, I'm trying to get my degree, or I'm trying to go to go through the Sheriff's Academy, or, um, or I'm just trying, dude, I've been a, a criminal my whole life.
I'm trying to go, you know, trying to make [01:02:00] something of myself. I'm trying to do something different. Uh, I just came out of a 15 year bad relationship and I was an alcoholic for two years and I finally stopped drinking. And I just want, I, for me, I think because I grew up in church and there was like that motivation to help people, I kind of had that in my heart since the time I was little and I didn't have an outlet for it.
And I found that outlet in Juujitsu where it was like, okay, hey, you know what, uh, this is not the gospel of Jesus, but this is the gospel of Elio. I could share this with you and it could help, you know, like it could, it could help you in your life. It can help you. And I knew that because it helped me. I had seen it help other people.
And I, and it's not that, like, it's not, the moves are magical. It's just, this is a hard thing. It's not easy. You're gonna fail a lot. You can't lie about it. 'cause everybody sees, and, and gig Juujitsu is like really good for this. You wear your rank all class and you [01:03:00] roll, and everybody knows where everybody stands at the end of class.
There's no, my secret moves, oh, I would do this to you. There's none of that. Because we get on the mat and we settle it and, and you know, where you stand. And being exposed to that repeatedly, I think is really good for you as a person outside of jujitsu, you know, it, it really, you can take that with you.
And so it was, I, I had a hard time. I was conflicted. I didn't, I didn't want the school to die. And maybe some of it was pride, but a lot of it was just like, well, they're not gonna have a place to train. Like, yeah, they'll go to other schools, but this is theirs. Like, you know, they supported it. They came here during COVID.
Many of them kept paying. They were helping, they were volunteering, they were doing everything they could do to keep it alive. And so I felt like I can't just close the door on it, even though that would've been way easier for me and way less stressful. But, [01:04:00] so I told my wife, well. There's a stipulation for moving and it's that I want to keep the gym in Stockton and I wanna open a gym in Nashville if Eddie's cool with it.
And so she agreed to that. So I, I called Eddie and I'm like, Hey man, we want to get out of California and we're gonna move to Nashville. There's no 10th planet and you know, I'm gonna keep Stockton going and I'm gonna open it. I, I would like to open a 10th planet in Nashville if you think it's the right thing to do.
My plan was if he said no, I was just gonna join a gym somewhere and just train and just have a gym remotely and figure out, you know, how to sell it or do something. And Eddie was like, Hey brother, the world's crazy right now. I would never stand in your way. Like, let's go. And, and I think at that point I had a good enough track record with Eddie that he knew that I was gonna follow through with whatever I said I was gonna do.
And so he [01:05:00] just green lit it. And so I showed up and like, boom, we opened a gym pretty quick and that was a different experience. 'cause I didn't know anybody in Nashville. Like literally I was just like, Hey guys, I'm here. Um, but you know, it was a challenge to do that. To leave a school is not easy and it's hard to put somebody in place to lead it in your absence because you really do need somebody that has boots on the ground that can make decisions that can kind of be the sole of it, because.
I don't mean this in like a conceited way, but I was the soul of that school when I was there. You know, like I was in every class teaching all the time, like connecting people together. And then when that leaves, you need somebody or multiple people who can kind of do that. And I had some people that kind of picked up on that.
Like, they were like-minded. They saw that vision, they're like, yes, this is what I want. Um, but, you know, I, I'd left somebody in charge initially who was a [01:06:00] black belt, who had, you know, he had the tech, the, he had the teaching experience and acumen to do the job, but not the work ethic. And I'm, and I made another mistake.
Riley: Tell us about that.
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Tim Freeman: So the mistake I made is I thought, well, I see potential in this person, and if I, excuse me, if I set this person up to succeed, then, then they can succeed and they'll, they'll grow and they'll get better. And then it will pay dividends in the future. This was like, I'm gonna invest in this person. So I, uh, offered him a full-time teaching gig.
I paid him pretty well for being a full-time jujitsu instructor, considering that this dude wasn't he, he had been laid off. He was driving a forklift. He, uh, look, not, not disparaging anything, I'm just saying he didn't have this other crazy career prospect going on. He was literally just like looking for work, you know?
And so he was pretty motivated in the beginning. And, uh, you know, I, [01:08:00] I was paying him to do the job. It's just he wasn't doing the job. And it was, it was difficult. And I set up a structure for him to make a lot more, more if the gym grew. So as the gym grew, it would directly benefit him and myself, right?
Because, I mean, I'm, I'm a capitalist. I'm trying to, I'm not trying to give, give it away, you know? So, um, he ran it and no, none of my students said much to me in the beginning, like, yeah, it's good, it's good. But then like, I had a few people cancel. They're like, I don't like this guy. But in the beginning I just thought, Hey, that's just, I knew there would be a fall.
Anytime the leadership kind of changes, there's gonna be a fallout. That's just, you're not gonna keep everyone, you're not gonna make everyone happy. And some people you think are riding with you. Are not riding with you because when you make a switch, they bail and other people are just looking for the right moment to bail.
They already want to bail for other reasons and they just don't have the heart to do [01:09:00] it. But then you give them an opportunity like, Hey, we're moving. Oh, I'm out. Hey, you know what? I gotta, so, you know, there was definitely a drop off, but I just, I couldn't get through to this particular individual. And the other coaches were basically doing all the work except for the person that was really getting paid, paid.
And so, um, I had to let 'em go and it was rough 'cause they didn't take it well. But again, you know, I kind of give people enough rope to hang themselves if that's what they're gonna do. 'cause I, I feel like this, look, people make mistakes. People need experience. The only way you get it sometimes is by kind of messing up here and there.
And, and that's okay. You know, you learn from it. You grow. As long as we're honest and we're, we're trying to move in the right direction, we could work with that. But it became, became clear like, this dude's not working in the right direction at all. Which sucks, man, because then it made me question like, do I have a lack of judgment?
Like, am I, am I [01:10:00] investing in the wrong kinds of people? Right? Like, what is it that I, and, and in this situation it was more of like, I was in a pinch and this was the best person for the job. Um, and also, you know, when you leave a gym. There's a lot of wolves that come around who are like, Hey, let me see what I can do.
And I needed a wolf. I needed my own wolf in the gym. The problem is that the wolf will keep the other wolves away, but then he'll prey on all the students in the meantime. And that's kind of what was, what was taking place. And so I, I had to make a switch and that was hard, but it was easy. 'cause as soon as the switch was done, things got much better.
The, the right people that were really doing the work got put in place and, and it improved pretty drastically. And so, you know, and it, and it, and one of the, one of the things we talked about is like, it's a challenge to run a business from a distance. Like, I, I, I, I still struggle with that, to be honest with you.
And it's that, that being in constant communication, [01:11:00] understanding when you need to make a decision and when you need to back off and let them make the decision is, is tricky. And training a person to kind of get in the driver's seat and take over if you want it. If you're just trying to bail and you just want money, then, then yeah, you can just sell your gym to anybody and just walk away.
But if you're trying to like, put it in good hands with somebody that can grow it and nurture it, and it could be valuable to them in the future, then, then that takes time to build those people up and, and work with them. So I'm, I try to approach it that way. I feel like I'm doing an okay job now, but it's, it's still a lot.
I didn't think I was gonna own two gyms. Ri I was ne not in my business plan.
Riley: Tim, you've, you've mentioned, uh, coach, is it Coach Casey? Is that 
Tim Freeman: Yeah. Casey Halstead. Yeah, 
Riley: a, 
Tim Freeman: yeah,
Riley: role in your life. And, um, I want you to talk about the value he's brought to you from that perspective. 
Tim Freeman: yeah. I, you know, [01:12:00] when I was going to, to college, uh, and I went to Sacramento State, and one of the thing, and I don't know if they still talk about this at school, it's been a long time, but one of the things they, they talked about a lot was like, you need to, you need to find good mentors. And, and I, I was a, I from, I don't know why, when I was like 12 or 13, I was at my grandparents' house and my uncle had this Tony Robbins book, you know, Tony Robbins, the motivational guy.
It was his first like big paperback, unlimited power. And I had never been exposed to these concepts before. And I remember flipping through the book and I was super intrigued by it. So I, I stole the book from my uncle. I'm like, I'm just gonna take this home with me. And I took, I took it home with me and I read it and, and there was some good things that actually stuck with me my whole life.
But one of the things was you need to, you need to [01:13:00] look for people that are doing what, what you want to do, or the things you think you want to do, and you need to. Build relationships with those people and understand and use those people as models. And, and Casey was one of those people and I, the, the crazy, not crazy, but the interesting thing about Casey is that, you know, not everybody likes Casey.
And I don't think Casey cares if I say that. Like Casey can be very direct and very much like, Hey, but for me, I don't care. 'cause I feel like this guy's looking out for me. Like he, he might be direct, but sometimes you need it. You need it direct. And um, Casey was somebody who I, it one time, and I might have my numbers like one unit off.
I think he had nine or 10 gyms at one time. 
Riley: wow. 
Tim Freeman: Yeah. So he's like, you know, some really good, probably some not, not so great. Right. And then he moved to Vegas way ahead of the [01:14:00] wave, uh, in terms of Jiujitsu, which turned out to be a very brilliant move and opened up, uh, there's two 10th planets out there. They got one in Henderson, which is the main one, and they have a, another one that's in the city of Las Vegas.
It used to be downtown, but I think, I think they moved it a little bit. But, um, I would, I would just call Casey and ask him questions about anything that I felt like I couldn't make a decision about or I needed like, better input on. 
Riley: this. 
Tim Freeman: I would just throw it out to him. And oftentimes, you know, I would just do whatever he said.
And sometimes I didn't, 'cause it wasn't like a super serious thing, but there was a couple times when he was like, Hey, I'm expecting you to do this because I'm accountable to Eddie for you. I called Eddie and talked to him, so you better do this. And, and I take that stuff very seriously. Like if, because if you don't, then what do you have?
You know, if, if somebody sticks [01:15:00] their neck out for you or they make a call for you and that bolsters your reputation with somebody else, and they kind of, they're kind of like taking a piece of their reputation and going like, I'm gonna co-sign for you on this. So you can't let those people down. You have to, whether you feel like it or not, you have to abide by, by what they've done for you.
And, and that's not always comfortable or easy to do. And I'm not a super confrontational person. I have a hard time telling people like, take off dude. Uh, but you know, I've had to get a lot better at that over time. But Casey's been really helpful in that sense. Uh, when it came to like making difficult decisions, like when my business partner was doing some really janky stuff, you know, I, I just as a sounding board, like, Hey, am I outta my mind here?
Like, is this the kind of thing you would break up a business for? Like, what should I be doing? Um, to just like some like handling disputes between [01:16:00] students. I've had a couple situations where. I had students, you know, say something happened that didn't happen. Um, you know, act like they're gonna make a big stink about things.
They're like, dude, you're making things up 'cause I have the video of what happened. And that did not happen. Um, you know, just advice like that. He's been super helpful. And, and the thing that a mentor does oftentimes is like a mentor generally has more experience than you in the thing you're trying to do.
And they've also kinda walked through some of those paths and have made the mistakes. And a good mentor can get their point across to you in a way that you can understand without having to go make the damn mistake. 'cause that's really the most expensive way to learn. The best way to learn is by observance.
I watch Riley, Riley falls down and bumps his head. I don't walk the way Riley walked 'cause I don't wanna fall down and bump my head. That's the cheapest way to learn. It's great. Free, no harm [01:17:00] on me. Ri got a head bump, I'm good. But most of us are like, I won't bump my head if I walk down there. And then you gotta bump your head too, and then you're like, damn, you'll bump your head if you walk through there.
Right? That's, that's what a good mentor can do. They cannot just tell you like, Hey, you're gonna bump your head. They'll tell you how they bumped their head, how they didn't think they were gonna bump their head, how somebody had told them they were gonna bump their head and they didn't believe it. And then they'll show you exactly how you're gonna bump your head.
That can help you avoid a lot of pitfalls. So I, I really do appreciate his friendship in that. And he's, he's helped a lot. There's a lot of people I know in Juujitsu that are not necessarily like close friends that I've just met, and they have the same story about Casey. They're like, Casey saved my life, dude.
If it wasn't for Casey, I wouldn't be doing any of this right now. So he's, he's a very, very good dude. I'm really grateful for him.
Riley: I love to hear you say that, man, because you, you don't [01:18:00] meet people often enough. I feel that can just give you the, the hard truth. Right. 
Tim Freeman: Yeah, 
Riley: up how it is. And you said, 
Tim Freeman: yeah,
Riley: maybe as a little, a little brash, a little blunt, but God, that's refreshing. Sometimes when you're full of a bunch of people who wanna sugarcoat everything and dance around the, you know, it's like, get to the 
Tim Freeman: yeah, 
Riley: Just thinking, tell 
Tim Freeman: yeah, yeah. The challenge we have in culture today is that there's a lot of people that kind of hide behind. Like, I, I tell it like it is right. I'm upfront. I'll just tell you what I think and that's okay. But oftentimes they're not telling you anything helpful. They're just telling you how they're feeling and what they're thinking, and I'm straight up and it's, it's like, that's okay, but that's kind of just you dumping all your emotional garbage out and just throwing it out.
we need more people that [01:19:00] will tell you the truth with the motivation that, that that hard truth will help you. Not with the motivation of, I'm gonna get this out 'cause you're gonna know exactly where I stand. That's like, that's not that beneficial. And oftentimes that message is lost and then the other half of us are like, I don't wanna hurt their feelings.
I don't know how to say this to this person. I don't think he's gonna listen. Right. So that's like another challenge that Mo most people have that challenge. They just want to go along to get along. Don't wanna rock the boat, don't wanna, you know, if it's somebody they really care about, they might say something, but they'll just let you walk off the side of the cliff 'cause they don't wanna hurt your feelings.
Which is insane, right?
Riley: what a great way to say that, man. They'll let you walk outside of a cliff 'cause you know. Yeah. I feel like that's something that I, I find a little too often in church, right? Is everyone wants to be so nice. They'll let you do the dumbest stuff and not say a word 
Tim Freeman: [01:20:00] Yeah,
Riley: to be nice.
And it's like, no man, be mean to me a little bit. Tell me the 
Tim Freeman: yeah. They don't want to be a troublemaker or they don't want to be like cast as somebody who like, oh God, you know that guy, that guy's a jerk. He's always saying stuff and, and I mean, some people are, they are always saying stuff, but 
Riley: Some people are jerks, right? I. 
Tim Freeman: yeah, they are. But if a person is doing the things you want to do. And they, when you, you don't see moral and ethical, you know, tears in the fabric of their life.
Like, people make mistakes. It happens like nobody's above that. But that's not their way of life. That's not their pattern of life. And that person's doing what you want to do. If they tell you something, you should probably listen. You know? And, and that's not easy. If somebody tells you, look, guys, tell me things all the time that don't have a job, have never had a job, have very little [01:21:00] anything other than staying home and playing video games and coming to class once every three months.
When those guys tell me, you know what you need to do, I, it just goes in one ear and go, goes out the other. 'cause I'm like, 
Riley: Yeah. 
Tim Freeman: dog. I'm not, I'm not taking your advice, but someone like Casey does. And I shut, I shut up and listen.
Riley: Oh, that's so beautiful, man. so beautiful in this, um, you know, from your business owner perspective. Um, switch gears here a little bit, but you know, you talked about, um, this coach you had that you, you had to, to let go because he was just not really doing his job. Um, how does that, you ever had to do that with a client?
Like in, in, in jujitsu we call 'em students, right? But that's, this is your 
Tim Freeman: Yeah.
Riley: is what it, what it is. And have you ever had to fire a customer? 
Tim Freeman: Yeah. I've had to fire. A few, it gets easier. Um, uh, so, you know, I, I don't have a ton of gym [01:22:00] rules when it comes to the gym. You know, I have a couple of rules and I don't even think they're outlandish. Like my rules are shared burden of safety. So that means whoever you're rolling with, you gotta be looking out for their safety and they gotta be looking out for yours.
The minute either partner decides I wanna win more than I want to protect my partner's safety, then their partner by default now has to own a hundred percent of the safety right, of that. And then you're no longer doing juujitsu with that person. You're trying to keep them from injuring you, injuring themself or injuring someone else.
And that's not fun. And when you're that person, you don't realize it. But then people don't wanna roll with you. They avoid you, they skip you. You end up sitting out a lot of rounds on the side because when the timer goes off and everybody groups up, you're looking and nobody's looking at you. 'cause you [01:23:00] don't understand there's a shared burden.
Like it's not just about winning, it's about getting better. And winning is great, but it's also about like these moves are really dangerous and we kind of like gloss over it. We do it so much. Like you could really hurt somebody with these moves. And it happens all the time. Like really hurt somebody. And so if someone's not abiding by that, it gets real difficult to, to work with them.
Right. So, so that's one of my things. I preach a lot and I will slow people down. I will tell people they gotta relax. I, I don't, I'm very, very aware of people getting heated on the mats and getting upset at each other. I'm not for that. I, I, I try to completely take out the, it's me versus you. And I try to make it, it's the set of techniques I'm choosing to use against the set of techniques you're choosing to use.
It's not my manhood and my toughness against your manhood and toughness. 'cause that's gonna lead to a fight. [01:24:00] It's gonna escalate and it's gonna lead to a fight, especially amongst men. That's just how guys are. I try to tell my wife, my wife always goes like, did you ask, oh, you saw Mike today? Did you ask him about this?
Did you ask him how his, uh, his fiance's daughters? Did you ask about? And I'm like, no, I didn't, Mike, which we talked about Juujitsu. We hung out. Well, you didn't ask him about what happened that time when him and his girl got in a fight. I'm like, no. She's like, how come? And I said, well. Because guys are like this.
If we get in each other's business too much, we end up physically fighting each other and, and we could die. We don't wanna do that. So we kind of like give each other a girls, like, I don't, someone might say I'm, I'm a boomer and I'm sexist. But women in general are like, they kind of get in each other's business a little bit.
You know what I mean? And guys are just like a little more, they, they, they, they step back a little bit. Um, but, uh, I don't, I don't know why I said all that. Uh, I was going somewhere with it. Ri but, um, [01:25:00] yeah. Oh, firing customers. So rules. So the other gym rule I have is about, and it's guys have to wear shorts over their spats.
There's no spats only running around. I don't wanna see that. And it's hard enough for the girls to come and train jiujitsu. They don't wanna see that either. Just put some shorts on, right? So I've just, 
Riley: just, because it's physically 
Tim Freeman: yeah, 
Riley: Let alone 
Tim Freeman: just put shorts on 
Riley: Yeah. 
Tim Freeman: and the, and these guys that try to wear these little tight little, like, they look like underwear and they're trying to, it's like, no, put some shorts on.
I don't wanna train with you like this. I don't care. I don't wanna train with you. And for the women, it's, Hey, look, no booty shorts in class. Like, it, it have leggings on. Don't have some tiny little shorts on and some tiny little top. Like, that's not what we're doing. We're not here for that. We're here for grappling.
We're here to do, we're here to learn juujitsu. It's dirty, it's grimy. It's [01:26:00] very challenging. It's very difficult. Just because I'm nice doesn't mean it's gonna be easy. It's still hard. I'm just trying to take out all the other bullshit that I see that messes up gym culture terribly. And that's one of, and look, biology is biology, nature's nature.
Like the, one of the, my, my lead in Stockton is a female, was trained me for a long time and she met her fiance in Jiujitsu. But it was an organic, real relationship. It wasn't like, Hey, I'm dating every guy in the gym. I've had, I have had that. I have had situations like that where now dudes are mad at each other or now girls are mad at each other and it's like, this is, the gym is not like your little side tender.
Like, take that outta here. I don't want that. It's not your place for political discourse, religious discussions, any of that. You're gonna ruin it. If you do that, you're gonna [01:27:00] literally ruin the purpose of this space. This space is for grappling. It's about juujitsu, it's about people coming together, putting hard work in.
You know, learning where they're failing and moving forward, helping each other. Look, we can have philosophical differences. We could have political differences, we could have religious differences. But when we get on the mat, none of that matters. It, it doesn't, you could believe all the right things, but if you can't do juujitsu, I'm gonna whoop your ass.
And that's just, but that's what we're doing. We're doing that. So, um, I really try to protect the space. Now, having said that, I have had one situation where a particular family came in and, and they seem like they were okay, and I, I had a little bit of like, eh, because the, this, the, the, the father of the family had called me and said, Hey, we're gonna be moving out to your area, or we're out in your area and [01:28:00] blah, blah, blah.
We train at these other gyms, and my daughters had all these bad experiences, all these pervert instructors, everyone was trying to get in their dms, do this and do that, blah, blah. Okay? Said, Hey man, that's not the kind of ship I'm running. I can't pro I look, I, I have had male students send female students dms.
Hey, you wanna go out to lunch tomorrow? I don't know they're doing it. I don't like it. I don't particularly like it. But I also realize like, I'm not the boss of these people. Like they have their own life and I don't wanna be the boss of them. I don't wanna be making rules and responsible for everybody's life.
That's, that's your job. You be responsible for your life. Let me be responsible for mine. So, uh, it's like, okay, they started training and you know, sometimes actions don't line up with what you're told. You're told like, Hey, you know, they don't want any attention. They don't want to have any interact. They just wanna like, but it's like, that's not [01:29:00] the behavior I'm seeing, but that's whatever, you know.
And there was a couple of, uh, you know, violations of the dress code. I said, Hey, listen, it's not personal. It's just I'm trying to keep the, keep it a certain way. I don't have that many rules. I'm not trying to come down hard on you, but I'd really appreciate it if you could make an effort to like, wear something different.
Oh yeah. It's just, I don't have that much, but yeah, yeah, yeah. And then it, it kept happening, so it's like, Hey, we gotta talk. Like, can we have a talk about this? And in the course of the talk, the what should have taken five minutes to just be like, Hey, you know, I really need you to do this. Like, I, it, it doesn't have to be that big of a deal.
It took, you know, I'm 40 minutes deep into this conversation and this dad that I'm talking to who has an adult daughter, she's an adult in her twenties, been married. [01:30:00] Not a kid. Not a little kid. We're talking about a full grown ass adult. Uh, you're not allowed to address my daughter. If you have anything, you have to come through me because that's the way my family handles our communication.
And I was like, well, she's a grown woman and she's my student and she's violating the dress code, so I'm not gonna come to you. I'm gonna go tell her directly. And I was nice about it. And it, and it was like, oh, you're an abusive instructor. You, uh, you're a narcissist. All the, all the big keywords that get thrown, thrown.
You're lighting, you're doing this, you're doing that. And I'm just sitting there and I'm like, I'm super pissed off because I had a visitor that I was really looking forward to seeing in class. But instead of being in class, I had to have one of my coaches run the class. 'cause I'm in the side room having this stupid conversation with this person.
And after like 40 minutes, I was like, duh. The light bulb went off. And I just [01:31:00] said, you know what? I don't think this is the right gym for you, man. Like, this is not it. And it's okay. I don't, I don't want to have hard feelings towards you, but sometimes things just don't work out. It's not a problem. I'm gonna re and it was five people in the family.
This was a significant chunk of change. I wanna refund you guys money for this month, even though it was near the end of the month. Just like I just wanted to walk away. You guys, best of luck to you. I'm not gonna tell anybody what happened and I didn't. Maybe this is my problem. I never tell people like, this guy did this and that guy did that.
'cause I just think it's like, it's wasted energy and effort. Like, we're moving forward, we're not looking back, we're going forward. He got really upset 'cause I think he thought he was gonna convince me to like let them do what they want and be on the team and I was just not gonna do it. And so they left and they hung out outside, which I didn't even know 'cause I went back in the class and then they proceeded to tell every person who left the gym.
Oh, coach [01:32:00] Tim went crazy and kicked us out of the gym and did this and that. And like this person sent a big old giant text message this long to Eddie Bravo. So I get a call from Eddie, which Eddie doesn't call me very much. And, and so when I see the phone I'm like, oh, I wonder what this is. Like Eddie's calling me and it's like, Hey, do you know this guy?
I'm like, yeah. And he goes, I need you to look at these messages and like, tell me what this is about. And I get these texts and, and it, it's worded like, this daughter is eight years old and I'm just picking at her every class. I can get every mean thing, I can do every, all this stuff. And I'm like, Eddie, brother, you know, this is not true.
This is what happened. So Eddie's like, Hey, I want you to communicate what you just told me to him, which I had already done, but I'm like. Perfect. I will. So I communicated it and then that was it. I never saw him again. He talked mad trash about me. I had like seven or eight students quit because they believed it.
Right. [01:33:00] Uh, and you know, even the students that didn't quit, a couple of 'em were like, Hey, what happened? And at that point I told a couple people some of the details, like, this is what happened. It's not what he's saying, but I don't want to turn our whole gym. Like, I don't want to give this drama all this attention.
It's gonna suck the energy outta what we're doing. And so this is what happened. And it was a little, a little rough, like it's kind of a setback at that point. 'cause he's lost seven or eight people in a shot. Like the morale kind of goes down. Uh, you start seeing these people show up at other gyms. This particular family, this dude ended up revealing himself as a total crazy person.
Anyway, it all came out in the wash anyway. But those students that I left never came back. They never said like, Hey, I had it wrong. So, and, and that, that's just the part you realize that's blood on your hands. There's nothing you could do. You gotta, you gotta chop it. 'cause if you don't, eventually instead of seven or eight, you're gonna lose [01:34:00] 17 or 18.
'cause they're gonna screw up the culture in your gym. 
Riley: Yeah. 
Tim Freeman: So I, I, you know, I've had to fire students for that. I had to fire a dude who came to me, signed up, seemed cool, did not know him. Again. I've only been out here for four years. There's a lot of people I don't know. Been training with us for a few months, and then another student goes, oh, this guy's training with us.
Dude, I'm not telling you what to do, but this guy hurt me really bad in the past, being crazy on the mats, and he has a reputation for hurting people. And I'm like, oh shit. Well, I wish you would've told me immediately, but, but hey, it's not your fault. He's hurting people. So he's like, you should call this other school.
He used to train there. He got kicked out. So I called this other school and I'm like, Hey, uh, this guy used to train there. Yeah. He, he went off on a 15-year-old, like hurt him, jacked him up. And then he like, was going way too hard training with one of the girls and, and hurt her. Something like that. [01:35:00] So he's training in my gym.
I'm keeping a close eye on him and I'm like, Hey, you know, be cool. Shared burden of safety, right? And I trained and this guy, he never like, integrates well, doesn't talk much, does not, doesn't build relationships. He ends up hurting one of my good students. And it's kind of a freak thing. Uh, the injury is a freak thing.
It really is. I take that video, I send it out to like four, I send it out to Brandon McCaffery. I sent it to a, a good doctor friend of mine out here who's also a black belt in Juujitsu. I sent it out to several people. I said, watch this video. This is the injury that happened. Do you think anything was like off?
I didn't wanna like cloud their judgment. I just wanted to know like, what's, what do you think? And they're all like, I've never seen that before. That's wild that that person got this particular injury from that particular position. And so I'm like, this could be an anomaly. It could. It could be. So I tell the guy, listen, I've reviewed it, I've [01:36:00] had people review it.
It looks like this was just like a freak thing. Sometimes you zig and somebody zags and shit happens. But having said that, you have a very bad track record of injuring people. So that means from here on out, you can't injure anybody for anything. Whether it's your fault or not, you can't do it. Or I'm gonna have to cut you loose, dude.
Like I, and I don't wanna do that. But you can't do it. So you're gonna have to, in some positions, you're gonna have to give up positions in some spots. If you're fighting for something and you feel like for now till you get some good time onto your belt without sending anyone to the hospital, you're gonna have to like choke it back even more.
Yeah. Okay. Okay. Un okay. Behavior man. Six months later, going for a takedown, can't get it steps across, tries to hit some crazy throw, ends up fracturing guy's leg that he's training with [01:37:00] and. The guy is in pain, he's on the ground, he's reacting like, you're like, oh shit. It's like the whole class stops kind of injury.
Right. And the dude that hurt him is not even attending to him. He's just like sitting off over, he just walks off over on the side, gets water he is telling off, and we're like, oh my God. 
Riley: and I always wanted to, 
Tim Freeman: Yeah. Well, it gets worse.
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Tim Freeman: So I'm like, okay. So we're trying to figure out like, what do we gotta do? Who do we gotta call?
And this student's like flipping out and, and, and we get him calm and we're working with him. And then, you know, I tell the, after a few minutes, I'm like, Hey, you guys just go back to class. Like he doesn't need 30 people standing around him the whole time, you know? So they go back to class. Now the guy that injures him just goes back to class, starts rolling with somebody else, never checks on him, doesn't offer to help, help him get his gear, doesn't offer him to help him downstairs for his ride.
Never calls him one time to check on him, never sends a message, never reaches out to anybody. Just so I, I reached out to the student, got hurt. I was in communication with him a lot, and I'm like, Hey, did so and so ever reach out to you? He's like, no. So then I called the previous student that got injured in the freak accident, and I'm like, Hey, when this guy did this to you and you had to have surgery, did he ever reach out to [01:39:00] you?
Not a word, never said a thing, didn't even seem like he cared. So I told the guy like, Hey man, I told you you couldn't have any accidents and you did. So this is not the right gym for you giving you your money back for this month. You gotta find another gym to train at. And furthermore, you didn't ask me for my advice, but I'm gonna give it to you in the future.
You need to build better relationships with the people you train with. So if you do have an incident like this, you have some goodwill built up with these people and they don't immediately assume you're a jerk and you heard 'em on purpose because you came to our gym. You rarely talk to anybody, you rarely did anything.
You don't gotta hang out. They don't gotta be your best friends. But when you're on the mat, you could say hello, you can introduce yourself, you can chat. And this guy's response was, you know what? I didn't really like your gym that much anyway. I didn't know it was a requirement to be best friends with the other students in order to be part of your gym.
Which is not what I [01:40:00] said. And he is like, and you have too many cliques at your gym anyway, so no big deal. So I was like, man, this guy is gonna have problems. He's, this is gonna happen at every gym he goes to. So it's tricky. Sometimes you gotta let people go, man. It's gym culture is very fragile and if you mess it up, you can really mess your business up.
And I'm, I try to be really, really good about that. So yeah, you gotta let people go, man. You got, you gotta take out the trash sometimes.
Riley: I think that's an interesting subject, man. 'cause you know, the, the term is gym cancer, right? If you let a, a 
Tim Freeman: Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.
Riley: And, but that's, that's any business, man. I, in my, uh, I have a, I 
Tim Freeman: Yeah.
Riley: if you know this, but I have another company that's a mobile oil change, that I own.
And, and I have four written rules in that company that my employees know that if a customer violates one of those four rules more than once, they don't get to be our customer anymore. We cut 
Tim Freeman: Yeah,
Riley: there's a. [01:41:00] think every business needs that, man. I think that's part 
Tim Freeman: yeah, 
Riley: being wise. 
Tim Freeman: yeah.
Riley: dude, you've dropped some just wisdom bombs here, man. I'm just, I'm loving this. Uh, um, I've got some lighter questions if you don't mind switching gears real quick and 
Tim Freeman: Oh yeah. Anything you want, man? I'm down to talk about anything.
Riley: awesome man, Tim, this is called the Go Go in your SALT podcast. And when You hear the term go in your salt, what does that mean to you?
Tim Freeman: You know, it means a couple of things. One is I love salt electrolytes. Gotta give you a big, big ups for that. Big props. Uh, the, the lime flavor is my absolute favorite. Uh, and I did take one of those, uh, I raw dogged it one time on the air, I think for CJI, I remember I just downed that thing. Oh. And I was like, wow.
I didn't know it was gonna be like that strong, raw, but I'm like, I'm not gonna cough. I'm going to eat it. 'cause I'm like, mm, salt electrolytes. [01:42:00] That was a, that was fun. But go earn your salt to me means like, you gotta pull your weight. You got to, you have to, you have to earn your keep. You have to show your worth.
And if you're, you're part of a team, you gotta add value. And maybe you can't add value in the beginning. You don't know exactly what to do. Then do easy stuff. Do nice stuff. Hey man, I'll clean the mats. Hey dude, let me help you with this. Oh, you guys, let me set that table up. Oh, you just find a way to be helpful.
Now, some people view it as a pure business relationship. I'm a customer. You're a business. When I come here, I pay you for Juujitsu. I'm not cleaning your mats, I'm not taking out your garbage, I'm not doing this. I'm not, and that's okay. I don't expect you to do it. But you're learning a martial art. And if you're gonna be a martial artist, then you have to kind of be part [01:43:00] of that team.
That's not me just saying you gotta take out garbage. It's me saying, if you really want this to grow, you have to add value. And right now you don't know anything about jiujitsu. So there's no val, you're not gonna come in here and add value. You're not gonna show me a new wrinkle on the Oma Plata that's gonna change anything.
But you got two legs and two arms and like, Hey, on Saturday we're gonna move these mats. You show up and help. That'd be tremendous. You know, like stuff like that. Uh, that's earning your salt in in one way. And also just being consistent. Like one thing I found about the Juujitsu crowd, there's a lot of tough guys.
And you know, when I started a lot of those guys in that room, they were not welcoming. They were not customer friendly. They were not like, oh, we're so glad you're here. They were more kind of like, we're gonna see if you're gonna stick this out. Like we're not changing anything we do for you. In fact, we might even be a little harder [01:44:00] on the days you're here 'cause we want you to.
Prove that you're, you actually belong in, belong with us. And in that time, juujitsu was like still more secretive. It was harder to find, there's less people training. There's no Instagram, no Craig Jones, no Gordon Ryan, no U-F-C-B-J-J. Like it was way harder to find. And, you know, you wanted to be accepted by a team.
You wanted to be on the team. So it wa it was a lot, a lot harder then. And, and I, I think it's important for people to show up and, and put the consistent work in. And even those guys in the beginning that don't give you much respect and they don't spend much time with you and they kind of look at you, you know, with a wrinkled face it, you could be really crappy at jujitsu and still not good.
But if you keep showing up, they will respect you. 'cause they realize, they, everyone knows how hard it is to show up and put the work in and get smashed. Like, everybody knows how hard that is. And if you go through [01:45:00] that, you will get respect. So that's, that's for me specifically when I think about jiujitsu, I, I, that's what I think about when I hear go earn your salt.
Riley: Yeah. Good stuff, man. what's your favorite pastime outside of jujitsu? What's your favorite pastime? 
Tim Freeman: Uh, I would say, you know, my favorite pastime, a couple if we're, if we're talking. Sports just because you said bass time. I really loved baseball growing up I was a big baseball fan and you know, I watched the Giants win the World Series three years, three times in the 2010s. And we were diehard Giants fans.
And then after that, you know, I was kind of like, I'm not gonna watch sports. Uh, and I kind of retired from it, but this year I kind of got more back into it a little bit and I'm kind of rediscovering like the joy of like watching baseball, how much I did appreciate it and like did, 'cause [01:46:00] I, I played it a lot growing up and that it's baseball's one of those games where if you played it, you know, you're more likely to watch it 'cause you kind of understand the drama of the game and how it's kind of unfolding.
But it can be really boring for people to watch baseball. It's like, what is this? This is boring. Um, but I really do love baseball. The other thing I really, really love to do outside of Juujitsu is I like to cook quite a bit. Um, I'm not super great at it, but I do really enjoy cooking. There's something, you know, art is, is, comes in a lot of different forms.
So like if you know somebody, Leonardo da Vinci paints the Mona Lisa, right? And it's awesome. People want to go see it and they wanna stand in front of it and they're in awe of it. Now you could paint the Mona Lisa, you could paint a replica and it could be exact. If you hang it up on your wall and people walk by and they see ri written on it, instead of the, they're not gonna look at it at all.
Like, they look at the Mona Lisa, they're just gonna be like, oh, you [01:47:00] copied somebody else's thing. Now if you pull out a guitar and you play some, you know, Dave Mustang mega Death riff, people are gonna go like, oh my God. 'cause it's a performance they're watching. You do it as you do. It's like, wow, that's amazing.
So that's kind of art that's like a little more consumable. People like, they, they're okay with copying it. Food is like the ultimate one where everyone's okay with copying it. Like you could steal any recipe and they don't go, well, Wolfgang Puck didn't make this. You could steal his recipe. And if it tastes good when they eat it, they're gonna go like, oh my God, this is the greatest thing I ever, this is so good.
Oh, that, oh man, that what? That steak that, that, that chicken that, oh, that was so good. They never go, like, you copied that. I saw Gordon Ramsey made that. You, you copied his recipe. Food's not like that. And I really like that about food. I think it's kind of neat and it sustains your life on a very fundamental [01:48:00] level, right?
Like, you're actually, you need to eat. So you're taking this in. But it's also like a flavor profile. I'm kind of fascinated, like, you go eat something, you're like, man, that tastes so good. Then I think, what do I need to do at home to like replicate that taste? Like how do, and some things I can't. I'm like, I have no clue.
I don't know. I'm not trained. No concept man. And then other things I'm like, oh, I, I know how to do that. I figured that one out. I know how to do that one. And I'll look stuff up and try things. I'm not like super awesome and I don't want to be, so cooking is one thing I've purposely not bitten down on.
Like I cook, I, I do most of the cooking at home. I super enjoy it. I like to make meals, but I don't wanna be like, I'm studying cooking. 'cause I think I might ruin it if I do that. I think I might turn into like, oh no, I gotta do this and I gotta, I gotta, and then it's like, I don't wanna take the joy out of it 'cause I know how I am.
So, uh, that's, that's one of my, my favorite, uh, other things to [01:49:00] do. I really like that. Yeah.
Riley: What is, uh, what's something Quirky. about you that people don't know?
Tim Freeman: Quirky. Um, well I kind of shared that I was homeschooled. That was odd. Um, I, um, you know, I do all this podcast stuff, uh, totally just. Made it up on the fly, like literally just started doing it. I had no business doing it at all. Um, it was just an idea that I ran with and I just happened to be one of the people doing it.
Um, and I was willing to keep doing it. Um, quirky. Let's see. Uh, I'm kind of musically inclined. I could play the piano, I can play the drums. I'm pretty artistic. I can draw pretty well. I, I think I have a creative side that most people when they see [01:50:00] me, so I think this, this is what I've been told, I tend to look much more serious and more like, than I actually am in real life.
Like, I have had several people tell me when I met you or like saw you and like, kind of like, I just thought like you were quiet and you're serious and you don't like, and then now that I know you, you're fucking nuts and you're a crazy person. You know, like, and it's so much fun. Um, I think that's kind of something that people discover about me after they get, they get to know me.
You know, I'm a little bit guarded and reserved around people I don't know very well. Um, but once I, you know, warm up, I'm pretty, I'm pretty out there.
Riley: It's funny you say that because I, I never got that impression about you that, um, I, I always, and maybe it's 'cause I listened to your podcast prior right? 
Tim Freeman: Yeah.
Riley: I'd hear you cutting up on there and you just being silly and, and cracking jokes all the time. And it was, I I didn't ever see the serious side [01:51:00] of you, so I, 
Tim Freeman: Yeah, 
Riley: that, that is something I wouldn't 
Tim Freeman: it is funny, right? Yeah. I think like people I work professionally with, um, even like, uh, some of the parents, uh, that whose kids wrestled with my son when his first couple years of wrestling meets, I would go and like, I wouldn't even hardly talk to anybody. I don't, I don't know why. I just, my wife is a social butterfly.
My wife is, she knows everybody everywhere, everything, all the time. She loves to talk to people, she loves to socialize, she loves going out. And I'm kind of like, eh, I kind of like it, but I'd rather like hang out with two people and have a really great conversation than like talk to 20 people in a big room.
Um, but some of those parents, they're, they're like, damn, like we had no idea. You were fun to hang out with. And then it kind of bums me out. I'm like, Aw, you guys, everyone thinks I'm like a killjoy, but yeah.
Riley: funny. Tim, what, what would be some advice [01:52:00] you would give your younger self? 
Tim Freeman: Um, to only eat your own shit sandwiches, don't eat anybody else's. You have to eat yours. You gotta eat it every day. 'cause they're gonna stack up and you got to eat 'em anyway. Don't eat other people's. And that was a, a problem that I had. I, I, and I think I still carry people's emotional baggage a little bit, especially the people that I care about a lot.
I tend to try to process their feelings, which is kind of lame, you know? But I, I think I do it from a place of concern, uh, for people. And, and you know, I've come to realize over time that that's not the way that I can help these people like that I can, I can do better by not doing that and still help, right?
Use the, use my energy and my resources to [01:53:00] help in a more constructive way. And I think it's just a default. Now. Some people need to do that. Some people need to spend time thinking about the way other people feel, and it's, it's like really positive and valuable for them. 'cause they're, they're maniacs, you know?
Um, but I've come to kind of figure out over time, like, you know, I, I do care about people. I don't, I, I really try to come out with win-wins for people. And, and I do like to see people grow. I really love having somebody come up to me and go like, Hey, I want to be a coach. And then, you know what I tell people, oh, you wanna be a coach?
Start coaching. Like start coaching, like come to class and like start helping show up when, when should I, that's like, they want me to give 'em a schedule and times. It's like, just show up when you're here. Or they'll go like, Hey, I wanna do videography. Like, would you care? Yeah, man, come with your camera.
Next class, do videography. You know, like, do it. That's what I just do it. And then the, the, the people that do it, then I like to try to help those [01:54:00] people and, and push them in the right direction. Like I, I really do have a heart to help, but, you know, I, I, I gotta be better at not taking on their, their baggage.
I, I could have did a much better job when I was younger. I had a hard time having difficult conversations with people when I was younger. Just I felt like I would put things off and until it was like, oh, I have to do this. Like, it's overflowing and then there would be too much emotion or anger or angst in the communication.
And it wasn't an emotionally intelligent way to handle the conversation. And what happens, you end up like severing relationships or, or damaging them in a way that they can't be fixed. And then you're like processing that. And I'm like, oh, should I reach out to this person? Maybe I should just blah, blah, blah.
What should I do? What should I do? And it, it, it's like, no dude, you should not do any of that in the first place. And like, take a step back and think about what the right way is to handle this. [01:55:00] And, and, and when you're thinking about what somebody else is feeling. It's helpful if you're thinking about that in terms of how am I gonna communicate something to this person that could help them.
So let me put myself in their mindset and think, what, how would I feel? Like, how would I want to hear this message? Right? That's beneficial. But if it's just like, oh man, I feel so bad. This guy's suffering. He's suffering. Oh man, he's feeling bad. Like, oh god, that sucks so bad. I'm, and, and you're like, you're wearing it.
That's not helpful. That doesn't help that person. That person has no less of a burden now because you're processing it in parallel with this person who doesn't even know you're doing that. It's all like, work for nothing, you know? So that would be probably my, my main advice to my former self. I could have saved a lot of heartache, 
Riley: That's, I mean, that's good stuff, man. Uh, that, um, kind of goes back to what we [01:56:00] were talking about before. You know, sometimes we just wanna be nice and so.
we get all, you know, 
Tim Freeman: Yeah.
Riley: about how the other person feels. But when you have to strategize a way to communicate a thought that's gonna be beneficial, then, but it's gonna sting when you say it. 
Tim Freeman: Yeah,
Riley: that's, that's a challenge. But you have to do it, man. Sometimes. Sometimes you're the messenger. 
Tim Freeman: yeah, yeah. And you know, that comes with the role of being like, I wanna own this gym, or I wanna have this business. And like, okay, you're the boss now you gotta do boss stuff. And boss stuff is like. Yeah, people think boss stuff is like making the money, doing the flex. You know, like, yeah, look at me. Number one, it's not, that's not boss stuff.
Boss stuff is like having the really hard conversation with somebody that you care about or cutting somebody loose or deciding, you know, this thing that you pursued that maybe you spent a bunch of money on this project is not gonna succeed and it was a mistake and you gotta own it. Or somebody that's [01:57:00] working for you has royally messed up and you have to own it.
'cause at the end of the day, it's your name's on the piece of paper, not theirs, you know, so that's boss stuff, which, that's, that's hard, dude. Like, that's rough.
Riley: that's boss stuff, man. If you think it's easy, go try it. Yeah. 
Tim Freeman: Yeah. 
Riley: Um, 
Tim Freeman: No, 
Riley: an item on 
Tim Freeman: no kidding. Bucket list. So there's a, there's a couple things i, I want to do. I, I, I really want to travel and check out some of the ancient sites that I've seen so much about on television. Uh, I would really like to go to Machu Picchu. That's something that has been, um, kind of on my list of things to do.
I know it's pretty hard to get to and it's not like super fun resort traveling, but it is something I, I would definitely like to, uh, check out someday. Um, other bucket list things. One of the things I've. [01:58:00] And my wife and I have talked about this, I would really like to move, um, to another country for like six months, nine months and just go live somewhere.
Like I'm really looking at Italy 'cause I love Italy and I love Italians and it's just a great, it's like being in Italy is like being in a Wes Anderson movie. Like you've literally stepped out of real life and you're like in, in a movie. But, uh, one of my bucket list things there is to find somebody there who wants to start a 10th Planet gym and work out some kind of trade where I can go out there and live out there for six months and my wife can go with me and I could help this person start a gym and live in another country for a while.
And just kind of have that experience and see what it's about and like, kind of get my feet wet and help somebody at the same time who can also help me. So that's, that's the other thing kind of on my, my bucket list that I'm, I'm looking at in my [01:59:00] fifties, I, I look at I've, and I don't know why I do maybe 'cause I just, you know, nobody taught me, I just did it.
But I always looked at my life in decades, so it was like 20 to 30. My goal was like, I gotta finish college. You know, my wife and I have known each other since we were kids. We started dating when we were teenagers and we dated all through college. We lived in different towns and, you know, we finished school.
But, you know, we were in our early twenties, but my goal like in my twenties was finish school, get married, start a career, you know, like get a house. Those were my big, like I gotta try to get these things in. These are my goals. Like I, I really would like to do this. And then somewhere in that time I picked up Juujitsu towards the end of it.
And then in my thirties I was like, man, I would really like to like at least finish the black belt at some point. And at a certain point in there I was like, I want to open up a school. And so there were [02:00:00] some things that like, kind of made sense to me. I got an advanced security certification in technology.
There was like some big things that I wanted to do and I, and I did those. And in my forties I wasn't sure exactly what I wanted to do, to be honest with you. 'cause I'm like, I'm gonna run this school and I'm gonna quit my job. And, and I did that, but then it kind of like got choked back. And so then I've been like, Hey, I just got to one.
Once we set our sights on Nashville, everything became, how do I get my family and all my stuff from Stockton to Nashville. And my wife was a teacher for 20 years. She quit her job. Um, she decided she didn't want to teach anymore after, when we moved out here, she's like, I don't want to go into teaching. I wanna do something different.
So she changed her career. She went back into the business world. And when we moved, she didn't have a job. And when we moved, I was contracting and then my, the company I contracted with offered me a full-time position. I'm like, I gotta take it 'cause I [02:01:00] don't know what the heck's gonna happen. And we need money.
So I took that job and I opened a school and our kids moved out here and we had to sell our house and find a place to live and opened the gym. It was like a lot of wildness that I'm really glad I went through. 'cause I, I proved to myself that one is like, I can orchestrate something like this, I can plan it, I can analyze it, I could see it through and I could succeed.
And we did it and we did the whole thing and we did it. And I look back, I'm, and I'm proud of that. 'cause this is a lot of moving pieces. It was not easy, man. There was a lot of pain in that sacrifice. Um, but you know, that's kind of been like most of what I've been doing in my forties and, and kind of running like the juujitsu media stuff.
I've never been trying to like get rich on that. It's, that was never the goal is just like, I just love doing it and I want to grow it and keep doing it and then see what happens. Um, but in my fifties, definitely I've thought like, I need to make a trip out of the country, live somewhere for a while just to like see what it's [02:02:00] like.
Maybe I'll go live in Machu Picchu. Imagine that. Go live the, yeah. Where's that? Like in Peru? Yeah. I'm sure it would go over well.
Riley: what's the, your favorite book you've ever read? Something you think everyone else should read? 
Tim Freeman: Uh, so I got. A lot of books, uh, two books that, I'll give you three books, I'm sorry. It's that guy. Uh, unlimited Power was a life-changing book for me. It was very, very useful because I had never come across that kind of information. Like, Hey, you can change the way you think about things. You can adapt a positive mindset.
You can visualize how you want things to go. It's not a promise, but it is a, it's like you have good brain hygiene, you're cleaning up in the brain, and you know that if that's right, and if you're focused on the right stuff, you tend to gravitate to those things. So [02:03:00] that was like really helpful for me, uh, as a, as a teenager growing up.
Um, and as an adult too, I've always kind of gone back to that stuff. The other book that, uh, I really, really enjoyed is a book by CS Lewis. Um, and he, you know, is the classic writer of, uh, the Lion, the Witch, and the Wardrobe and, and all that stuff. Narnia and all, all the great, 
Riley: got that 
Tim Freeman: brilliant, 
Riley: right here. Right 
Tim Freeman: writer.
His, my favorite book that he wrote is a book called Mere Christianity. 
Riley: Oh yeah. 
Tim Freeman: Um, and it is a, a very, very, whether you are a Christian or not, I still feel like it is a very, very good book for people to read. It's not a hard read, and it's a book that was written during World War ii and, you know, things were under particular circumstances at the time.
And CS Lewis does [02:04:00] a really, really good job of laying out the case for trying to be a better person. And of course, you know, he, he believed it was through Christianity, but he uses that, he's a Christian apologist, so he, he, he tries to use natural, you know, thought and rationale to prove to you that this is correct without going.
The Bible says, 'cause I grew up like that. The Bible says, well, people that don't believe in that, they're not gonna believe in the Bible. The Bible's like a fictitious book in their brain. Um, but that was a really helpful book. It was just a, a positive book and it kind of like, it elevated my thought process.
So that was something that was really important for me. And then the other book, um, that I really love, I really love John Steinbeck as a fictional writer. And, you know, of [02:05:00] course, Steinbeck wrote some real classics of, of Mice and Men. Um. What was the, uh, uh, the real popular Dust Bowl one? I can't remember.
I don't remember it, but, um, 
Riley: Grapes 
Tim Freeman: dropped a 
Riley: it that one? 
Tim Freeman: Grapes of Wrath. Yeah, grapes of Wrath. He wrote some real brilliant stuff, but my favorite book that he wrote is called The Winter of Our Discontent, and it's about a character named Ethan Allen Holly, who gets in a tight situation and decides he's gonna rob a, a store, uh, to get out of the situation.
And it was just a really brilliant book that kind of, you know, fiction sometimes gets, like, there's so much crap fiction out there that it's real easy to, like, fiction is terrible. I don't read fiction, I only read nonfiction. I don't wanna read fiction. But the really great writers have a way of getting an underlying point across to you through the story and through the characters, but in a way that is realistic, that paints [02:06:00] people not as like, this guy's good, this guy's bad, but like, shows the duality in our humanity in, you know, there's a lot of people that want to be good that, that do bad things sometimes, which sucks, right?
And there's a lot of people that, you know, propose to be good and they look like they're good, but they're actually doing bad things a lot of the time. So that, you know, just seeing that duality and that that decision making process of, I'm in a jam and there's a way out, and the way out is like, not the right way out, but it's a way out.
Uh, and I'm tempted to take it and that whole process of like, what happens if you do and what happens if you don't. So that was a really great book that I, 
Riley: Yeah, I am gonna 
Tim Freeman: enjoyed. 
Riley: one out. I haven't read that 
Tim Freeman: Yeah, 
Riley: other two. But 
Tim Freeman: it's a good one. 
Riley: Steinbeck books you mentioned, the Grapes Wrath and the Of Mice and 
Tim Freeman: Yeah, I love those books,
Riley: Oh my gosh. Tim, uh, what's next dude? What are, what are you gonna do from [02:07:00] here? 
Tim Freeman: you know, I'm gonna keep rocking, that's for sure. I'm not, I'm, I'm consistent. I'll show up a hundred percent. Um, you know, we got the bullpen we're doing RAF Spar and I are banging that out generally every Friday. You know, we do the official pre-show for the PGF. We got the next season's coming up, uh, at the end of March here.
I'm pretty excited about that. And then I have a concept and I've talked to you about it. I haven't shared it like publicly, but I have a concept that I've been working on thinking about, and it's one of those things where I'm like, I'm pretty sure I'm gonna bite down on it. I'm just like getting ready to bite down on it, and I'm going like, okay, I know what it means when I bite down on it, so I'm gonna have to have all my ducks in a line.
Everything lined up. So yeah, that's, that got got a project coming up next, maybe around the New Year's. That's kind of what, like, that's the idea floating around in my head. So, 
Riley: Can't wait to 
Tim Freeman: yeah, man, 
Riley: I'm excited to see it.
Tim Freeman: I'm excited too. 
Riley: can, where can you be found? [02:08:00] 
Tim Freeman: You can find me social media inside bjj. You could go to inside bjj.com. You know, the podcast is on Spotify.
Uh, if you wanna listen to the bullpen, you could go to the grappling hour on YouTube. Inside BJJ has 'em. Also on YouTube, we have an Instagram called Bullpen Live that, uh, has quite a few clips and stuff we're doing on there. So I'm really proud of that show. Uh, it, you know, we do a good job. We put that together and it's literally just, RAF and I banging it out week after week.
And, uh, people don't really see the amount of work that goes into a show. It not that like a podcast is not a show, but there is a difference between a show where you're like, this is a show. It has an opening, it has a this, it has a segment. It's running like a show versus like, this is a conversation.
They're both different kinds of challenges. A conversation forces you to do research, to be prepared, to like, kind of be thoughtful, you know, like, kind of like, okay, okay, [02:09:00] just like you've done today. Whereas a show is like, you gotta be prepared, but you also have to be entertaining. You know, you have to say something that's gonna make some somebody laugh, something that's gonna provoke somebody.
You know, we do a lot of little things in the bullpen that are weird, just little entertainment things that sometimes I feel like we're doing just for each other. Where it's like raffle sand and go like, dude, I saw that graphic you made. I can't believe you put a reference to this in it. I'm like, oh, it's so good, huh.
You know, and you know, I, I think some people catch that stuff and appreciate it, but I, I really get a kick outta doing that. So you could check us out on the bullpen live.
Riley: Yeah, I get a kick out of, you know, I catch your clips. You guys do a lot. And I, I watch that and I go, man, I don't know how in the heck you guys keep up with so much of what's going on in the, in the 
Tim Freeman: It's crazy. 
Riley: It's, uh, 
Tim Freeman: Yeah.
Riley: some of it's hilarious. 'cause you guys just, I think you work good together where you just, you're, you're constantly, of the back and forth is really genuine.
You know, you can tell 
Tim Freeman: Yeah. 
Riley: would do this if [02:10:00] it was just the two of you sitting in the living room 
Tim Freeman: yeah. We were doing it. Yeah. We were two of the only guys covering it back in the day, so 
Riley: Yeah. Well, that's awesome man. Well, listen, Tim, I appreciate you coming on, 
Tim Freeman: Yeah.
Yeah.
It was a pleasure man. Thank you so much. Anytime.
Alright brother. You too. Thanks [02:11:00] Ri