Pastor Adam Cooke- November 19, 2025 (EDIT)
Adam Cooke: [00:00:00] And so this idea of go earn your salt in my mind is lead yourself well. So pain doesn't have to, you know, , I want to pursue health, not out of need in crisis, but out of, vision and,
want, and so when I hear go in your salt, it's like, let's just get to work. ,
Riley: Today I've got my friend and my pastor Adam Cook on here. Uh, we are, Adam on here today because in the leadership world, in the, in the achiever world that [00:01:00] we, podcast is, is, uh, built around an example of, of a good leader. And, and, uh, so I brought, I brought him in here today to talk about some things that he deals with, maybe from a pastor perspective, maybe from a, that's a little different than, than leadership in other areas. Um, he's got a very unique perspective. Adam, welcome to the show, man.
Adam Cooke: I am honored and grateful to be a part of this, so thank you for inviting me.
Riley: Well, tell us who you are, where you came from, what was life like as a kid?
Adam Cooke: Yeah. Uh, quick story, you know, raised in Michigan, outside of Detroit, you know, I was born there, but then our family moved us outside of Detroit 'cause of just the city. All the things that were happening there. Just, it wasn't safe, predominantly a white community. Um, where we moved to, and I'm, I'm mixed, so I'm a mutt, you know, I, I've got, my mom is African [00:02:00] American, native American, and my dad is pure English, like from England, cook with an E.
Um, we actually have found that we were probably related to Captain Cook, who basically founded, um, parts of Australia for those British people. And so, yeah, just kind of grew up in a home where there was color and different ideas of culture and learned to embrace all of that and had an incredible dad.
My dad died when I was 16, but. My dad could beat up your dad type of thing. You know, just a, a wonderful man taught us what it meant to, to be strong, what it meant to be kind. Um, and my mom, you know, she's still with us and she is the strongest woman that I know grew up during the Civil Rights movement and would always tell us as kids, um, you're never a victim of your circumstance.
And so that's kind of why we always say, my mom's like the strongest woman we know, because she was [00:03:00] just a person who exuded that and anything that life threw her way, she always seemed to rise above and overcome it. And so those are some things that I picked up from my mom, learned from my mom, and things that I've learned from my dad, which is just, you know, um, the pursuit of just being a good man, um, a good friend, a good husband, a good dad, you know?
So that's like a little bit of my story, um, growing up and, you know, uh, I met my wife when I was. You can tell if I'm boring you, you know, if I'm talking too much here. I dunno. I, my wife, I met her when I was 19. We were both in college and we met at the church and, uh, I knew right away, well I guess within three months I knew that this, she was the one, you know, like I just knew, you know how, you know, things in your knower.
I just knew. But I was getting ready to do this internship where they didn't allow dating because I felt the call to ministry [00:04:00] after a year of being in college. And I chose to do the program telling her, you know, we knew we were supposed to be married, like we just knew. And I said, this fall, I'm starting this thing and we're not gonna be able to be together.
And so I'm praying that you stick around, but I know the Lord's calling me to do this. Like I've got to just dedicate the next year of my life to his word, um, to study, uh, to education, um, because I feel a call to ministry. And so she honored that and we both went our separate ways. And then after that year, uh, came back together and got engaged and then got married.
And then, you know, we've been married almost 24 years, four kids later, oldest 19, 18, almost 17, and then a 7-year-old. And so, um, I always like to say the rest is history, just learning to do life together and, uh, love each other and, [00:05:00] and, uh, something that I've learned Ry too. I just, I,
I've always just wanted to be. A good dad and a good friend. And so that's kinda like my core motivation. So whether it was in ministry or just with Brooke, um, my wife, or just with my kiddos, I just want to, it's like, I wanna be a good dad here. I wanna be a good friend to Brooke, you know? And so we don't have a perfect marriage, but we have an honest one.
And so, um, it's kind of been our pursuit is let's just have an honest marriage. And I feel like those other things work themselves out. But yeah, that's kind of a, like a quick rendition of my story.
Riley: Adam, when you say honest marriage, define that for me.
Adam Cooke: Yeah, I think living authentic, um, living true, being vulnerable with how you feel, what you think about, [00:06:00] um, uh, being vulnerable with the things that may cost you, uh. Uh, that may cost you like harmony in your marriage, like just being vulnerable with those things. And I feel like now it took us time to get to that place of making that a core value because prior to that, I think all of us try to, um, fix our behavior towards one another when it's like, I really genuinely wanna be connected to you, Brooke.
And so the best way to do that is not to pretend that I'm great, but to just be authentic when I'm great and when I'm not great. And so I guess that's how I would define honest is just this is me when I'm not great and this is me when I am great. And um, so when you sense things, this is probably why you sense these things and vice versa, you know?
So maybe that's a long definition, but
I'm sticking to it.
Riley: No, [00:07:00] that question. Just we, we have written core values in my household, and it dictates kind of how we make decisions, but one of those is genuine faith, right? We, and, and what we mean by that is, is. Kind of a similar thing. And that's what I was kind of picking up on, is that we're just not faking stuff.
If, if we're not gonna put on a happy face just because that's the thing to do, we're not gonna say yes to things just 'cause that's what the thing is to do. It's, we're not going to, our faith is gonna be genuine. It's gonna be who we are. It's gonna be a reflection of, of what the Lord made us to be. And when stuff comes in from outside, we can reflect back on that and go, you know, is this a genuine faith decision on our part or is it, or are we just trying to please someone else?
You
Adam Cooke: Yeah, it's good.
Riley: it's a of
Adam Cooke: Yeah,
Riley: sounding thing
Adam Cooke: It's very good. Yeah.
Riley: you mentioned in your, uh, that your mom [00:08:00] up in the civil rights era It would tell you guys that you're not a victim of your certain circumstances. Speak to that a little bit. 'cause I that man that, that is a, just such a winter mentality. It's like there can be some garbage going on around you that's, that's difficult, but you're, you can't just sit there in that victim mentality.
Will you talk about that a bit in.
Adam Cooke: Yeah, I mean, you know, if you met my mom, one, she's very chill, very relaxed, and when she gets fired up, you know, she has a lot of stories and rightly so, you know, she's 75. But also she has a lot of stories of overcoming, um, things that she had no control over. You know, it's one thing to be a victim of your own circumstance because you created the mess, but it's another thing to be a teenager during the Civil Rights movement, um, and be told.
'cause of law that you can't do things, you know? And um, [00:09:00] and so I feel like, you know, growing up in a home with a mom like that, you almost felt this sense of, you know, my problem seems so, uh, not important because you had to go through the civil rights movement and I'm complaining about, you know, um, somebody took my backpack and I couldn't do my homework, or, you know what I mean?
And so what did you want me to do, mom? You know, it's just kinda like, yeah, let me tell you about freedom and let me tell you about not having freedom and what I had to do. And, um. My mom has stories about just even picking cotton. So she grew up on a plantation in the south and they had their own house, the whole family, and she's one of nine children, so a lot of kiddos, and they all worked there on that farm.
And she tells us stories about how the people who own, own the farm were very good people, but they [00:10:00] still felt, um, limited because of clearly, you know, the, the era and that timeframe. Um, and it wasn't until they moved out of the south and moved up north to Michigan that um, they started to see the difference between growing.
On a farm under someone else's rule and reign and then kind of starting your own thing. So she kind of has those pers that perspective, both perspectives. And so my mom was a very hard mom, uh, growing up when we were children and expected us to, um, overcome our feelings often. And, you know, to some degree I think there's some, there's some detrimental things to that.
But in my case, a lot of, um, powerful things of helping me see beyond my feelings dictating the rest of my life, you know? So, yeah, I mean. I think all of us, uh, in my family have [00:11:00] experienced, um, prejudice. Um, I know, I mean, we've talked about and shared stories, um, my siblings and myself, but you know, it doesn't change our perspective of humanity, you know, because my mom and dad being people of faith would remind us that all prejudice is just another avenue of sin and we can forgive it.
And so that was I think, what my mom, and as you asked me that question at the beginning, I think I say all that to say something that my mom was really good at and enforcing into our lives to help us be overcomers and not victims was forgive a lot, just forgive a lot. And, um, I feel like when you do that, you don't blame a lot, you know?
So there's no room for blame. There's no room for me to project things, um, on others. I just take responsibility if I'm forgiving a lot. And so. Yeah.
Riley: Do you guys ever have [00:12:00] discussions? You know, 'cause we, I think about this in my own life, right? Um, when, when somebody comes at you with an attitude or with a prejudice or with a bully or whatever it happens to be, to not, then take that on yourself and become that thing that's, a problem. Did you guys deal with that much?
Adam Cooke: Yeah. I, I think, you know, you know, ri you know, I'm, I'm a, I'm, I'm like a hopeless romantic, so I feel a lot of things, um, you know, probably in my relationship with my wife, I'm the one that can tend to be a little more emotional or, you know, more excited about date nights. And, um, just being with my wife, you know, it's just she tells me often, Adam, you're a little emotional right now, so it's, it's a good, uh, litmus test.
My wife is like the fourth person in the. Trinity. So, you know, I listen to her often, but, uh, um, [00:13:00] yeah, I think I feel it when names were called or when things were done to me, um, because of specifically like the color of my skin growing up, we, we experienced a lot of it moving to a predominantly white community.
I mean, I rode the bus to school and kids were pretty mean. Um. And I don't know how into this, you want me to get, it's things that I, Riley that I don't talk a lot about, I've talked with my kids about, but you know, I heard the N word often I was, kids would spit on me, pull my hair, push me to the, to the ground.
I hated going on the bus. And finally I had the courage to tell my dad like, these are the things that are happening on the bus. Like I, 'cause I felt like I'm doing something wrong, but I don't know. And even at that time, I saw all people as a kid, when you're seven, it was from like the time I was like seven to nine, that I started noticing, oh, this is a problem and I'm different than [00:14:00] everybody else.
I didn't think I was different. And honestly, in the town that I grew up in, we were. There was only two black families in this like town, and we were one of them, you know, and there was still, it was just outside of where, this is gonna blow your mind. This, it was the, the city I grew up in was just outside of this place in Michigan.
You can look this up, kata, which was the head dragon of the Ku Klux Klan. So a lot of just, um,
rednecks and uh, um, not the good ones, you know. And so even as a kid, um, you know, it wasn't until that air, that timeframe of seven to nine years old that I started to realize like, I don't wanna get on the bus. People don't like me because of the color of my skin. I didn't know that I was, I just thought.
I didn't know I was a different color, which is so bizarre. Um, [00:15:00] because my parents, I mean, I'm growing up in, in church and faith and, um, you know, constantly just, you forgive people, there's six of us siblings, so you get a lot of practice forgiving one another. Um, and then when I realized all those things and was experiencing all those things and was feeling all those things, um, I remember the, the day I told my dad, I can remember it 'cause I'm, I was nervous for some reason to tell him that these things were happening to me.
And I remember my dad at first was like, is is this really happening? Adam? Like, almost like, I heard this somewhere, or I watched it on a movie or something and I, I said, dad, I don't want to get on the bus tomorrow. And he said to me, you don't have to. And um, I don't remember. He said, I'll take care of this.
And he said, I need you to remember. That when people say things and do things, they do it because they're afraid. [00:16:00] And so I, that marked me in such a way at that, at a young age, that as I got older and experienced prejudism or even people in my face about my leadership or anything, I've learned that it's just people who are afraid.
You know? Like they're just fearful and you fear what you don't know, and so you lash out and this is how you respond when you're afraid because all of us respond to fear differently. Some of us co or isolate, some of us get angry and, um, boisterous and loud and, and so, uh, I just remember that moment and I didn't get on the bus after that.
And we were done riding the bus and they somehow figured out how to get me to school driving and dropping me off. I don't remember what it was, but somehow that happened. So. I don't know if that answers your question, but I've learned not to feel it.
Riley: 'cause you, you, you brought up that your [00:17:00] mom said, you know, you're, you, um, she would encourage you to overcome your feelings. Right. know, and then you say like, you're a very feeling oriented person. And,
Adam Cooke: Yeah.
Riley: me of like, you know, I went to school, um, in junior high school, especially. It expanded, kind of the, the area where the students would come from. You know, our elementary school was basically our neighborhood, right? But our, junior high school was like this hole, end of town, the suburbs. And then there was a, a connecting Indian reservation, right? So the Shoshone Bock, uh, tribe out there was literally bordered my town.
Like, and, and so those kids would come into the junior high school also. And, and it was a weird thing because we had nicknames for them, just similar to the N word, but they also had 'em for us. And, but the odd thing was when I think back on it, like most of those guys were, we were all cool. It was all, we all hung out.
It was like every, [00:18:00] most of 'em were cool. There was a couple though, that stand out that were just jerks, man, you know? And they were just as racist as any of the white kids were. And, and it was like they, but again, when I look back, it's like most of 'em, we were all good, man. We were all friends. play football together, we would run around at lunchtime together, and we'd show each other, you know, we were junior high school students, so we always had the latest little gadget and we'd bring to school and show, you know, we'd just hang out. Everybody was cool. But there was, you know, those, those ones that are jerks stand out. Right. And I guess what I want to segue this into is, is how we relate that to other areas of life where the haters stand out for whatever reason, they tend to have undue influence in our world. And it, it sounds like that's kind of what your mom, and your dad was saying.
It's just like, man, you don't have to be a victim to that. You know, these, these, they're just haters. Don't disregard those ones.
Adam Cooke: Yeah,
Riley: I think what you're talking about, man, there's, there's so much wisdom in that and, [00:19:00] and I wanna meet your mother. I, I never have. And I, I hear she makes some wicked good pies and
I,
Adam Cooke: does. I can give you the, I can give you the secret ingredient. It's lots of sugar.
Riley: oh my gosh, I, uh, yeah. So I wanna meet her for that reason too. But it just sounds like you guys were given such wise advice and such big picture advice, right? There's these little things that are happening, but the big picture is. Is beautiful, but the, you know, there's always stinking, we call it flies in the ointment. There's always, there's always things that, that are undesirable in life, right?
So, so, you know, years later, you're 24 years into marriage, you've got four kiddos. You're raising them. Talk about raising kids now on, you know, 'cause they're gonna deal with some of this stuff too, right?
Adam Cooke: Yeah, yeah. No. Yeah. And they have, um, specifically, uh, Anabel and Micah have, I [00:20:00] don't think when you have mixed kids, people don't know. They're always mixed. And so, like, Ainsley looks like her mom and everybody thought Ainsley was a white kid, you know? 'cause all of my kids' skin pigment is different. And so Anabel and Micah have experienced some of the, the n word and racist comments and, um.
Statements and letters. And we've taught her the same thing to forgive, to pray for them. Um, and similar things that my parents have said, we've said to them, you know, and I realize like you ri you know that I think there are seasons raising my children that I thought I had to protect them, guard them, um, from the world and from society.
And it's almost like a let's go dig a bunker mentality with your kids. And we, we had to learn early [00:21:00] on in raising them when they were littles, um, that we're preparing them for the world not to hide from it. Like, I'm, yes, there's things I'm concerned about, right? But it's like, no, I, I, I'm raising them to infiltrate culture, not hide from it, to create culture, not.
Cow, you know, look away or turn away or, um, escape from it. And, um, cower, you know, like it's, that's what we had to start doing. And I feel like that's what we were intentional about is now how am I equipping my kids? It goes from how am I protecting my kids to how am I equipping my kids? And no doubt we protect and guard their eyes and we do the best we can while, um, like Jesus says, you know, that we are sheep being led to the slaughterhouse.
You know, like that's a great picture of the world we live in. We're preparing [00:22:00] them like this is a slaughterhouse man. And so you gotta be ready for it. And you gotta know that a lot of the reason why it is a slaughterhouse is because of the brokenness and the fear and the unknown. It all comes from the gaps in other people's hearts and in our own hearts, you know?
And so, um. I wasn't trying to raise good kids. I was, I was raising future warriors, future teachers, future influencers. So my job wasn't just to protect them, it was to prepare them. You know?
Riley: That's such an interesting thing. 'cause you're, you're talking about raising warriors. It. In order to do that. You know, I train, I train in the jut jujitsu world, right? But you cannot learn that without taking some bumps and bruises along the way. You know, you're
gonna,
Adam Cooke: It's very good.
Riley: spend a under pressure. That's life. Right? That's
Adam Cooke: Yeah.
Riley: a life analogy, man.
to get strong, in order to become a warrior, in order to get out there and [00:23:00] do something cool, uh, yeah, you're gonna take some bumps along the way and you've gotta learn how to, Simon, the other night, my youngest son, he was, he was grappling with a bigger kid, and the kid both Simon's arms up and slammed him down.
So Simon just ate the mat with his face first, right? And it rung his belt pretty good. And he told me in the car on the way home, he is like, man, I hit my head hard. And he said, I, I was pretty. They rung my bell and I kind of was disoriented a little bit and, uh, I said, well, did you quit fighting at that point?
And he says, just for a quick second, I thought about it. But then he kept going. And it was that analogy of, man, sometimes you just get punched in the face and it hurts,
but the
Adam Cooke: Yeah.
Riley: over, man. You just gotta keep
it was a beautiful picture of what you're talking about.
Adam Cooke: Yeah, a little punch to the face pile. Drive to the face. Think of nacho Libre. It's just,
Riley: Punch
to the
Adam Cooke: uh, yeah. Pile drive to the face. Yeah, it's great.[00:24:00]
It's good.
Riley: Adam, you're a pastor for your, your main career here and know, you've got a strong, healthy marriage. Pastors man get pulled in every different direction. Probably every leader does, but I think pastors in a different way because there's a. Just the dynamic of how it works, man. And what measures do you take to keep your marriage healthy?
Adam Cooke: Yeah, that's a great question. I, I, you know, I'm not a pk, so I didn't grow up in a pastor's home, so I always tell people I grew up in a normal Christian home, and I'd hear all these stories about, you know, pastor's kids, and. Pastor's wives and just their lifestyle. And, and so I think because of those stories, um, we purposed early on.
And I think also ri you know, I know we share similar, um, hearts and core motivation that it's like, [00:25:00] at the end of the day, my family's the most important thing. Yeah. Uh, you know, I say from the platform often that like I could have, uh, the thousand, the, the 12 to 1300 people that love me and respect me.
But if I don't have the respect and love of my wife, then I failed miserably. And, um, and so my, my home, my kids have to respect me before others and respect. Is earned, it's not given. And, and you earn it through relationship. And so we've had to fight for time with each other and it's a core motivation.
Like, we're gonna be with each other no matter what. Quality time is one of my love languages. And, um, and so I made it, if our core values read this, then let's live by those and not allow for our career or good things. You know this to be true. Like even good [00:26:00] things can become busy things and they're not the best things.
And so we, um, we did it by just practicing, um, relationship. Making time for it, uh, dating each other constantly and consistently. I would love to do it more. Um, again, I'm the hopeless romantic, you know, uh, it's never enough. Uh, so I feel like those are some core motivations. So because they, they were, we made time for it, so I feel like, you know, we just made time for it.
And, um, it, it feels like, you know, this is crazy. I, you know, we've known each other for quite some time, so much so that you guys, you know, Hudson is on your guys' Christmas card and a part of your guys' family, and he No, I, I know, and I, you know, Brooke and I have talked a ton about it, and you know, Lulu knows this, and I know you know this too, like if something ever happened to us, it's like, well, [00:27:00] I mean, even before my family, I'd want the Rogers to like, you know what I mean, take my kid, um, my little guy.
Um, and so I do appreciate that. But, uh. Where was I going with that? Oh, oh, you've known me for quite some time. I feel like the times that I would get busy doing even good things like ministry or serving people, I felt like there were a lot of, a lot more moments of me banging my head up against the wall and not really gaining any ground, but the moments that I would just rest steward my heart and my life and my family, um, and made time for it and almost feeling like I should be doing more.
You know, you, you can put in 80 hours in a week and because you love what you do, but also because it's in you and it's coming out of you and you're building something and you're kind of the guy, uh, you, you're the guy that started [00:28:00] the business. You're the entrepreneur. It, it, you care about it more than your employees do.
You can almost start to feel bad. When you're making time to serve your family, does that make sense? And I felt like there were seasons where when I was putting my family, and I praise God that it was only seasons, very short seasons, putting my family on the back burner that it felt so resistant and growth in every area seemed to slow.
But the moments that I was stewarding and making time and resting and doing things that mattered for my family, the church was growing exponentially. Like my hands were out of it more. And when every time my hands got into it more, I feel like I slowed things down. And it doesn't mean you're not working hard, it just simply means that the more that I trusted the Lord with that and then served my family, I felt like that.[00:29:00]
Increased. And so I feel like that made it easier for me to be like, oh yeah, I don't need to be involved in everything. Like I need to be home. And so you're probably looking for practicums and I, I guess I'm speaking in generalities, but I, that's one thing we do. We make time to sit at the dinner table and eat together often.
And so that was one of the things we always did. And that has still happened to this day. There's less of my kids at the dinner table 'cause they're working now in the evenings. But, um, we, yeah. Yeah, you're a pro at this, so I'm gonna make a podcast and ask Ri, how do you do this? So, so well, so,
yeah.
Riley: know, man.
uh. Setting aside time, being intentional, and, and it takes, first you have to recognize that there's a potential problem there, right? uh, you know, again, leaders we do tend to treat our business or our or whatever [00:30:00] happens to be as this like, super important entity.
And it, it's important, but man, if the rest of it crumbles, like you said, you're a failure. If your marriage crumbles in the middle of that, and
Adam Cooke: Yeah.
Riley: well, it's a biblical value too. It's, you know, it's a mandate that you take care of your, your own household first. Right?
Adam Cooke: Yeah.
[00:31:00]
Adam Cooke: Yeah.
Riley: leadership, Adam, this is a, you know, this is a giant subject.
You know, you Awaken Church in Nampa, Idaho as a pastor. There's, we all know that the Lord really leads his church. And so you're, you're, you're part of the package though, and you, you, I want you to talk about kind of what that looks like on a day-to-day basis. Um, church isn't all, we view church sometimes as, especially if we're just an attendee the service and the music and the, you know, the, the message and this kind of a thing.
But there's a, there's a business side to church. I want you to talk about that a little bit.
Adam Cooke: Great. Yeah. Uh, [00:32:00] yeah. Um, yeah, you know this so well. You know, leadership isn't a position. It's, it's, it's weighty, it's responsibility. It's, um, it's not having a platform. Uh, it's, you know, it's building, building something that matters. And, um, I think to like the average person, I've been asked like a. Or they've said to my wife, like, um, when she has mentioned different things of, yeah, it's a busy week, and, um, I gotta pick up Hudson.
And, and literally some people have said like, why? Well, couldn't your husband go do that? Like, doesn't he just work one day a week? And, uh,
Riley: Yeah.
Adam Cooke: like, and she's like, no, he doesn't work one day a week. Um, that would be awesome, but, um, don't, I just, don't you just make that stuff up when you get up there.
It's like, what? No. Um, you know, throughout the week you, you go to Bible college, they [00:33:00] teach you some practical things of how to study. Doctrine, liturgy, but they don't teach you how to run the business side of the church. And then when you are on staff and you're not maybe the lead pastor, those are some elements I wasn't taught even there, like your, your senior pastor kind of protects you from all of those things and board meetings and um, order and bylaws and, you know, all those different things.
And so I felt like I had to learn the hard way, but with a very small church, which made it easier, uh, to some degree. I didn't come into, um, a well-oiled machine. I came into something that was kind of closing its doors and so we kind of got to rebuild and start over again. And so, um, I came in because the order of my household.
Was influenced by Dave Ramsey, was influenced by Larry Briquette, was influenced by John Maxwell, was influenced [00:34:00] by, you know, um, bill Johnson and different people who value the order of their home that were in ministry or now have a, you know, a business like, um, who's the author of Blue Like Jazz. Um, I think we've talked about him.
Have you read Blue? Like Jazz? Um,
uh,
Riley: maybe it
was
Adam Cooke: his name if,
Riley: talked to me
um,
fairly
Adam Cooke: yeah, what is his name? Why am I, uh, I wanna keep saying Dallas. It's not Dallas. What's his name? Anyways, um, he's now like a consultant coach and I'm actually, I have to get his name, bro. I'll just find it. But these guys that were in ministry, that are in business, or were in business and now in ministry.
Because their, the order, the order of their home was so important. They actually did business well in the church. And when we first got here, um, there wasn't a benevolence fund. There wasn't a savings. There [00:35:00] wasn't like living paycheck, basically paycheck to paycheck. And I get it, it's a small church, but I was like, wait a minute, what do we do when there's rainy days?
What do we do when someone has a need? Um, what do we do when fill in the blank? You can't, there's an outstanding expense. Do we have an emergency fund? And so we treated it like that. We had that set up in our home because I had great leaders in my life and fathers and mothers in the faith that then when we got here, let's establish some of these things here at the church.
And so those things that I read in books and listened to friends and leaders in my life, we just took that same thing and started applying it to. The finances of the church. Um, the importance of having leadership meetings and inviting people into those spaces and being a student, um, in every environment, uh, being a son is what my dad calls it, being a son in every environment because you're always learning.
Um, because [00:36:00] the, he would always say the best sons are the best dads. And that comes out of the scripture where, you know, this is a side note, um, I'd love to teach on this one day. But, um, you know, in, in Hebrews, the Bible tells us that Jesus is the exact representation of the Father. And then Jesus even says in the four gospels, if you've seen me, you've seen the Father, you know, multiple times.
So it's, um, it's this beautiful picture because Jesus will always be called the Son of God. Great sons make great fathers. You know what I mean? Like it's that truth. And, um, you know, you've got great sons and so you can rest assured that they're gonna be great dads. And, um, I'm resting in that piece as well because I have great sons.
They're gonna be great dads. And that simple principle I feel like translates into leadership. Um, if I can be a student in every environment and learn from people like you, um, then I can [00:37:00] also apply those things that I've learned in the environment that I'm leading. And I feel like that's what we did.
And I feel like weekly, on a day-to-day basis, that's what we're doing from growing leaders to stewarding finances, um, uh, to stewarding finances in such a way in benevolence and, um, reaching the world globally and locally. Um, yeah, there's just a lot of responsibility and if you, if you have a lot of responsibility, you know, you need a lot of.
Uh, uh, God, math and, um, good math, not government math, you know? Geez. So, um, yeah, I, I think I got on a tangent there, but, um, you know, so a day-to-day, you know, for me, looks. Very unique. Um, but very consistent from staff meetings to reports on how children's and youth and, um, different departments of the church are [00:38:00] running to, um, meeting with different leaders, starting new ministries, empowering leaders, building budgets, um, for those things.
I, I, you know, ri I see it as, it's just like raising a home. I feel like if we could get that in the church world, um, and recognize that the kingdom of God is just a giant family, yet there's business aspect to it. Like, if these were my kids, how would I empower my kids in a healthy way? I wouldn't wanna enable them, I wanna empower them, you know?
And so we kind of approach leadership similar. Um. I'm excited about their ideas and dreams, but then they've gotta build a business plan.
what I mean? And
Riley: Yeah.
Adam Cooke: you know, we tell, I tell like our staff members when we like build budgets every year, I'm like, shoot for the moon, knowing that you may get a budget for the stratosphere.
You know what I mean? Like, and so you gotta be creative in how you're gonna reach the moon, dream big. Um, but you've gotta be creative. And so empowering them to [00:39:00] think outside of their box. Uh, I guess I'm getting in the weeds here, but, um, yeah, I don't know if I've answered your question. I actually don't remember the question.
Riley: day to day looks like, man. 'cause you, you
Adam Cooke: Oh yeah,
Riley: I think there is this
that every day is a church service, and it's just, that's Sunday, man. The, not another day of the week that looks like that. Right. That's
Adam Cooke: right.
Riley: of it.
You know, Sunday
morning is
Adam Cooke: Yeah.
Riley: everything else leads is like a rehearsal for Sunday morning, which is the big show. Right. That's a simplistic way to put it, but that's kind of what's going on. Everything else behind the scenes is all logistical, it's all money, it's all business decisions. It's like, uh, there is a, there's just a routine there that I think people don't see all the time and don't maybe have a, an appreciation for.
Adam Cooke: Yeah, no, it's very good. [00:40:00] I, you know, Sundays is like the big funnel. You know, we tell our team often that Sundays are the largest door into discipleship, into, uh, deep worship and encounter into our kids' ministries and youth ministry into small groups, into, uh, community. Um, the way that Western culture, uh, Christianity operates Sundays is the biggest door.
And, um, how I've described it to certain people is, uh, concerts. People that love concerts. I'm not one who likes concerts, but. I know there's people that just love, you know, that, that feel that big giant like show up to the thing. And, and what they don't realize is as a concert goer, um, you don't know all the work that goes into lighting, heating and cooling, setting up seats and staging.
Um, and Sundays don't just have those elements, but have elements and environments where you're receiving kids. And not only are you receiving [00:41:00] kids, you're receiving kids from all different backgrounds. Those that are disabled, those who, um, have special needs. Those, you know what I mean? You. And so you're trying to create an environment where you're communicating God's word and effectively, um, not just to adults, but to children of all demographics.
And you want that space to have the limited distractions as possible so that they receive the word of God. Um, and then are given next steps, um, to taking the word of God and practicing it in their lives. And so I've told our team, I remind them like Taylor Swift, when she goes on her tour, she does the same show a hundred times in one year.
So they get really good at it. And I said, let me, let me tell you what you and what we do. We do a different show every single week, and we rely upon the Holy Spirit to guide us and lead us. And [00:42:00] so every week there's new challenges, there's changes every week. You know, not only do we reach in person, 1200 plus people, but we also have an online community.
This is gonna blow your mind. This is just for funsies. I know we're not talking about this. This is, I, I see these stats come in from our, our production team. Which your son is a part of. Um, and I see these stats, these online stats that, that come in and barrow. These are separate IP addresses that tune in live on, I think it's four to five different platforms.
We're talking about 500 plus separate IP addresses every single Sunday morning. So if you're a family of five, you guys are a family of five, you're a family of five, and you guys are tuning in from, we have people tuning in from Ireland and Scotland. Um, five people are tuning in on one device. So just to put that into perspective, there's [00:43:00] 500 plus on average every Sunday separate IP addresses.
So not only are we ministering to people in person, but you're ministering to yes, families online and all of these pieces throughout the week. Point to the big funnel again. And so I tell the team, Sundays are mission critical because it points to Monday through Saturday. You know, like how are we stewarding and discipling people are, uh, are these small group leaders feeling equipped and empowered?
You're small group leader, you know, you're leading these guys. Um, I'm a small group leader. I'm leading my guys group. Um, are, are we doing what we need to be doing and equipping people? And so yes, throughout the week is just as important as that Sunday, but a lot of hours, even throughout the week, go to Sundays being different.
Um, 'cause they're different every single week. There's elements that are the same, but man, it's different content. [00:44:00] It's different expressions, it's different. Um, it's different approaches. Um, week to week, you know. So Taylor Swift's got it easy. Outside. Just kidding.
I think so. But what do I know? I know?
Riley: head and got
to see
Adam Cooke: I know,
Riley: like 'cause she does
Adam Cooke: We would hate it. Nope. Yeah, yeah. I'm with you. Yeah.
Riley: talk about, talk about this, 'cause you talk about the show is different every week, right? You have, uh, the underlying message always of the Gospel of Christ.
But man, that, that takes on so many different flavors.
Adam Cooke: Mm-hmm.
Riley: how do you prepare for
do you, how do you come up with a new message every week?
Adam Cooke: Well, um, you know, that's an interesting thought because, uh, being [00:45:00] dads, you know, us being dads, being fathers, I think you have a different message for different seasons, but how you communicate. That message is the method, you know, can change because of the seasons, but I don't think the message really changes.
Um, I, it would be silly for me to think that if I tell Hudson one time to sit down at the dinner table, 'cause he's a, he's a boy, so he's eating. He'll get up, walk around the island, come back, and then he's eating again, asking questions, cons. He's a social young man. Um, he's not like my other oldest son who doesn't talk much.
Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. He's a people person and so he's constantly talking and moving at the same time. And I probably tell him, kid, you not 10 plus times, sit down at the dinner table with us and talk to us. I don't get angry or upset, but to think that if I told him one time and that he would [00:46:00] get it, I think is.
Ridiculous. And so to think that we have to have a different message every single week, I think is ridiculous. 'cause it, it's taking, it's taken Hudson since he's been sitting at the table, so probably since he was like four. Um, 'cause he had his own little table and now he's at the big table to think that he would get it at four years old.
So I have to keep telling him, you know, now my son, my oldest son sits at the table, he's 18. You know, I think he got it like two years ago. So I, I, uh, yes there are, I think the, how I prep for a message is therapy for my own heart. And sometimes that therapy will be very similar because of the season we're in.
It's like, okay, Lord, what are you saying? Well Adam, we're gonna stay in the season so we're gonna keep hammering this, we're gonna keep going after this. [00:47:00] Um. We're gonna actually talk about it again in a different flavor. It's still salt, it's just a different flavor. Um, it still does the things to your body.
It's just said differently. And so, um, my preparation looks like on a weekly basis when I'm speaking, which is pretty consistent, I spend probably 16 to 18 hours a week per message. Um, that includes prayer, that includes study and research. Um, that includes practicing, saying it, listening to myself, say it, I record myself.
Um, and, um, that includes, uh, also just sitting in it. And, uh, after I've gotten it all written out, um, going back and changing it. So it's about 16 to 18 hours of preparation. I'm not a pro, like my senior pastor, Jim, he, he, he's like two to three. Adam, I'm like. [00:48:00] What I, I can't do that. I plus I, I feel like I need to give time to it.
This is me. I know everybody's different and he's got a wealth of wisdom and, you know, he's, he's 15 years older than me, so maybe when I'm 60, I'll, uh, I'll be able to spend four hours a week and writing messages because it's become so much a part of who I am. Um, I think when it comes to my core messages, those definitely are, don't take that long because it's coming out of, of years of practice versus this is what the Lord's leading me into.
You know that statement, like, you can never lead anybody where you haven't been. I just don't agree with that statement. I think you can lead people where you're going because, you know, I think of Lewis and Clark, who, the Oregon Trail, you know what I mean? These guys, they were leading a team of people to.
An unknown place. And so does that make them not great leaders? No. It, they were going somewhere. [00:49:00] And so I know that I, I can with more authority and effectiveness, teach people about where I've been, but I think to be a good leader, you've always gotta be going somewhere. And so, um, I, uh, I feel like a lot of the messages are leading me somewhere.
And so I wanna share the journey with people, and that's kind of my approach. Um, I said a lot of things in that, uh, in that question when you talk about, you know, leadership and repetition of message.
Riley: that just has been a theme in several episodes here of leadership. You are kind of making it up as you go. You said, you know, you disagree with the concept that you can't lead people somewhere where you haven't been, but frankly, that's leadership man, most of the time.
Adam Cooke: Yeah, it's good.
Riley: all leaders have
are kind of making it up as we go. We're the trailblazers. We're, we're out there doing [00:50:00] things that we haven't done, creating a new trail, and followers are following that, you know, and, and I don't mean followers in a degree, a derogatory term, but man, when you're leading, you're just, you're blazing the trail, dude.
And it's, there's not a trail there when you start most of the time. Right.
Talk about that.
Adam Cooke: Yeah, You know, because I brought up Lewis and Clark, um, and I was just in Oregon this last weekend, um, on one of their trails, which was really cool. I remember when, like one of their journals, I think they wrote things when they discovered bears. You're probably familiar with this story. They had never seen a bear up until this point.
They didn't, they were just describing it, you know, and they wrote in their journals or in their writings or whatever that, um, when they encountered these creatures. Shooting them with their guns only seemed to make them more mad. You know, like that's what they wrote. So it's like this, um, like when you're pioneering [00:51:00] something, you're gonna run into these creatures and you're not gonna know what they are and you're gonna do what you know to do.
If they scare you, you know, shoot 'em, I guess. Um, and the people that are following you, um, are gonna trust you to some degree as you make these decisions that affect them. Um, and you learn from your mistakes. And you can laugh now, you know, a hundred years later, um, at their mistakes. But you also see the value in like what you said of pioneering.
And I see, I feel like I say all that to say you have this. This giant hodge pge mosaic approach to leadership. I feel like all of us do, whether it's a business ministry, whatever it is, writing a book, you know, starting your, I don't know, you've started and successfully have done many businesses, but for salt, um, [00:52:00] you're stepping into the unknown and all you have is this abstract work of art moving forward.
And so you pull from those different things of what you know to do learning that maybe, oh, this, this worked, and oh, this doesn't work. Oh, this only seems to make them more angry, so we should stop shooting them. 'cause it's not killing them. They're going to kill us. You know? Um, and so I, I feel like, like you said, that's leadership.
And I would also say that, man, that's the joy and the challenge and the reward of it is the unknown. Pieces. And so we live in a culture now where armchair experts are giving everybody the three keys to success. And it's like, it's not going to work necessarily in my, on my trail, the trail on blazing because I tried what you did, but it only made the bears [00:53:00] mad and they devoured one of my people.
You know what I mean? So, um, I feel like the reward is great in the unknown. It's greater in the unknown than it is in the, the equation or the predictability pieces of this journey, you know? Um, and so I don't think I would want to be a part of an excursion that didn't have risk, that didn't have unknown, and that my leader wasn't willing to go down.
You know, like I would eventually wanna find somebody that all of us, I mean, I, I follow, you know, we're all following somebody, but I'm just saying like, when you're leading, you're, um, those are things I think about. Like, am I a person that I wanna follow?
You know what I mean? Like, am I,
I think that's a worthy question of every leader.
Am am I someone that I would want to follow? Um, and if the answer is no, well then you gotta make some [00:54:00] changes and you gotta be willing to shoot some bears and make them angry. You know?
Riley: Shoot 'em enough times. They quit getting angry and they die, Ryan.
Adam Cooke: I know. I guess then they had to reload, you know? You know what I mean? Then they're not like AK 40 sevens and
AR fifteens.
Riley: you've seen in Awaken Church, you know, we started going there in 2017. I think there was 180 people somewhere around there that attended Awaken at the time. you know, we're eight years later, it's uh, what, 1500 getting closing in on.
Adam Cooke: I, I would say in person, definitely 1200 plus is a conservative number. It just on a weekly basis. Yeah.
Riley: come, yeah. On a weekly basis, but
total
Adam Cooke: Yeah,
Riley: probably, actually,
if you figured, if everybody came on the same Sunday, it'd be a couple thousand. Right.
Adam Cooke: yeah,
yeah,
Riley: a huge growth
about. From a people leading [00:55:00] perspective, but also just from the logistics of building space of where to put 'em, where to park 'em, where to, how many services to run, how much repetition, you know, I mean, how many, how many times a weekend do you repeat the same message and, know, have to have to staff that up to a worship team that's gonna be there for seven hours as they,
Adam Cooke: yeah.
Riley: that look
adjusted to the growth?
Adam Cooke: Well, um.
You know, as a, as a lead pastor, I've never been here before. So, you know, as a, an associate, there was a season, excuse me, where I was from. Um, the Freedom Center was one of the fastest growing churches in the Assemblies of God in Michigan, um, during the early two thousands. And, you know, I was a lay leader to a youth pastor, and so I got to be a part of that.
So that's all I have to [00:56:00] some degree of experience in that role, in that place. Um, and so where we are today, um, I, I don't know. I mean, I, you just, I think you learn to trust God more and you learn to trust your wife more.
So
Riley: Talk about
Adam Cooke: like when I said, yeah, well, you know, when I said she's the fourth person in the Trinity.
Um, you know, God gives women, and you know this 'cause you're married, God gives women an uncanny ability to discern things maybe a little more than men. And it's because they're, I think they're more in touch with their emotional and and sensitivity side than most men are. It's not that we're not in touch, they're just more in touch as women.
Um, and I hope I'm not generalizing all women. I'm just saying some and some men. Uh, and so I think in this, these seasons of explosive [00:57:00] growth for us anyways, I, I've learned to trust the voice of God who's told me, trust the voice of your wife at times. And, um, she sees things and feels things that I don't.
There's a, I, I'm, I err on the side of giving people the benefit of the doubt, which is a great place to be, but it can also come back to bite you. Um, and my wife is a woman of consistent prayer. Um, I'm not, not a man of prayer, but my wife is a woman of consistent elongated prayer. Like I see her in the mornings.
I'm up early in my prayer closet with the Lord. I steward that time. It's important to me every morning. I love it. I'm up early. It's quiet. The house is quiet. But then when I go back upstairs to start getting ready and Brooke can get it, she's getting up later than I do. Usually she is praying in her bed, um, in the spirit, [00:58:00] praying for families, praying for the Rogers, praying for people that the Lord brings to her heart and mind.
And so because she's in communion with God, just so consistent, the Lord has told me like to trust her. She's hearing from the Lord and on certain seasons through growth hard seasons that you know of, that we've been a part of at this place. God gave her insight before those things even happened. And I remember Brooke just sharing things with me of, Hey, I think this is going on.
And I was just like, what? No way. You know, like I'm giving people a benefit of doubt. And then weeks later or a month later, I mean consistently with different challenges we've walked through. She's right like every time. So because she's right and she has a history of being right, and I know she's right because she told me before things even came out for me.
Um, the Lord has just taught me in this season, just trust your wife. She has the [00:59:00] churches and your heart's best interest in mind. And so it's been a season of that. I think in this growth period, I've learned to just, when people say, when are you going to three services? 'cause both services are just, I mean, we're closing down nursery and you know, you've been here, I, um, they're full.
We should be going according to metrics. We should have been at three services months ago. But because we're not listening necessarily to metrics or we are, I've told the team, like, let's just wait on the Lord and when he gives us the green light that we're supposed to do this, then let's do it. Because I don't wanna steward growth.
I wanna steward growth. And there's a difference. And I feel like in a season of constant people coming, you're just trying to maintain attendance and parking and, and then you can forget about growth.
You know, you focus on the outward growth. You can, you.
Riley: [01:00:00] growth versus heart growth of the people involved, right?
Spiritual growth.
Adam Cooke: Yes,
Adam Cooke: Yes, yes. Amen. Yes. Yeah, the inner growth versus the outward growth. And so we've been in that season of how do we grow leaders in the next season? Not how do we grow as a church in numerical, uh, numerically speaking. [01:01:00] Um, and honestly, ri you know, I mean, yeah, 2017, you know, we've been here since 2013 when it was 45 people.
2017. It was like in between like 1 30, 1 50. We started to see a breakthrough in 2018, and then we started doubling in attendance every year after that for good season. Um, when the Lord says, accommodate the growth because I'm sending people your way. That's what we'll do. I feel like there's been seasons of where the Lord is like, right now we're gonna focus on more space.
So we expanded the building, um, uh, third time. And, uh, that was because honestly, you know, I mean you're, those membership meetings that we've had, 'cause we vote on this stuff as a church. There was one vote that came in in 2020. Everyone said, let's expand the building back in 2020. [01:02:00] There was one vote that came in that, that said, no, I was the one that actually voted against the idea of expanding the building.
Um, and it was because, not because of lack of faith, I just, it wasn't, I didn't feel it was the right season for it, you know, like, and so then for the next four years, we just kept adding services, you know what I mean? And. Was I wrong? Uh, probably. Um, was I right? I don't know. Probably. I don't really know. I, at the end of the day, I think when it comes to being a leader and you are growing or your business is expanding, you're kind of taking it one day at a time and you're listening to the Holy Spirit and listening to those who are listening to the Holy Spirit.
I didn't have to say all that. I could have just said that.
Riley: That's concise man. And sometimes, you know, bringing these, there's a lot going [01:03:00] on here. Right.
Adam Cooke: yeah.
Riley: uh, simplify That is
thing. So. Well, it's well said, well said.
Um,
Adam Cooke: Out all that other stuff, geez.
Riley: What, um, when a, when an organization goes through growth, like Awaken Church has gone through growth, it's easy for some hubris to come in.
Right? So talk about how you kind of. I guess I, it's, it's almost funny to ask this question because I know you personally, and so I, I know it's, you know, you get in a big head is not really a problem for you, but I imagine the temptation's been there at times to think that you're the one doing all this.
Adam Cooke: Yes. Um, I've said many times my wife has said, like, Adam, you're like one of the most disciplined people I know. That statement can sound very prideful, by the way. Uh, and, and I have told her it's because I'm not the most [01:04:00] disciplined person I know, and it's those boundaries and those borders that keep my ego tamed.
And I have to have those things in place. Um, and again, it comes back to that statement that my dad always told me, Adam, you are always a son in every environment. It doesn't matter what age you are, you will always be a son in every environment. In other words, just learning, learning, learning. Listening, listening.
And so I feel like those are some boundaries and borders. I, I, I struggled a lot with imposter syndrome early on in ministry. And still, I think all of us do. I don't, I, I hope and pray that there'll be a day where I can say that I don't. Uh, and maybe that's the tension, you know, when I've talked to different people.
You gotta live in the tension of, of not, of what is false humility. And [01:05:00] what is true Humility, because false humility is prideful. You know, it's pride. And so you gotta live in that tension of being confident in who God calls you to be, but also humble and who God calls you to be. And so, um, I just have borders and boundaries in my life.
My wife keeps me very humble. Ri
so
I get, I, I, uh, my mom keeps me very humble. Kevin Schneider, I'm saying his name on this podcast. He keeps me very humble. But it's because I've allowed these people into my life to actually point at the dark parts and. My heart. Um, art Evans is another guy, uh, uh, that keeps me humble.
Pastor Jim Weekend is another guy, uh, Josh Welborn. I have, I have these people in my life that I do constant check-ins at least once a month. So these people I actually check in with at least once a month. Sometimes it's more. Um, and so that's a lot of people in my [01:06:00] life that do that. And you know, we have a church board and they do that as well, but I have a lot of checkpoints
and
Riley: what you're saying is
in your life who love you enough to hurt your feelings when your
Adam Cooke: Yes.
Yeah. And there's people in my life that don't know that do that. There's been times you and I have had conversation about what we do, and, um, I have felt it from you, not like you were, I've allowed it to like shape my heart in those moments. That's what I mean by that. It's, you're not intentionally doing anything or, or like Adam, it's.
Hey, have you thought, you've asked me many times, like, have you thought about this? And, um, and so I wanna maintain the attitude of I'm a son, you know, today I'm a son. And yes, I operate as a father at at many times, but I'm a son. And, um, I feel like those boundaries [01:07:00] have kept me at bay. 'cause if I'm building an empire, my own empire ri I'm doing it wrong.
And so, yeah, like I'm doing it wrong. And like, if I was gonna build my own empire, I would be doing a lot of other things that would appear to the world. This is what you do if you're going to succeed, that would be considered okay. But I know that if I was in that place, my ego would be set off. And so I know there's certain traps.
I know my traps. My wife knows my traps too. I, I have to run. Flee from those things, um, because I know my heart all too well, so.
Riley: You know, it's, it's, uh. I had a, a gentleman on the podcast a few episodes ago, and, um, his episode hasn't aired at the time we're recording yet, but it'll be interesting. I'd love you to listen to it and see what you think. But he's a coach. [01:08:00] His name's Joe Spinel, and he's a, he's a wrestling coach forever. And, and one of the things we talked about in that episode was, taking wisdom from wherever it comes from. And, you
know,
Adam Cooke: Mm-hmm.
Riley: I'm gonna segue this into kind of handling criticism, right? Because, you know, you're a, this, this figurehead in this church, and. And people have things to say and you, you get emails on a pretty regular basis. And some of 'em are, some of 'em can be helpful, can be hard, but helpful.
Some of 'em are just flat out weird. Um, some of 'em are, are, um, you know, just total crazy town. But, but some of 'em, again, you can pull some nuggets out of Right. And that's, I think that's what you're saying is, you know, maybe something I've said or somebody, somebody else says it's, it comes in and you have to weigh it.
You have to take it and go, man, that maybe was hard to hear, but is it true? And if it's true, how do I now adjust for this? And can you give us some insight [01:09:00] on that Man?
Adam Cooke: well, uh, yes. Um, yes. I, yeah, I mean, I get emails weekly, multiple ones. Um, I get encouraging ones, discouraging ones, ones that do make me say, okay, do I care about this? Am I, um, am I building my own empire? Uh, do I. Am I people pleasing? Am I, and so I take those things before the Lord. Um, there are people here on staff specifically.
My wife is one of them. Uh, Connie Vaughn, who's a board member, but also our bookkeeper here. Um, and then my assistant, they all kind of filter a lot of these letters. I get letters in the mail still. Um, the emails are usually anonymous when they're not good, but they still filter them. And I, there is like a, a litmus test that I've given them to, to, [01:10:00] if they're addressing these specific things, send them to me.
Um, the good, the bad, the ugly, all of it. If they're addressing these certain things, I do not care. Like, I don't wanna see that because I'm a feeler. You know, I've told you I do feel a lot and I, I do care about people and can care. Too much about what they think. That's a trap. So I know that. So that's why I've got those borders and boundaries again in my life.
I wanna see certain things. There are certain things that Brook's like, you should read this, and it does not make me feel good and it's not true, but because you care about this family, Adam, um, how do you wanna address this? Because I, I thought about not showing you because, um, I knew that you would be very sad and I said, yeah, no, I'm glad you showed me this.
I'm gonna call 'em today and just schedule a time just to sit with them, you know, and um, and [01:11:00] allow them to ask their questions. And I get to ask questions too, you know. Um, so I think when your core motivation is to build people and not build a building, you also risk your heart being stepped on and hurt.
But again, it comes back to that pioneer spirit. It's the reward is great. And so something Pastor Jim is keeps telling me often he is like, you, you trust people a, a lot, Adam and I keep doing that like it's a strength of yours, so don't ever close that door. Just keep trusting people and um, and know that you're gonna get hurt.
And so I've learned that it's just part of it. If I'm going to be who I am and lead effectively, I've gotta run the risk of, of feelings [01:12:00] pain because of what somebody says, you know? Um, but again, Jesus is the ultimate test. So it's like, well, God, do you feel this way about me? Honestly, if you spend time with the Lord consistently, you, you get to, you know his voice pretty well.
And uh, when you're uncertain, you ask him and he tells you, yeah, you got this in your heart. Oh, all right then I'll just receive this as a humbling letter. Thank you very much.
You know, this is from you.
Riley: he, for your own good
on a
Adam Cooke: You know,
Riley: right.
Adam Cooke: ri you know, I'm learning that, you know, John six where he tells these Jewish people, eat my flesh and drink my blood. And it says that day that many of his disciples, 'cause he had more than 12, but he had close 12 than his close three. Many of the disciples left him that day. And I love this part about the Lord.
You see his humanity. And then he looks at his 12, his crew. I mean, we got, we, we got those people [01:13:00] in our lives. He looks at 'em and he says, you guys aren't gonna leave me too, are ya? And then Peter, who just loves the Lord deeply, you know, he just says. You have the words of eternal life, where are we gonna go?
And that picture in John chapter six is an incredible picture of really the heartbeat of the church. I think I'm learning more, and I haven't put a lot of language to this, but recently I've been reading that studying that Jesus made it easier to leave than he did to stay. He made it easier to leave the church than he, and he made it harder to stay in the church.
Um, 'cause he wa he is the church, he's the, the body of Christ, the church is the body of Christ. And so, um, I'm learning that the attractional model of the church, um, [01:14:00] served its purpose and was a response to. Our neglect to God's word. And, and I'm talking like big c uh, attractional Model Church. I'm not thinking of any specific churches, but, you know, we all were a part of asking questions why we're not seeing people in church, but I'm learning more and more that Jesus made it easier to leave and harder to stay.
And so I feel like those letters, those interactions, if it's not hard, it's not worth doing. So I don't know, it's hard, but it's, it keeps me at bay. It keeps my heart checked before the Lord. Um, and I don't find any more identity in what I do. I've tried to give this thing away, Riley. I mean, you kind of know some of those.
I I've tried to, uh. I would gladly give this thing away. 'cause there's days it's really heavy and I don't find my identity in it like I used to as a young, uh, [01:15:00] false hum false humility guy. You know, when you're in your early thirties and you've got big plans and people give you compliments, you're like, thank you, but praise God, you know?
Um, I've learned now it's just, thank you. Just thanks. 'cause I'm in partnership with the Lord. You know, I, um, but that false humility, I've just, it's because my identity was wrapped up in it. My identity's not wrapped up in this anymore. Right. I, uh, and I know there's still parts of my heart that are being weeded out, um, from that, that entanglement, that trap, as the Bible says, it's an entrap, it's a trap to, to live for the approval of man.
Um. I would rather be doing, uh, developing property and building cabins. Riley. So,
so I'm on an assignment, so I'm doing what the Lord's telling me to do. I know what I would rather be doing. Um, and Brooke hears me often. I'm like, let's just, let's just go buy [01:16:00] property. Let's just sell everything and be done and just go mill the wood on some property, Hudson and I will go buy a tractor and we'll do it together and invite the kids to come.
Well, just, that's, that's what I wanted to go do. I, you know, so I don't know. That keeps my heart at check, you know what I mean? Like, that's also something else that keeps my heart at check. I don't, I don't wanna build an empire, so, yeah.
Yeah,
Riley: Can we switch to some lighter, lighter questions?
Adam Cooke: yeah. That'd be great.
Riley: Ask me this, so, so this podcast is called the Go Earn Your Salt Podcast. And I wanna know what that statement, go earn your salt means to you.
Adam Cooke: Um, the first thing that comes to mind, I guess, would be lead yourself well. Um, so that pain doesn't have to. And so this idea of go [01:17:00] earn your salt in my mind is lead yourself well. So pain doesn't have to, you know, I, um, I want to pursue health, not out of need in crisis, but out of, out of, um, uh, vision and, um.
Want, you know, because I know who I am and, and so when I hear go in your salt, it's like, let's just get to work. Let, let's, let's get to work. Um, I have great work in front of me that the Lord's called me to. So I don't wanna waste days or weeks or months or years, um, and fall into the trap of, of neglect.
And then years later, or months later, weeks later, it's the pain of that neglect that's leading me, or the crisis of that neglect. Now we're all gonna have crisis in our lives [01:18:00] and need, but I'm just saying, I wanna do what I can, um, with the years that I have, so that pain doesn't lead me. You know, I wanna lead myself well.
So I guess that's what I think of when you, it's like, go earn your salt,
you know? And Hudson loves all your flavors.
Riley: Well, so pain doesn't have to,
Adam Cooke: Lead yourself so that lead yourself so pain doesn't have to Yeah. Lead yourself well, so that pain doesn't have to,
yeah.
Riley: it's like
Adam Cooke: yeah.
Riley: bolt right there, man.
that's amazing.
Adam Cooke: Uh,
Riley: what's your favorite pastime?
Adam Cooke: wow. Favorite pastime. Wow. Ri that I've never been asked that. You know, I like, I'm like you, I mean, I'm an eighties, nineties guy kid. Um,
Riley: It means you leave your [01:19:00] bicycle in the front yard and build a wooden jump. Is that what that is?
Adam Cooke: yeah. I mean, what did we not do? You know what I mean? I, my favorite pastime would be riding my night wheel wheeler trike. My night rider trike, um, down my long driveway hitting a jump. Yeah, I mean the, the idea of just go out and as a kid you just, I mean, I, I don't know how I can sum that up. I the bad boys.
There you go. I'll just make it easy. You know, Detroit Pistons, the bad boys watching those games on NBC or a BC, you only had three channels, you know, when we were growing up, I don't count PBS either. Um, uh, CBS Yeah, I dunno, the bad boys, um, character t-shirt and being a part of winning the championship in the eighties.
dunno.
Riley: Nice.
Adam Cooke: dunno.[01:20:00]
Riley: into,
because I know you and Hudson both get, get, get a lot of time watching sports. Right. And
Adam Cooke: Yeah,
Riley: to know
Adam Cooke: he does.
Riley: He knows
in the sports world, and
I think he looks
Adam Cooke: Yeah.
Riley: from outer space and I'm
it. He's Mr.
Adam Cooke: Like, what's wrong with You
Riley: are playing I don't, so I, yeah, I'm totally clueless in that.
It's funny.
Adam Cooke: Yeah.
Riley: Uh, Adam,
Adam Cooke: Um, I like all music, a lot of music genres, so I don't know if I have a favorite band, um, but I do like me some Nat King Cole. So, um, Nat King Cole plays often when I'm cooking. Brooke and I cook together a lot, so I always have his music in the background while I'm wearing an apron with my wife. So, um, it's very therapeutic and yeah, I love it.
Nat King Cole,
so
Riley: quirky
you that people don't know?[01:21:00]
Adam Cooke: I can't stand. Blue pens, blue Ink.
I know you probably didn't know that. Yeah, that's for real. My, my assistant and the bookkeeper, the board, they, they know I cannot stand blue ink, so do not give me a blue pen to sign something. It just seems so unofficial.
Riley: That is hilarious, man.
So
Adam Cooke: I know, I know. It's,
Riley: be
Adam Cooke: it hurts my eyes. Yeah. No, I, it's hard to read. It stands out and I'm like, I can only read it for so long. I don't know. I'm weird,
Riley: perfect answer to that question. Yeah. Favorite food,
Adam Cooke: man. I like food. I would say what we get to do, um, every once in a while it's sushi. I love sushi. Like I, I could eat that for breakfast, lunch, and dinner. So yeah. I love me some parasites.
Riley: for some sushi [01:22:00] here.
Adam Cooke: Yes, we are. And I think it's my turn, actually. I think you got it the last time,
Riley: of your life?
Adam Cooke: man. Um, you know, I've actually talked about it. I think one of the one that comes to mind is, I remember when someone broke into our house, I was about eight years old and they had broken into our basement sliding door, you know, in Michigan we got basements and so, and walkout basements. So it's like a whole nother level of a house down there.
And that's where my older brother and my sister's bedrooms were. And they had broken into the house and stole something from my brother's bedroom. And my mom thought it was my brother coming in from work or whatever that it is. And he would've probably, at the time, he would've been 18. Um, and so my mom went downstairs and was like.
Said his name and then saw this guy [01:23:00] just run out. It wasn't my brother run, start running through the basement and out the back door. And my mom, you know, screamed and I remember the cops showing up and I remember being eight years old, just afraid like, oh, someone just violated us, you know, our home. If this guy can get in, anybody can get in.
Um, and he didn't do anything to us, but if this guy can get in our house, our house isn't safe. So that was the scariest, uh, it was a fear that I had to overcome. Every time I went down into the basement, I was always wondering, is there someone down there waiting for me? You know? So
was pretty scary for a season.
Riley: because I, I had my car broken in one too one time. Somebody just got in. Now I was a teenage kid and they stole my stereo and that, but that violation of your personal space is a much bigger deal the stuff they stole. Right.
It's
Adam Cooke: Yes.
Riley: of
man, I'm vulnerable here and that.
Yeah.
[01:24:00] Freaky
Adam Cooke: awful.
Riley: Yeah.
Adam Cooke: Yeah,
yeah,
Riley: Adam, what, what advice would you give your younger self.
Adam Cooke: yeah. Hmm.
Don't take it too seriously. Um, I'd say something like that, I would say, um, there were some things, and you don't hear this too often, I would tell myself, keep doing that. Um, in certain arenas, I'm a relational person, so I would encourage me to keep, keep doing that. Well, um.
Uh, I, I, I would say, uh, con uh, early on, I would've said in my marriage, like, Adam, be more honest. [01:25:00] Yeah, be more honest. Um, with Brooke, uh, I have like one line sentences. I think there, you know, there's not a whole lot of profound things. It's just, um, hey, this does work. Trust your instincts. There was many times I didn't and I would trust others, and there were many times I think I missed opportunities because I didn't trust my gut, you know, because I didn't, I didn't know to trust my gut.
Um, but yeah, I think that's, that's all I would say.
I don't have a lot of regret, so I, I mean, I have some, obviously all of us do, but I, I don't have a lot of regrets. So I think a lot of things, I, I mean, I have those regrets of like, like, like I just said, I wish I would've trust my gut, but I, I, I did value people's opinions, you know, [01:26:00] um, and wisdom.
And I think in areas where I wish I would've risked more, I wish I would've trusted my gut more. And I was listening to the voice of caution, um, and fear disguised as wisdom and I should have trusted my gut.
So,
Riley: a
Adam Cooke: yeah.
Riley: man. 'cause yeah,
worry and fear can decide disguise itself in wisdom. know, and sometimes. FOOLISHNESS can describe itself or, uh, disguise itself as, as, uh, boldness. Right?
Adam Cooke: Yeah,
you're not wrong.
Riley: to kind
It's like, which
1:00 AM
Adam Cooke: Yeah,
Riley: here? 'cause they,
holy cow.
Adam Cooke: yeah,
That's, that's very good.
I should be interviewing you.
Riley: This is so fun, man. What's, what's an item on your bucket list?
Adam Cooke: Um, developing [01:27:00] property, um, for sure is an item on my bucket list. Building Scandinavian cabins on that property, um, with my hands. Um.
Riley: Why Scandinavian?
Adam Cooke: Uh, I just love the minimalistic approach. Um, the beauty of Scandinavian like architecture is that it doesn't take away from its surroundings. It actually hides. And I would love for nature to be seen more. And, um, so I love the design, I love the simplicity. Um, I love that it doesn't require much. Uh, and, uh, I kind of wanna live the rest of my life that way where I'm not a diva and I don't require much, you know?
And so Brooke and I got to go to Norway and even be a part of seeing that type of architecture. And honestly, like even meeting the people there, [01:28:00] um, they don't require much. These sheep herders, they don't require much. Um, they're homes. They don't require much. And so, um, yeah, I think I love that architecture, that vibe, that style.
Uh, so those are
Riley: of talking about. 'cause I, maybe I,
Adam Cooke: Oh, yeah.
Riley: maybe I don't know.
Adam Cooke: yeah. I, I can, I actually have a lot of drawings that's definitely on the bucket list, so, yeah. And then, you know, stuff for my kids, you know, just things that you dream of for your kids are on my bucket list. I wanna be a, a really good grandpa. Um, and so somehow figure out how to become independently wealthy so that I can pour into the ideas of my grandkids.
So,
and a 67 fast back. So I, I would like a 67 fast back. That would be a, that's on my bucket list.
Yeah.
Riley: I
love it.
Adam Cooke: I'll [01:29:00] settle for, I'll settle f.
Yeah, I'll settle for a 71 Chevelle, but uh, uh, yeah, some type of muscle car from the late sixties would be, or early seventies would be be solid.
So
Riley: That's
Adam Cooke: yeah,
Riley: Um,
your favorite book of all time?
Adam Cooke: besides the Bible, I know that's the right answer. I really do love the Bible. Um, so a book that is marked to me, um, and that I go back to often is, well, there's two books. It's The Way of Life by Bill Johnson. And, um, and then there would be like a side note that he actually, the way of life is like a lot of his books altogether, but this wouldn't count as my number two, but it's a part of it is raising giant killers by.
By Bill Johnson. Phenomenal books. Um, really [01:30:00] focus on the culture of your heart and the culture of your home, um, and the culture of the Kingdom. Um, and then the other book would be that is marked to me is, uh, the Pursuit of God by a w Tozer. It was actually my very first ever Christian like book that I read.
Those are two that have just changed my life. And, um, yep. Did I say The Pursuit of God by a w Tosser? I thought that's what I said.
Okay.
Riley: Yeah.
Adam Cooke: yeah. Yep. Those are two of my favorite books. I know there's a lot of great books out there, but there's, I have a ton of books that I really like, but those two books have marked me
so.
Riley: those that just kind of speak to you, they hit you right at the right time in life and you read 'em and it's just kind of hits you deep in your soul. It's like, man,
Adam Cooke: yeah. and you can reread them. You know, it's, uh, there's a lot of books I've read [01:31:00] once and they're good. But yeah, I like to reread those,
so,
Riley: that I
time. And those ones are special.
Yeah.
Adam Cooke: yeah. That's good
Riley: me next for you? What's, uh, where are you going from here? What's the, what's in the near future plans?
Adam Cooke: for my heart or for me personally.
Riley: what? Whatever you got going on, man.
Adam Cooke: Well, I hope to buy property and build cabins and be done fasting. No, I'm just kidding. I dream that often. Uh, you know, I'm in the season of releasing my kids and so what's next is I wanna steward this season well. So, you know, Anabel is in her young adult phase and has come back home, which is great. Um, she's gone right now and doing a [01:32:00] job in San Francisco.
She's just young adulting. But this is my son, my oldest son's graduating. So right now what's next is he graduates this year and my other daughter graduates the next year. And I want to be a really good consultant and manager of their hearts and their dreams the next few years. So that's kind of what's next is I wanna do that well.
that's where my attention and my focus is.
Riley: that right, of that transition from being a, parent to being for your children, uh, your
grown children,
Adam Cooke: Well there's, right, there's three phases, right? Of being a parent. There's owner, manager, and consultant. And with, when they get to that. Age, you're kind of bouncing between the two of manager and consultant. You've gotta let them learn things, but then you, there's also things where you're like, I still gotta manage them, you know?
And so the [01:33:00] big three, I've, I'm in that season the last few years and we'll continue to be in the next two years of, of just consult, managing manager, consultant, just back and forth. So that's what's next for me.
Riley: Dude. Well, listen, I appreciate you taking time to come visit with me today.
Dude. This has been super cool. Um, you've been just been dropping a lot of wisdom bombs and it's fun
to.
Adam Cooke: I appreciate it. I didn't know what this was gonna be like and honestly. Ri, this is huge. I, I appreciate that you gave me space for it and you know, from one great dad to another incredible dad who's ahead of me and a pro at things, um, I very much appreciate the invitation, so it's very good.
Riley: enjoyable. Um, we should do it again at a future date. Be super fun. have more questions. I know we got a limited time window here, but man, I, there's so much more I would love to talk about. Need to get that sushi scheduled up. We, we'll get out and do that. And, [01:34:00] uh, the meantime, go earn your salt, Adam.
Adam Cooke: yeah, yeah, you too man. I love you.