Roger Perez: [00:00:00] it was at Bagram, Afghanistan, 2010, and, uh, forgot my, uh, Microsoft Zune, if you know what that is.
Instead of an iPod, it was a box that Microsoft made that wasn't an Apple product, right? Forgot my Microsoft Zune, so I went back into my tent. I had started up a dump truck and waiting for it to get warm 'cause it was a diesel, so I went back inside, came back outside. It was blown up. It was gone. So because I forgot my music, music is life, um, I was still alive.
You are listening to the Go Earn Your Salt podcast, brought to you by Salt Electrolytes. On this podcast, your host, Riley Rogers, explores the stories of people who get after it, get things done, and earn their salt. You will hear from high achievers who discuss what makes them tick, how they got to where they are today, and where they're headed tomorrow.
Perhaps this podcast will help you go earn your salt
Riley: [00:01:00] Today I have my friend Roger Perez. .. I, I asked Roger on here 'cause he's, he's got this just, just really awesome business mind.
He's, he's an athlete. He's a jujitsu black belt. He's, uh, he's works on multiple projects. He's a jujitsu school owner. He's got all this stuff going on where he's got all these irons in the fire. And so for our business owner audience, I love this kind of dude. So, uh, and Roger's right up our alley here. So Roger, welcome to the show, man.
Roger Perez: Hey, it's a pleasure. Uh, thank you for the kind words. Appreciate that
Riley: No, dude, I've, I've kind of watched you at a distance, not, not even at a distance, almost close up. I kind of sit and analyze what you do on a, at these, uh, spring events that
we've, I've been to, you know, and been part of and, and I really have... enjoyed watching the wheels turn and watch all the... know, I only see part of it, obviously, but it's, there's a lot of stuff going on that you're, you're part of and taking care of and organizing and, and it's [00:02:00] spurred me to kind of, I don't know, I nerd out a little bit on that kind of stuff, right?
Roger Perez: Yeah.
Riley: I admire the way you do it because you keep a clear, cool head during a lot of high-pressure situations, man.
So that's all genuine. That's, that's... Yep,
Roger Perez: I appreciate that.
Riley: amazing dude.
Roger Perez: Nah, thank you for that
Riley: about, talk about who you are, man. Where, where'd you grow up? Where'd you come from? What was life like as a kid?
Roger Perez: So I'm, uh, my parents were Mexican immigrants. I'll start there. I think that's very important to understand, um, prob- just because the, my upbringing is probably, uh, as a Hispanic kid, as a Chicano. So my dad's from Mexico, came here, same with my mom. Both, uh, came through, made the American dream, got their citizenship.
I was a first born in my country, so already high pressure on me to be successful, right? I'm the first, uh, born in a family of six, so oldest of six. So immediately from a young age already responsibilities to help little ones, my, my younger siblings, stuff [00:03:00] like that. Uh, couldn't really afford to do sports, uh, young, 'cause I mean, we're the old- I was the oldest of six.
Until about middle school, that's when I picked up wrestling. It didn't really cost anything 'cause I could just, you know, the school pays for that type of thing. So I came up as a grappler from the very beginning. Um, did baseball one year and that was okay. But I picked up on wrestling and that's kinda where for me I guess if you can call wrestling a martial art, it is, it is the oldest martial art, I believe.
But it, a lot of people don't think it is. But my opinion, I started in martial arts when I was in middle school. Started wrestling in, uh, Blythe, California, and, uh, and that's Riverside County for those that don't know. Um, I was born in East Los Angeles, but my dad moving around, um, he came... My dad actually came here on a, uh, work visa.
My dad is a agriculture engineer in the University of Mexico, and back in the '90s, just if you wanna nerd out with me, the glassy-winged sharpshooter fly was devastating orchards, citrus orchards across California. And my dad came over as part of, like, a work hire [00:04:00] program, and he just started working his way through the system, and they hired him on for his skills.
And that's how I'm here today in California. But, uh, for me, I started, uh, started wrestling, and, uh, Blythe, California, is, like, a farm. Like, there are farms in California, for those that've never been to California. Um, that's a big farming community there. So I grew up working for, uh, agronomists. Uh, those are the guys that go out in the field and tell the farmers where they need to apply fertilizer.
So from a very early age, uh, as soon as I could get in the FFA in high school, I started, uh, I was in the FFA. I was a, I was a nerd, FFA president there. So I wrestled, did the FFA, raised pigs. I was into horticulture 'cause I was, that's what I was, that's what was around me. There's not much in Blythe, California.
There's still to, to this day, there's still no Walmart in California, in, in Blythe, California. Very small town. The thing to do there is work for the prison system. Um, that's, like, two of the largest prison systems were out there. Uh, Chuckwalla and Ironwood, I think are the name of them. [00:05:00] And, uh, grew... Again, just farm stuff, uh, wrestling until I, uh, left for college, because my dad wanted me to go to college.
I wanted to join the military, and he said, "No, you're gonna go ahead and do this." So I did what my dad said, and he said he's gonna help me pay, and of course he couldn't help me pay with five younger siblings. And a year in college, I had good grades. Um, I did a little bit of wrestling in college, but, uh, again, I didn't go on a wrestling scholarship 'cause, I mean, it's Division I in, in California.
It's pretty tough. So I was a good wrestler, but I wasn't world-class. I mean, I didn't have the time or the money to go to the, to all the, like, Greco and all the other freestyle camps. I only had the money to basically do what was available to me there. And again, Blythe is small, so it wasn't like being in Orange County, you know, any of the big cities where they had a lot of those camps around.
So I'd have to travel two to three hours just to get to these camps and find a place to stay. So it was just out of my reach at the time
Um, fast-forward, join the military, go to the Air Force, um, [00:06:00] find jujitsu in Afghanistan in, hmm, like 2005, uh, with my buddy Derek Kington, who's a Kurt Pellegrino black belt.
He was a purple belt at the time, and he just needed somebody to help him with wrestling, and he was getting ready for a fight. So we were in a Bagram Air Base, Afghanistan, and, uh, man, I just, uh... He needed someone to help him to take him down so he could work on his jujitsu, and I- he, in exchange, he taught me jujitsu, and that's where I started doing jujitsu.
NoGi jujitsu, I, I started in Afghanistan while deployed in the Air Force, so Uh, fast-forward, I mean, I've bounced around from place to place, uh, basically doing no-gi jujitsu until November of '13 when I got here in Wichita Falls, and that's when I put on the gi for the first time, believe it or not. And so all those years of grappling, and it wasn't, I guess that's been, dang, that's almost 13, 13 years ago now, now.
20, yeah, dang, that's kinda crazy. Time flies. So grappling a long time, but only in the gi for the last 13 years, and, um, [00:07:00] opened up my place, Dynamic Martial Arts, here in Wichita Falls. Uh, it's been fi- over, over five years now. I have about 185 students right now. Um, maybe three years ago, I started working directly for Master Carlos Machado, uh, helping him with his events.
He has big events every two, every April and October. Um, he ha- originally hired me to run the events and nothing else. Um, just because when I was in the military, I actually, uh, worked for, I was in this position called protocol, which the protocol officer is the guy who, essentially I like to think of it as the guy who sets the stage for the visitor and the host.
Uh, whenever there's somebody from, uh, Saudi Arabia who's coming to visit Sheppard Air Force Base because we have the largest technical training base program for the, uh, largest tech training base for like the F-16 and the F-15 here at Wichita Falls. Uh, Saudi Arabia has F-15s, so whenever they come to do business they send the bigwigs here, [00:08:00] and I am basically the one who asks them, "Okay, what is your business?
What will you be bringing? What will you want me to talk about? Will you wanna have lunch together or do you have other business?" So I kinda make sure all expectations are understood and let the general know, "Hey, here's what's going on. By the way, his favorite color is blue. He's got three boys, two girls, and he really likes dates, like the fruit dates."
So I kinda try to find stuff out so the general can focus on what he's doing, and then when it comes time to meet I give him a smart card and he's, you know, kinda knows everything that's going on. So I did that, put on a bunch of air shows, the Air Force Ball. Um, Senator Max Thornberry came to town, we had to do big tours on the base and kinda show him, so I'd have to go find subject matter experts for all the different, um, Air Force specialties.
So like if I have a plumber, an electrician, an aircraft mechanic, uh, a jet engine specialist, those are all different schoolhouses. So I'd have to go find where am I going on these tours and who's the best person or the one best person to represent [00:09:00] That spec- that, that specialty to give Senator Mac Thornberry a good synopsis on what they do and what problems they have so that he could help us.
So long story short, now I run these events, and I try to find who's the best guy for this position or this submission so I can put in front of a room of 300 to 400 people on the mat together, and how do I put them in the right order so that a white belt can come to this event and know nothing, learn a takedown, learn to, learn to pass in side control.
Now I have a couple attacks from here. Then I do some stuff from the bottom. Who's the best guy on bottom for sweeps? Who's the best guy on bottom for arm, like, troy bars or triangles? So my jujitsu mind really quickly started shifting over from the military protocol, organization, project management, to now I'm gonna organize these cool jujitsu events where...
That's where I met you. That's where I brought Riley on and his- and, and SALT because, you know, they, they fit our, our mold of this is the people that, you know, we wanna partner with. We believe in the product. He's a jujitsu guy. Our guys would use his [00:10:00] product. And, uh, man, I guess that's, that's really me.
I'm just a dude who talks to other people and tries to help other people. I'm big into teamwork and, uh, project management. That's kind of my thing. Um, a little bit, uh, you know, um, a little bit of a nitpicky when it comes to some things, especially event coordination and stuff like that. So, uh, it takes, it takes a lot to run a nice event.
It takes a lot to run a smooth event. But, um, it takes a lot of trust, I guess, the biggest thing that I've learned in, uh, picking the right people for the right positions. So yeah. I don't know if I answered your question, man, but that, that's me.
Riley: Yeah, man. That's you. Well, listen, you, you mentioned something in there, Roger, that's intriguing to me.
because you took the skills you learned from the military,
Roger Perez: Hmm
Riley: you took efficiencies and the mindset and the things you learned from jujitsu, you've been able to put them all into what you're doing now, especially with these event organization.
Um, [00:11:00] it's, fascinating to me, man, 'cause you're, you're just... You're finding education in all these different areas and bringing it all into this hub that makes you a very well-equipped, very valuable person.
Roger Perez: Thank you for that
Riley: again, can't express... You, you said you take all these things and, and a lot goes into running a nice event. Um, for, for those watching, and I can just say this from a, from a participant in that event, uh, that Roger's talking about, it's, it's not just well-run, it's, it's squeaky clean. It's beautiful. And when... It's, it's... My wife and I's... My wife doesn't even practice jujitsu, but it's this jujitsu weekend that she loves to be at because it's just so well-run. and it's the only one that we've ever been to that she enjoys going to, so
Roger Perez: Wow.
Riley: You, you
Roger Perez: that
Riley: there that I thought was impossible.
Roger Perez: Thank you for that. Thank you for that. I, I've had the pleasure ... I've been very lucky. Um, Master Machado is a [00:12:00] very ... So I work for him, he's my boss, but he's also my friend. Um, he's my jujitsu master and professor and, um, you know, he's also a mentor. But one of the things that, uh, Carlos has blessed me to help me improve my, my ability to do a better job for him is, uh, he takes me with him not just for the ride, but while Carlos is doing those general, like, things and he's talking and mingling and
'Cause that's, that's Carlos' gift, is communication and connection, and jujitsu of course. Those three things. So if I allow him to focus on those things and I get to go on these seminars or these giant, you know, Taekwondo expos or Krav Maga or mixed martial arts things, like he takes me with him to those things and other business things.
'Cause Carlos still goes to all these events, uh, himself to keep learning. At, at his age, at his, the level of his game, he's still doing those things. So I've been very blessed to see how other people do things, and I steal every little thing that I can from them. Every, like, having the clock and, like, [00:13:00] having the schedule printout and just having every, like, giving a five-minute break versus 10-minute break, and like all these little things.
So I can't take all that credit because honestly, I've went to some of the event, some of the events that Carlos had before I worked for him, and I saw him and immediately when he offeed me, offered me the job, I knew exactly what I wanted to do to improve them. But then I got to go on these trips with Carlos and see how other organizations are doing things, and I got to learn a lot really quick on, like
And then feedback forms. That I do a lot of feedback forms with my guys that attend, and that, that's the most valuable thing, is listening to the customer on what they like, what they didn't like, and then what they'd like to see, and then actually implementing that. So that's all I got to say about that, is like thank you for the kind words, and the fact that your wife, who doesn't train jujitsu and actually en- en- enjoyed it, that's super powerful for me because our event is family-friendly.
And I don't know if you remember, we had kids at our event this time, and that was the very first time we had kids doing an all-day seminar like that, and, uh, we got so much good feedback for it. We, we opened [00:14:00] it up. I mean, there's like 25 kids, but that's a lot of kids at a jujitsu event that goes from, like, 9:00 AM to, like, 6:00 PM.
It's all jujitsu. This time we're opening it up to 50 and we're capping it because we know the demand's there now. But 50's a good strong number and, and at any more than that, then we probably have to have an own kids-only event, and which we plan to do that in the future because we see a need for it and we see kids that are hungry for it.
It's just something we're gonna provide. So yeah.
Riley: No, that was a cool thing, man, the way you guys... You had it separate but kind of integrated, right? It was,
Roger Perez: Damn
Riley: The, uh, the kids were kind of in their corner doing their thing, but they had... Like, when you did the question-answer time and the kids got to, got to go in there and ask questions of the, of the guy instructing, that was so cool, 'cause the, the questions are very different.
They're, they're, um... I think sometimes adults, we get bashful, and we don't wanna be that guy who asks w- you know, maybe something that's, [00:15:00] eh, it's maybe sounds like a dumb question, right? We don't wanna be that guy,
Roger Perez: Yeah
Riley: anything, you know? And you get somebody like Carlos up there who's this just legendary instructor and this legendary jujitsu guy, and he's got all this information.
He can answer any question you want, but we're all afraid to ask because we just... But the kids aren't. Those kids, some of those questions were just like, they were beautiful, 'cause I was like, man, I kinda, kinda thought that too, but I wasn't willing to open my mouth and say it.
Roger Perez: Yeah, I saw that with Zoltan. You know, Zoltan's a big Hungarian guy, rock star, thread lo- you know, thread... If you know Zon- Zoltan, you know he's one of the most kind, loving, you know, giving guys you'll ever meet. So I, and I've had the pleasure of doing some things with Zoltan, training with Zoltan, and, you know, having dinner with him.
So I ge- I got to know... I know him more than the average person, right? Uh, and seeing him teach and then the way he interacted with the children and the way the children a- asked quest- and he, and he said, "That's the best question of the day." And it was something so specific about how, like, [00:16:00] what if they do this?
What do I do with my hand then? And he's like, "Oh, I'm glad you asked that question." And it completely... And I remember Zoltan was, like, basically grabbing their, if they got the lapel gripped, and you grab the lapel, and then now their grip is how you have them locked, and they're talking about if they went like this.
And the kid said, "What do you do?" And Zoltan's like, "I'm glad you asked that question. Then you have a foot sweep." You know? Like, it turns it into a whole new move, but you just keep the same grip. And then that changed the whole dynamic of it, but it was such a thing that, a beautiful thing to me that we allowed the kids to do that, and the kids were, felt...
The thing that I liked was the kids felt, uh, integrated and welcomed enough in the group with the adults and the black belts and everyone else. 'Cause a lot of kids, even though they'll ask questions in the kids class, I don't know if they would ask questions with the adults and in a group setting that big.
But the amount of time they, they spent with us and the amount of time that they had to kinda, like, mesh with the group and understand the dynamics and even... We didn't have to tell them to be quiet because they were drilling and they were working and the kids knew, "Okay, if the instructor's talking, we're not [00:17:00] talking."
So it was, it was a beautiful sight to see for us, and it was awesome
Riley: Yeah, that was a, that was a cool, cool experience, man. And then the, the people you put in charge, so um, you had... I'm trying to think if you had... It was four or five kind of that I noticed, kids instructors, right? And the little bit I paid attention to it, you know, I, I listened in on kind of what they had going on, and the skill level of those guys to keep the kids entertained, to change subjects often enough to keep the kids' attention spans there, the level of excitement they built up and stuff, you know, I- it was such a cool thing 'cause you, that takes a, that takes a, a high level of skill to do that. You can, and most adults can just bore kids to death, and then they wonder why the kids aren't behaving, 'cause they're off in la-la land 'cause it's boring, right?
Roger Perez: Yeah, so we purposely selected those, and Ray, Ray Machado's obviously Carlos' son, and he's a purple belt. [00:18:00] He's in his early 20s, and he's the head kids coach at Carlos' academy, HQ, at Headquarters Academy there in Carrollton, or Farmers Branch, excuse me. And then Alex is one of Professor Sampson's, uh, green belt, high-level competitor, constantly competing, young teen.
And then Mila has also had her beginnings in, uh, Carlos' school, and then she's mo- they moved into, to a different area, and she trains primarily in the, in NoGi now, but still trains in the Gi as well. Um, so again, another high-level competitor. And so those three, I mean, with the amount of jujitsu knowledge they have since they've been doing it since they were, like, four years old, they're the perfect fit, 'cause they're cool.
You know, the, to the kids, they're cool. They know a lot of jujitsu. They're strong. They're advanced. You know, so the kids almost ... The kids, and the cutest part to me, the coolest part to me about it was when Alex competed, Ray competed, and Mila competed, the kids were, like, fanboying and fangirling, and going over there.
And they met ... And again, some of these kids knew them, but most of them, this is the first time they got [00:19:00] interacted with them was at our event, at that Machado Method Summit. And then we have our tournament on Sunday, as you know, which I didn't really mention that, but on Sunday we have an invitational at the end of this three-day event.
So now these coaches are com- these kids' coaches are competing for themselves, and then all these kids are swarming over, cheering for their coach, which is, you know, a coach they just met a couple days before, or the day before. So that was super cool to see
Riley: Yeah. That is awesome. That's, that is something that, uh, the fact that you guys put on this. it's a, it's a three-day camp plus a tournament at the end. So
Roger Perez: Mm-hmm.
Riley: talk about a lot of moving parts, man, 'cause a tournament on its own is incredibly involved in the amount of stuff that goes on there, right? But you add a, add a three-day camp to it and all the instructors.
And I know this time, so you had some challenges, right, with, uh, scheduling. There were some late planes, there were some different appointments, there were some
Roger Perez: Yeah
Riley: changes you had to [00:20:00] make. Will you talk about that a little bit, how to, how you kind of roll with those punches?
Roger Perez: Yeah, so, uh, communication is, like, the biggest thing for me. Uh, I really pride myself on my open communication, um, and communicating with my instructors, my seminar instructors. Um, I... For this type of stuff, I don't communicate with Master Carlos as much because I don't wanna put any stress on him, and if it's something I can take care of, then I will take care of it, get the, get the solution.
I'll, I'll present him the problem, "But don't worry, here's the solution and here's how I fixed it." I never come to him with problems. That's the military in me. I never... Unless there's something I've already tried and I cannot solve it, then I'll tell him the problem, and I'll give him the two options that he wants to take, and if it's something that I just can't decide.
However, for this, uh, for the event, I mean, I have all of my instructors on one group chat, and I'm checking on all of them, "Hey, you're, you know you're teaching tomorrow at this time, correct? Yes or no?" I need yes or no. Yes, I understand. And, uh, so we had some storms, and I don't [00:21:00] remember exactly where the storms were happening.
We had flights delayed that a guy was gonna come in the next day. He was gonna miss his flight out. It was, it was actually New Mexico. There were storms in New Mexico, and it was, uh, it was Professor, it was Professor Sanchez. He was gonna miss the whole entire day. So I just, basically once he told me that, I said, "Hey, man, I'm not, I'm not asking for maybe you might make it.
Do you know for sure you're gonna make it?" He goes, "I don't know." I said, "Okay. You're getting bumped to tomorrow, so you won't lose your teaching position. However, I'm taking Professor Eddie Avalar and swapping your spots. So you're gonna just swap because Professor Eddie's already here," because he's part of my staff, um, and he's also one of my instructors.
So, um, talking to them, obviously, he's seeing that all, all the guys are seeing that on the chat, so then immediately I have guys stepping up, "Hey, I can cover that," or, "Hey, this flows well with this, so I can go ahead and take care of that." So there's part of that too, because I don't just wanna throw a body in there just to fill it, because if we're doing, you know, half guard, I think throwing leg locks would be good 'cause there's a lot of leg lock entries from half guard.
But if I'm doing [00:22:00] stand up, and then, hey, now we're doing leg locks, like, uh, there's some missing pieces there. Because I do try to have some form of flow that even if a white belt's in the class, and maybe they're not, you know, they don't know anything about leg locks, but they know how to do a takedown, they knew how to do a guard pass, they knew, they know they had to do the half guard entries.
Okay, now I have a way to actually get to this. Um, so there is some, some method to the madness, so to speak. I don't just throw a bunch of names in there and who's available, "Okay, now you're gonna teach this." So we're not going from gi chokes to no gi, you know, com... No gi leg attacks. It's all very structured.
No gi in the morning, gi in the evening. Um, I always try to start the very first one with some form of takedown or guard pull into something, start from the feet, and then we flow to whatever happens there, and then counters after that and reversals and that kind of thing. So you actually have a semi-formulated game plan from every position by the time you leave.
Riley: Yeah. [00:23:00] The How long am I getting out here? The, the guy, you know, you're talking... Gosh, I'm d- dying 'cause I'm, I'm forgetting his name, but the leg lock dude that was l- that his flight was being messed with. Um,
Roger Perez: Johnny Hernandez
Riley: Johnny Hernandez. Yes. Um, he's a phenomenal teacher, right?
Roger Perez: Mm-hmm.
Riley: m- that's... Leg locks is something that's a recent, um, addition to my jujitsu game
Roger Perez: Mm-hmm.
Riley: that, that aside, when I would go to his, his instructionals, I'm like, "Man, this dude knows how to convey a thought." I, uh, I love that. But this, in this... I can't remember if it was this event or the previous event, Roger, y- there was one instructor that really dropped the ball, and if I remember the situation, it was... He got, like, distracted. He, like, showed one technique and, like, got distracted and then really never came back, and it was ki- it was a, it [00:24:00] was a thing you had to deal with, this, this obstacle you had to deal with in the middle of this event. Um, and then maybe a little aftermath, too. Would you, would you talk about that a little bit? Because there's... Again, these things don't always go to plan, right? Where i-
Roger Perez: Um, so I won't drop the name, but I, I will see it as a disrespectful... It was a very disrespectful move is what it was, if I'm being honest with you. He didn't get distracted. He was just being disrespectful. Um, so that's what it ended up being. Um, that instructor is never going to be, uh, given the honor of teaching at our event again, because it is an honor.
Uh, if you- if Master
Riley: Mm-hmm.
Roger Perez: a big event, um, and we pay our instructors. Like, the guys that come, we give them, we pay them a... It's not a lot. It's not like a $2,000 per, you know? But we give them money for their time, and, um, when they teach, they get to teach on the same stage as Master Machado.
That's a 8th degree coral belt. That's, uh, the godfather of jujitsu in, in the Southwest of Texas, and the guy who brought it to Mexico. So I mean, and, and when you think about that Um, and [00:25:00] he asked you, "Hey, would you like to teach, uh, at my event, um, before me or after me?" Um, that's a big deal. There's not too many guys...
And I have guys all the time asking, "Hey, what do I gotta do to teach at this event?" 'Cause you got guys like Globetrotters and, uh, all these other events where as long as you're a black belt, you can volunteer your time and go teach a technique if it fits in the f- the technique flow that they're looking for, you know?
You can do that. You gotta have a little bit of, a little bit of street credibility, but you can do that. Um, you can't do that at our event. We, we, we ask you to come to our event. We ask you to teach. So, um, you know, like I said, Hoist is coming, 'cause Hoist and Carlos have been talking a lot more. You know, they're getting older in age, and they're...
He's connecting a lot more. Him and Pedro are supposed to do something soon. Um, I don't know exactly when. But I mean, like, all these legends are starting to connect together, and I told Carlos, man, now's the time to connect with these guys. His style, your style, Hoist's style, you know, and then we had the brothers camp in the past, and that was the big hit for a long time.
And, you know, I think if [00:26:00] Carlos and Pedro and, and Hoy, Master Hoist, if all these guys got together, man, I mean, like, that's a beautiful thing. But, um, uh, to get back to what you were saying, how do I deal with that? Yeah, I had a lot of upset, uh, customers, as I'll call them. They're not attendee- they are attendees, but they're also our customers, and I just explained to them that I apologize to them, and I just said, at the end of the day, it's his class, and I can't tell him what to do with his class because it's, it's still...
This is just like a jujitsu gym, so we just have to take what we can from it and use the time to drill and, and basically... I, I couldn't take the microphone and say that, obviously. But for the ones that came up to me and said something to me while it was happening, because he literally showed one technique and then just never came back to update, never refine, add nothing, and these guys get, you know, almost an hour session.
So he showed something in the first five minutes and then never came back to show anything else. So I just went around and started walk- And I, and it happened, and I was watching, and I was like, "Okay, it's been 20 minutes and he hasn't come back." And he was just having a conversation with some [00:27:00] other random black belts that he brought with him and just didn't care.
And I was just like, "Huh, this is super weird." So what did I do? I mean, I just, uh, in my own way, without being disrespectful and, and, um, making it public, I just told them, I went around to the guys and I said, "Hey, uh, it doesn't look like he's gonna come back and show anything else, so go ahead and drill any of the other techniques you've learned or you need to work with and just have drilling sessions until he brings you back.
Like, if he's not gonna take control of the class, then make use of the time you have now." Uh, and that's what I did, and I said, "Go let the other guys know too." And then that's what they did. They started going around and that's what we did. A- adapt and overcome. That's all you can really do without making a scene
Riley: So a couple things, just a couple things you said there are really hitting home with me, right? One of them when you said, "I didn't wanna make it public. I didn't wanna say it from the microphone." Because we- you shouldn't, right? When, if it comes to... 'Cause technically at that point, he's, well, he's a contractor is what it would be kinda ca- classified [00:28:00] at if we're in the, the business world.
He's not an employee, he's, he's dropped the ball, and generally, I will tell people in my organization, "Listen, we don't, we don't correct in public. We collect, we correct in private, and we praise in public," right? And is, is that kind of the, what you're, what you're going for there?
Roger Perez: Yeah. Um, n- never, you, you, uh, praise and, you praise in, in public and you, uh, punish in private, praise in public. That's kinda the way I was raised, my military raising. Uh, my Hispanic raising, no. You're gonna get punished, you're gonna get punished in, uh, public, and maybe not so much praised in, uh, the public, but more so praised in private.
So definitely how we were raised. Uh, that is actually a teaching of ours in, in the military, like you never do that to your guys 'cause then any, any great ideas or outward thinking they might have to help the team, then [00:29:00] that gets shrunk and you never, you'll never get that trust back. Or if you do, it's gonna take years and years to get that back.
So I've honestly... That's, I can honestly say Master Machado has been very, very good to me, 'cause I have done things that he didn't like and he told me after the fact. And he waited till the end of the day so that I didn't... He didn't correct me right then and there, uh, so I could still do what I thought was a good job.
He allowed me to perform my job to the best of what I thought was the best of my abilities, and then he told me, "Hey, at this time during this thing, I didn't like you did this," or, "Hey, you missed this." And I was like, "Okay, thank you for letting me know and not..." 'Cause he knows how I am, and that's super important, too.
He knows that if he would've told me right on the spot, it would've shrunken me a little bit and like, dang, now I'm second-guessing myself throughout the rest of the day. And it, and I would probably still have that stone-cold poker face that I normally have when I'm operating, 'cause that's just what I do, but I would've operated just a little bit differently, and he doesn't want that from me.
He wants me to just go out and do what I do. And that part I respect [00:30:00] from him a lot
Riley: The other thing you mentioned in, in what you were saying there was this o- adapt and overcome thing, right? Because sometimes, stuff doesn't work out the way we, we originally thought, right? And we have, like in this, in this instance, there was this extra time that these students had where they're like, "Well, crap. what?" Like, we, we, we're waiting for this thing maybe to happen, but in the meantime, we have this gap of time. And your recommendation to, "Hey, just use it to study other stuff," you know, that happens in business a lot, where waiting for an event or we're waiting for something to happen that, that, man, we're just kind of in this limbo time.
It's like, well, what are you gonna do with that time? think that was cool the way you kinda phrased that. It's just like, well, just use it for, use it to study stuff you learned yesterday or earlier today, or, um, you and your buddies, you know, figure out some way to use this time that's profitable and not [00:31:00] just sit here and wait for this guy to call you back up. You know, that may or may not happen.
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Roger Perez: Yeah. I appreciate that. Yeah, that's... You kinda, you gotta have those things in your pocket. Not that I had it ready [00:32:00] as an answer, 'cause I didn't know this guy was gonna show up and do this. But, I mean, we are doing jujitsu. We do... I did know that they had, you know, I don't know, probably 12 hours, which is 12 different instructors every hour on the hour, of material.
So whatever they're stuck on, go, go refine that, go work that. There's easy money when you have all these people. There's easy money to be made in terms of, like, your jujitsu knowledge when you have all these different black... And that's part of the beauty of our event. You have all these different black belts, purple belts.
Some guys that are purple belts that are probably better than some of the black belts, you know what I mean? Just depending on the levels in the room. But you have all these different minds on the mat, and you start playing and experimenting with things, and that to me, there, that's, and that, that's more than enough value for me to show up to a place.
And, and it's a cool room. Everybody's not trying to kill you in there, and everybody's sharing and everyone's learning. I got Gracie Barra guys, Pedro guys. I got guys from local gyms nearby. I got guys from [00:33:00] the UK, Mexico, uh, Canada. Uh, you know, I got people from all over the US that come to this event. I mean, it's kinda hard.
I don't know of any event in jujitsu like that. I mean, there's starting to be more and more. I think 10th Planet kinda has their thing, but those are primarily 10th Planet guys, you know? But, uh, our event is open to anybody and everybody who wants to show up. Um, we typically have business a- at the event, which we're pulling away from having the business at the event, and we're gonna do 'em, uh, remotely so that people have, can have more of their staff there at the, at the Zoom call, when we do the Zoom, the Zoom event.
And, uh, and then when we do the jujitsu at the actual in, uh, on location in, in, uh, Dallas, Carrollton. So we can just focus on jujitsu and not try to switch our mind from business back to the mat, 'cause it is kinda hard to do for some people. And your body get wo- gets wore down being on the mat all day like that.
And then to say, "Hey, next day after eight hours of jujitsu, you're gonna show up here at 9:00 AM. Yes, I'm gonna give you breakfast, but now you gotta [00:34:00] open up your brain and get those gears spinning," that's not easy to do. Um, it's not. Um, especially the owners. I mean, if you're older, if you're, like, in your 40s, and some of these older guys, some of these, you know, third degrees are, like, getting in their 50s, and they're getting up there, you know?
So it's like, that's harder to do. Like, I'm starting to respect them a lot. The, the older I get, the more I respect the older guy, the gray, the gray on the mat. Because, like, to, to even get up in the morning and get your body going enough to be on the mat to do what we do, man, I, I just, I bow down to them. I respect them
Riley: It's fun, man. I, this, uh, this idea of switching gears in, in your brain, right?
Roger Perez: Mm-hmm.
Riley: just to, just some feedback on that, by the way, that, uh... Well, you know my buddy Jeremy, uh,
Roger Perez: Oh yeah
Riley: on some earlier episodes. They love that business part, man. And other people I talk to do love those, the fact that you incorporate that part into the event.
Roger Perez: Mm-hmm.
Riley: there's, you know, a lot of these guys that come to that own [00:35:00] schools or they own other businesses and, and that kind of stuff can be very valuable. So at least I would encourage you in that at least have something available, whether it be Zoom calls or something else, 'cause that, that's something you guys do, I think, better than any other organization I've been part of. That is, is the business education part,
Roger Perez: Yeah
Riley: everyone goes into... There's that age-old thing of the, the whole, um, oh, what was it? The E-myth, right? Where the, the technician who wants to become a business owner, and jujitsu is, is a perfect example of that, where these, these guys are black belts, sometimes less, but they're, they're good practitioners, but they wanna then start their own school, and they get hit in the face with this freight train of business.
It's a very different art form. And so they may be accomplished practitioners, may be accomplished teachers, but they are not business-minded, and that, that hits hard, right? And so you guys having that as part of the education [00:36:00] process that you provide is, I think, super valuable and, and, and quite unique in that world.
Roger Perez: Yeah, you're, you're right about that. You- everything you said I agree with. Um, I was technically a blue belt when I opened my school. I had a brown belt who started teaching for me, Jeremiah. Um, he's still with me till this day. You know, we've been together the whole time. Um, but I- only reason I decided that I thought I was smart enough to open a jujitsu business was because I had a brown belt who could teach and had more knowledge than I did, so I was covered there.
But I, I, I did a little bit of gun, uh, holster making, uh, in my military time, and I ran a side business doing gun holsters, like Kydex gun holsters. It was something I made. So I understood enough about websites, I understood enough about marketing, I understood enough about sales, taxes, and dealing with the city to get stuff going.
So from that aspect, I knew that I could communicate enough to get, you know, [00:37:00] in front of the right people, market enough to get them through the door, and then figure out a way to get them to pay me. Like, those are the things that are super important to get money flowing, and then me and Jeremiah together, we try to figure out our own way to keep the customer, keep the student engaged and happy and learning and part of our community.
Um, and then that's when we ended up finding Master Machado. Uh, I found him when I was a, just became a blue belt and, um, we, you know, we, I came all the way up from blue all the way to black with him. And joining the association was probably the best thing I could have done for myself, uh, and my jujitsu to be honest with you.
Um, because it, it helped me understand the power of community, it helped me understand the power of, like I already knew the power of curriculum, but with jujitsu it's a little bit different than just teaching someone how to be a plumber. Because once you learn the skills, you do the skills, and then you have the certification, you just keep doing it.
Jujitsu's a little different 'cause you have to keep coming back to those skills. You think you know them, but you don't really have them understood in and out to a level and a [00:38:00] degree where you can now at least call yourself a black belt and then have someone resisting against you and then get the technique on them or turn it into a different technique and weather the storm.
And we, these are all concepts we all understand from being on the mat every day, you know, and training. But ju- being a practitioner and then being a business owner are two wildly different things. And, um- You sparked a thought in my mind because when you said that, I, I, one of the things that I do, uh, for the association is I take a lot of business calls with gym owners.
Actually, with your buddy, uh, Jeremy, right? Um, I, I had a call with him because he needed a little bit of help, uh, at the time with his business and, uh, I do it with the association. I've got second, third, fourth degree black belt school owners who still have trouble filling their mats because they spent a lot of time on the mat and not a lot of time on the business, and those are two separate en- or they're almost two separate functions and two separate, [00:39:00] uh, personalities that you need to have in some regard, uh, depending on the type of person you are.
Uh, that if you do one more than the other, it's a fine balance. I, in one point in my life, I thought, "Hey, I'm gonna work on my business so I don't have to be working inside my business," which if you're a black belt school owner, you have a, a good... Jiu-jitsu's a, a very unique thing. You have a relationship with your students.
If I take off and I'm no longer teaching, I might lose those students 'cause they feel like, "Oh, Professor Roger's not on the mat anymore. I don't wanna train anymore," or, "I, I don't wanna go with this other guy," or whatever, you know? So there's a balance in between and you kinda have to choose. Do you wanna be the guy that's on the mat working on the business, or do you wanna grow the business and then step off the mat and try to find an instructor that's charismatic enough, builds community enough, and then won't take your students away and run away with your students because you're not paying them enough?
So there's a whole... It's a, it's, it can be a lot of drama in jiu-jitsu if you're not careful. Um-
Riley: So a- answer me [00:40:00] this, man. This is, uh, just a thought I had, but
Roger Perez: Sure
Riley: we talk, you talk about, like, the, the plumber or the electrician or the, you know... 'Cause these, these guys have, they have schools, you know, trade school they can go to.
Roger Perez: Yeah
Riley: companies, I know of a, I know of a, um, oh, it's a heating and air company here in, in Boise that has their own school where they'll run people through it, and they can get actually accredited as a, as a HVAC, um, technician, and then move on through their journeyman and their, you know, become they call it, um, when they get their... What do they call that, man? It's, I'm, I'm lo- I'm losing the word. But anyways,
Roger Perez: So it's,
Riley: certified to do their own
Roger Perez: yeah, it's not master level. It's not master plumber, master electrician, master, like, you know, then in the carpentry world there isn't really that, but you have a general contractor, and then you have engineer. So I mean,
Riley: Yeah, yeah.
Roger Perez: okay
Riley: So I feel like you, you mentioned curriculum and, you know, you guys are building out a curriculum,
Roger Perez: Yeah
Riley: I, I feel like [00:41:00] that's one of the things where to become really proficient in a trade generally takes somewhere around 10 years, right? And we, we say the same thing, it b- to become a jujitsu black belt generally takes around 10 years, maybe, maybe 12. but so many schools do this without a curriculum, man, and trades have put curriculums in place ago, I think, I think we're just catching up as far as understanding the value of that in the jujitsu world. It almost gets poo-pooed on sometimes, almost as if it's, it's, uh, not like this pure way of learning.
But crap, man, organizations have done it forever because it's a good way to do it, you know? What, what do you have to say about that?
Roger Perez: Yeah, so anybody who says that having a curriculum's dumb or it's not a good idea, I just don't think they understand curriculum, and I just think that they, they... I think jujitsu, I think some organizations in jujitsu have done curriculum improperly. [00:42:00] And what I mean by that is they use the curriculum as their testing standard, and they just kinda like go through the motions to get belts, and they think of a curriculum as a way to create a belt factory.
And, um, to some degree, I agree with, I agree with this idea that, hey, yeah, maybe they, maybe a certain organization did it a certain way so that you can get through your belts and, yeah, okay. That, that has happened. It's been done poorly. I will say that. However, if you create a minimum standard and a minimum timeline, like a lot of organizations do, um, we have...
And let me, let me, let me start off... Let me back up a little bit. Um, I think that curriculums work for big organizations. It works for a school, too. Like, if you have a school, then the, the mass majority, like 99%, I don't know if that's the exact number, but the majority of people who do jujitsu are not competitors.
The people that once you understand that part and know that your competitors are your outliers, those are your outliers. This is [00:43:00] why they make a big deal with competitors getting their belt on the podium when they won, you know, Worlds or whatever, Pan Ams or whatever. Those guys, once they get the blue belt, they might be a blue belt for one year, and they won their division, so they put a purple belt on them.
He won purple belt, oh, one year again, boom. Again, these guys are training multiple times a day, five, six times a week. So
let's not, let's not, even consider those people. Let's just consider the people that train two to three days a week, your average Joe, y- you know, your average person, your average male.
And I don't even wanna get into age brackets, and then we could talk about income or income levels because that's a whole 'nother thing that I've studied too, is like what is your avatar, the right person that we're even looking to market to if you're a business owner and are wanting to grow your business and provide jujitsu?
So, if we talk about the average group of jujitsu people, you have a curriculum set because they're only training two to three times a week. If I just teach whatever I want and I teach a thing that they're not gonna [00:44:00] be in class for, they're gonna miss something completely, right?
Riley: Right
Roger Perez: However, if I know that they need arm bars, triangles, they need to learn how to, like, do mounted attacks and maybe some sweeps, the question to, the question that I have to ask myself is, "How do I get them enough familiarity?"
Right? They have to be familiar with the position. And then how do I give them enough frequency? Okay, how many times do I show it to them so they become proficient? So familiar- familiarity to me plus frequency equals proficiency Okay, so those are, that's kind of the formula in my mind as a curriculum developer that's always worked for me.
I have to make them familiar, and then I have to give them enough frequency with that familiarity to make them proficient Not expert, but proficient. He can pull off an armbar if it's available to him there. Now, is he gonna take the armbar from this position? Probably not, but he can get there if he, you give him enough opportunities and tries and show...
And you, you go over the technique and the skill [00:45:00] enough in class, right? So having an actual curriculum that maybe focuses on, let's just say closed guard for the month, but I teach you arm... I teach you a, you know, armbar from closed guard. Maybe later on, I teach you how to go armbar to triangle, right? And then if that doesn't work, then I go to a sweep.
Oh, now we're in mount. So now maybe next month, instead of closed guard, I'm talking about mount. We've already had familiarity with armbars and triangles, right? Now I'm gonna add more frequency to the armbar and maybe a mounted triangle, right? So now you've... So do you in jujitsu, but I'm focusing on a specific flow and a specific formula to give this guy attack, the same attack.
But now let's reverse this. Let's say I do this for, like, I do a mount, I do, I do side control, I do half guard. And, and through those positions, I, I end up looking for armbars and triangles, okay? And I do that for six months, and then the next six months, let's just say I... Let's, I'm just, let's make up a curriculum right now.
[00:46:00] Now, the next six months, I'm only gonna focus on armbars all month long. Well, guess what? I just did... I was familiar with them in half guard, I was familiar with them in closed guard, and even in mount, right? So
now, now, I already know it. Now I'm already familiar with them. But now I'm gonna have so much frequency over and over and over in the armbar, and I just follow the arm wherever I- it takes me.
I've had enough familiarity with if I end up in mount, if I end up in bottom closed guard, if I end up in, you know, whatever, all these different positions. So if you do a specific, you know, scheduled curriculum where you know, and better yet, where the student knows you're going to go, now they're buying into what you're teaching.
Now they understand what you request from them, what, what you want to see from them, what they need to perform and demonstrate to you. Now we're on the same page. Just like when you go to college and you want a degree to become, I don't know, a doctor, you know you gotta take biology, you know you gotta take anatomy, you know you gotta do all these [00:47:00] things.
So I already know what I have to do to get this degree, and I already know there's a grading rubric which tells me I have to get the... I have to pr- do this, demonstrate proficiency and understanding of biology by se- at to the degree of 75% success rate. That's my grading rubric. So that's a whole another topic when you talk about jujitsu because now the grading rubric is, okay, if I have a white belt and a blue belt who's doing the same thing, I just need to show you how to do an armbar and maybe escape an armbar.
The blue belt's gotta be able to successfully hit the armbar and transition to, like, a triangle maybe. Where now the purple belt has to be able to, like, escape all those Hit all those and then turning and then roll under and end up in a mount and, like, do two or three chain techniques. And then maybe the grading rubric says if you're going for brown belt, now you'll be able-- Now you need to be able to do all these things just like the purple belt, but be able to teach it back and teach a class and understand it to a level of proficiency where the white belt can do it.
This is, this is in my mind how you [00:48:00] apply curriculum development to jujitsu, and this is something that, um, the mass majority of, of people in jujitsu don't really apply. There are some great minds in jujitsu, by the way, so I'm not dismissing anyone by... But there are, from what I've seen when I've traveled, and I get to travel a lot and go to schools.
If I spend four days in a place and I train there every day, it could be one thing. It could be arm bars one day, then leg locks the next day. And I'm like, "Okay," like, "where's the connection? I don't see it." Um, but to me, I mean, that's something that's missing. And if a student shows up two-- If he shows up on a Monday and a Wednesday and all month long, I'm focusing on closed guard, they're gonna be familiar enough with closed guard that no matter what I teach them there, at least they know what to do.
They know what the requirements and the conditions are from closed guard to be successful there, right?
Riley: This is, this systemizing things, right?
And
Roger Perez: Nie
Riley: to your strengths, man. It's right back into this, this wheelhouse that, that you brought out of the [00:49:00] military. And it's, uh... I think every business owner needs to hear this. I don't care what industry you're in. Could be martial arts, could be realty, could be could be whatever.
Could be HVAC or electricity, you know. But this idea of building systems, building a standard, building a, a continuation of... We always learn best, I think, when there's sort of this nucleus, and then you add a little to it, and add a little to it, and add a little to it. of you got this thing you're learning right here, and then there's this totally unrelated thing over here. There was no connection there. All of a sudden... Yeah, they're so, they're so disconnected, it makes it really hard for the student to learn. And I say student, it could be the employee, it could be whatever, whatever that person is that you're trying to pour into, whatever system you're trying to replicate. You've gotta have some kind of a continuation, some kind of a flow there, or you're really missing the boat, man. You're... Roger, I can think of in my mobile oil change company, I have [00:50:00] everything we do written out step by step. And I would take my daughter when she was 10 years old, I would give her this sheet of paper that had the instructions to fulfill a task, and I would hand it to her and let her go to town.
And if she could do the, the job w- off that piece of paper, I knew it was right. But it would take me several iterations to get it right,
Roger Perez: Yeah
Riley: you know? So that's where I see the value of curriculum, man. And your, like you said, your head's kinda in that 'cause you're in the middle of, of writing a bunch of it right now.
Roger Perez: Yeah
Riley: and I, I hear what you're saying about this. Yeah
some b- some people have done it wrong.
Roger Perez: Yeah
Riley: some people have understood it wrong, right?
Roger Perez: That's the part, is the understanding. Uh, I think once people understand what curriculum, how to apply it, and why it can be useful to the student, right? T- if the black... If, if the gym owner removes themselves and their ego and what they believe to be curriculum out of [00:51:00] it and just think about the student, how much structure, 'cause people crave structure.
Kids crave structure. Adults come to jujitsu, and even though you don't think they want structure, they absolutely want structure. They wanna know what right feels like, and if you don't tell them, they won't know, so they'll feel lost. That's the biggest thing. And in jujitsu, I mean, if there, if you got a guy who's never done any kind of combat sports at all, and you got a bunch of guys in the room who've been choking each other, arm barring each other, just demolishing each other, you know, from a jujitsu perspective, and you got a new guy who comes in, and he's seeing this happen, he wants to know what he can do as quickly as possible to get at least to a respectable level against the other men, you know?
And if the structure of the curriculum is there and there's no question on what they're focused on every single day, and by the way, I'm gonna be doing this for the rest of the month, so I just need to really pay attention to what I'm doing right now. I'm not even gonna worry about the takedowns yet.
I'm not gonna worry about the half guard yet. Like, I'm just focusing on closed guard and arm barring and triangle to the best of my ability all month [00:52:00] long. That's a really simple thing for them to focus on. And then the next month is the next thing, and the next month... And they start to put these pieces of the puzzle together.
Then they slowly start to build those skills and the confidence through that, again, familiar- familiarity and the frequency to hopefully get some kind of, you know, demonstratable, you know, success on the mat. And then you got guys that are staying longer, and that's just it
Riley: That's, that's a, that's a great point, man. 'Cause again, this Guys, we're talking jujitsu, but hear, hear, hear this out. This is, this stuff goes into your business too, whether it
be jujitsu or not. And an employee who comes into a business needs to feel like they're contributing. They need to feel that dignity of the, that the things they do on a day-to-day basis have a real effect on, on the business and the world around them.
And if they don't, man, they're not gonna last very long. If they're just in there turning wrenches and they're, [00:53:00] they don't see the results of that as a, as a positive thing, they're, they're gonna get bored with that pretty quick
Roger Perez: Yeah, so I can contribute to this con- this part of the conversation and not even mention jujitsu. You just talk about mission. Why, why you do what you do. Like for me, I know providing martial arts to as many kids and family as I can to help them become better versions of themselves in their environments.
Like, that's just it, and my staff knows that. So if we're talking, doesn't matter if we're talking about your mobile oil change company and you tell your guys, "Hey, like, your job's super important." Like, these people are so busy that they can't even bring the car to, to be, to this, you know, lube station. So you going to them and helping them keeps that soccer mom with her kids, uh, able to feed her husband and provide, provide for their family and do what they need to do.
So, like, you coming and helping them is relieving such a high level of stress. I don't know what the mission statement is to that. Making every day easier one o- one oil change at a time, or whatever catchy, you know, thing you wanna put. But like, understanding that's a big, that's a... If I could have [00:54:00] someone come to my house and change my oil, I know me and my wife work from home, so she's right over here on the other side of this computer.
We have a off- a work home office, and I do things and, and change the oil for her. But if I had somebody who could come over here for me and do that, that would relieve a big stress to me. So that person to me is very valuable, that keeps entrepreneurs doing what they're doing. So it's not just jujitsu. Um, it's definitely if they understand the mission and why they're doing, why what they do matters, and how they impact everyb- everyb- people's, people's everyday lives, that's huge.
That makes me feel good just hearing that. I don't even change oil, you know? So
Riley: Well, it's, it's funny, man, 'cause you, you wanna hear what the, what the, the little catchphrase is we use around here?
Roger Perez: Yeah, absolutely
Riley: ma- make it easy. That's what... That's it.
Roger Perez: Oh, that's a good one. I mean, that's what you're doing
Riley: dude, 'cause we... Yeah, it's... And, and that's how my guys get to make their decisions. It's like, if you have a, a function within my company and you see a way to make it easier for
Roger Perez: Yeah. Do it
Riley: then you have [00:55:00] permission to Do it dude.
Roger Perez: Yeah
Riley: like, yeah, if it's... That's, that's the whole underlying thing is our business exists to make it easy. And so it makes it, it makes it easy for me as the owner to go, here's where you have, again, permission to make decisions. Without even consulting me, just make it easy." And then all of a sudden they go, "Crap.
Okay, I can do that."
Roger Perez: Huh. So that's interesting. You have-- So you guys have like a van or a truck and multiple filters, multiple, like, do you have... Okay, so I'd imagine you have to schedule this stuff and they kind of load them on the day before, 'cause it's way too many models and filters to hold in the truck at once, right?
Riley: Uh, y- y- sorta. Yeah, some things are that way. Yeah, the technicality of it is most, most stuff we have on board the truck. We have big trucks, right? They're, they're 16-foot box trucks, and so they,
Roger Perez: Okay
Riley: they hold a lot of stuff. But Yeah. if somebody needs a set of tires, we don't have a bunch of tires on that truck.
We
Roger Perez: Yeah.
Riley: and...
Roger Perez: Windshield wipers too?
Riley: street, so
Roger Perez: Okay.
Riley: go [00:56:00] pick 'em up.
Roger Perez: That's, that's awesome. That, that... Hmm, that's very cool. I never even thought about that kind of service. That's... I have a mobile mechanic who comes and does random stuff for me, and I'm sure he could change my oil, but he doesn't have all that stuff in his truck. I'd have to schedule it and tell him, so I was just curious.
I was nerding out there for a second on the,
Riley: No, we have a
Roger Perez: of that
Riley: You, you, you'd probably be actually quite... You would quite nerd out on it. It's, it's a slick, well-oiled machine, no pun intended there, man. We've... But I put almost 20 years into this business, right?
Roger Perez: Oh, wow
Riley: and polishing and building, building these systems out and, and I, I get all... I get a lot of satisfaction out of this idea that when I hire someone for a new position, give them their little business manual, and it's like, you know, five sheets of paper that tells them exactly what their function is
Roger Perez: Hmm.
Riley: where their boundary is. So one of the, of the things I make sure happen in both of my businesses is no, no one overlaps. So everyone has a job, so everything's taken care of, but [00:57:00] there's a boundary between those people, and that, that creates a situation where no one can say, "Well, he... I thought he was gonna do it." It's like, "No, that's on your sheet, man. That one's your job, and so you're accountable for that, and, and you dropped the ball, not him."
So, uh, Yeah
it's a beautiful thing Yeah. Don't wanna go down that path too often much here, but I think, yeah, you would probably get a kick out of seeing how it's, how it's ran. It's, it's a, it's a big deal. Um, Roger, you're, you are... got this... So you, you run a, a martial arts school yourself, and you have this job with Carlos, right?
I, I want you to talk about how you delegate, for one, because, 'cause there are times when you cannot be at your own school to teach, right? You're, you're doing the spring or, or, or fall camps. You're, you're doing other stuff with Carlos. You also help with his podcast, which is, is wild, is a whole nother thing. Um, [00:58:00] but delegation, man. When you're, when you're looking at... There's this weird balance in jujitsu where your employees are often your students, or almost always your students also, so they're a customer and they're an employee, and you've got to find these folks who you can trust, you mentioned earlier, that will bring some, uh, charisma to a class and be able to teach people clearly and, and have that skill set, but also are loyal and won't be running off with, with your students.
So what, what do you look for in somebody when you're
Roger Perez: Yeah, so
Riley: that up?
Roger Perez: that's not a easy process, if I'm gonna be honest. You can... In my area, there weren't just random school that I can go hire guys. So it's taken me, like I said, almost six years now. Um, I have one or two purple belts, you know. My son's a purple belt, you know. He helps me a lot. He's 18. Um, but I've got staff.
I mean, I got a front desk lady who runs everything for me. Um, I'm constant [00:59:00] communication. I got a Facebook Messenger group, and I use Facebook because you can upload large videos and things like that. Um, I guess you could use WhatsApp. I wouldn't use text. You can text for quick things directly, but, uh, I use...
And, and the reason why I use this, I say this is, is important because when I am gone, um... Let me back up. Let me back up. Um, it's taken me years to find the right type of people to be coaches that I know are coachable but still can coach other people. Um, like one of the, one of my guys that covers for me is, uh, Coach Joe, Joe Cameron.
Uh, he's done some pastoral type work. He's worked on a radio, in a radio station as the radio DJ guy. So to me, I, he, I, as soon as I met him, I was like, "Huh, so that's a guy who's gotta work alone. He's gotta be able to do things all by himself." If you're running a radio station, you're putting on music, you're probably taking sponsors, you're connecting with people, you're going out in the community, and you're, you're doing outreach.
You know, you're doing commercials. [01:00:00] That's what radio DJs do. If he's a guy who's heavily involved in his church and he's doing some of the, leading some of the men's groups, okay, this is the guy who is a gatherer of people and able to communicate. Super important. Um, and then I have Darby, who's one of my purple belts.
He's been with me since day one, came all the way up, so I know exactly how he rolls. I know exactly how he talks and teaches. Southern from Mississippi, kind of a transplant here in Texas, very respectful, respected by the people. And then I got an older guy who's John, who's been a kids coach his whole life, and he deals with my four to six-year-olds, and he helps me with the counter as well, and deals with parents So these are people that I selected that weren't the most athletic, they were not the most gifted, but they were the best communicators, they followed directions the best, and I've developed...
You know, I've taken them out for lunches, and I've helped them with things. You know, in jujitsu, lines can get very blurred between, uh, supervisor and friendship and student if you're not careful. And one of the things that I did right away is I [01:01:00] told them, "Hey, I will pay you for your time teaching. I will not exchange tuition for I pay...
You pay your tuition, and I'm gonna pay your salary or your hourly," whatever's agreed upon. And that keeps
Riley: Correct
Roger Perez: keeps equal exchange and equal expectation because if I'm taking... If I just remove the tuition and I only need him to teach one time, that means he only worked for me like two hours, right?
So maybe I need him to work more, and he's doing something else, right? And because there's no money, right? So the... I've done that in the past, and it didn't work out for me, and I've seen other academy owners try to do that, and it ended up causing problems because now there was a level of, "Oh, you're an employee, I need you to do this," but you don't pay him Well, I pay you in tuition.
Like, no, there's nothing exchanged here, guys. There needs to be some tangible form of exchange because now we are doing business together. We're not family, so I'm not doing anything for you for free, and the business isn't supporting you [01:02:00] financially. So in my eyes, to keep things clean and expectations clear, you pay your tuition, I pay you your salary.
And then if you can't work or you don't wanna work for whatever reason, that's fine. Okay. You just keep paying and I just... I won't pay you for your time. And that's fine. And, and this developed into a beautiful thing for me because now my coaches understand that, hey, I still need to pay tuition, and then I...
They're... I'm gonna get paid in exchange. Um, I've also been very blessed to have what I call junior coaches. I've had some young girls that are teens now that have started with me since they're four. Now they're older and they, they kinda help with the little four to six year olds. They're not coaches, but they really help, help them with the techniques and things like that, and they get a small little salary too.
You know, they get paid minimum wage, just not much, to be honest. It's like 80 bucks for the month or something like that. But they're happy to do it, and for a 13-year-old, 80 bucks goes a long way for them, you know? And they're in the academy and they're helping on the mat. So these are things that have grown over time, and I do, I do have a sheet that I made them fill like a, [01:03:00] basically like a...
In the military, we have, you know, an agreement when they come on, when they, when we join as an instructor. We have a character contract, basically is what I like to call it, and you basically have to sign that, you know, you won't do this, you won't say that, you will wear this, you will show up on time, you know, and then the responsibilities.
So the clear expectations are drawn. They know when class is over. Like, I don't ever clean the mats unless I wanna clean the mats, and I like to blow off the mats. Joe likes to spray them, and John likes to wipe 'em. But they know if I'm not around, these are the things that have to get done. And if I'm not there, somebody...
Everybody knows if there's an introductory class, like an intro, Coach Joe does the intros, Coach John does the behind the counter and he sells 'em, and Cr- and, and Christina does all the uniform stuff and gets them all signed and gets them all the uniforms. So, like, there is a process, but they all know how to do each other's jobs, and they all know how to sign people up.
They all know how to do [01:04:00] intros, and that's the only way my crazy little operation works, is because they all overlap in their skill abilities and, and knowledge Now, um, me being gone, I tell them ahead of time. I schedule things with Carlos, like I already know I have to film Monday, so they already know.
Joe already knows. He's running class and he already knows 'cause we have as- association as Machada Method website where the curriculum is, and he's one of my students, so he's in my account. He can see what we're working on. And by the way, all my students know what we're working on, so Joe's just gonna keep teaching everything that I've been working on and teaching because he's got the same video access that has Master Machada showing the techniques and everything there.
So that's how it works for me, is I have that curriculum. I've got those SOPs. I've built those relationships over time. I have those clear expectations, and more importantly, the clear understanding of what I'm giving them and what they're giving me. That's super important[01:05:00]
Riley: Do you, remind them periodically about that arrangement? 'Cause I think that's something that we do as business owners, is we think that we should just be able to say something one time, and then we just coast for years after that sometimes without ever bringing it back up. And, uh, oh, oh, a, as an example, you know, do you, do you remind your staff that this is the arrangement? Here is... You're gonna continue to pay tuition, and I'm gonna continue to pay you for your time so that we don't get those roles confused, and so that when I call you in as an employee, there's a clear expectation there versus calling you in as a volunteer, 'cause that would be a very different expectation, right?
Do you ever remind your staff of that?
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Roger Perez: So I don't have to have any hard conversations like that anymore. In the beginning I did because I wasn't clear enough. I wasn't, I wasn't constant enough in my communication. And what I mean by constant in communication is like, uh, at the end of the month, 'cause I, I hand them their paycheck. I physically hand them a paycheck, and it's in an envelope, and it's got their name on it, and I tell them, "Hey, I really appreciate your help, and I appreciate you helping me with the business and growing it because you know what we're trying to do."
And they know we're trying to get to 300 students in the next two years. Like that's... And we're actually moving locations at the end of this, at the end of July to a [01:07:00] 7,200 square foot facility, and we're gonna have two mats, and I'm gonna have a summer camp and after school program. Like, I'm trying to grow this thing.
And Joe knows m- my, my why. They all understand the mission. His daughters have come up in the program, and his daughters have become, you know, beautiful, confident young ladies. John had a shy little kid, and John's very ingrained. So the people that I have in my business working with me are invested in it 'cause they understand the mission is to grow and, you know, serve as many people as we can.
Now, to answer your question, every end of the... At the end of the month, I, I thank them, I hand them the check and I say, "Hey, thank you. I appreciate you. Um, next month we're gonna need to work on this. Next month we need to work on that." And I do have regular conversations with them individually on, "Hey, you did this really well," or, "Hey, we need to work on this."
And like recently, John's taken over the counter, so he's learning how to use, uh... We use a, uh, we use a company called Modus Mission that has a, a communication funnel that has, you know, your [01:08:00] Instagram, your Facebook. It has it all in one place, and all the leads from the website, it all goes to one place. So I just basically told him, I was like, "Hey, I know you're new at this, and you did good at this, but you need to work on this, this and this, and you need to get on the mat more often because you're, you're hiding behind the counter."
So he's... 'Cause he likes to stay back and he's focusing on the business, but he's, again, he's a blue belt, so for the sake of the business and the sake of his training, I need you to get back on the mat more often.
Riley: Mm-hmm.
Roger Perez: Um, same thing. So I, I don't, um... I guess I'm blessed because everybody knows the ag- arrangement, and it's been very clear from the beginning.
I will never have to tell them that, "Hey, you're, you're paying for your tuition," and, "Hey, I'm paying you for your time." Like, they're doing what they're doing, and I'm doing what I'm doing, and that's, that's good. Now, I have had guys approach me and ask me for a raise. I open... I have those conversations. I welcome them with, with open arms and, and to me, justify to me why you believe you, you need a raise.
You know? Tell me why. Tell me what you're doing extra or why, or why. And, uh, if it's good, like one guy approached me about a raise and I [01:09:00] said, "Yeah, you know, you're right. You know, I'm, I'm gonna give you a raise. However, you need to wait till after we move 'cause that's gonna be expensive. And, uh, I'm not financially set up right now to do that."
So, um, I just have honest and clear conversations with them because, uh, I know... I'm intelligent enough to know that I can't do it alone. Uh, and I'm not greedy enough to know that... I'm, I'm not greedy enough to think that if I just pay, if I just get rid of them, I'll just do it myself. It's just not, it's not worth it to me.
You, you need a couple village elders to raise the village, and those are my village elders, so to speak, you know
Riley: Yeah, man. Yeah, you mentioned that you don't have hard conversations about that very often, and one of the things I do, again, in the, in the Mobile Oil Change especially 'cause, know, SALT's at the point right now where it's basically just my wife and I doing, doing it, so got those things in mind, but the other, the other company's just much more established, right?
And so
Roger Perez: Mm-hmm.
Riley: we've got employees there and those kind of things. But what I do i- in the, in the weekly meetings, [01:10:00] I always go over a core value, right? And I, I just talk on this, and I just kinda, kinda tell stories or I'll bring up an example of where someone exhibited one of those core values, um, during the, the previous week.
And so we're having those conversations on a regular basis where it's like, "Hey, man, this is our core value." We call one of them breathing room, right? And so you, you set up this schedule where you had this project, say it was a brake job, and you knew there was a potential that you had this, um, oh, you could have issues with it. I love the fact that you scheduled an extra hour in between that and your next appointment. You created some breathing room. That's something that we like to do, so that you had plenty of time to focus on the first customer's job, get it done, even with the potential problems, and finish that thing out in that setting before you had to move on to your next one.
You did a great job. This is a, this is a cool thing. Thank you for doing that. So they get their praise, they get to learn something about the company, and [01:11:00] they get that dignity of like, "Oh, okay, I can make decisions based on that core value." And it-- think it seems to really help. And then I don't have to have the card- the hard conversations hardly ever because we have addressed that during those meetings where, man,
Roger Perez: Hear positive reinforcement and public praise That's good. I like that
Riley: how that, how that achieves all that stuff in just one little talk, right? And then I talk on it literally five minutes. That's, that's all I give myself during a meeting to talk on this core value. But I generally walk in there with something that happened the week before where I go, "Hey, man, this happened. This was a perfect representation of what this core value means. job, Brendan. You did a you did a good thing." The rest of the team looks at it and goes, "Oh, crap. Yeah, that was cool."
Roger Perez: Yeah.
Riley: and,
Roger Perez: We do that with the kids, you know? We do it with the kids on, on the mat. Um, probably not as much with the adults when I think about the public praise thing. Um, but kids get, get public praise right at the [01:12:00] end of class when they're all lined up in front of their peers, you know? And you're doing that with your employees.
I think that's super powerful. It might not seem like much, you know. Um, being in the military, they give you certificates and ribbons and decorations and stuff like that, and that's kinda cool, I guess, if you're into that kind of thing. But I think, um, publicly praising people in front of their peers is, like, super powerful 'cause it reinforces that positive behavior, right?
And, uh,
Riley: Yeah, for sure
Roger Perez: yeah, I mean, that, that's great. I like that. Good job on that, man.
Riley: No, it's just, it's something I totally stole, right? I, I, I g- I, I stole that from,
Roger Perez: But you're doing it
Riley: I, I think it was Dave Rants. But we're doing it, and we're doing it faithfully. We've been doing it for 15 years, man. It's, it's That meeting happens every week, and we do the same thing. But it's, it's one of those things I think the, the team looks forward to, and it's, it's, uh,
Roger Perez: You're implementing, man, because how many self-help books have you read and just forgotten about? Or said, "I'm gonna do that," and then, like, didn't do something, anything. Like, I, I think we're all gonna be guilty of it as entrepreneurs 'cause how many, h- [01:13:00] how many self-help books or, you know, quick fix this or how to get to do that and then like, "Oh, yeah, I'm gonna do that.
Oh, yeah, I'm gonna do that." And you collect all these things, and then something's gonna fall off the plate. So those things right there to create... 'Cause you're in the customer service, you're in the customer service industry is what you are. You could say I'm an oil change, but really if they, if your oil change guys look like, excuse my language, like crackheads or they look like they might steal something out of the, out of the glove box, I mean, if they're rude, if they're not, you know, um, pleasant to be around, you're not gonna...
You're gonna lose customers, man. So picking the right people's super important. Um, I gotta give a shout-out to Duane Spires. Um, and he has a after school and summer camp program coaching business. One of the things they talk about highly, they tout this highly and, and they say hiring rock stars. Finding and hiring rock stars.
And they, they literally will go... Like Duane has told me stories or examples of where he's out getting a coffee or out doing whatever, and [01:14:00] this person might not know anything about summer camp and after school, but if this person was, like, delightful to be around, positive, energetic, super respectful, super helpful, thoughtful, like anything, have good energy, he'd offer them a job.
"Hey, if... Here, here's my card. In the summertime, if you wanna come over, I'm doing this thing. You know, you can work part-time if you want, but I really like your energy. If you'd want to, if you wanna give it a go, here's my card. I'd really love to hire you an opport- I'll give you opportunity." So, like, just, just initial impre- like first impressions are super important.
Uh, I just wanna bring that up 'cause I, I'm sure you spent some time finding the right people for your company. 'Cause especially being a small company, you can't just hire anyone and everyone and fill a slot. So that's super important
Riley: Yeah
Roger, I tell, I tell, we have this absolutely insane interview process. To, to get hired with our company, it's, it's almost, it's almost, it, it... I don't know, it's, it's insane because they, they, they have, [01:15:00] it's like eight or nine separate types of interviews
Roger Perez: Mm-hmm.
Riley: where they come through and there's this long process and we, we make them jump through some hoops and uh, it's a thing.
But by the time we get to the end of it, man, we, we know for sure that we have people really motivated to, to work in our system. And it's wild, man. Like, in our company, our guys start on their first job at 5:00 in the morning, earlier, right? And so that's one of the first interviews is like, "Hey, yeah, I'm gonna sit...
I'm gonna do the coffee shop interview where we just kinda talk to each other and make sure I can at least have a conversation with you and you can put words together." The
Roger Perez: Oh
Riley: is, "I'm gonna ask you to show up at my truck at 4:30 in the morning, and I'm gonna see how you do at getting out of bed, because this is an everyday thing,"
Roger Perez: Yeah.
Riley: here
Roger Perez: Yeah
Riley: then, and then, you know, when it, it actually ends with an interview with their, with their spouse if they have one. know, it's where
Roger Perez: [01:16:00] Oh.
Riley: and take them to dinner and it's, you know, it's like seven or eight interviews, nine interviews in.
Roger Perez: Hmm.
Riley: But we've had a lot of time with this person, then we sit down with their spouse, and we tell their spouse what life's gonna look like if they come to work for us. Uh, he's gonna be leaving home at 4:00 in the morning every morning because he has to be to his first job at, at 5:00. Can you handle that? Do you think he can handle that? You know, and so it's, it's, it's wild. It's... But it, man, it filters out. I mean, it took me a year and a half to hire two guys, but we got there, and they've been with me for seven, eight years now, and
Roger Perez: Oh, wow. Yeah
Riley: dudes, you know, and that we get along so well.
But, man, it was a process.
Roger Perez: I bet.
Riley: yeah. And i-it... what it reminds me of is, you know, back to, back to hiring people for your jujitsu school, right? By the time you get up to a purple belt, they've been with you for five to seven years,
Roger Perez: Yeah.
Riley: you know this person well, right?
Roger Perez: Yeah
Riley: It happens where someone will move into town and maybe they're already a purple belt [01:17:00] and, you know, but, but generally you've trained these people up.
So
Roger Perez: Yeah
Riley: interview, this long interview process
Roger Perez: Yeah.
Riley: You, you know these people.
Roger Perez: Yeah, that's exactly right. That's exactly right
Riley: Gosh, man. talk about this. You're, y-you talked about working with Carlos, right?
Roger Perez: Yeah
Riley: as, as a mentor, right?
Roger Perez: Yeah
Riley: And Roger, I see you doing that too, 'cause, you know, you and I sat down, we, we talked about some things over dinner, um, here a few months ago. You sat down with my friend Jeremy, you por- you poured into him and, and gave him some business advice, and you, you played that mentor role also.
Roger Perez: Mm-hmm.
Riley: I imagine just knowing you that that happens on a regular basis. Sounds like that's a, that's a thing you do with people. So, so talk about being a mentor, what it's like from that end
Roger Perez: Yeah. So, you know, I've, I've been, I've been very blessed to have terrible leadership when I [01:18:00] very first joined the military. The worst time of my life. I wanted to get out right away. I hated it. I was like, "What did I, what did I do? Well, why am I here? What, who let me make this decision?" You know? And I'll never forget my very f- my, like, third supervisor.
His name's, uh, Dave Sadison. Uh, he's a little bit, little bit of an oddball but, like, asked me what I wanted to do and why I wanted to do it, and then that's all he asked me. It wasn't until, like, two or three months later that he asked me... I, I asked him, I said, "Hey, you asked me what I wanted to do and, and, like, why.
Like, but, but I don't understand, like, why the conversation ended there." He just said... And then he said, uh, "Well, I just wanted to know what I needed to do to help you. Like, if I'm your supervisor, I have to know how to help you, and I need to know, I needed to understand why you think the way you think and you're geared up the way you are."
I said, "Okay." And, uh, once, once I understood that and I said, "Okay, so this guy wants to actually help me, so I'm gonna tell him what I wanna do and why I [01:19:00] wanna do it," and then what I... And the, the more important thing that he told me was is, "After you told me what you want to do and why you wanna do it," he said, "I'm gonna set a couple things, I'm gonna set a couple things in motion for you.
Then you need to tell me what you've actually done to help yourself to get yourself closer to that goal." So once I understood that simple process in my head, um, I went through the military and went through some leadership cl- schools and some leadership classes and had some command. Later on I reached, I re- reached a level of, um, I guess rank where now I work for commanders and generals.
And once I quickly realized that the higher you go in an organization or in a company, the less you really know about what's happening on the ground level of the company And I realized really quick I'm in a unique position where I'm still... I'm high enough that I can reach the top and talk to him and let him know what's going on, but I'm low enough that I can still check on the guys, and I'm still one of the guys, so I can still connect with them.
So I had a, I [01:20:00] had a pulse on what's going on. Once I understood that importance of that position and that role, that I can create change for the positive, I can also feed information to leadership to kind of help them know what's going on so they can do what they need to do to help the workers do what they...
get the mission done. Okay? So that, that is, was a very... And it, it wasn't until, like, my 15th year in the military where I started getting into those positions where now I'm working for, for those generals and those commanders. Once I understood my position, then I understood how I needed to position myself and my messaging to those people, to the generals and leaders.
Messaging is super important. Um, timing is even more important with that. And then, um, just making sure I understood what they wanted from me, 'cause now I'm in the position where I need to know what they want. How do I help them get to their goal? 'Cause if I just tell you everything I know because I'm some kind of, like, know-it-all or I think I know what's going on, I could be wasting this guy's time.[01:21:00]
So taking that knowledge and that skill just of understanding situations and leadership, that's when I started really, like, becoming a better, I guess, asset to the people around me in jujitsu. And what I mean by that is, like, I've... When I first opened my business, I'd get, you know, pay for mentorship or whatever, and these guys would just spew all their knowledge on me, and I'm like, okay, this is like they vomited all this information on me.
I don't even know where to start, where to start now.
Riley: Yeah
Roger Perez: whenever I'm talking to guys, I, I try to figure out where they're at financially, 'cause that's the most important thing to keep the doors open, and then where they're at on the mat. Like, how many instructors they have? Is it a one-man show? Like, what capacity do they have is the next thing, right?
Where are they at? Are they able to survive? What capacity do they have financially? Do they have another job or is this their only gig? 'Cause that could determine a lot of things on whether they can start paying for marketing or start getting, paying for a website or whatever, [01:22:00] hire another instructor.
And then I need to real- And then I need to figure out, okay, where do I wanna get them? Like, oh, I need to get... I would like to have 100 students. Why 100 students? Why that number? Oh, that means I can get this. Well, no, we actually need to look at your pricing. Okay, can you charge that much? No, I can't. Well, why?
What's the gym look like? Is it clean? Does... You know. So I start asking all these investigative-type questions. But again, like, being a mentor to business owners is much different than being a mentor to, like, Master Machado, 'cause those are two different levels of, like... We're talking about two different things here.
Helping a gym owner, I own a gym, so I run... I, and I have staff, so I know all those pains in and out Very well. I know those. Being a mentor, a, a servant leader, I'm not a mentor to Master Machado. I think I'm a servant leader because I, I do give him advice on things. He does ask me for counsel, but I, uh, I understand every single day of my life that I work for him, so I need to serve him.
And so servant
Riley: switched with him, right? You're... [01:23:00] He, he mentors you more probably,
Roger Perez: Yeah. Mm-hmm
Riley: Not that you don't, you guys don't have some back and forth, 'cause there's, areas where you're gifted that he's not. And I, I've watched that in person, right? Where I'm like, "Oh, man, yeah, that's... I see Roger in that," or, "I see Carlos in that," you
Roger Perez: Yeah
Riley: I'm sitting here having a conversation with you about something. I'm like, "Oh, there's, there's Carlos's influence right there. I see it."
Roger Perez: Yeah
Riley: know? And, and, uh, yeah. Yeah, that was kind of a... that's a neat thing, man, that you have both those. You have a mentor, but the, always a back and forth, right?
Roger Perez: Mm-hmm. Yeah, absolutely. And, and that's, that's a fine line that I need to... It's, it's, as long as we have clear understanding of I, everything that I do is to benefit, help, or improve, with tact of course. Um, Carlos has no ego, and I, I don't think I have one when it comes to him. I do, we just talk and we communicate, and I ask him what he wants to do, [01:24:00] and then I think about the best way or the best people or the timing on how to get him there.
Those are the things that I focus on. The same thing with the school owners. A little bit more intricate with school owners. There's a lot of more leverage to pull and switches to, to, to, to touch and knobs to turn with those guys and their systems and their business. Um, so it's a more black and white with the school owner 'cause they only got what they got.
With Carlos, there's a lot more 'cause now I'm dealing with an association, relationships, multiple black belts, egos, where, you know, there's a, there's a lot. I don't like to say egos with black belts, but sometimes I found out, unfortunately, there is a lot of that going on still.
Riley: For
Roger Perez: And, uh, but it's, um, honestly, I don't know, I don't know what I'd do if I wasn't just doing this.
I love what I do, you know? That's, that's just it.
Riley: Yeah. There's a, there's an interesting kind of underlying thing that you're talking about here that I, I want the audience to catch on to, there's this, you know, definitely in the relationship between you and Carlos, you could, you could [01:25:00] see where, you know, Carlos is older, he's more advanced in the jujitsu world.
He's, he's got the... He's the owner of the association, so you could say, yeah, Carlos is the mentor there. But when I was down there for, uh, to record the episode of his, on his podcast, right?
Roger Perez: Mm-hmm.
Riley: I would watch Carlos ask advice of you in a lot of situations. That happened more than once while I was down there, where he's like, "Hey, Roger, what are we doing here?"
You know, "What would you suggest we do for this?" And, and he had asked you those kind of things because... So now he's coming to you for advice, and I, I thought that as far as just a leadership principle, man,
Roger Perez: Yeah
Riley: you delegate to someone, which he's delegated to you all these responsibilities, he is now trusting, because of your track record,
Roger Perez: Yes
Riley: at that than he is, you know?
And when it comes to what's going on in this, in, in this sector, in Roger's sector, Roger's the man to ask. And yes, Carlos is ultimately responsible [01:26:00] for it and ultimately owner of all the stuff, and he's the head of it, he's still asking advice of the man he put in charge for it. And I... Man, business owners, take that because your people, generally, they know what's going on on the ground more than you do, and you should be asking their advice
Roger Perez: Yeah, so I guess the, the tangible, like, you gave me some good examples, but, like, if you're paying me to produce your podcast, we'll give that example, because that's exactly what you are, let me do the thinking, let me do my job, and you just show up and be a host, ask questions, be charismatic, and look good on the camera.
Like, that is literally a conversation Carl and I said, can, I have had. Um, when it comes to, like, jujitsu curriculum, I might organize certain things, but I'm not, I'm not picking the exact techniques. I'm not telling him to fix his techniques. I might say, "Hey, can we do it again? Because I didn't get your feet in the camera angle or whatever."
But, like, in terms of, like, what goes where and why, or what grip or which attack after th- like, that's all him. That's, that's his expertise. Now, organizing [01:27:00] it to a flow and that he signs off on, that's all him, right? I might organize things and put them in front of him and give him the options, but, um, definitely we, we feed off each other in that regard.
But I guess the moral of the story is, if you hire someone to do something, let them do it and give them the capacity to fail a little bit so that you can make them, I don't wanna say perfect, but as close as perfect as you can, so you can get your money out of them, and then hopefully they'll do such a good job that you start asking them questions and asking them for feedback.
'Cause that's what Carl has done with me, is I understand what he wants, and I know what his right looks like, so I chase that, and he trusts that enough that he just comes back to me and asks me, "Hey, what do you think? Hey, what do you think?" So that's, that's what I would say if you're a business owner. Let your people do what you pay them for
Riley: Yeah. Yeah, let them learn with it. There's, there's some education we receive through those, those failures, right? Now we never, never delegate to the extent that somebody, if they failed, could take our business out. We delegate to the extent that if they [01:28:00] fail, they learn, right? And they'll sudden-
Roger Perez: Fail forward.
Riley: of hard knocks a little bit, right?
Roger Perez: Yeah
Riley: uh... But we all, we all have to do it. One of the things I've found, and you tell me if you've experienced this too, Roger, that if, if one of my guys messes something up I will go to them and say, "Hey, man, this is a problem. This is where the error happened. Now I expect you to fix it." And what I have found is my tendency is wanting to just go fix it. But if I don't allow them to fix the thing that they broke, there's, there's something stripped, and all of a sudden, you know, they're-- One, they'll become entitled to that, like, "Well, Riley will just fix it," which is-- just blew my whole plan of delegation away. The other thing that happens is they feel like I don't trust them enough to let them fix it. And I think that's probably the big thing that business owners screw up is, is not allowing our people to fix their own mistakes, [01:29:00] and so we strip them of dignity, and that'll-- man, I think that'll discourage a person more than anything
Roger Perez: Yeah, the learning moment has to happen, otherwise they won't appreciate it and they won't recognize it, and they'll make the same mistake again, and you'll just be frustrated for not, for not allowing that, like you said, space. There's a space in leadership too, um, and you as a leader have to give them the opportunity to fail, but not catastrophically fail.
I think that's super important to mention. But fail forward. Like, "Hey, this didn't happen. It turned out okay, but it could've been much better if we just did this," right? And then let them- letting them fix it themselves is probably even more important, 'cause they feel like they're a part of the solution.
So that is a super important point that you made, for sure. I agree with that
Riley: Yeah, I, I, it's funny because I was, I was 20 years into leadership before I figured
Roger Perez: Yeah
Riley: out. And then finally one day I just was, you know, we had this problem, and it was a, it was a significant problem. It wasn't a business failure level problem, but it was a, it was a could possibly lose a [01:30:00] customer level of failure. And one of my guys had, had just did a thing wrong, and it caused a leak on the guy's truck. and, you know, it was 7:00 in the evening when I got this call, and, and my technician had been home for a couple hours already, and, you know, he was, he was home relaxing in his PJs, and I had to make a phone call and say, "Hey, man, you gotta go out there right now and fix that thing." And my temptation was to go do it for him, but I didn't. And later he, he thanked me for it. He's like, "Man, I appreciate you and trusting me to go out and get that, that thing repaired." And thought, "Crap, man, that was a lesson for me as a leader," just like, man, I, I need to give them the dignity. They, they gotta clean up their own mess. Yeah.
Roger Perez: Yeah
Riley: That's awesome, man. Well, Roger, I, um, generally about this point in the podcast switch gears here a little bit and I start
Roger Perez: Sure
Riley: to know you questions and, and, uh, go into that if, if, if you're game.
Roger Perez: Yeah, absolutely
Riley: So when, uh... On th- this [01:31:00] podcast, we, we use our tagline from Salty Electrolytes, the, uh, go, go earn your salt, right?
It's called the Go Earn Your Salt podcast. When you hear that phrase, what, what comes to mind?
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So what did we do? You guessed it. [01:32:00] We added zinc. Every ingredient in our formula is paired with its counterpart. Authentic SALT Electrolytes is the only electrolyte drink that prioritizes counterparts. Get some for yourself today at saltelectrolytes.com and feel what proper counterparts can do for you.
Go earn your salt
Roger Perez: I mean, for me, go earn your SALT is like, did you put it... I talk about tables, the high end and the low end of the table. Did you go out and do the best you could for the day? That's it. And for me, it's on the mat. Did I go do it myself? Did I teach the best I could? Did I connect enough with enough people?
And did I make an improvement in the people, my students' lives? That to me is earning my SALT
Riley: Beautiful, man. Roger, outside of jujitsu, what is your favorite pastime?[01:33:00]
Roger Perez: Music.
Riley: Yeah?
Roger Perez: yeah, without music there's no life for me. Um, my wife and I, uh, we like to go to concerts. I'm a big music nerd. Um, I used to drum before I came out here to Texas. I was in two bands. I played live shows when I was stationed in Nellis Air Force Base out there, and I was in a couple bands and did my thing.
Came to Wichita Falls, there's just no live music scene like there was in Vegas, so sold my drums at the time, and now I just live vicariously through the music, man, and, uh, go to live shows, and that's really it. I, music's kind of my thing
Riley: Oh, wow. That's cool, man. Uh, what's something that's quirky about you that people don't know?
Roger Perez: Hmm. I love Western Wear and boots.
Riley: Yeah
Roger Perez: That's kind of a newer thing, but yeah, that's a
Riley: when we met at that steakhouse and you come walking in in your boots and cowboy hat, I, it took me a second to recognize you 'cause we do that in jujitsu a lot where
Roger Perez: Yeah
Riley: we, [01:34:00] see our jujitsu buddies on the mat, and they're always wearing a gi or, you know,
Roger Perez: Yeah
Riley: gear. And then we see them in street clothes, don't even recognize them. I love
Roger Perez: Yeah. that's it. That's funny
Riley: man. What's your favorite naughty food?
Roger Perez: Uh, I like gas station pizza, man.
Riley: Yeah?
Roger Perez: Ga- ga- yeah. You get me, you get me at, uh, like a Raceway or one of these little nice Texas oversized gas stations. Now let's, let's be honest here, gas station pizza in Texas, like if you're in, in Texas, is delicious. It's good. It's fresh. It's better than some stuff you might order to your front door, in my opinion.
Um, now I know other places and other... that I've driven around the world, not so good. Anything gas station's not that good. But I like gas station pizza, man. That's kinda my... That, that with like a Red Bull or a Monster. That's my dirty like, uh, yeah, that's it right there, man. Traveling food, you know?
Riley: I've only had [01:35:00] tastes of... I've, I've never really been into energy drinks, right? But I, I've had tastes of a couple of them, and I've never thought one tasted good. I was like, "These are terrible."
Roger Perez: Yeah, you just get addicted.
Riley: Yeah
Roger Perez: when I was, in Iraq in 2005, I think Red Bulls were just becoming popular, and, uh, me and Zoltan had this conversation, uh, with Carlos, and I was t- telling him about Red Bull and how I was, uh, during the Iraqi elections. And, uh, I was at, I was at, uh, in Iraq, and I was at, uh, uh, FOB Freedom, which is near, you know, where all the, all, a lot of the bombings happened there.
But, uh, long story short, um, during the Iraqi elections, they were giving us cases of Red Bull, like handing out cases, 'cause it was night shift, the elections were happening, we were anticipating getting bombed. We got bombed. But, uh, we were just slamming Red Bulls all night long, and then it became the green monsters and the blue monsters, and you can only get the r- the green or the blue.
And I mean, I was drinking those things, and then [01:36:00] it was Rip Its. Rip Its is like a military... Now they're selling them in d- yeah, you don't even know what that is exactly.
Riley: I don't even know what that is
Roger Perez: There's, every now and then you're gonna see things in the military like a Hooah bar, like a heard, understood, like people in the Army guy say, "Hooah," that's heard, understood, I acknowledge.
That's what Hooah stands for. It isn't just a, a like a... It isn't just a noise they make, but they'd come out with a bar that said Hooah bar. You couldn't get those anywhere but on military bases deployed. Rip Its were a deployed thing, and it was just an energy drink, and then all of a sudden recently, maybe three, four years ago, you started seeing Rip Its at Walmarts on the discount aisles.
Like they just started showing up. But Rip Its were a military, like, energy drink, and they just, they just give us those things when we were out there. So I don't know, man. That's what they gave us. That and Snapples. It was so odd. So
Riley: Snapple
Roger Perez: that's what they feed us. I was like, "All right, well, that's what we're...
This is our energy source." Yeah
Riley: I like Snapples. Those are good. Yeah.
Roger Perez: Yeah
Riley: a nickname?
Roger Perez: No, not [01:37:00] anymore. It wa- it was, it was, it was Bulldog when I was younger when I wrestled 'cause I had no neck and I was a little bit stockier than I am now, but I
Riley: barely have a neck?
Roger Perez: Yeah, it's true. That's even worse I guess now. It was Bulldog back then, but short and stocky and that was it.
Now no one, everyone just calls me Roger. Yeah
Riley: I love it. Yeah, you're one of those guys who, who just walks around going, "I don't understand choke defense. No one ever chokes me,"
Roger Perez: Yeah, I don't know. I just go like this, even less neck. I don't know why chokes don't work.
Riley: no neck. Yeah, I love it. I love it. what's the scariest moment of your life?
Roger Perez: Uh, I got a couple of those. I almost died a few times, uh, being deployed, you know, um, in a, in a grader, which like, you know, machine that scrapes the roads and dump - next to dump trucks and stuff. And we were at, it was at Bagram, Afghanistan, 2010, and, uh, forgot my, uh, Microsoft Zune, if you know what that is.
Instead of an iPod, it was a box that Microsoft made that wasn't an Apple product, [01:38:00] right? Forgot my Microsoft Zune, so I went back into my tent. I had started up a dump truck and waiting for it to get warm 'cause it was a diesel, so I went back inside, came back outside. It was blown up. It was gone. So because I forgot my music, music is life, um, I was still alive.
So that to me, that made it - my, my heart sunk to my guts and the whole thing, and it made me consider, reconsider every life choice that I'd ever made, you know? So that was one of them. That's probably the scariest for me is I, it didn't, I didn't get blown up, but the fact that I was right there like seconds, literally seconds before, um, it gave me a level of fear I've never really had before, you know?
So that's - I know that's kinda dark for some people maybe, but, um, I don't know, I feel blessed now, you know? Life's good right now
Riley: it's, scary, scary moments are always dark, right? I mean,
Roger Perez: Yeah
Riley: of the nature of that. but yeah, to go through an experience [01:39:00] like that, man, and realize there's a certain amount of life
Roger Perez: Hmm.
Riley: we were just in the right place at the right time, or sometimes the wrong place at the wrong time, right?
But
Roger Perez: Yeah
Riley: narrow escapes, man, that's... Yeah. I always really have such, such a just love for military folks and the... Just to stick yourself out there, right? Because you walk into it knowing that that's a possibility
Roger Perez: Yeah,
Riley: given point,
Roger Perez: absolutely
Riley: And most, most of your deployment is not that. Most of it's just doing work and, you know, day-to-day and... But then you have these moments, man, where it's just like, "Holy crap, that was close." And, you know. son right now, I don't know if I told you this, uh, you haven't met my son Danny, have you?
Roger Perez: No
Riley: Um, he's a wildland firefighter, and he's, he's down in Utah right now fighting some big fires, and
Roger Perez: Yeah
Riley: of them, I think they s- my wife said they have 1,100 firefighters on this
Roger Perez: Yeah
Riley: that he's on. But [01:40:00] just three days ago, they lost five people on
Roger Perez: Yeah, you get trapped really quick. Yeah.
Riley: Yeah.
Roger Perez: those get really serious really quick
Riley: Yeah. Yeah, man. Yeah. Um, let's get a little lighter. How's that? So
Roger Perez: Yeah, let's do it
Riley: in life would you, would you consider, Roger, as your most valuable learning experience?
Roger Perez: Um, patience before pressure is a term I think of a lot. Um, I, I used to react really quickly when something made me upset, or before I asked questions I'd, I'd make harsh decisions. Um, that, that patience is... Man, just, just waiting a little bit to cool off yourself, uh, waiting a little bit to see how things pan out, um, waiting a bit before you approach to start the conversation.
Uh, that - I mean, there's a lot of things that are happening during that wait as well in my mind. You [01:41:00] know, I'm walking through scenarios in my head. I'm a second and third order effects kinda guy, so I'm thinking if he's - doesn't know if he's with malicious intent, if he's with positive intent, or he didn't do it at all.
Like, those four tracks, and then all the reasons why before I even approach the situation or the, the thing. So patience before pressure. And if something doesn't go my way, then I absolutely... Pressure in a positive way or pressure in a negative way. Negative being, "Hey, we're gonna have a confrontation.
We're gonna talk about it and have our words," or, "We're gonna fix it, uh, and move forward." Um, so I've, I've had to learn patience the hard way. I've been taught quite a few times that I wasn't patient enough and I ruined a situation or an opportunity because I wasn't patient. So that for me, patience before pressure.
It's jujitsu too, I guess, if you wanna say that, right? But for me, just, like, relationships and conversations is pretty much what I do for a living. That's the way I have to think about it. So how I communicate with someone, and I have the patience to [01:42:00] give them space to, to say what they need to say and be who they need to be so that I can position myself to help them.
Or just, if I'm not even trying to help them, I'm just, they just need me to listen, I need to know that too. I need to have patience enough to let them speak long enough to know he doesn't want anything from me, he just wants to vent. That's... I never was able to do that till I learned patience. So that for me has been the biggest lesson
Riley: Say that one more time. You said patience before
Roger Perez: Pressure. Yeah
Riley: That's such a good thing, dude, 'cause I, I had a situation years back, and it, it's on my top two
Roger Perez: Yeah
Riley: best, best advice that I ever received, and it was... It basically is what you're saying. It's, it's kinda cool that you're bringing it up that way. But, it was...
Yeah, it was a situation where some accusations made, and I went worst-case scenario in my mind and
Roger Perez: Yeah
Riley: my you- it was my youth pastor at the time. He, he, um... Yeah, man. He goes, goes, "Just wait. It's probably not as bad as it seems. [01:43:00] Just calm down, and we'll, we'll address it when we get back to appropriate place to address this from." And I remember that. Like, I was so angry at the time, and I had zero patience. Man, I wanted to, I wanted to drive home and, and fight a guy you know, that had, uh, that was
Roger Perez: Imagine if you did.
Riley: the...
Roger Perez: if you did.
Riley: and I calmed down, and then when
Roger Perez: Yeah
Riley: I actually got to start talking to some people, it was...
it wasn't even a small fraction of big a deal as it sounded.
Roger Perez: Yeah
Riley: was perfect. It was like, "Wait. Just wait. You know, just patience.
Roger Perez: Yeah
Riley: It's probably not as bad." So yeah, I love it. You're just reminding me of that, and I, I think that's the coolest...
Roger Perez: Awesome
Riley: it's in the top two things in my world that I thought were the best, best advice.
So, Roger, who, who has influenced you the most in your life?
Roger Perez: Um, probably my son. Um, becoming a father has definitely made - [01:44:00] it's taught me a lot, good and bad. Um, it's, it's taught me to be patient. Like, my son, man, my son's taught me to be patient more times than I care to talk to you about on this podcast. Um, but it's also taught me that, you know, I gotta give him space to kinda be who he is.
Um, from there I realized with my employees... So, like, I guess if I had to sum it up is, like, if you can be a good father, you can also be a good friend, you have to be a good leader, and you have to be a good teacher. Like, those four things, and that's exactly in the, the space that I'm in. Um, and then based off of that, it's, I just kinda - I don't treat everybody like my son, but I just think if I can fit those - if I can do any of those four things for any of the people in my life, father, friend, teacher, leader, I mean, even follower.
Sometimes I have to follow his lead 'cause I don't know what he wants, so you know? I mean, [01:45:00] that's
Riley: Mm-hmm
Roger Perez: can be very... Like, he just told me he wants to be a firefighter not too long ago, but just before he graduated high school, which I didn't know what he wanted to do, and then he told me one day, he's like, "Dad, I think I wanna be a firefighter."
I'm like, "Okay. You wanna do that? All right. I'll - I'm gonna support you." Now I'm, now I'm following his lead, but I'm supporting him the best way I can. So, and I'm not trying to tell him what to do. I'm not trying to tell him how to do it. I'm not - I'm letting him do it, and sometimes it's a lot slower than I want him to do it, 'cause if it was me, I'd be, you know, getting physically fit for that fire test, 'cause it ain't easy.
I'd be wearing ankles, you know, ankle weights, and big suits, and getting in a sauna, and dealing with fire, and I'd be going down and shaking the fire chief's hand, and getting to know the guys, and taking the city test, 'cause you have to take the, what is it, the, uh, civil service test, and all these things.
So in my mind, I'm already million miles an hour. But he's doing it, he's doing it at an 18-year-old pace 'cause he's 18 years old still. So I gotta let him, I gotta let him fail forward a little bit, [01:46:00] and he might not make it his first time. So you know, we'll see kind of how it goes. So yeah, it's - he's taught me the most.
Riley: Oh, that's so cool, man. Yeah. I'm excited. I've got a 19-year-old son, he's a firefighter. We mentioned that earlier, but he's, he's done some of that too, man, where I'm just shaking my head like, "Oh, if you had only done this,"
Roger Perez: Yeah
Riley: But he's fallen on his face a few times, and
Roger Perez: You know, it's funny. He said the term, uh, mat dads 'cause in
Riley: he gets to learn
Roger Perez: the gym you got all these older guys, these wise guys, very successful guys. They got doctors, university professors, and I got, you know, guys that aren't so successful but have been on the mat a long time and learned a lot of hard lessons through life. And, uh, you know, I've had some conversations with my son and said, "Yeah, you know what?
They said, they said you need to listen to your dad, and I just didn't wanna listen to you." And he's like, "What do you mean?" He's like, "You know, Coach Joe told me that your dad's pretty smart, and I didn't, I just didn't, I just didn't see what he saw." And I was just like, "Thanks, I guess," you know? But the fact that the other guys are telling him [01:47:00] like, "Your dad's pretty smart.
You actually need to listen to him, or he's lived enough. He's made enough of his own mistakes that he doesn't want you to make the same ones. If he's telling you something, you should probably just do it." That's been super valuable. But it's shown me the power of the community and, you know, the mats. And our young boys, you know, uh, I wish they'd take the advice of older men who have lived life a little bit harder and longer than them to make their life easier and more successful, you know?
Riley: Dude, I, I think that's such a cool thing about, you know, about church or about... Jiu-jitsu's one of those. I love that term, man, mat dad, you said.
Roger Perez: That was his term. I, I was like, "That's great." Yeah, Matt dad
Riley: dude. I, I had this guy, and I, I appreciate it so much 'cause he was, he was a guy that we weren't, like, super close friends in the gym, but, but close enough, you know?
We're... uh, my son went to him and was asking him a question one day, and it was a jujitsu question. It was, you know, nothing life-altering, but was just jujitsu question and, and this guy said to him, he goes, "Hey, [01:48:00] I want you to go home and go to this website called www.askyourdad.com. You know your dad's a black belt, right?" He was... That was how
Roger Perez: Yeah
Riley: and
Roger Perez: funny
Riley: like, "Oh, crap, I never even really thought about that I have this resource at home,
Roger Perez: Yeah
Riley: that he's been down this road before and knows how to answer this question, and I, I'm, I'm here at the gym asking somebody who's..." At the time, the guy was a purple belt, you know, and, and
Roger Perez: Um,
Riley: grappler and all, but
Roger Perez: yeah.
Riley: dad at home, right?
Roger Perez: Yeah, that's right. Got those resources, not even using them. That's wild.
Riley: I love it. I
Roger Perez: Yeah
Riley: that's such a cool thing you're experiencing that, that also. What, uh, Roger, what's an item on your bucket list, something you wanna do before it's all over?
Roger Perez: Uh And I thought I wanted to actually retire. I don't know if I actually do wanna retire. I wanna travel more. I, I have been... My wife and I have been talking about going places and doing more things, so I wanna [01:49:00] see... We wanna go to Greece, we wanna go to Italy, we wanna go do all those exotic places. Um, I think next summer we'll probably start doing that.
So we wanna go, we wanna go do some Instagram-worthy traveling, is what I wanna call it. That's what I wanna do. And, uh, I wanna, I wanna get my son to... I wanna see, I wanna tie my son's black belt around his waist. That's it. Both, both my kids, actually, 'cause, um, recently married, so I have, I have a, a son now. I got a new son, Ian, you know?
And he's been with me, and he was in my school when he was four, so he started training when he was four. But I guess to get both my boys, uh, to black belt would be, that's a new goal I just realized just right now in my head, man. Thank you for bringing that up. Both those boys, 'cause he's a yellow belt, so, and he's, you know, he's pre-teen.
He's 10. But I mean, for kids that have been since four, man, and then when they get to 18, they're, like, purple belt, brown belt. You know, some kids maybe even black belt nowadays, you know? [01:50:00] So Mica Galvao was 18 when he got his black belt. I mean, he's a world beater, but obviously before they're 25, I'd assume, you know?
So it's crazy. Yeah, that's what I wanna do
Hmm. Let's see
I don't have a favorite book, and I don't read that much. I listen to podcasts. Um
Roger Perez: This one. Is that a trick question? Mm-hmm. No, I'm kidding. Um
I listen to a bunch of podcasts. Um, I still listen to some of Joe Rogan's stuff, just depending on what it is. Man, I was listening to that stuff long, long time ago. Um, I still listen to Jocko, [01:51:00] uh, Andy Frisella. Um, uh, let's see. What else? Those are the, those are... So Andy Frisella and Jocko's stuff are the main two that I listen to, uh, lately.
Those are the main two, and it's because I've been trying to switching gears. Before they were entrepreneurial stuff that I used to listen to. I kinda got away from that because they were getting into stuff that I'm not in that realm. So I... The leadership and communication realm are the two that I really focus on a lot, and that's where I think Jocko, like extreme, extreme ownership, extremely...
Like all those things to me, even though I'm not military anymore, um, having extreme ownership over decisions and failures is always gonna be my best friend. When something goes wrong, it's always my fault, period, because I didn't set, set the person up for success, or I didn't think about second and third order effects enough.
So for me, that, that's kind of what I focus on. And, um, I just don't read books anymore, man. I just, I just [01:52:00] don't, if I'm being honest. I'd hate to tell you... I, I'd love to give you a list of books, but I don't. I'm sure Carlos could because he's a big reader, but
Riley: Dude, you just said something else. You know, I, I said that your advice of, you know, be patient before pressure was in the top two.
Roger Perez: Mm-hmm.
Riley: what the top, the top one is?
Roger Perez: Mm-mm.
Riley: said it. It was, it's always my fault.
Roger Perez: Yeah
Riley: as a leader perspective, man,
It's true Yeah
Um, so, um, my main focus right now is association stuff. Like, um You know, Carlos has been building this group, this organization, it's a baby of his, for a long time, and, you know, I think that, uh, I chose him to be my jujitsu teacher, coach, uh, jujitsu master, and, [01:53:00] um, you know, I believe enough in his mission to serve him, and it allows me to kind of fulfill my potential and fill my glass at the same time.
Riley: So right now, we basically in the middle of revamping all of our systems, our SOPs, and there's a lot of, there's a lot of good, good change going on right now. The jujitsu community as a whole is kinda odd when it comes to associations. You know, you either pay money to fly a banner for no reason other than you might get some rank later, and you have to pay a bunch of money for a s- couple seminars, or you can have...
There's some organizations that offer value, and I think ours is one of the most value-offering organizations, and I think we're starting to attract the right type of people. And, uh, the curriculum that, um, we're focusing on right now to revamp, and it's ju- at the end of the day, I get it. It's just jujitsu.
It's just jujitsu, right? Uh, Carlos' jujitsu is a little different than a lot, I will say that. It's not like anything crazy mind-blowing, but he is one of the most efficient grapplers [01:54:00] I've ever put hands on, and, uh, even at his age of 62, 63, I can't do anything to him. Like, he's just, he, he's always at the right place at the right time.
Um, I've got to film him. I've got to train with him. I got to see him teach. I've seen him teach at a school, do seminars, and I've seen enough to think, "Okay, I, I, I believe enough in his jujitsu product and him as a human to get behind him and help him build the blueprint or framework for his organization."
Um, so this year, I mean, it's all been basically building everything from the ground up, uh, helping him with his, uh, law enforcement project as well. He has Machado Method Tactical. That's something that we've already been introducing to organizations across the United States, and I think it's gonna be as big as some of the other ones you might know out there on YouTube and in the jujitsu space.
That's all I'm gonna say about that. Um, the people that have tried it and have been doing the other programs tell us they like our [01:55:00] product better. Um, and this is coming from, like, we were just in, uh, the North Carolina Justice Center and trained, I think it was 20 of their training officers, and then that center trains the rest of the state.
So that type of fee- that level of feedback is very promising, uh, for us. Um, and then we have people in Texas right now that are training officers in some of the largest sheriff's departments that are applying the techniques, and we're getting amazing feedback as well. So getting field testing and getting actual f- on-the-ground feedback from these guys that are taking down bad guys or getting bad guys on top of them and getting that feedback from them- Super important.
Um, so Machado Method Tactical, and also we're working on Modus Mission, which is the marketing side of Machado Method Association. You know, honestly, we've been doing partnerships with lots of other companies, and there's nothing wrong with the marketing companies or [01:56:00] these, you know, website companies or the CRM companies.
But the fact of the matter is, is like, nobody's going to take care of our people better than us, and that's just the fact of it. No one's gonna know what the problems are better than us, 'cause you have these companies that deal with thousands and thousands of karate, taekwondo, jujitsu, Muay Thai, whatever, hapkido schools.
Nobody's gonna know jujitsu better than us. Nobody's gonna know the marketing for jujitsu better than us. You know, you think of someone like Lindsay and Carlos, they've been in this game proficiently and actively for so... And Lindsay, like, we didn't talk, I haven't said anything about Lindsay, but Lindsay's my, you know, my sister from another mister, and she's been in the game.
Like, her dad's school and w- her brother, Wonder Boy, you know, famous UFC fighter. But her dad, you know, Lindsay herself is a black belt, you know, in kickboxing and, and karate from her dad, and their school is a million-dollar school. People don't really talk about that school, but her sch- she came from [01:57:00] a karate-based system.
But the karate-based marketing and business systems, which by the way, taekwondo, karate, those guys are light years ahead of jujitsu guys when it comes to marketing and business systems. I don't care what anybody says about the art part, but when it comes to business, those guys got it down. Taekwondo schools, thriving, beautiful, they're doing very well unless the instructor's not doing something.
Some of the largest organizations and most well-run organ- uh, events I've ever been to have been taekwondo, uh, events. Um, good business training. So, uh, Modus Mission is, is what we're doing. We're building for the association. We're probably not gonna, we're probably not gonna go outside of the organization unless they're friends of the organization, because we just wanna focus on our small group, um, to give them websites, marketing, ads, those type of things to help them, um, get students and keep students and, uh, communicate better with their communities.
That's really what we're gonna focus on, um, because there's too many things [01:58:00] from other places. They get this website, they get this software, they get this marketing agency, and they're not connected, and they're not talking. Um, building somebody a system where everything comes into one place, and they can communicate with their website, their Google, their SEO, um, being right, their social media.
You know, someone clicks on your website, it goes into this one space. Having that all in one space is super powerful. Super powerful, and I think people are not unders- I don't think people understand that. I don't think they see it and know why it would help them. Um, but yeah, that's a whole nother topic, man.
Um, so for me, um, I'm at, on Instagram, I'm Roger Grapples. Um, Facebook, I'm just Roger Perez. Um, if someone wants to get ahold of me, director@machadomethod.com. Um, other than that... Oh, yeah, [01:59:00] martialartsofwichitafalls.com. Yep. Uh, the name of the school is Dynamic Martial Arts, and I'm in Wichita Falls, Texas. It's like two hours north of Dallas and two hours south of Oklahoma City.
So if you're ever driving in that part of the world and you wanna stop in and train, drop in and come say hey
all the, this, you hear talk about titles in jujitsu, right? You refer to Carlos as Master Machado, I always get, like, nerding out on that, man, 'cause I feel like that term master has never occurred to me that I'm, calling someone my master. always viewed it as recognizing the fact that they have mastery over a certain topic, you know?
Roger Perez: Yeah, master of skill
Riley: "Guys, I'm never calling another man my master." It's like, well, that's I've never even taken it that way, so I, I don't What do you see there?
Roger Perez: Yeah, so for me it's, [02:00:00] uh, I think that has more to do with a person, uh, that's a psychology talk, I think. That's the person viewing the con- the term, the title as a having control over them. That's an authoritative and like a problem with that. A person who, they probably, they're the same, they're probably the same person that says like, "F the cops."
You know?
Riley: Yeah
Roger Perez: F authority." That like, and that's, that's kinda cool I guess if you wanna be a rebel, if you're into punk rock and that's your thing. All right, whatever. But, uh, I understand that, uh, I am lucky enough to have somebody who has mastery over a specific subject or an art, so I am happy to call him Master Machado, 'cause he's Master Machado.
He's Master of Brazilian jujitsu, Carlos Machado. Um, and that's, that's, when you understand that, then it's not bow to your sensei Rex Wando, you know, like I'm your master. That's, that's not what we're doing. That's not what we're talking. And then once you meet Carlos, if people actually knew Carlos, he doesn't introduce himself as Master Machado.
He's like, "Hey, I'm Carlos." Like, that's it. [02:01:00] And of course, when we're on our Zoom call, I do refer to him as Master Machado. It's, uh, very military in me, but it's, um, I think it's a culture thing, too, just, uh, giving him his proper title that he's earned. Uh, it's an earned title. Um, but when it's just us, we're having steak or we're smoking a cigar, it's just Carlos and Roger.
That's it
Riley: I love it, man. it's cool to use those terms, 'cause it, it is, it is honoring, man, and, and that guy's put a lot of years in, and he's put a
Roger Perez: Yeah
Riley: and, and effort into you as a, as a, as a man, and I just... Yeah, I, I, I think it's appropriate, and I, I guess I don't understand sometimes the, the poo-pooing that goes on in the jujitsu world with that.
I, yeah, taken it as they're my master. They're just, they're someone who has mastered a, a thing and beautiful man.
Dude, thanks for coming on.
Roger Perez: Thanks, man.
Riley: conversation. I
Roger Perez: Yeah, likewise.
Riley: Yeah,
Roger Perez: Had a lot of fun
Riley: dropped a lot of wisdom and, and I always appreciate you and[02:02:00]
Roger Perez: Likewise
Riley: forward to the future together, dude.
Roger Perez: For sure, man
Riley: Yeah. Awesome. Roger, go earn your salt, my friend
Roger Perez: All right, man. I'll do that. Take care
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