Riley: [00:00:00] All right, you guys. This is my friend Matt Spears. We grew up together.
We were childhood friends, uh, [00:01:00] gosh. All through elementary, junior high, and high school, huh?
Matt: For sure time
Riley: Yeah. I, invited Matt on here today because Matt is, well, he's got a really cool story. Um, he's a successful entrepreneur. Got a lot of irons in the fire, a lot of different things that he's, he's done over the years, and I just, I've been kind of fascinated by it.
There's some, there's been some, some exciting times and some not so exciting stuff, and some, even some just heartbreaking tragedy in there that, that, uh, has happened over the years. And just a, a little bit of background. I talked about Matt and I growing up together, we. We had a, a, a spurt during adulthood where we didn't see each other for a long time and didn't really talk much, but here in the last couple years we've become of reacquainted and, and, and gotten to hang out quite a, quite a lot.
And so, so yeah. I'm really looking forward to having him on the episode today. Matt. Welcome dude.
Matt: Yeah. Thanks for having me. Hopefully this, uh, this is exciting as [00:02:00] you hoping for,
Riley: Yeah, no, I think your story's awesome, man.
Matt: I've got a good story, but it's just a story.
Riley: says. That's just your story, right? But,
Matt: right.
Riley: but listen, there's some so I talked about us growing up together. Um, we were in the same neighborhood, just probably lived what, quarter Mile Apart, all went to school. We had a lot of the same buddies growing up in the neighborhood.
Um, but one of the things I remember is you were always a guy who seemed to different than me. I, I was a little bit, uh oh, what would you call it? I didn't get along with everybody, but you seem to get along with most people.
Matt: I tried,
Riley: Um, something you were, you consciously did or was that, uh, kind of part of who you were or was it something that you, where'd that come from?
Matt: I would probably say it's 50%, um, intentional and 50% unintentional. And I say it that way because I, [00:03:00] I did make a conscious effort to try to be cordial with everybody. And in turn, I, I mean, you know, you always say you want to treat people like you want to be treated. And so that always stuck with me too.
So part of it was intentional, just trying, and then a lot of it was just, you know, it's just who I was and it's who I wanted to be, and I. It just came out in my personality, I guess.
Riley: than probably anyone else that I can think of off the top of my head seemed to kind of cross those planes you know had all these different groups of of kids in the neighborhood and you would fit with any of em
Matt: Had a lot of diversity in my friendship group, that's for sure.
Riley: So that's gonna that's gonna come into our conversation a little later on how that you know how that it'll tie in later We'll just put it that way So um that's the reason I asked that question Now um you grew up your whole life in Po Hotel right cause I I remember we became friends kind of [00:04:00] middle elementary school
Matt: Yeah.
Riley: you born there
Matt: Born and raised in chubby Idaho, which is the subsidy of Pocatello and I mean, I moved several times, had different houses, whatnot, but I always stayed in the chock area.
Riley: Dude it's funny you say that cause I just it just occurred to me as you said from Chubb I always say I'm from Pocatello because no one knows where Chubb's at Right yeah yeah I I was gosh four months old when I moved my family moved to uh Chubb and that's where I lived my whole growing up So uh funny man We had a neighborhood with a ton of kids and so we always had something to do there Building dirt bike ramps and playing football in the park and
Matt: Oh yeah,
Riley: baseball in the park
Matt: Lots of the fun stuff that the kids don't do much anymore these days.
Riley: you remember that park we played baseball at And we'd always we'd remember those dryer vents that were on the side of the building and we [00:05:00] were always trying to hit em with the with the baseballs
Matt: I sure do.
Riley: if we hit the building that was our home run wonder We didn't go to jail man
Matt: For sure.
Riley: about this So so we one of the things I remember about you and this again ties in but you you were always athletic Now your your sport of choice if I remember right was baseball Right
Matt: Correct. Um, I started playing baseball outside of the neighborhood. Baseball games obviously, but, um, eight years old is when I remember I started doing the city league and I played eight, um, from eighth, me, eight years old, all the way up till I was about 17, so about nine
Riley: man And your position
Matt: Um,
Riley: your
Matt: up young, in my younger years I was always the pitcher in the shortstop. And then soon as I hit high school [00:06:00] ball, um, they moved me to second base and that was kinda my home from there. And then I pitched a little bit in base or in high school as well.
Riley: admired uh second basemen and short stops man I I thought they were probably the most well-rounded players in the in the game uh
Matt: of action on
Riley: catchers You had kind of had to really understand the coordination of the field and always got stuck out in left field cause I could catch stuff that came out of the air but I couldn't I didn't have the it's kinda spatial awareness to be a shortstop or second baseman
Matt: Gotcha.
Riley: Um with the athleticism I remember in junior high one of the things that really stood out with you I remember we were doing physical tests one day in PE and I've always wanted to ask you this keep forgetting to when we're just hanging out But you could do a crap ton of pull-ups man I remember I remember a coach really encouraging you to try to be a pole vaulter [00:07:00] because you could do something like was it like 22 or 28 pull-ups Some ridiculous number
Matt: was in the twenties for sure. I can't remember exactly what the number was, but the biggest thing was is I was only a hundred and I mean junior high when you're talking, I was only 125 pounds soaking wet. And so kind of a disadvantage anyway 'cause I didn't have as much weight to work with as everybody else.
But then again, my arms were that big around too. So.
Riley: it was so cool to me cause I I think the most I ever did was like eight And so you know the difference in that was just remarkable And I remember thinking holy crap dude This more than meets the eye with Matt Um which ties into to what I where I want to go with this um that stood out to me and then I've told you since But there was something in uh in high school that really stood out to to me regarding you and your story and what what you became um as a as an adult [00:08:00] But we had a career day Do you remember me talking to you about this Where there was this you you and I were having and we were both kind of going well I don't know kind of what field I really wanna go into And they were wanting us to pick our major in high in college And I remember you sitting back and just going well I guess I'm just gonna be a plumber like my dad And kind of in almost you you kind of almost sounded defeated Like this is just a bummer I just don't see anything else really standing out So me My eyes are watering a little bit this morning So with uh with that you you didn't end up being a plumber but you went into the trades So tell us how you kind of got started in that in the business what business you went into and and what that looks like now
Matt: Okay. So yeah, back to working for my dad. I do remember being discouraged about it. 'cause unfortunately my dad and I did not get along very well when it come to work. we butted heads quite a bit. But I can remember as [00:09:00] early as 11 years old, dad would take me out in the field and try to teach me how to be a plumber. obviously 11-year-old kid, had no desire to really learn. I just wanted to, I was there because my dad needed my help sort of thing. And fast forward several years, my dad me to go into plumbing school when I was a junior in high school. so I was able to take my first year plumbing school apprenticeship. A junior and then turned around and did it again for the second year as a senior. then once I graduated, I was able to take the last two years consecutively, and I was an journeyman plumber by the time I was 19. And I still didn't get along with my dad. I still didn't really like plumbing that much. at that time, my brother, my oldest brother that has now passed away, he uh, found a girlfriend of his that lived an hour away. And so he was working for my dad as well. Um, once he got his girlfriend, um, they, [00:10:00] they got along pretty good and pretty soon became pregnant. And so my brother had to move an hour away from Pocatello. And so he went and got a job with a plumbing and heating contractor outta Logan, Utah. And he had no idea about heating and air conditioning, but when he couldn't, when they couldn't keep him busy on the plumbing side, he. They'd shift him over to the heating and air conditioning crew, and he started learning how to do that.
And so wasn't too long after that my brother decided he was done working for somebody else, and he went out on his own. And I was 17 to graduated high school, and my brother decided to hire me. So I moved down to Preston, Idaho and worked for my brother doing plumbing and heating. And that's where I got introduced in the heating field, uh, if you want me to keep going with that,
Riley: Yeah
Matt: I, a bitter taste in my mouth for the plumbing industry just because it was forced on me. I had to do it. I never had an [00:11:00] option. And as soon as the heating and air conditioning became an option for me working for my brother, absolutely fell in love with it. I wanted to learn everything and anything I could about it. And it was probably only, would say, probably three to four months in that I was like. To hell with plumbing. I'm going into the HVAC field. This is my cup of tea. Um, and so then the funny thing was my brother had another employee that did, um, tile installations and uh, he would go do side jobs on the nights and weekends and he was always looking for an extra hand to mix some mud or carry some boxes of tile in.
And I was just a young, tough kid. And, uh, I started working with him on the side learning how to do tile installations. And so fast forward another four years after working for my brother, I decided I was gonna do this a my own. And I started my own heating and air conditioning business in 2001 [00:12:00] and also did ceramic tile installations.
And so I named my business Precision Heating and Tile, which is a super weird combination. And everybody always asked me, how in the heck you mix those two jobs together? So that's the, that's the story of how I started my business back then and kind of shifted out of the plumbing industry.
Riley: know that's that's really interesting cause a lot of times guys talk about once they've gone to the level of journeymen being locked into a career right cause they'll start making a certain amount of money there and then to switch means a drastic pay cut And so they're kind of feel locked in
Matt: sure.
Riley: you feel any of that during that
Matt: I definitely did. Um, 'cause obviously my knowledge in the heating and air conditioning field was slim, slim to none compared to the plumbing, um, experience that I had. And obviously the time and effort that I had put into learning the plumbing, it was a discouraging [00:13:00] situation to look and think, all right, let's start over.
Let's do it again.
Riley: And I remember I talked to with this about another guy in another episode but you you mentioned not liking plumbing partly because your dad forced you into it
Matt: For sure.
Riley: if how well you knew my dad but he was a railroader Right And yeah when I turned 18 they dad my both my grandfathers my uncle half the neighborhood that we lived in were all railroaders And yeah they asked me if I wanted to become part of the railroad And I remember thinking man listen to the way you guys talk about the railroad There's no way no way So was that was that part of the of the equation going into the uh kind of resentfulness with plumbing
Matt: I, not so sure if it was the, I don't know. I don't know how to explain it other than, yeah, it was just, it was always forced. It was never an option. And my dad just [00:14:00] made me work, which. To this day is probably the absolute number one best thing that anybody's ever taught me hands down is get your butt out there and work.
Matt: If you want something, you work for it, period. else is gonna work for it for you. And so [00:15:00] always that mentality. And then to kind of back to why I resented working for my dad, the biggest reason, and my dad was born, um, below poverty level when he was younger in Mesa, Arizona. He always told me stories how he never, he had never had running water or electricity in his house until he was 14 years old. And so he had minimum. so fast forward to when he had his kids, which he had six kids, I was the youngest of oh six. He provided a roof over our head, food on our table, and anything else we wanted was 100% up, up to us. And we resented that our whole lives 'cause all of our friends in the neighborhood seemed to have it pretty good.
And. You know, they had all the amenities, they had the Nintendos and the Segas and all the fun things that kids had back then, trampolines, whatnot. And my dad was straightforward, bare minimum, and if you want anything else, go work for it. So back to what I was getting at when I stepped away [00:16:00] from my dad, started working for my brother. My brother was absolutely phenomenal about rewarding me for the work that I did. And growing up, I never was rewarded other than a roof over my head and food on the table, which granted was enough and plenty, as a young kid wanting extra, extra, not getting the reward, it was brutal. And so when my brother taught me that, Hey, the more you work, the more money you make, the harder you work, the more you learn, more money you make. And as soon as I got that concept in my head, that's when my entrepreneurship kicked in. And it was like, yeah, there's a lot of money to be made in this situation. I'm gonna go for it.
Riley: Yeah So that thing that you resented really turned into a blessing didn't it
Matt: hundred percent for, for me
Riley: I sounds like it man And I I think of that meme that's been going around you know that's it It talks about how how tough people were [00:17:00] because they held the wrench for their dad or they held the flashlight for their dad you know and they it's I imagine in plumbing there's plenty of those holding the flashlight moments so
Matt: A lot of yelling and screaming when I didn't do exactly what I was supposed to, when I was supposed to do it.
Riley: the exact right thing
Matt: right.
Riley: It's funny cause I thing right I would work on cars with my dad and I remember the freaking flashlight man It's a it's a burnt in memory in my head and you know I'm trying to hold it on the right spot or I'm trying to find the right wrench to hand him and and it stressed me out But you know as you know I own another business um outside of of my supplement company that's works on the automobiles right We do service but I I I'm with you on that man It's the same those those times when I was so ticked off that my dad was being such a jerk and screaming at me cause I wasn't pointing the light in the right direction I was also learning Right Um and I learned how how to work on cars [00:18:00] because of that those those situations And even though they were hard and they were frustrating they made me mad at the time it into a nice uh career choice for me So With that Um how did your how's your relationship with your dad now
Matt: Um, it's, it's a little rocky to be honest with you. Um, my dad and I have a lot of different personality traits and obviously we're both stubborn and hard, hard wheeled, so we've never really had anything to connect on. Like a lot of my buddies that I've grown up with, their dad has taken 'em out camping or fishing or hunting or hiking or riding or something.
Somebody always has a hobby that their dad either taught 'em or took 'em out to do for a reward situation if they did their chores or whatever. My dad was just let's take care of six kids. Let's work our butt off. Let's pay our bills, let's make sure that there's food on the [00:19:00] table, roof over our head.
And that was, that was the end of my dad's relationship with us kids, was just to the grind. And so that resentment just kinda stayed, stayed with me. And, and I feel like my, my dad is kind of a, I guess you'd say, quote unquote, greedy, greedy person sometimes. And I'm not, I've, I've prided myself my whole life to not be a greedy person and try to give the shirt off my back when it's needed. And because my dad wasn't that way, I still love him. I still play golf with him, uh, still hang out with
Riley: Oh cool
Matt: So I make the relationship there because I don't ever wanna live with regrets. I.
Riley: Does uh didn't know you guys were playing golf together because golf is a um kind of a recent thing in your life isn't it
Matt: It is. Yeah. I started taking up golf seriously about two years ago.
Riley: Yeah dude [00:20:00] that's awesome cause yeah I I played for a little while but I never My dad was never in the physical condition to play so uh I never got to experience that with him That'd be that'd be pretty rad
Matt: Yeah. That's been one of the only things my dad and I have ever been able to do outside of work and actually spend time together. So's been good?
Riley: valuable man take advantage of that
Matt: Oh yeah, for
Riley: That's not gonna be there forever But so in business you went into heating and air uh transitioned outta plumbing into heating heating cooling tile It's been just like a straight up go from there hasn't it No hard spots
Matt: it has, um, you know. Yeah, I, I found out real quickly that I had about 20% of the training that I needed to jump out on my own as a business owner, which was an absolute giant slap in the face. 'cause a young kid thinking, oh, I know how to do this, I can take care of this. No problem. I jumped in with both hands and feet into the business world and [00:21:00] realized real fast that I was about 80% short of the knowledge and the training and the experience that I needed to do what I needed to do.
Riley: So dude I see that all the time and especially in the trades right Somebody gets good at the trade part of it but doesn't realize when they go out on their own that there's a whole different art form there That's the business part of it How is that transition for you
Matt: It was tough. I'm not gonna lie, you know, back to school when we were younger. I didn't really care about school that much until high school when they told me, Hey, you can't play baseball unless you get your grades up a little bit. And then until that moment, I honestly did not care about school that much because I, I struggled a little bit in my academic career from start to finish.
And, and it was a lot of different reasons, but for the most part, when it come to the business side of running the business, thank goodness I knew the, the simple math and simple this and that. But when [00:22:00] it comes to the percentages and the profit margins and the profit and losses and making sure you're comparing all this stuff to make sure your business is not just rolling money through there, it's actually making money and being able to retain it. And it was a, was an ass kicker, let's just put it that way.
Riley: Well okay so you said you started into that field in around 2001
Matt: Yep.
Riley: right Uh we graduated high on your own
Matt: Yep.
Riley: So 2001 come you know six seven years later we go through a pretty big recession tell me your story about that because that that part I talked to you just personally we both went through a real similar dip Okay I ended up in chapter 11 and lost everything I owned Um had to start over from scratch at 32 years old Uh you pulled it off [00:23:00] but it wasn't easy for you Tell tell us that story
Matt: Yeah. So, uh, when I went into business, um, like I said, I struggled, um, I, I was thrown into it both hands and feet, and I had absolutely no choice but to figure it out. And so through trial and error and through a lot of asking questions from other professionals and figuring some stuff out, long story short, it took me approximately five to six years. To make the business really start making a profit instead of me just making a wage through the business. And so about that time was around 2006, 2007, and construction was just absolutely going nuts back then. And that it was that point where I finally started really, really figuring out how to make money. I, um, grandfather built a cabin in Island Park back at 76. 2007, um, I was able to invest in that cabin with my brother and my cousin. And so I acquired a pretty darn nice [00:24:00] asset up in Island Park, Idaho. And then I also had just built a house in 2007, my very first new construction house that I built for myself. And I thought I had the world by the Cahones man. It was, I thought it was just sweet, sweet sailing from there. But after that, like you said, man, the recession hit around oh eight. a lot of the contractors during that time have to take out bankruptcy because they were struggling. And unfortunately, as a subcontractor, I got, I got stuck holding the bag for a lot of people's debt that they owed me. so at that time, I took a total of about $84,000 in bankruptcy debts. And out of that 84,000, 48,000 of it was materials that I owed to creditors. And when the tough times hit. And, you know, I, I hit a low point to where I was like, absolutely no way I'm gonna recover from this. And so I ended up having to sell my house, [00:25:00] and I ended up going back to bare bones and just pinching pennies as tight as I could.
And there was a lot of times in there where I thought to myself, well, bankruptcy's the only option. And then the more I thought about it, the more I realized that Chubb and Pocatello, Idaho is such a small community, that if I were to go bankrupt. And not pay my debt to these people that I have to look at in the grocery stores, them through on the streets and seeing them at ball games, whatever it is, be able to look 'em in the face and shake their hand and realize that I, I didn't hold, I didn't hold the bag for anybody, you know? So it was a very tough time. I went from hero to zero. I went from zero to Hero and then back from Hero to Zero. Real fast.
Riley: Man but you you kind of were like that airplane that just misses the ground right You
Matt: percent.
Riley: pulled up some of the decisions you had [00:26:00] made prior to that started to bear some good fruit you enough asset base where you're able to survive that that dip
Matt: Yep.
Riley: Um digging outta that what did that look like for you Because you probably learned some some tough lessons Like you you you mentioned going back to bare bones from a just a business philosophy standpoint What did you take away from that experience
Matt: Um, honestly, just a strong appreciation for the good times. You know, a lot of us take it, take for granted the, the good times, and we forget about the bad. And still to this day, I mean, that's a, that's a part of my life that I'll never forget. And because it, it humbled me, you know, it put me, it put me from the top down to the bottom and made me realize that I had to work for whatever everything I had again, and just dig myself out of a hole.
And mentally and physically, that was [00:27:00] probably the toughest thing I've ever done. But at the same time, it was rewarding because back to my dad's childhood, you know, you want, you want more, you want extra, do it yourself. And so there was nobody
Riley: it sounds to me like your dad's growing up experience he didn't have enough to where luxuries were uh important to him It was survival right
Matt: A hundred
Riley: Um and you got to experience through that that business hardship where you know things start to turn down You start realizing that you know what I need to live like in the in the rough times So that can profit during the the boom times right
Matt: A hundred percent. And now that you say that, that brings to mind, you know, the fact that fact that I was able to go through that hardship and you asked me what lessons I pulled back from it, you know, I held onto that for a long time thinking that it was gonna happen again. [00:28:00] so because of that fear that it was gonna happen again, I did nothing but pinch pennies.
And you always hear people say, you know, you need to live within your means. Well, my means were here. And I lived down here for a long time because I thought I had to. because of that, you know, I lived a very modest lifestyle for probably a good 10 years after that experience. And because of that, I was able to invest a lot of money into different things and really stock pile of, uh, insurance cushion, if you will, on the finance side of things.
So that if, if or when that happened, I was prepared for it.
Riley: man it's it that's an interesting thing cause I I think we've you and I have had that discussion um on a personal level a lot of times about how life looks with the scar tissue we carry around Right And and yeah I think back as as you talked about your dad he had scar tissue that he brought he still kind of tried to live down here [00:29:00] even though life probably was not there still I mean he had a lot more um a lot more margin in his world than he uh recognized I think
Matt: sure.
Riley: And so and I both Yeah After going through the times we did I love how you put that You were afraid it would happen again because the reality is it could happen again Right so put some cushion between you and life now Right And this is this is from an asset base and it's a financial base and Talk about some of the other things that you've become involved in now
Matt: Okay. So again, back to my dad, you know, my dad was really into real estate. I'm not sure exactly who got him into the real estate business, 'cause it wasn't his dad. I think it was just some, um, peers and coworkers around that he worked with throughout the years. But he, he learned how to invest into real estate. And as at a young age, I can always remember listening to my dad, talk to his [00:30:00] buddies, or talk to his friends, or talk to my mom, or. in a while talk to us kids about invested in real estate. And so that, again, I took from my dad, you know, I, I've watched my dad have apartment buildings and some houses that he rented and I was like, you know what?
I can see that that's making him some money to support six kids, his heating and air conditioning business. And so I started dabbling in real estate, uh, really early, early age at 19. And then it didn't take me long to realize that once you start investing into real estate and building, um, new construction projects, it was a giant write off for my heating and air conditioning business.
'cause I was able to work out a lot of trade work and a lot of, just a lot of different angles that saved me a ton of money. And then I was able to save a lot of money on taxes. And so then I learned that the more I build, the more I purchasing the real estate, the more tax deductions [00:31:00] and tax breaks that I'm getting through my business.
And so I. I honestly unintentionally started building a, a pretty big portfolio with real estate, and it was mainly driven to I save tax dollars on my heating and air conditioning business? And it, a while, it just got to the point where I could see the writing on the wall that I was making more money in the real estate dealings than I was in the heating and air conditioning business half the time. thank goodness it was because of the, the cash flow that I had coming through my heating and air conditioning company allowed me to invest in the real estate and allowed me to have that working capital. And snowballed from there. And so really, I've turned into a developer slash investor more than I was at heating and air.
[00:32:00]
Matt: And once that got to the point where it is now, where it's bringing in a pretty good res residual income, um, I was actually realized that with my heating and air conditioning business, I wasn't passionate about it anymore. And it, it became a job. And that job was a job that I absolutely despised, getting up in the morning and going into work.
Um, it was for my employees and it was for my customers, and I was putting myself at the bottom of the totem pole. And so two and a half years ago, I had an employee that had been with me for 20 years. [00:33:00] name is Paul Hall. Um, he was with me through the thin and thick and thin of the business and knew everything, knew all the customers, knew the employees, and knew the business in and out. I was able to talk him into taking over the business about two and a half years ago and allowing me to semi-retire that I could continue working with the real estate and, and then golf golfing every day.
Riley: and fishing Huh
Matt: right.
Riley: so something kind of occurred to me there So you've you've this deal with Paul where he's is he are you carrying the contract Is that how that's working with the the the transfer of the business
Matt: Um, honestly, and this is probably one of my favorite stories to tell people, is I actually put the business up for sale I didn't let anybody know about it because I didn't want the community to know that I was selling, and I definitely didn't want my employees to know I was selling. [00:34:00] But after approaching Paul and giving him the opportunity to buy the business at a ridiculously low rate, he was like everybody else.
They was scared. He was scared to jump in with both hands and feet, and he didn't know what he was getting into, so he turned it down. So I had the business up for sale for an entire year. That particular year that I put it up for sale is when COVID pandemic hit us. And every investor in this world just puckered up as tight as they could.
'cause nobody knew what was gonna happen with the investments all over the board. And so after the year of having it up for sale, uh, got out of the sales contract and I approached Paul one more time and I said, look, dude, this is where I'm at. I, I either need to quit, which is gonna cause you to lose your job. your coworkers will lose your, their jobs and all of our customers not to have a heating and air conditioning company to rely on. I said, I don't wanna do that. And he looked at me and he goes, well, what am I supposed to do about it? And I said, I'll tell you what. I asked you to [00:35:00] purchase this business a year ago when you turned me down. What if I give you the business? And he just came me that kind of a deer in a headlight look like, what is this guy talking about? And so I wanted an out so bad. At the same time, I was so conscious about hurting the employees and the, the customers that I needed somebody to carry on the business or it was gonna collapse and it wasn't gonna be pretty. And so Paul actually, um, took a job out at the INL site, for those of you don't know that it's international laboratories out here. he was offered a job out there. And he come to me and told me that he was gonna take it. And it just crushed my hopes and dreams. I told him, I said, you know, I, I, I want you to do what's best for you. I want to see you succeed. And if that's the, uh, decision you need to make to, to make your life better, I'll shake your hand and [00:36:00] tell you congratulations and walk you out the door. And at that point, I thought, well, I guess I'm gonna have to go back to the drawing board and figure out something else. And, uh, two days went by. Paul cornered me in the office one morning. He came into work about 20 minutes earlier than usual. He says, Hey, I need to talk to you. I said, what's up? He goes, well, it's about work. And I said, oh, how much more time do you need and how much more time can you give me? goes, no, that's what I want to talk to you about. I decided to turn the job down at the site and I want to take you upon your offer, and that was a glorious day.
Riley: Yeah that's pretty I don't know part of me kinda gets a little choked up on that story cause I've I've felt that pain before You know a lot of times people they don't realize the gut check that happens when someone you've worked with for that long comes and tells you they're done You know it's If you've never been an employer [00:37:00] that crap hurts man It it cuts deep imagine the thrill you got when he come come back to you Yeah
Matt: sure. It's like losing a family member at that point. You know, you spend more time at work than you do at home with your family your coworkers. When you're working at that close proximity, you know, they become your family. It's not just a coworker anymore. And it was, it was a
Riley: Man you
Matt: it was a gut wrenching thought that not gonna be around anymore
Riley: Yeah I get irritated anytime I hear somebody say yeah you know this guy loves to fire people I'm like no I I've never met a good business owner that loves to fire people man or or loves to part ways with anybody Loves to see an employee quit It's always gut wrench But um so giving the business to Paul but you still have some involvement there What does that look like day to day
Matt: Um, you know, I wanted him to take the business over, but at the same time, I wanted to make sure he wasn't gonna fall on his [00:38:00] face because, you know, when I started my business, I was down at a level was manageable. Again, I told you I was overwhelmed 'cause I didn't know what I was doing. Well, Paul started a business, he was taking over a business that had been in operation for 28 years and thriving. And we had,
Riley: you're saying is when
Matt: it was
Riley: and you built much bigger thing that now he's the game when it's already an established hop and company
Matt: And when you say a company is established, you know, anybody that's been in employment, um, or, or even a CEO or management position knows that when you have success, the more success you have, the more stress and the more headaches and the more problems that you run into. And so Paul, Paul didn't quite know what he was getting into and when he jumped into it, slapped him in the face real hard.
But I'm telling you right now, that dude put his [00:39:00] head down, his nose to the grind, and he is. Surpassed every expectation I could ever thought. But back to, the reason I have involvement in it is I really wanted to stick around to make sure he was gonna succeed. so I promised him I would stick around for four years. I'd come into his office in the mornings, Monday through Thursday, however long it takes. And at first when I said that I thought it was gonna be two, three, sometimes four hours a day to get this, um, part of the business operable. And I came to realize real quick that it was only gonna take me a be between a half an hour and an hour a day, four days a week do all of his billing, his permits, his uh, and then make sure that his financial side was staying up where it needed to be.
And then also I was kind of keeping an eye of how he was treating the employees and how he was treating the customers and making sure everything was going. So I still go in the office as a, as a hourly employee to Paul work for a wage and just make sure that [00:40:00] his business is running smoothly like it should, which it is.
Riley: Um this brings up another question just that that I have and you you can divulge whatever you feel comfortable but as you're um I get this question a lot when I'm interacting with with business people especially if they're trying to make a transition like you guys are But I'll see owners or managers get so reliant on a certain employee if that employee ever quit they'd be hurting because they don't know how to do the function that they've hired that person to do Um how are you and Paul arranging that so that as you phase out a couple years from now um he'll know exactly what you're doing with those the billing and the invoicing and that that stuff
Matt: Yeah. So at first when we started, um, I was doing as much as I could. Um, slowly, Paul decided to start taking over the permitting process on his own, and so he took that on. [00:41:00] Then shortly after that, he decided to start taking his inspection, um, call ins on his own. And mainly it was because it was, I was the third, I was the third guy or the middleman I guess you'd say, where he would give me information and then I'd have to do it. And it got to the point where he realized real quick that hey, it's just as quick and easy for me to do this as it is to get Matt involved. And so already slowly started taking on, um, ordering the parts, checking his parts list to make sure that the pricing's correct. he does all of his permitting. And so the only thing I'm down to doing right now is the billing. And we have a full-time, or not full-time, but a part-time office staff that comes in, it's actually a CPA that's been doing our books for several years. They come in the office and do the payroll, and. All the accounts receivable.
And so the really, the only thing he needs to phase me out of now the billing cycle and the, and like I said, it's a half to an hour, [00:42:00] four days a week. So four and a half to five hours a week is all I'm taking off of his plate at the moment. So he should be able to phase into
Riley: you in that transfer So the by the time you step aside be any questions he has left
Matt: sure.
Riley: I I see that um commonly during transitions like that where you know the previous owner maybe just steps out too soon and leaves a lot of gap for that other person to try to make up And you'll and you'll see the business go through a bump you know like a a big uh a big speed bump It it causes cause they they just don't know what to do and they didn't adequately prepare the new owner or the employee that's taking over I've got a similar situation going on in my other business where I'm I'm gonna phase myself out over the next three years three and a half years And yeah that's a job right Is being very conscious of making sure these guys know have all the tools that they need to succeed [00:43:00] Because in in my situation I'm not giving that business away I'm selling it to them And so I want that investment to retain its value or grow Uh so this is important stuff right We see business owners screw this up on a pretty pretty regular basis
Matt: I,
Riley: I'm fascinated a bit too because you you mentioned that kind of burnout feel You you were feeling you were ready to be done almost at all costs Like you just you were done Done
Matt: yeah.
Riley: Um do you see tell me your thoughts on this but your business really it's a valuable asset and I think sometimes sometimes guys forget that and they start feeling that burnout How to phrase this Sometimes they just start to pull back and they let the business dissolve and it kind of just attrition uh over time takes that thing out Um [00:44:00] you were able to you were able to go through that kind of burnout stage without that really happening it sounds like Is that is that accurate
Matt: It is accurate, but I'm telling you right now, I was on the edge of the cliff. Uh, it was, it was everything in power to not jump off that cliff at any moment. So it was, it was close to hitting rock bottom and me just dissolving the business.
Riley: Well that's part of the the fascination I have cause that was the impression I got again talking to you outside of this podcast you've kind of that's been your mo for most of your life is you just push comes to shove you just grind you know And you may not love what's going on but you still Push Um this is called the Go Earn Your Salt podcast right And the idea of earning your salt What what comes to your mind when you hear that phrase
Matt: You know, the only thing I can think [00:45:00] of that comes to my mind is just don't give up. You know, people give up too easy anymore and 90, 90% of the time it's because it gets tough. And those people that are outstanding above the rest of the crowd in any application, whether it's work or sports or anything like that, you know, are the people that are not. So easy to give up when the tough gets tough, the tough get going, so to speak.
Riley: Yeah How many times have we heard that phrase and never really put it into Yeah realize what that means man
Matt: hundred
Riley: Um but man when you get down on the trenches and you're just grinding through life it's you're discouraged Things are tight life sucks You're just you're kind of in that fog of of war per se And yeah man you've you you've done a great job just grinding through that So
Matt: Yeah,
Riley: um
Matt: worth it for sure.
Riley: corner just a little bit here What would you [00:46:00] say a has been your most valuable learning experience
Matt: Um, I would probably have to bring my kid into this, you know, I've got a 12-year-old daughter and I was always a responsible adult. Um, I was running the business already at a young age and had no choice but to be responsible, but when my child came into my life, it was like, holy crap. There's a lot of different levels of responsibility that I need to step it up on, you know, she really put me, me in that mindset that I have more than just myself to, to put down to the grind for. so I would, I would honestly say that the birth of my child was the number one best learning experience of my life.
Riley: if uh if you had to go back and do your adult life all over again what would you change [00:47:00] Or would you would you
Matt: Oh, that's a, that's a tough one because looking at the outcome that I've got going on in my life right now, I'd have to say I wouldn't change a damn thing. But, you know, there's probably a lot of things I could have changed. For the good and the bad, but as a whole man, I really don't know that there's anything I would've changed much.
Riley: so that's important that you say that because you've in this conversation you've you've mentioned some pretty Difficult things you've gone through but yet looking back you mentioned that you know with your dad forcing you to into the plumbing trade and how you've grown to value that you know and then the the grind of of business and learning how they how it works and how to make it profitable and all that Um going through the recession period and almost losing everything And then you know you're you're [00:48:00] saying those hard things up being some of the most valuable experiences you could have had Am I am I hearing you right
Matt: percent. If you don't have tough times, you're never gonna under understand to enjoy the good times.
Riley: man I uh Yeah I I want the audience to hear that because I I think that's a common thread that I've learned from business owners but but just people in general who have succeeded in any venture the tough times are what makes them what they are And so when you're going through the slog and you're you're struggling through life look on those times fondly because that's where you're gonna learn some some lessons that will pay off later
Matt: I agree, for sure. I. And
Riley: Um
Matt: have lessons to learn if we don't have a reason to. was so easy and so peachy king all the time, would never have to [00:49:00] push and learn anything else because it's already there. But that's what life is awesome about is when you think that life is awesome, comes and smacks you upside the head and gives you a reality check, like no, you still got struggles to deal with bud.
Riley: Well you've you've had a couple things here recently That have uh smacked you upside the head Is that are you comfortable talking about that Yeah
Matt: you bet. Um, you know, yeah, like, like Ri said, you know, I get, I, go through this bliss time in my life where I was actually able to semi-retire, hand the business over to Paul get into my routine of being to the grind 24 7, to having a lot of time for myself. And so basically life got real good.
You know, I started golfing every day. I. Yeah, I started going fishing. Me and Riley reconnected and we went fishing several times, had some great times. life just made a turn for the best and I had nothing but [00:50:00] everything to be grateful for. then right about that time, I was golfing with some buddies of mine and I, realized that I was starting to have a little bit of a struggle of see the golf ball when it was landing on the green. And I didn't think nothing of it. And a couple more weeks went by and all of a sudden I realized I can't even see the ball hit the green anymore. And then fast forward another year and the golf ball would go out a 150 yards. And then I just couldn't see it anymore. And so I started speaking my concerns to some friends and family and whatnot, and they're like, well, hell man, you're in your forties.
You need to go get your eyes checked. You probably just need glasses. And that was a low blow to my And I was like, whatever, I guess I'll go see if I need glasses. And so I went to see an eye doctor. And he says, yeah, you definitely got some problems going on with your eyes, but we can't seem to get 'em fixed with regular prescription glasses.
I'm gonna need you to go to this, uh, specialist over in Ile Falls. And so he sent me to a [00:51:00] specialist. Specialist seen me, they couldn't find anything wrong and they said, my eyes look healthy, but again, they couldn't get the glasses to fix my vision like they normally can. One to two more specialists locally. Same story, getting frustrated. And they finally sent me to Moran Eye Center in U of U, Utah. And I was in a doctor's appointment from eight o'clock in the morning till five 15 at night without any breaks. were doing every test that you could possibly think of to try to figure out what was going on with my eyes. Anyway, the lady comes
Riley: that starts to
Matt: I was terrified, I thought for sure. It was something super bad and, and in my mind. The only thing I could keep thinking of was a tumor kept thinking I had a tumor in my head that was putting pressure on my eyes and causing some problems. That was the worst case scenario that I had.
But come to find out, after all the tests, the doctor came back and said, you know, we think you have a genetic [00:52:00] disease. We need to see if you're willing to join this, uh, trial of genetic testing. That's, uh, somebody's got a grant for it, so it's not gonna cost you any money, but we need to poke and prod you a little bit and take a DNA sample and put you in a database and see if it is a genetic, defect in your retina. So I agreed to it and about six months went by and the, the results finally came back that it was not genetic like they thought it was, but it was still a retinal disease of some sort. And so that's, that's kind of the hard part of the whole situation. Not only losing my vision at the moment, but. No answers because they didn't exactly have a name for the condition other than it's a retinal disease of some sort. There's no cure, there's no glasses that are gonna fix it, and there's just absolutely nothing we can do. And they literally sent me on my way. I wanted a second opinion and I got another [00:53:00] second opinion and got the same results. Um, so long story short, I found out that I had a retinal disease in both eyes. It's affecting my central vision and I had really good vision my whole life. And so again, back to taking things for granted, you know, it's not there, you have to go through the hard times. You don't realize how important things are.
So of a low blow, having some major vision problems over the last two and a half years.
Riley: I hadn't heard that second part that you had uh that they had determined it wasn't genetic cause I think last time you and I talked about it any depth they were thinking it was genetic at that time So is that a Is that a positive thing that it's not a genetic thing or is it just kind of put it in limbo till now you don't really know what's going on
Matt: It kind of just puts it in limbo. But the only thing about it not being a genetic testing is, um, they seem to be doing a lot more studies on the genetic side [00:54:00] of retinal diseases because it's kind of a more broad spectrum of retinal disease. And so I guess the downside is, is it is I'm dealing with, they're not doing quite as much research as they are on the genetic side of things.
Riley: So that's probably again a little discouraging in the kind of wish there was more going on there
Matt: sure.
Riley: a that's a bummer So where are you at in that now Have you you kind of mentioned to me last time we were we were fishing that you were plateaued a bit that things haven't been degrading as fast as they were
Matt: Yeah, I think that's true. Um, you know, one of the things that the doctor told me is that I asked her, I said, you know, how, how much longer do I have vision for? Like, how, how is this gonna play out? And she told me that every person's different. Um, everybody handles things different and everybody's body's different. So she told me, you could either continue on the path that you're on, could stop, it could slow [00:55:00] down, it could plateau, it could get worse. She says, everybody's different, so I cannot give you an answer. And so the first year. I felt like it went down at a pretty drastic pace where I was really scared to death that I was gonna lose my vision completely. And fast forward another year and a half, so two and a half total years after I realized I had the issue, feel like it's plateaued quite a bit and or at least slowed down a ton so that it's not progressing as fast as it was.
Riley: that's sort of good news man I'm yeah Bummed out to hear that's something you're struggling with Um switch gears a little bit You had another recent event that really I Gut checked you also Again if you're not comfortable talking about that
Matt: Yeah, no, I'm
Riley: okay but
Matt: You know? Yeah. The other gut check that I had, you know, I, um, one of the things I did that kind of backtrack and give a backstory here is, uh, my fiance and I decided that we were gonna buy a camp trailer and go on a, [00:56:00] a trip across the United States for the wintertime. And mainly it was because of my eyes. I told my fiance that, uh. I don't know how much longer I'm gonna be able to see. And so want to go see as much as I can now. So we took full advantage of that and went all the way down to Naples, Florida and back. that was a great trip. But right at the last tail end of our trip, we were back in Arizona we were probably thinking we were gonna stay about three more weeks. And all of a sudden we were in Yuma, Arizona and got a phone call from one of my nephews. He was on the phone with his wife and they were both sobbing so bad, I couldn't even understand what they were saying. And got it out of him that my nephew was calling to, uh, informed that my oldest brother, Mike, um, had passed away. And so obviously, you know, had five other siblings. There were six kids in the family, and I was the youngest. That particular brother that passed away [00:57:00] was the same brother we talked about earlier I worked for. he taught me, taught me the ins and outs of pretty much everything I needed to know to get out on my own.
And so that was a, that was a tragic loss for sure. uh, you know, to go into more depth, probably more information than anybody needs. But the, the part about that depth that really made it hard was my brother was dealing with a step kid in his house that was mentally challenged and he wasn't always mentally challenged.
You know, he was a good kid. And until his mid twenties, he started having really bad mental issues he was living in my brother's house with his wife. And the way that my brother lost his life was, after several months of dealing with this, my nephew, um, went into his room and actually stabbed my brother to death.
So we didn't only lose my brother, we lost our nephew as well, and then had to face the fact that our nephew took my brother's life. [00:58:00] So yeah, that was a huge blow.
Riley: man gosh this breaks my heart I uh and that was time of this recording what are we're three months away from that
Matt: Yep,
Riley: Something like Yeah So pretty recent still pretty fresh
Matt: for sure.
Riley: Um yeah man Um I want to turn the corner I know this That's some some pretty difficult stuff Um got this I wanna switch gears to kind of some lighter stuff you know where um I wanna know what from here where you go what where what are you gonna do next
Matt: Um, you know, I'm kind of still in that mode that I told you I was in about living down here in my means. 'cause I'm scared that it's gonna happen again, even though I'm not in the business any longer and I don't really have anything to lose in the business [00:59:00] side of things. You know, I, I invested into a big apartment complex about six years ago.
Um, I developed a piece of land, um, in Chepe, Idaho, and we put 11 fourplexes on there. So we got 44 apartment units, and obviously I wasn't wealthy enough to, to fund that project without getting in substantial loan. And so I ended up taking out about a, I think it ended up being a total of about $3.4 million loan to do that project.
And I know from the experiences that I've had, unfortunately, that there's gonna be tough times come along again. And so right now I'm really focused on just getting those mortgages paid down as fast as I possibly can and snowball those down to where if the storm comes, then I'm gonna be able to weather it again.
And so I'm really close to that point. You know, I put myself on a strict payoff situation, and I'm approximately four years off from that. And I think that I'm [01:00:00] probably gonna end up just keep investing into the real estate market. I'll probably get a loan on one of the apartment buildings that I have once it is paid off and I have a big cushion there. And then I'll probably either build something else or buy something else and just start increasing the amount of properties that I have in the real estate portfolio that I'm dealing with.
Riley: Yeah I hadn't done the math I didn't I remember we talked a couple years ago about how many buildings you had there but I didn't realize there was 11 of them
Matt: Yeah,
Riley: And then you have some some too don't you
Matt: I do. Yep. I have four other homes, um, that are single family dwelling homes. Um, and then we also have a cabin in Island Park that I had mentioned that my cousin and my brother and I purchased from my grandpa. So estate's definitely been a big, big influence in my life. For sure.
Riley: just it man I I talked about earlier you know we we grew up together and and [01:01:00] nobody knows when you're kids and you're all hanging out what other people are gonna do And were always that kind of you weren't a real boisterous person You know you just got along with everybody and you you were steady Always steady And it seemed like that has translated to your adulthood right Where never did things with a lot of fanfare it was just steady steady steady And you've grown yourself into the entrepreneur Dude it's an it's an impressive story
Matt: Well, I appreciate it. You know, and again, I, like I told you, a lot of this stuff that's happened in my life, I feel like is kind of an accident. 'cause it was, of it was done in, in unintentional that just turned out to be a good, good situation. So it was, it was a little bit of, a lot of hard, a lot of hard work and determination and sacrifice, but. lot of the choices I made were quote unquote accidental, which was, I, you know, you know, I don't want to take it off of [01:02:00] my, my choices and my hard work, but I do think that a lot of it was luck and timing.
Riley: that because there's this uh you you've heard the term imposter syndrome
Matt: Mm-hmm.
Riley: right some things I've put together over the years as I've talked to business owners and entrepreneurs and you know just successful people in general but there's hardly ever a path to run on You're making it up as you go but only you know that And the people around you they see you growing and and doing certain things and building a business and the success that eventually comes with that they don't they don't see the heartache and the heartbreak that goes into that all the work and the grind So yeah the way you're saying that like you know you accidentally did it there was there was really no accident there Maybe the direction didn't it wasn't according to what you originally thought or your original plan for life but yeah there was a lot of purpose and and that went into that But it feels because you [01:03:00] see all the you see all the things that you you had to just kind of make it up as you went It can feel kind of accidental
Matt: Yeah, for sure.
Riley: like I I look at your situation from the outside and I go yeah I I see the purpose in it I see how dedicated you had to be and how you had to just build build build and do the things that know that you knew how to do and and learned how to do Um but yeah man I think every entrepreneur I've ever talked to every business owner I've ever talked to feels like they're just making it up and they of kind of happen to get there But the you've killed it man
Matt: Yeah, I appreciate it.
Riley: I've got a couple questions for you that are just on the lighter side of things Just some just some fun ones Um you you you you game to answer a few of those
Matt: Yeah, you bet you.
Riley: This is just something I I've been it's been bugging me recently but um if you eat a [01:04:00] cheeseburger do you ever get one of those where they make it upside down and put the veggies on the bottom Do you have veggies up or veggies down kind of guy
Matt: You know, it's funny you ask that because I've had obsessive compulsive disorder my whole life and it's with stuff like that. But yeah, it drives me nuts.
Riley: veggies up Or veggies down
Matt: Veggies should be on the top.
Riley: yeah I was taking points on that Um have you ever been in a fight
Matt: Um, it's been a long time, but yes. Yeah.
Riley: old were you when that happened
Matt: I was only in, uh, junior high the last time I got in a fight. You know, it, it wasn't a win or lose situation sort of thing. It was more of a, I heart checked a guy from, we were playing basketball and he was being completely aggressive and like I told you, in junior high, I was 125 pounds soaking wet. This [01:05:00] kid was six foot 2, 1 90. Felt like a brick shit house. And he was just roughing me around, man. And I just got a, I got to the point where I was just done taking it I just turned around and I heart checked him and pushed him on the ground and everybody thought he was gonna jump up and just pumble me. then just turned out to be a
Riley: huh
Matt: for a second.
Riley: end up with with actual blows thrown Huh
Matt: flying. No, it did not.
Riley: about that I imagine
Matt: I thought for sure I was gonna get my aunt my butt handed to me real quick and I would've,
Riley: Oh you uh you ever kicked outta school
Matt: um, I can't say I remember a time where I was ever kicked outta school. No, I was
Riley: Um
Matt: Yep. I
Riley: us about that
Matt: off the bus. Um, you know, back to the story we talked about earlier, baseball was a passion of mine. sitting at the, uh, bus stop in Chubb, [01:06:00] Idaho, and we had a fresh, fresh plowed potato field that we were sitting there waiting for the bus to show up. And I had this stupid bright idea that we were all gonna pick up little baby potato seedlings. And on the count of three while we were driving down the road, we were all gonna just throw the potato with the bus driver. And then that way none of us would get in trouble 'cause he couldn't figure out who did it. Well, we, uh, all grabbed potatoes and was time, and 1, 2, 3 was hauled out and everybody's hand came up and I was the only one in the entire bus that let go of the potato and
Riley: You got everyone else chickened
Matt: it hit the bus driver right in the back of the head and he was not happy. hit the brakes.
Riley: Jolly
Matt: I don't remember which bus driver it was.
I do not remember his name, but he was livid. And so he went to the principal and I got kicked off the bus.[01:07:00]
Riley: You know do you remember that guy Mr Jolly
Matt: I do, yeah.
Riley: Yeah cause we we both met at that same bus stop right cause you came down to Cole and Chubb Road
Matt: Yep,
Riley: right there at the Catholic church
Matt: yep.
Riley: Um so funny cause I got kicked off that same bus and had to go to the principal and then I had to go down to the actual whatever the school district where they kept the buses and they made me do classes because I was such a tote on the on the bus So I remember all that stuff too but yeah Um but at the end of the school year Mr Jolly pulls me up to the front of the bus man I thought oh crap what's going on And he gave me some like some candy bars and he told me that was the most improved kid on the bus for the year So
Matt: I don't
Riley: it was pretty dang funny Bus driver giving me candy It was weird but I enjoyed it
Matt: That's funny.
Riley: Um [01:08:00] oh dude I didn't know the potato story though That's fantastic Um okay so bucket list challenge man What what's what's something on your bucket list you want to get done in the near future
Matt: you know, I think the bucket list that I've got right now at this moment, um, I've traveled all over the United States in several countries. Um, I love to travel, but of the most beautiful destinations in the world that I've heard about for years is right the corner of our backyard, and that's Glacier National Park. I have yet to spend any time in Glacier National Park, and so I think that I'm gonna, schedule a trip to go up through there and spend some time and actually see it.
Riley: that'd be awesome man Yeah I've never been there either A buddy of mine goes up there on a pretty regular basis and he's got some yeah some of the pictures I see Just amazing
Matt: Yeah, and
Riley: Um
Matt: it's right in our backyard.
Riley: it's wild So many places right around here that I've never visited Yeah [01:09:00] So tell me this um do you have a book recommendation
Matt: Um, you know, talked about this earlier in the conversation that I never was a fan of, uh, schoolwork and I never delve into schoolwork. And one of the things about school that I absolutely despise and that caused me not to like school was I have a really hard time comprehending when I read. And maybe that's a learning disability that I've dealt with my whole life. Or maybe it's just I don't like it. But one of the, nonetheless, I do not read much. And so I wish I had a recommendation for a book, but I don't, 'cause I just unfortunately don't read much. Um, I've done a couple of audio books, but I have a short attention span. Um, I probably have A-D-H-D-A little bit. I wouldn't be surprised, but at the time I don't finish 'em.
Riley: an encouragement ma'am cause a lot of times people um I They act like that lack of ability to just sit in a classroom setting and sit and read is a you know is a disability [01:10:00] I'm not sure it is man I think sometimes it's a it's just a different bent I think it's a different um can almost be a superpower in some ways you know And and so I I do kinda like to hear you say that because you're not the only one especially when I see you know business owners or athletes or that sort of thing that man the sit down kind of classroom work is difficult for them
Matt: Yeah.
Riley: and but they can so good at so many other things uh that the school system doesn't necessarily lend itself to Right But yeah it has nothing to do with a person's overall intelligence It just has to do with that single activity that's difficult So
Matt: It's funny you
Riley: I'm
Matt: up about the audio books 'cause my, uh, my stepson is 27 years old. Um, he's actually a pretty inspirational person too. He, he is a workout buff and loves to exercise and takes really good care of his body. But anyway, I brought him up is he, he sent me a text message yesterday [01:11:00] with two different audio books and he says, dude, you've gotta listen to these.
They're the greatest. And so I've already had it on my list to listen to two audio books that he told me about. Um, I don't, but I got my phone right here. I can pull it up and see. Um, he texted me last night, um, and he put in two different options here, see if I can get my phone to work. Okay, so the first one that he sent me was actually the gentleman that just passed away off of Duck Dynasty. And it's called Happy, happy, happy Phil Robinson. And I haven't looked it up yet. But, uh, for those you know, don't know Phil Robinson, he was the Duck Dynasty star that just passed away. And he was a very spiritual, um, man, which used his spirituality for a lot of influence for good, which was cool.
And then the second one actually one of my favorite actors of all [01:12:00] times, and it's, uh, Matthew McConaughey. And the title of this one is Green Lights by Matthew McConaughey. And I think that
Riley: my wife
Matt: motivational speakers more than it is a book. But either way, I think it's gonna be worth a listen.
He,
Riley: Yeah You'll tell me how this turned out I um my wife just read one by Matthew McConaughey was like his biography dude's got a fascinating life man
Matt: does,
Riley: Yeah
Matt: human being.
Riley: alright my friend Well listen I uh I told you an hour We're about eight minutes overdue here So
Matt: Okay.
Riley: I uh I wanna time I know you probably you probably got some golfing to go do today
Matt: Yeah, a little
Riley: but uh
Matt: sure.
Riley: being on here. I, uh, yeah, I really appreciate you doing it, dude. I,
Matt: you
Riley: I said, you, you feel like your it's cool.
Matt: Well, it's a story and it's my story, so take it for what you want, I guess.[01:13:00]
Riley: well, thank you my friend.
Matt: I thank you. Thanks for the
Riley: Appreciate
Matt: You have a great day. All
Riley: earn your salt, Matt.
Matt: do.