Kasey Kuker: [00:00:00] the, one of my friends, uh, she decided to sign me up for my first marathon as a surprise.
Riley: welcome to the show today we have Kasey Kuker on here, and Kasey and I met, oh, just a few weeks ago at the Pocatello Marathon. And Pocatello is a small town in Idaho of about 60,000 people, and it's where I grew up. I was there for the salt, electrolytes, you know, promotion event. And Kasey come up to me and we just got into conversation about a [00:01:00] goal that she has been working on for a little while, and it was much faster than I thought, but it was to run a marathon in 50 states on all 50, and she completed that. I want to talk to her about that today.
So, Kasey, welcome to the show.
Kasey Kuker: Thank you so much, Riley I'm, I'm honored to be on your podcast
Riley: today.
cool to talk to you there. I was, I talked to a few, actually, I think by the time the weekend or the, the day was over, we were just a one day event, but by the time it was there, I had met, gosh, 15 people I think, that had completed all
Kasey Kuker: 50.
Riley: Wow, that's fantastic.
you was the speed that you did it in.
I, I was kind of shocked because of logistics of that. Right? And so
Kasey Kuker: Yes.
a
Riley: about that goes on. You know, we, we talk with, with high achievers on here. And, but first let's talk about Kasey, who she is, where she grew up, what life looked like as a kid.
Kasey Kuker: Okay. Okay, great. [00:02:00] Yes, so I was, I was born and raised in a small town of Ironwood, Michigan. So that's in the upper peninsula. It's right on the border of Wisconsin. So, um, lovely town. Absolutely beautiful. I, I try to go back and visit as much as possible. Um, my whole family still lives there, and it's just an outdoor enthusiasts paradise.
Uh, everything you can imagine outdoors as well as many beautiful waterfalls. Um, hiking Lake Superior, of course. My, my parents' house is about 20 miles south of Lake Superior, so that's pretty much where my sister and I, uh, went every summer. So,
Riley: spent any time out in the Midwest. You know, it's, uh, something I definitely wanna do. My, my son's got a bunch of friends over in Michigan and he, he, uh, yeah, he loves to go out there and likes the scenery and just [00:03:00] likes all the, because they call Michigan Land Land of a thousand Lakes, right?
Is that the,
Kasey Kuker: uh, Minnesota.
Yes. So
Riley: That's
Kasey Kuker: Minnesota is, yes. Mm-hmm.
Riley: or 10,000. I can't
Kasey Kuker: 10,000. You got it. You, you had it right? Yes.
Riley: So, um, so this running thing, like, you know, a lot of people it talk about running almost like it's torture. But you got something to say about that, I imagine.
And, and you know, I've, I, uh, I'm a, I'm a running fan. I've, I've kind of backed off that in the last few years because I, I've been in the juujitsu world and been really focused there, but always plan on getting back to, to running. And, and so talk about that part, like what, what eventually took you that direction?
Kasey Kuker: That's that's an excellent question. And for a while I would 100% agree with you that running was torture. Um, in high school I was on the tennis team, so, [00:04:00] um, if, if we did not play well, if we lost a game, whatever the, you know, the cause we had to run. And none of us really liked running, so I, I always saw running as a punishment.
It wasn't, wasn't something fun. It was, you did something wrong, you need to go run. And that kind of changed, uh, when I got my first job at, at Mayo Clinic in the laboratories. And a couple of my coworkers loved running and I did not understand them. Um, but I wanted to get the, to know them more. I wanted, you know, hopefully make good friendships.
So I said, well, why not? Let's give it a try. So they were running five Ks and 10 Ks and, and I joined them for a couple of those races and discovered that I actually do really like it. And it's, it doesn't have to be a punishment. It, it's a fun thing. We'd go run around the Minnesota Zoo [00:05:00] or, uh, run around a course where there are live bands.
And it was in those environments, it was seen as a very positive, fun thing. And, um. Uh, the, one of my friends, uh, she decided to sign me up for my first marathon as a surprise.
So
Riley: Hey, by the
shoot. So this was a
half, you
Kasey Kuker: it was a full,
it was, it was, a, it was a full marathon.
Riley: surprise. Just signed you up for this. You didn't know about it, but you're about to do 26.2 miles.
Kasey Kuker: Exactly. Yes.
Riley: run up to that point? What was your farthest distance?
Kasey Kuker: Um, a a 10 K, so 6.2 miles.
Riley: miles and you could go 20 more. Yeah,
this
Kasey Kuker: Right, right. What's another 20 more?
So
Riley: before the you you were signed up for this thing?
Kasey Kuker: [00:06:00] this was approximately, I wanna say November, and the marathon was May 1st
of the next year. So.
Riley: going from longest ever as a 10 K to a 26 2. Uh, you know, that's what, six months? Um.
Kasey Kuker: Right.
Not a lot of time.
Riley: time.
Kasey Kuker: Exactly.
Yes. It actually went really well. Um, I mean, I couldn't walk for a solid week because I, I just, you know, we, we did a bunch of 10 Ks together. We did a half marathon together leading up to it. But, um, that, that was the furthest I I ran was that half marathon beforehand. So definitely not enough training.
Hadn't, we had no idea what we were doing.
Um, just decided well just go out. It was the big SIR marathon, um, out in California on highway one.
So very hilly. [00:07:00] Yes, yes. Um, so. I, I survived. I was, I was still walking afterward. I, I don't know how I happened to run it under four hours. Um, and we, we ran it to support the American Cancer Society as well.
So we also raised some funds for that cause, which was very, very special. So, um, it, it could have been really bad, but it was actually a great experience.
Riley: kind of curious 'cause you, you said something earlier. Um, I, I, I do want to go down this, this path where you're talking about, with almost making too big a jumps from, you know, training, training run of 13.2 or 13.1, excuse me. And, and then jumping all the way to, to double that. Um, and not being able to walk for a week as a result.
You know, and I do
want
Kasey Kuker: Yes.
Riley: come
back to that.
Kasey Kuker: Okay.
Riley: I wanna
back up a
because you, you said running had been punishment, which was, to me, [00:08:00] as you said, that kind of enlightening because I, I, I never really thought about how many of us through, you know, junior high, high school, gosh. When I played baseball, if we, if we did something wrong, if we were late for, uh, late to practice, yeah.
We got to run and it was always a punishment. I never really thought about that as a factor on why maybe people don't like running. Um, Yeah.
Kasey Kuker: I, I think that's a great reflection and I, I completely agree with you. It's running, it running as punishments unless you are in track or cross country. I, I feel like that that is your punishment for, for most other sports.
Riley: Right.
Kasey Kuker: Yes, there are pushups.
Riley: Do, um, so did you run any cross country? Did you do any of that?
Kasey Kuker: I dabbled in it in high school. Um. Wasn't very serious about it. I actually, I, I was in CrossCountry until the first meet, which was around a, a [00:09:00] very hilly golf course, and then I was done, that was it. Then I went back to tennis.
Riley: uh, the reason I'm kind of asking there is because there was, I, I knew people who ran and they enjoyed it. I never, I was one of those, I never understood, I didn't actually start running until I was, 28.
Kasey Kuker: Okay.
Riley: I,
I
was this would skip, I, I,
learned this we would do runs in, in our junior high
PE
Kasey Kuker: I,
Riley: would
the teams into an, you know, a set of students was the a, a team who would run the first half of the class
Kasey Kuker: okay.
Riley: get
there, you
know, 15 two miles or whatever it happened to be.
We were running that day. And then the second set would go well. What I would do is I would, uh, I would wait as. Group two. And then as soon as group one went in, I would fall in with them and just start, you know, fake breathing hard and walk around like I was tired and they just lost track of me in the crowd.
And so I wouldn't run anything. I didn't run my entire eighth grade year at all.
Kasey Kuker: That's [00:10:00] so sneaky.
Riley: but I regretted it later. I was like, man, what a, what a pansy. 'cause I, in seventh grade run, sub six 30 miles as a, you know, 13-year-old. Right. So I was reasonable, but I didn't think so. 'cause we had this one kid who ran a 4 57 mile
Kasey Kuker: Wow.
Riley: I remember thinking, I'm a slow turd, you know, not realizing at all that six 30 is not really that bad that age group,
you
Kasey Kuker: Right.
Riley: Um, but that was the end of it. I just, I wasn't even close to him and I was just felt like, yeah, why bother? I'm, I suck at this and that.
So I
Kasey Kuker: Oh.
Riley: it until later.
But then, you know, I. Because I pushed that pace as a kid. That's what I remembered is that that pain of that, like I was on the edge of my, you know, I just thought we had to run as fast as we could all the time. And as an adult I would go, you know, run around the block or I'd go, you know, try [00:11:00] to do a mile and about kill me. And I didn't realize you could actually slow down and have a manageable pace.
Kasey Kuker: oh. Yes. Yes, and yes. I, I think that's also a very common belief is if I'm running it, I'm running in as hard as I possibly can, but that mean that's not marathoning. That's, I mean, if you are, if you're doing a mile or maybe a 5K, sure you wanna go as hard as you possibly can the whole time. But if you're going a longer distance, sure.
We need to kind of think about pace and, um, you know, saving yourself for the last 10 K of the marathon. So.
Riley: because it, it seems silly that I didn't put that together, right. Um, I went out as an adult, I'd hit kind of the highest weight I ever hit. I was on 240 pounds and that's when I started running. Right. And
it
Kasey Kuker: Okay.
Riley: a,
friend of
mine talked and I got out there and I ran, and I'm [00:12:00] like, I'm looking at, I had a, um, a little GPS that would kind of tell me the pace I was running. And so I'm trying to hit like a seven 30 pace at 240 pounds, right?
Kasey Kuker: Wow,
Riley: I'm
Kasey Kuker: that's impressive.
Riley: am I a 10 k or a half marathon? And there's no way I can sustain this for that length of time. And, and came out with me one day, this guy that invited me and he says, he, we, we take off running on this, on this, uh, little route.
We were going up in the foothills of Boise and he. He is just going so slow. And I'm like, what are we doing? I thought we were running. And he's like, how far do you think we're going, dude? Like, no, this is what running looks like. And that was the first time that ever occurred to me. Slow down.
Kasey Kuker: Oh, well that's, I think that's so cool and, you know, major props for you for going after it as an adult, giving it a, a chance and, you know, trying new things can be scary sometimes, so
that's great.[00:13:00]
Riley: Um, so I asked you, you know, and I, I want to hear a little bit more, but when you had that revelation that there was a way to enjoy running, what, what was it that kind of kicked you over that edge?
Kasey Kuker: I think it was the, the community, um, the amount of people who were there. Doing that race and everybody was smiling and laughing and going at their own pace. Sure, there were people who were super fast and just trying to crush it, but others, most, most of the other people in, in those races were just simply running with other friends and smiling and having what seemed to be a really good time.
So I, I think it was just seeing, you know, all in all ages, um, all, all body types, uh, it was just kind of like a, a [00:14:00] whole, whole community. Anybody can do this kind of feeling that that turned it around for me.
Riley: a fun environment, right? You get out there and there's, there's the crowds that are in tutu's, the
Kasey Kuker: Yes.
Riley: you know, there you know, one dude in the group that's like wearing jeans and runs the whole thing. And yeah.
The
Kasey Kuker: so jealous.
Riley: we, we've got a guy around here that uh, different events, but he, He always shows up in these cutoff jeans and they're tight, they're like the tight ones they're afraid, and I, I don't know how he does it and doesn't just chafe out
Kasey Kuker: He must wear a lot of body Glide or something.
Riley: yeah. yeah. So people who aren't runners, there's some funny things that happen in the, in the running world and when you start, especially, you start getting up, know, above 10 k, just really about anything above 10 K. Especially for guys, we, don't have undergarments under our shirts and so we have to put bandaids on our [00:15:00] little nipples 'cause we, it'll wear your t-shirt will wear them off. I was. I was riding my mountain bike one day and there was an event going on in our foothills, and it's an off-road race.
Kasey Kuker: Okay.
Riley: miles or
something, was
And this poor dude comes running by me, he's got a white shirt on, and it's just two blood marks all the way
down
to
Kasey Kuker: Oh.
Riley: belly.
And I,
Kasey Kuker: Ouch.
Riley: had to
laugh because your bandaids.
Do you
Kasey Kuker: Oh, unfortunately that that's a, a scene in most races. It, it's, uh, yeah, the, the blood dripping down the chest.
Riley: realize it's, it's sensitive. Then you're, yeah. Then you're sore for a week.
Kasey Kuker: I,
Riley: uh, you, you,
Glide, that kinda reminded me of that. 'cause again, folks who don't know, that's a, like a, oh, what do you, what do you call that? Like a lubricant, right?
That
Kasey Kuker: yes.
Riley: put
in those that rub and you can get 'em all over the place.
Kasey Kuker: Yeah, absolutely.
Riley: Um, tell us [00:16:00] about this wall of metals you got behind you there.
Kasey Kuker: Oh,
Riley: for
different what's different distances?
Kasey Kuker: they, they, so it's, it's every race I've done since, since I ran my first race, and I keep them in order.
Uh, so it's, it's all distances. Um, marathons, halves, 10 miles, 10 Ks, five Ks. Uh, so I displayed those behind me on the wall. And then I have one of those like scrapbook people who, who do scrapbooking, one of those.
I keep all of my race bibs in, in order of, of the races I've done. So
Riley: That's a lot. So do you, do you have a count? How many have you done?
Kasey Kuker: I just pocatello a couple, a few weeks ago was my 71st marathon. Um, I think I'm up to 65 half marathons.
I, I am really not sure [00:17:00] on the other, the other races, how many 10 mile 10 Ks I've done.
Riley: I, don't think people realize how unusual that is. I mean, that's, that's pretty impressive.
Kasey Kuker: Thank You
Riley: of us, medals, like seven and I don't
even
Kasey Kuker: Okay. '
Riley: em. 'cause
I, to just like they were around and maybe they're still around somewhere. My wife would know.
I don't
Kasey Kuker: Okay.
Riley: my
bookshelf. But,
Kasey Kuker: Okay.
Riley: I
look back yours and there's, it looks like you need heavy duty, like to reinforce that wall to hold all that weight up.
Kasey Kuker: Probably should, I probably should have checked the sustainability of the wall before putting 'em all up there.
Oh, funny.
Riley: these days you'll laying on the floor
Kasey Kuker: Oh, hopefully not anytime soon. I have it written down. Don't worry.
Riley: my goodness. See you a little bit. Uh, OCD there, [00:18:00] huh?
Kasey Kuker: I, yes. Yes,
definitely. I.
Riley: Let's get back to this. Uh, I said I'd, I'd bring it back around and I, I want to, I wanna do that to, to this training thing, right? What's a good training strategy? What advice would you give somebody who's wanting to go from, know, like I.
did from a sedentary life to a life of running?
What's, what's the way to step into that and not kill themselves?
Kasey Kuker: That's a great question. I think finding, um, finding a decent plan, um, whether reaching out to a certified coach or online, there are all sorts, like Hal Higden is a pretty, pretty famous one. Um, but finding a plan that works for you, for your lifestyle, how much time do you have? Um, but absolutely not, not going from couch to marathon is, I would not, I would not recommend that.
So I, [00:19:00] I think one of the big things that I usually recommend is if you wanna start running and you wanna keep up with it, is to find a goal race. That is six to nine months down the road, and it's a reasonable goal for your lifestyle. So if you're super busy, maybe it's a 10 k or a half marathon, if you have more time, maybe it is a marathon, but finding a plan that gradually builds up mileage while also incorporating some rest days and like real rest days.
And I didn't really figure that out until a few years ago. That rest actually means no running. It's not, oh, just three, four miles. No, it's zero, it's zero miles. Um, so having a rest day or two, and then also I, I think there are just such huge benefits to cross training as well, so you're not beating up the same muscles over and over.
But, so finding a, a goal race that's a reasonable distance in the [00:20:00] future. And then just building up to that. Um, another, another big thing I highly recommend is finding a community. Uh, get ahold of the, your local run club or, uh, maybe you have a friend who, who does like running and they'd be willing to get you started on, you know, some, maybe some walk runs to start with, and then gradually, um, move that up to just running, um, and then building up mileage that way as well.
So many options.
Riley: that's good advice. 'cause you, um, you, you mentioned finding a local run club, right? And
Kasey Kuker: Mm-hmm.
Riley: where, where,
would that sort of thing?
Kasey Kuker: I think, uh, even a quick Google search, so like, uh, you know, in Pocatello just search for Pocatello running, or Pocatello Run Club or even, um, going to your local running store because they, they probably have those [00:21:00] resources as well, but. Here. If you search Rochester running or Rochester Running Club, our, you know, our club will come up and we have a, you know, a whole website of resources and we, we actually do have a program for beginning runners as well.
We call it the Step Project. Uh, so we have a 5K and a, yes.
Riley: cool.
Kasey Kuker: Mm-hmm.
Riley: tell us
what that is.
Kasey Kuker: Sure.
Riley: you know
that?
Kasey Kuker: It's Rochester running club.org.
Riley: And on that could be a plan. 'cause I think that's a big deal. Uh, you know, you talked about that jump from half marathon the way up to marathon, which is, you know, we, we alluded to it, but it's, that's Way too big.
of a jump
Kasey Kuker: Way too big.
Riley: to Right? You can do it. You did it,
Kasey Kuker: Yes.
Riley: you
suffered
for it.
Right?
Kasey Kuker: Right,
right. And I mean, I, I was much younger as well, so a little bit more resilience in, in the, the younger body. Uh, [00:22:00] so also maybe younger people could do it, but I, right. I still suffered for a solid week. Uh, walking was tough.
Riley: it, were you dealing with shin splints or just hips and hip flexors and all that kind of stuff to get sore
Kasey Kuker: Oh yeah. Hip flexors and, and quads and hamstrings. Uh, just trying to sit down on a chair was painful. So
gradual
Riley: You,
Kasey Kuker: increase. I highly recommend.
Riley: like how gradual, let's say let's, uh, I've heard the rule that it's like no more than 10% per week.
Kasey Kuker: Mm-hmm.
Riley: that even when I'm, when I've been going through a plan and I'm like, gosh, you know, 10% a week's even a little aggressive. Maybe not once you get to a certain condition.
I think once you're maybe in half marathon condition to add another 10% per week might be okay. But, that, that first, you know, 5K or [00:23:00] 10 K, that 10% seems pretty aggressive.
Kasey Kuker: Yes,
I, I completely agree with you. Um, well, I think listening to your body is the most important part of ramping up. So I, I think you're right. Most plans do say 10%, but you know, if you're not, if your body isn't feeling 10%, it's also okay to stop because you're, you're helping your body, uh, a lot more by, you know, stopping at seven miles versus if your plant said 10 and you're just aching and not feeling it.
It's a way smarter decision to stop at seven than to say, no, I'm tough. I I'm, I'm gonna push through this. I'm gonna get to 10. 'cause that's what my plan says.
so
Riley: So
that's, And I imagine you've probably struggled with that too. I just, you know, maybe, maybe not, but that little
ego hit
hit my goal today be tough to deal [00:24:00] with. What, what kind of, what do you do to deal with that?
Kasey Kuker: Oh, that's, that is the toughest and that is something, yeah, I think it's just sometimes it's, uh, you learn the hard way and, uh, you get, uh, you know, it band stress and, uh, you know, overuse injuries in your, your tendon and, and, and then. You know, uh, then you learn, then you learn, okay, I should have stopped.
Um, but it is difficult when you commit to a plan and, um, especially, uh, especially runners and, uh, we're so bad. Um, you know, you see that number, uh, on your plan for that Saturday long run. And, and you just need to hit it because you're a, you're, you're a tough marathoner and, and this is what you do, and it's, it's gonna hurt on race day.
So we need to know what it feels like to hurt [00:25:00] during training, but it's just not worth it sometimes.
Riley: I think sometimes I, I did this thing one time where I overdid it, then I ended up with, um, with shin splints, right? And once you cross that line and end up with badge, then it's hard to rebuild from there
Kasey Kuker: Yes.
Riley: the
time you
To undo those things and then ramp back up, that can offset an entire event.
Like you end up missing the event because you overdid it one day. Uh, speak to that a little bit. Have you ever, um, have you ever dealt with the one of those nagging injuries that had made you not be able to complete an event?
[00:26:00]
Kasey Kuker: Yes, yes. Unfortunately, uh, these, the injuries that, that we get, uh, marathoners get, do, do, take us out for, it's not a day. It's like six to eight weeks, and it's devastating. Um, it's devastating not only mentally, but also to the bank account because, uh, you know, you've, you've paid hundreds of dollars for the registration and the hotel and the flight and you know, whatever else.
And sure, you can still go. [00:27:00] Um. But it's, it's incredibly disheartening. So, um, highly recommend just, you know, listening to your body when, when something is, is, it's more than, you know, the typical soreness. It's stabbing or it's, um, so extremely painful. Just, just to stop and back off. Um, because yes, I, I have missed a couple races and it, oh, the, the FOMO is terrible, you know, seeing,
seeing all the race photos and, right, right.
Yes. Like, oh, I should have.
Riley: that's, it's, it's a terrible thing. So I, I started doing the barefoot running thing back in the, you know, 2000. 10, you know, when it was becoming the thing, and I was the guy who went out too far too fast on feet that had always been in shoes. And I broke something in, in my foot [00:28:00] and it was
Kasey Kuker: Oh no.
Riley: for a
10 KI K. And I, I don't know what I did, but it was just, you know, I overdid a run and I say I broke it. I don't know that I actually did. I never had it really looked at, you know, but I, I couldn't hardly walk for several weeks.
Kasey Kuker: Oh, no.
Riley: was bad limping. up doing the event instead of me because I, I was signed up and we didn't wanna let the, know, you mentioned the finances part of it, and it was like, we're not, we're not letting that bib number go. She's gonna
be
Kasey Kuker: Right?
Riley: day.
uh, yeah, it was because I didn't have patience.
Right.
Kasey Kuker: Mm-hmm.
Riley: there and,
and overdid following year I ended up doing a half marathon of barefoot, and it was, it was cool,
but
Kasey Kuker: Wow.
Riley: I
built up
Kasey Kuker: Yes, yes. Very smart.
Riley: you mentioned something that, uh, you know, the thing that sparked the conversation between you and I was your goal to do a marathon in all 50 states.
Kasey Kuker: Yes.
Riley: You mentioned the
of that, you mentioned the, you know, [00:29:00] just the airplane tickets and hotels and all this kind of stuff. Um, tell us this first, what year did you start that process, and then how long did it take you to finish all 50?
Kasey Kuker: Okay. So I, I ran that first marathon in at Big Sur in California. That was, uh, may of 2011. And at that point I had no idea what the Boston Marathon was. I, I really just was not educated at all in, in running or the running world or the hype or anything about it. Um, but the, the feeling that. I, I can't even put into words crossing the finish line of that marathon.
Really just, just being so naive and not knowing what I was doing, but just the, the elation that I felt, I, I guess I didn't think I could actually do it. And until it actually happened, it just really sparked a fire in me. [00:30:00] Um, so I went to school in Duluth at UMD, and that's the big grandma's marathon. It's pretty, pretty popular, big event in June.
And I, I had been studying there over the summers too, doing research, and I went, I went out and cheered on the runners and just thought, oh, those people are so cool. Wow. What a, what a great event. And, and everybody gathers, uh, usually in the last six miles along the course and, and just really cheers the runner, cheer the runners on.
Really loudly, and, and there's a big party and there are bands afterward. And I just thought, gosh, if I ever, if I ever run a marathon, I think it would have to be grandmas because this, this is the kind of environment and supports that I, I think would really help me get to that finish line. Um, so that grandmas ended up being my second marathon because that, that fire from my first [00:31:00] one really, you know, I'm like, okay, I, I can be that person, uh, so I'm gonna do it.
Um, and then at grandmas I qualified for Boston
and I, I,
Riley: Pause a second.
Okay,
Kasey Kuker: okay.
Riley: so this is your
second
Kasey Kuker: Yes.
Riley: and you so I just wanna put this in context because when you're talking about the New York City Marathon or, or Boston or one of these big ones, and you say qualify, people have to understand what that means. So what
Kasey Kuker: Okay.
Riley: pace that you
have to 26.2 miles in order to qualify for these?
Kasey Kuker: That's a great question. Uh, so it depends on your age and gender. Um, so at that time, I actually still, um, in my, that age group, I needed to run, uh, 3 35,
[00:32:00] uh, marathon time.
Correct.
Riley: to
be good at what,
Kasey Kuker: That's approximately like an 8, 8 10, maybe per mile
is, is a 3 35.
Riley: So, you
know,
there's no qualifying for one of those in this, in this guy. Um,
yeah.
Kasey Kuker: you never know. Maybe.
Riley: a 5K and I averaged 7 57 because I broke that eight, eight meter or eight minute Uh, I
Kasey Kuker: Yes.
Riley: Yeah. So to be at kind of right close to that pace for 26, to me is mind blowing. It's
mind
Kasey Kuker: Oh,
well, thank you.
Riley: so with that. Yeah. Yeah.
It's
Kasey Kuker: Oh, thank you. Um, oh, you brought up a great point just now though, is that, um, that was your goal to run it, run it sub eight minute miles. [00:33:00] And that's another thing that I just, I absolutely love about running is because it's, it's your own personal goals. You're, you're really only competing against yourself.
So it's, you know, it's the goals that you set for yourself and if you can accomplish those, I, I just think that's, that's amazing and that's so personalized to running. There really isn't another sport where you're just competing against yourself.
Riley: competing against myself, so the guy that I was knocking off the path on the run, shoving in the bushes that I shouldn't have done that.
Kasey Kuker: Oh, that's funny.
I mean, if, was he in your age group? Because, no,
Riley: he had a lot of more gray hair, so I don't It could have been, I'm just kidding. that's
Kasey Kuker: that's hilarious.
Riley: I with that. So, so back to what you were saying. So you, you, you did this second, your second event ever, and you qualify [00:34:00] for Boston.
Kasey Kuker: Yes.
Riley: I'm
still on that 'cause that's, that's just crazy impressive for marathon number two. But let's keep, keep going on that. So you go from two to past that point.
Kasey Kuker: Yes. Yes. So, um, it, it was one of my lab friends at work who was, she was the one who pointed out that I qualified. She looked at my time and she said, oh my gosh, Kasey, you can register for Boston. And I was like, what? You know, what's the big deal?
Yes.
Riley: Oh, That's not fair.
Kasey Kuker: Oh gosh. So fast forward to, I don't know, a couple months down the road where she, um, uh, she was my best friend. She moved to Hawaii,
and, uh, she was like, why don't you come out and visit me this December and run the Honolulu marathon? [00:35:00] So I, you know, didn't, you know, twist my arm, go to Hawaii. Uh, so I went out there, um, that year in December, I run the Hun Honolulu Marathon was my third.
And then I did register for Boston and I ran Boston and that was my fourth. And, um, it, it was during that time that, that I had. You know, you, you start running these races and you start meeting people from the running community and, and I heard about this thing called the 50 States Club, and I just thought, well, I have four states done.
You know, let, why not run the other 46?
So,
Riley: You got one of the harder ones to get out too, right?
Kasey Kuker: exactly. Yes, yes. So, so it was really then, um, that I thought, let, let's just make this a, a really big goal and, uh, let, let's cap it at let's, [00:36:00] I'm gonna run 50 states by age 50, and I thought that was pretty reasonable, you know, about, about two a year, um, that. Averaged out to be. So I started on this journey.
I started looking, look, okay, what's, what's the next state I'm gonna pick? And, um, started meeting some people along the way who, uh, were also either interested and also doing it or just wanted to travel to certain places to also run there. So, um, uh, made some travel buddies and we started, uh, traveling to these different places and, and running these courses.
And then I met, uh, the president of the time of the 50 sub four Marathon Club. And, uh, his, his name is Bob, Bob Kennedy, um,
passed away.
Riley: What does
Kasey Kuker: So that means all 50 states, [00:37:00] uh, under four hours. So a marathon in each state under four hours.
Riley: Your wild bunch.
Kasey Kuker: Very wild. Very, very wild. Yes. So, so he was wearing the, the branded gear, the, the 50 sub four. And we started talking about it. And at that point I had, oh, I think I had run 10 or 11 marathons at that point. And he said, well, as as long as you've run in 10 different states, you can join us. And it, it's, it's free.
And we keep track of, of all your results and all of your states for you. And then, uh, you know, at the end we send you a, you know, a big, beautiful trophy when you, when you complete your 50th.
And I, I do have that trophy. I can, uh, sure I will.
on one second, I'll run and get it. Okay. Okay, great.
I'll be right back. [00:38:00] I.
Oh, okay. So here,
Riley: Check
Kasey Kuker: here's this
trophy
Riley: that
logo is you have a shirt or something that had that on it? When we met in Ello. Okay. that's, that is super cool. So that's a big deal. So number 35.
So that just means there were 34 other females that finished that before you. Is that.
Kasey Kuker: Yes. Yep. Uh, I have to check the, the current statistics, but I think there are approximately 200, uh, people who have done it so far. And yeah, I was the 35th woman.
Riley: exciting. Yeah, that's, that's, uh, that's rare air right there, you know,
Kasey Kuker: Yes. Yes.
Riley: Well, thanks
Kasey Kuker: I also, uh,
oh, you're welcome. I, I also happened to grab this one to [00:39:00] you. So this is the, uh, the 50 states Club.
So if you, there is no, there are no time requirements for the 50 states Club. So if you are an eight hour marathoner, if you are a three hour marathoner, um, you, you are welcome in the club and they send you that beautiful trophy when you finish.
Riley: So who, who tracks that? I.
Kasey Kuker: So there, there is a board, um, there are I think four on the executive board of the 50 sub four club, and they are just wonderful people. Um, and, and they, it's volunteer. They, they track everything for everybody and it's, it's
wonderful.
Riley: is I didn't realize that there was anyone tracking those kind of things, and so
I
Kasey Kuker: Mm-hmm.
Riley: was
all just
personal you just kind of did it. And I, uh, yeah. That's super cool. Um,
Kasey Kuker: Thank you.[00:40:00]
Riley: so you do this thing in 50 states. You started kind really thinking about it at, you said number nine,
Kasey Kuker: Mm-hmm.
Riley: and then this guy encourages you to, you know, let's say let's do all 50.
Kasey Kuker: Yes.
Riley: So you're
to begin with, but then fitting all 50 of 'em in now. So you start heading towards this goal. When did that happen? When, when was that, decision to really push, push for that?
Kasey Kuker: That was, I'm gonna say, oh, it was like, I think it was around 2015 when I had had, uh, like nine or 10 done. Um, and oh, I mean also just looking at my, my Marathon times, um, it's like, okay. Most, most of them, I actually, I think all of them at that point had been under four hours. So I thought, well, why not give it a try?
And, you know, that was before I had ever run my [00:41:00] first marathon at Elevation,
which was,
Riley: this. 'cause you Elevation?
Kasey Kuker: we're, we're about a thousand feet here in Rochester, Minnesota, so. Um, some people, you know, out in Pocatello, I think it was like 44,000, 4,500,
Riley: The
Kasey Kuker: 45.
Riley: think
like that. So
Kasey Kuker: Okay.
Riley: Yeah,
Kasey Kuker: So I think some people can maybe handle that well, but my poor lungs, I do not, uh, do well at elevation. Uh,
so that was,
Riley: for
Kasey Kuker: whew. That was quite a wake up call.
Um, my first, my first one at Elevation was out in Jackson Hole, Wyoming?
Yes.
Riley: gosh,
Kasey Kuker: Almost seven.
Riley: know. That's
Kasey Kuker: Mm-hmm. That was quite a wake up call, you know, [00:42:00] just went out there. I had no idea. Um, but we were, I was walking up, I think it was two. Two flights of stairs, but like four or five steps in each level at a, a hotel at the base of a ski resort, I think is where we stayed.
And I was outta breath
10 steps.
Like, oh no, how am I gonna run 26.2 miles? I can't even walk 10 steps.
Riley: What? Talk about what that was like. 'cause now, now you're like all of a sudden nervous, 'cause the race stays tomorrow and you're going, I can't even walk up the stairs.
Kasey Kuker: Right, right. So, uh, you know, it, it's, you just, you just have to power through it. You just have to get talk, I guess. Talk yourself into a positive mindset because you're out there, it's happening tomorrow. [00:43:00] You've trained for this trust, your training. Do the best you can. Um, and, and maybe it's not the fastest goal, maybe it's not your a goal, maybe it's not your beagle, maybe it's just survive.
Um, not realizing that elevation could have such, uh, such a big impact on the running. So, um, I am, I am still so proud of, of that run. Uh, it's my slowest marathon, uh, I think I've ever run, but I made it in, in three hours and 59 minutes. So I was able to count that for Wyoming,
Riley: That's wild. 'cause yeah, it doesn't really matter where in Wyoming you are, you're gonna be high, right?
Kasey Kuker: Yes.
Riley: I, uh,
yeah, I think about like the, that Leadville event, the
ultra
Kasey Kuker: Oh,
Riley: they
do up
there,
Kasey Kuker: mm-hmm.
Riley: and some
I, those, that blows my mind. So it, it was funny, just a few weeks [00:44:00] before I met you, I was down in Park City, Utah for a jiujitsu event and
Kasey Kuker: Oh, cool.
Riley: with guys sucking wind because they're 7,000 feet also.
Kasey Kuker: Okay.
Riley: notice a
bunch that were there really struggling. They're just like, this is way worse than, you know. And I, I live at 2,700 feet. It's not like, like I'm. You know, I'm just kind of in the middle of there and
Kasey Kuker: Okay.
Riley: shocking to me.
So I can a thousand all the way up to 7,000, it's gonna be tough.
Kasey Kuker: It was something definitely
Riley: did you end up just averaging two a year? It sounds like you've done a lot more than that. Some years,
Kasey Kuker: I did. It's um. It became an addiction. I'm an, uh, a healthy addiction. Uh, so I started, you know, my first year I did one. My second year I did two. My third year I did three. And my fourth year I did four. And then my fifth year, I think I, I did like five or six. I did like five or six for most years. There were a couple [00:45:00] years I did eight.
Um, but now, and then I, I, I, I've averaged about five a year since I
started.
Riley: Kasey, that doing more a year? This was something I got thinking about as I was kind of planning for the interview. Did you find that doing more of them in a year kept you, you didn't have to ramp up as much, right? You kind of would. If you do eight of them a year, you're just in shape the whole time, right?
You,
Kasey Kuker: Yes,
Riley: that much
of a gap Was it easier to do it that way, or was it harder to do it that way?
Kasey Kuker: absolutely easier. If I can recommend to the next person who wants to, to go for the 50 states or the, the six world, um, major marathons, I think more is better. Um, keeping, um, you know, smart and safe spacing. I wouldn't recommend every weekend or every other weekend. Um, but, [00:46:00] but once a month or once every six or, or eight weeks or so, I, it's very advantageous because training for a marathon, I mean, minimum of 12 weeks, usually closer to 18, depending on what, what's your base level.
So if you're running a marathon every six to eight weeks, you are, you are just kind of, you're, you're not continuously ramping up for something. You, you know, you're running your main events and then, then you're resting, um, or re, you know, active recovery for a couple weeks. But then you really only need to do.
One or two more long runs, and then you're ready for that next event.
So you're just kind of always ready.
Riley: cool to know. 'cause that made me wonder if, if like, you'd be walking on the edge of overdoing it or if you, if it would make it easier. So, when you're. When you're doing these things, let's talk about logistics of it, you know, 'cause that's, that's something [00:47:00] that, uh, another guest that came on here, McKayla is 24 states or 25 now.
I think she just did another one,
Kasey Kuker: Great.
Riley: this
50 And
she's
Kasey Kuker: Okay.
Riley: at it
for a while.
But we, we bit about the logistics of it and what it looks like and what kind of a bite it takes outta your life to do all the traveling. And the, you know, you, you mentioned it hurts the wallet at times.
And so, um, what, what do you have to have in place because you, what do you do for a living?
Kasey Kuker: Um, I am an education specialist, uh, instructor of transfusion medicine at Mayo Clinic.
Riley: so you've got a full-time job and you're, you're doing these travels to, you know, you've gotta fit this in. What, what did that look like for you?
Kasey Kuker: It looks like a lot of spreadsheets, uh, a lot of calendar notices, um, and significantly planning ahead. So, um, being super type A absolutely [00:48:00] helps with, with this type of planning,
so,
Riley: huh?
Kasey Kuker: right. Yes, absolutely. So, um, uh, part of that is, I, I learned early on that when races are holding an anniversary, so like Pocatello this year, I think it was their
anniversary of the race.
Yes. So they offered this, this really awesome stainless steel wine Tumblr. So. I learned that when races are doing an anniversary year, like the, the medal is bigger or the swag is better, or maybe they have some other really fun special anniversary related thing. So then I started picking out states and races according to when they were gonna have anniversary years, um, just to kind of cash in on that.
So, um, I could plug, thank you. Thank you. Um, so I could plug those into my calendar. Um, and then really [00:49:00] it was working around, um, PTO from work, so, um, uh. Getting that, that PTO calculator spreadsheet out and then plugging in like, okay, if I do four marathons this year and I'm taking off a Friday and a Monday, and then like plugging that into the calculator to see will I have enough PTO to spend the holidays with my family.
Um, which is very important to me. So if it ended up being zero by the time I got to Thanksgiving, then okay, I'm not gonna be able to do this race this year. I'm gonna see if I can do it the next year. So, um, you know, it was balancing time off that I was able to take at work, um, and then picking those special anniversary years for races and then, um, you know, o other things planned that year or the next year.
So I was typically planning about three years out
for,
for the marathons.[00:50:00]
Yes, yes. But, but I had to just, you know, just with, with work and life and, uh, and everything else. So, um, it actually worked out really well, but I really have to be a planner.
Riley: No, it sounds like you would really have to be a planner.
Riley: What did, uh, your [00:51:00] training schedules through the week? I, I would, I'm really curious to see what that looked like, especially through this time. It doesn't sound like you've slowed down much since you, since you finished, but what does a week look like?
What is your training schedule? Daily runs, workouts. That's that sort of thing.
Kasey Kuker: Yeah. So that's a great question. Um, I, my, my training week typically starts on a Saturday, so I plan Saturday is my long run. Um, that, that's typically the day that I have, I have the most time to get that long run done and then sufficiently recover from it. So, um, long run Saturday, and then usually a, a short recovery run or cross training on, on Sunday.
So a lot of times that would be a walk. I love walking. Um, Monday is typically a day of rest. Um, if possible, maybe, maybe a yoga class, but Mondays would usually be completely [00:52:00] rest.
Tuesday track day,
Riley: all.
Kasey Kuker: I, no, no, not anymore. I, I used to, used to do, oh, I'll just do three or four miles, but no. Uh, no, now that I'm getting a little bit older, it's Monday's a rest day, uh, Tuesday track.
So track, workout, speed, speed, uh, intervals, uh, four hundreds, eight hundreds, mile repeats, things like that. Um, we, Wednesday would be an easy, uh, anywhere from six to eight miles, just whatever my body is, is feeling like no, no time limit and, uh, no pressure of, you know, speed. Um, and then Thursday, Thursday is either tempo or hills.
Hill repeats.
So, uh, Mar
Riley: out what tempo means for the
Kasey Kuker: sure. So, so tempo. So, um, for the Pocatello Marathon, I was actually shooting for a 7, 7 50 per mile pace. [00:53:00] So my tempo runs on Thursdays would be five or six miles at seven 50 Pace. Um. And if it was a hill repeat day, I, I had a, a three hills that I would, I would rotate. And, you know, hill and Minnesota, it really doesn't compare at all to Idaho.
Riley: Yeah, there's a difference between hills and mountains, so.
Kasey Kuker: Right, right. Huge difference. So just try to find the biggest hill and then, um, it kind of varied that workout as well. So, um, some Thursdays would be sprint up the hill, or some days it would just be, you know, just, just get up the hill however you can, and then casually run back down and then then repeat that however many times.
Um, Fridays typically also another rest day, because coming off that, that tempo or hill work day, usually my legs were pretty fried. And then Saturday is the long run day. So Friday would either be rest or maybe a, a short walk as well.[00:54:00]
Riley: I am impressed. You talk about doing track work and I, got this, uh, this guy I know, I met him on Instagram that's an ultra runner.
Kasey Kuker: Okay.
Riley: were
just talking and
sent me over a screenshot of his, know, his map, my run workout for
Kasey Kuker: Okay.
Riley: mile race. 52 miles or something on a track,
Kasey Kuker: Oh, on a track.
Riley: just this it looked like spaghetti bowl on, on, and now it's just, it made me sick.
'cause I'm, I'm an out and back guy. I
Kasey Kuker: Mm-hmm.
Riley: backs are
like that turnaround point is halfway and that's, in my mind, I'm done at that point. And so the, the run back's, just getting back, it, it doesn't
really, in
Kasey Kuker: Yes.
Riley: whatever reason,
doesn't tally more miles on. It's like, oh, I'm, I hit the point.
I'm just going back. So it's a
Kasey Kuker: halfway there.
Riley: running 50 miles on a track and round and round. It's like I would quit running if that was what [00:55:00] we had to do all the time.
Kasey Kuker: That's, ooh, that is a mental toughness that I don't, I don't know if I could do that. Um, running that many laps on the track, I, I got, I got sick of, you know, eight or six to eight, 800 repeats. I'm done.
Riley: Well, that being said, what's your favorite? Are you a, do you like loops? Do you like out and backs? Do you, like, Do, what's your preference?
Kasey Kuker: I think it's, it's a solid tie between out and back, especially when I absolutely love it in races when there, there's an out and back where you can see, um, other people, uh, participating and, and waving and saying, good job. I, that just get, gives me a huge boost just to see other runners and,
Riley: way and they're waving at you and saying, you're almost there. That kind of thing.
Yeah.
Kasey Kuker: Yes. That kind of thing. Um, so I, I love the out and backs. I also love to love the point to point [00:56:00] because, uh, you're seeing new scenery the entire way. Everything is, is an adventure. It's, it's, it's something new. Um, so I, I, it's, it's, it's a tough tie for me because I, I love the point to point where, you know, I'm just seeing new things the entire way versus the, the out and back.
If, if it's, uh, a course where you're, you're lined up and you get to High five or say Good job to other runners, it's there. They're going out and coming back, so,
Riley: Well, what, what do you think, um. Have you, you've kind of got this, so the 50 state goal is huge, right?
Kasey Kuker: mm-hmm.
Riley: mentioned,
a couple times on the podcast when I was doing the, the half marathons and triathlons, there was always that letdown after a race. And I remember train and train and train.
The training part's fun to me. I just, that constant having a [00:57:00] goal, checking the box off for the day. I did my workout, but then the event's done and I get this just like, what do I do tomorrow?
Kasey Kuker: Mm-hmm.
Riley: the like all the check marks are in all the boxes. And you know
what,
Kasey Kuker: Right.
Riley: did you do
to that, that factor into why you went with the 50 states in this just, you know, super long goal.
Kasey Kuker: Absolutely. It's, that is such a common feeling for I think any. Any endurance athlete or any, anybody who's training for a big event. And then, and then they do that 'cause, 'cause you're training for so long, for that one day, for that one event. And then you do it and then like you said, the next day, well what do I do?
Where do I go from here? So having, having another race on the calendar, it's just like, okay, well done with this one. So gonna, gonna take a couple rest days and I'm just gonna get back at it. I'm gonna train for the next one. 'cause [00:58:00] it's just, there's just such, such an incredible feeling crossing a finish line.
So, uh, and like you said, the, the training part's really fun too. Um, the, the whole journey and the feeling of accomplishment every day that you, you got that workout done and you got, you got to check that box off.
Riley: I love that. That sort of a thing. And it was, it was. I, I mentioned that I'm, I do the Brazilian juujitsu thing, right. And
Kasey Kuker: Yes.
Riley: the that, that was attractive to me, one of the factors to it was a black belt in Juujitsu is a 10 to 15 year journey.
Kasey Kuker: Wow.
Riley: something I can that let down for like a decade, know? And I, and then out here in about a month, what I'll, I'll be hitting that black belt point and I'm scared to death and I'm gonna let
Kasey Kuker: Oh.
Riley: again.
yeah, it's, uh, it's not like I finished anything. There's still plenty of, you know, [00:59:00] in fact, I just hitting, hitting black belt is the point when you realize how little you know. so it's, you know, it's gonna be a lifelong pursuit, but it scares me that I'm gonna have that. And I've talked to other guys who did have that kind of
a
Kasey Kuker: Mm-hmm.
Riley: at the end of I, I wanna bring that back to where you are though. So you get this 50 state trophy. Did you feel it then?
Kasey Kuker: I so ye yes and no. I, I did, I did feel it for a little bit, like, wow. It was, it was almost, um, it, I mean, it was surreal that it took me, it took me 12 years to do this, and, and it happened and it was in Alaska. Um, so got back to Minnesota and I, I did feel like, huh, okay. That, that's it, you know?
Riley: Well, 'cause the other people at the finish line in Alaska didn't know that that was [01:00:00] your 50th state. So they're just like doing the normal
Kasey Kuker: Right.
Riley: as
you go through
the line, job.
Kasey Kuker: Yeah. Oh yeah. Oh, but then, um, so it, there was, uh, I mean, COVID really, really messed up my plans. Um, 'cause I, like I mentioned, I, I had planned so far in advance and, uh, it was such an unknown time and everything got canceled or rescheduled. Um, so it took a lot of time to reschedule and get that all set.
Um, so I finished in, in 2023. So, um, you know, short, not, not so long after, uh, things started opening back up again. And when I got down to my last five at that point, I just kind of felt, I, I was very excited that I'm, you know, I'm this close five, five marathons away. But, um. [01:01:00] With the uncertainty that happened, you know, a few years earlier with things getting canceled and things getting moved around.
It was also just a lot of pressure and a feeling of, I now I just wanna get this done. It's, it's not, it's not so much more about like, oh, this, this amazing journey that I'm, that I'm about to accomplish. It's, I hope I can accomplish this. I, I, I hope I can get these done. Uh, so, um, just kind of feeling the pressure set in
over the last five marathons.
Riley: Right. Some of those, organization dissolved 'cause COVID killed them.
Right?
Kasey Kuker: right. Yes,
Riley: Not
Kasey Kuker: Yes,
No, right. No, no. Yeah. A lot of the organizations that, that ran the races or the people who are the race directors, yeah. They just said, I'm done. Or, or maybe the, the organization doesn't have money to fund. The race anymore [01:02:00] or something. So, so I, I did feel it a little bit, but, but I also had, I put so much time and training into 12 years of marathoning to finally feel this moment that I, I also felt a huge sense of, of relief and that okay, I'm just gonna, maybe I'm just gonna chill for the next year.
Um, before I really set my next huge running goal. Um, I, I'm also a race pacer, uh, for, for a lot of races. So I, I did say. Oh, yes. Uh, so I, I'm essentially, I'm assigned a finished time, so I, I pace a lot of half marathons and I'm, I usually get assigned the one, one hour and 50 minutes finish time. So I'm gonna carry a sign and it's gonna have the, the minute per mile, which is about an 8, 8 24, [01:03:00] uh, minute per mile pace.
And if you, if you run with me, I'm gonna keep a steady pace, you know, within five to 10 seconds of that pace for, for the entire race. So if your goal is one hour and 50 minutes to finish a half marathon, if you, if you run with me, you, you will get that time, you'll get that finished time
Riley: how do you gauge that? Are you gauging it by field? Do you have some device that does that, or how do you gauge that pace?
Kasey Kuker: usually. I usually pay a lot of attention to my, my smartwatch, which, which keeps me on track. So, um, I do it after a while, it becomes feel, I, I can feel, oh, okay. Maybe we're going a little bit faster right now. Oh, okay. Maybe we need to, we need to go a little bit, pull back a little bit. But if I'm paying attention to my watch, it, it has GPS and it has the, the minute per mile pace right on the [01:04:00] screen.
So usually every half mile or so, I'm peeking down at my watch just to make sure that we're, we're within five to 10 seconds of my assigned mile pace.
Riley: I didn't even know that, uh, I knew that certain runners had pacers that would come in and pace with them, but I didn't realize it was like you'd carry a sign. Yeah. I mean, you telling me that right now is the first time I've ever even heard of that, so,
Kasey Kuker: Oh, okay. Yes, yes. So like ultra marathoners, you, you can have your friends crew, you, uh, so you have, you have a group of people who will run with you for a certain amount of miles and maybe carry your nutrition, um, you know, help, help guide you to the next aid station or whatever. So, um. In the ultra marathon world, but in, in road racing, yeah, we, we carry a sign and at the start of the race, we're, we're gonna be lined up early with our signs held up pretty high.
So you can see, oh, maybe I wanna run a two hour half [01:05:00] marathon today, or maybe, maybe I wanna go for a one 30 half marathon. So you'll, you'll go into your running corral and you'll find your pacer with whatever fi goal, finish time you're thinking about for that day and, and just get lined up with that person.
Um, and then usually I, I like to chat with the people who are standing around me and, you know, just get to know them a little bit and, you know, what's your goal today? What, where are you from? Is this your first half? Uh, and I, I like to distract them, um, tell, tell ridiculous jokes or make up com, like weird facts that are, that are not factual about the course.
Riley: Um, tell me this, o of these races you've done, what's been the, the, the hardest one for you to complete? You mentioned, you mentioned Jackson Hole and finishing just barely under four hours, but
Kasey Kuker: Yes.
Riley: the
most difficult?
Kasey Kuker: Uh, that's it.
is, that, is
Riley: Mm-hmm.
Kasey Kuker: that, so [01:06:00] that one, and then a very, very close second would be, uh, Boston in 2018. So, so Jackson Hole was just simply the elevation. Um, it, it was also down pouring the entire race and it, it was, there was one point, um, so you start in the town square with the antler arch if you've ever been there.
Okay.
then,
Riley: there,
Kasey Kuker: oh my gosh.
Okay. Okay. So, so that's where we started.
Riley: from Jackson Hole, so,
Kasey Kuker: You're close. Yeah. Um, we, we, we ran, I don't know, somehow we got out to, um, the, the Grand Teton village, the, the ski area with the, the big gondola. That's, that was the finish line. But we are running on some trail headed toward that ski resort, and it was raining so hard and there was [01:07:00] so much water. It was, it was up to my calves
that the water that we are running through.
Yes, yes. Um, it also hailed at one point for like a solid 10 minutes, I was suddenly wondering like, what is, what's keeps hitting my face that, that really hurts? And then it's hail. Um, so, and then the elevation. So it, it, if you look at a, an elevation map of that course, you, you run up from, uh, from the town square up to the village, I think you gain about five or 600 feet in elevation, um, over that course.
So that, that's still is my most, most difficult run. And then, um, Boston 2018, I, I still, I can't believe that race went on. Uh, it was about 35, 36 degrees and it was raining [01:08:00] so hard. I couldn't even. I couldn't even see like it was like running through a waterfall. Um, so just really, really cold and torrential rain.
And, um, I was running with, uh, my best friend Megan. It was her first time ever running Boston. And we were, we were just doing everything possible to hold each other accountable. Like, you are not walking. Okay, you're now, you know, you're not walking and we're not stopping. We just, we just have to keep going.
We just have to keep moving 'cause it was so cold to, um, and we finally got back to our hotel room at, we crossed the finish line and um, Boyleston Street is the, the name of the street of where the finish line is located. And this is so funny, runners are kind of obsessed with their finish line photos, like.
They wanna look, you know, like Olympians when they're crossing the finish line, I don't care. Um, I'm just, I'm just happy to finish. But [01:09:00] all the raincoats and gloves like people were wearing, um, like rubber surgical gloves and like those yellow kitchen gloves just to try to stay dry. Everything, garbage bags, ponchos were, were lining the road 'cause people were stripping off all their waterproof stuff to try to get the best finish line photo.
So we are actually just, you know, we had to look down to try to avoid
all the discarded stuff from all the other runners.
Yes.
Riley: Oh my
Kasey Kuker: Yeah.
Riley: is so
funny. 'cause Yeah.
I think every sport has a little bit of diva, you know, where people wanna of pose a little bit more than they normally would, right.
Kasey Kuker: Right.
Riley: So
yeah, they're in a rain poncho, but then they're like, oh, finish line's coming up. Cameras are gonna be there so we're gonna strip it off.
Act like we've been doing this the whole time.
Kasey Kuker: Yes.
Riley: I ran faster that last, you know, a [01:10:00] hundred yards when I come around the corner where people could actually see me, I'd step up. Pace. Just act
like
Kasey Kuker: Oh yeah.
Riley: the whole
time. at the clock.
They know I haven't, but it's. Oh my goodness.
Kasey Kuker: Love it.
Riley: your, um, favorite, favorite shoe type? So I told you I was barefoot runner and, and if I'm, if I'm doing anything where I can't go barefoot, I do the minimalist shoe. But what, what do you like, you like the new platform ones that are three inches thick or do you, do you go more minimal?
Minimal,
Kasey Kuker: I do. I'm, I'm so impressed. First of all, that you are a minimalist or barefoot runner. Um, I, I tried it a couple times and I think my feet, I'm, I'm just so used to running in shoes and like super cushioned shoes that I was, I was hurting, uh, for a couple days,
but, um, I.
Riley: you first in weird ways too. 'cause
Kasey Kuker: Okay.
Riley: yeah,
your feet are not I always tell people, I said The first time you do, the first time you go [01:11:00] barefoot a quarter mile and then put your shoes back on and finish whatever else you're gonna do.
But don't go farther than that that for a couple
weeks
before you move those that took some time. It did. I
learned
Kasey Kuker: I'll remember that if I ever try it again. Take it easy.
Uh, I,
Riley: shocked about man, they've got so thick. It's wild. It's like people went minimalist for a while. It was kind of the trend and then that flopped way the other way. And I looked at some of the stuff at the, at the marathon that the guys at Poke Hotel running had there.
And I was shocked about how thick those things were.
Kasey Kuker: yes, the shoes.
Holy cow. You're absolutely right. The, the shoes have really evolved in height at cushion. Um. I, I am, I am on the bandwagon, um, of, of those shoes. I, I like my, um, my Nike vapor flies and Nike alpha flies are, uh, just [01:12:00] in my opinion, just top-notch for racing. Um, I, I look back at some of my old race photos and I'm, I'm wearing these heavy, heavy shoes and I, I just, I don't know how I did it.
Uh, like how did I, how did I run under four hours in those heavy shoes? Now that I have these super fast carbon plated, you know, like magical racing shoes. Um, my everyday runs, I, I switch it up. Um. I, I have the, the Brooks Hyperion, I wear the Nike Pegasus. Um, I like the Brooks Ghost, uh, what, like whatever for daily training runs and, and long runs.
But then for racing, I switch over to those carbon plated shoes and they're absolutely, there's a huge
difference. I, I just feel so fast. Mm-hmm.
[01:13:00]
Riley: do you, I'm trying to think how to phrase it. Do you feel like with these tall [01:14:00] shoes, do you ever, do you ever feel like ankle sprains are a thing? I, I, I would worry about that myself. 'cause I, I noticed I stopped having that problem at all when I took my shoes off. But I see those, I'm like, I, I always picture those model runways of the big platforms and their ankles are folding over and they're falling off that.
Kasey Kuker: Yes. Yes. So, um, the, the vapor flies, the Nike vapor flies. They are, they're very thin. Um, they're, I have significant concern when, when I know that there's, uh, like cobblestone or if, if, uh, part of the course is, I don't know, under construction or, or if there's any gravel or anything like that. 'cause those shoes are significantly, uh, not stable.
Um, the alpha flies are a lot better. They're a lot wider on the base of the shoe. Um, [01:15:00] but most of the other super shoes, they, I think they're okay in that area. They're mo, most of them are wider. Um. So a little bit more like st. Sturdier of a base, but the vapor flies there. There's no grip either. They're, they're very slippery.
Um, and and skinny on the bottom
Riley: them?
Kasey Kuker: right? Yeah. They're just foam.
Riley: Yeah. I think I've seen those. Um. I remember the, the name fly in there. Anyways, it
Kasey Kuker: Okay.
Riley: that
it was like they were just sliced through in it. So they
flexed
Kasey Kuker: Yes.
Riley: and yeah,
Kasey Kuker: yeah,
they're very, yeah, very, very flexible.
Riley: That's
Kasey Kuker: Yes.
Riley: this is called Kasey. This is called a Goer in your SALT podcast. And when you hear that term goer in your salt straight right here on my t-shirt,
Kasey Kuker: Yeah, I love it. I love the shirt.
Riley: when you hear that term?
Kasey Kuker: Go earn your salt. So that, what comes to mind is, um. [01:16:00] It is just hard, hard training, so you're training hard enough that you're sweating. So maybe a, a cardio event, um, in, in a good way. Uh, cardio training event. Um, so you're working hard, you're sweating and you're, you're earning, uh, you're earning that big delicious beverage, uh, during and after training to, to resupply all the salt that you've lost in your sweat.
Riley: That's so fun. I, uh, yeah, it just takes me back to some of the stuff. 'cause you, you know, I, I had an interview earlier with a guy who was saying the whole reason he works out, he's a, he's a CrossFit guy
Kasey Kuker: Okay?
Riley: works
out is so he can
Kasey Kuker: Yes,
Riley: it.
Kasey Kuker: yes,
Riley: it.
Kasey Kuker: yes,
Riley: of running,
Kasey Kuker: Um, I, I love singing. Uh, I, I sing in a band, so most, [01:17:00] most weekends I'm out performing with the group.
Riley: what kind of music you guys do?
Kasey Kuker: We, we do country covers.
Riley: Um, you should, is there a place we could find that and have a link to it?
Kasey Kuker: Yeah. Yes. Yeah, we're, so, the name is Branded Hot Country and it's just brand branded hot
country.com.
we're on Instagram. Yes,
and
bands in town.
Riley: That is awesome. cool.
Yeah,
Kasey Kuker: Thank you.
Riley: sure we put
that in the notes.
Kasey Kuker: Oh, thanks. I'd love that.
Riley: you that people don't know
Kasey Kuker: Quirky. Um.
Gosh, I have a lot of quirky things.
Um, let's see. Uh, probably the quirkiest thing is I, [01:18:00] I just love Halloween and, and if I ruled the world, um, Halloween would be more than one day. It would at least be the whole, at least the month of October. Um, but I have Halloween decorations year round, like not my whole house there. I just have a few things up for Halloween year round.
That's, that's probably the quirkiest thing.
Riley: Christmas music here in about a month. We're that way about Christmas? It would
Kasey Kuker: Oh, that's great. Yes.
You'll love it.
Riley: for it.
but yeah, we'll going here probably first part of October.
Kasey Kuker: Yes.
Riley: my
goodness.
Kasey Kuker: Yes.
Riley: usually
lasts too, so, so
Kasey Kuker: Oh, that's, that's perfectly fine. I mean, I think until here, until the snow melts, which could be June, um, some people could keep their Christmas lights up, so
totally fine.
Riley: if gotta be Christmas lights. That's a,
Kasey Kuker: Right?
Riley: That's a,
Kasey Kuker: They, they go together.
They
Riley: so
[01:19:00] listen, are, are you a pizza eater?
Kasey Kuker: love pizza.
Riley: Is it ever okay to put the sauce on top of the cheese and the other toppings?
Kasey Kuker: Oh, I mean, I'm gonna say yes. I've never tried it. I don't think I've ever seen it. Is this, is this an Idaho thing?
Okay.
Riley: no. I
would move. It's um, I see it with like deep dish pizzas, maybe the Chicago style. I thought, you know, you're
much
Kasey Kuker: Oh, mm-hmm.
Riley: than I am. Maybe but I just don't think it's okay. I think certain standards we should uphold and that's not one of them.
Kasey Kuker: So as long as there's, you know, the, the cheese to everything else ratio is, you know, is at least double. I don't care where the sauce is,
it has to be,
has to be mostly cheese.[01:20:00]
Riley: that's the, Hmm, you got a point there.
Kasey Kuker: Cheese, okay.
Riley: You mind if the cheese to ratio, so you're saying double the cheese to sauce?
That's, yeah, there's
something there Okay. I'm not gonna pretend to be totally rigid on that then. We'll.
Kasey Kuker: Okay.
I'm just imagining this like super deep dish pizza where it's, you know, mostly, mostly cheese and the crust is like, what A solid, probably four inches tall
and then, you know, there's some sauce on it. Mm-hmm.
Riley: I suppose ratios matter, don't they? We should
get a
Kasey Kuker: They do?
Riley: that says
ratios Have
a
Kasey Kuker: Yes.
Riley: of
cheese
and
Kasey Kuker: Yes.
Riley: life.
Kasey Kuker: Oh, wow. That's, that's a great question. Uh hmm.[01:21:00]
Uh, let, oh, I've had, I've had a couple scary moments. Um, you know, this is, it's running related. Surprise, surprise. Um, my first Boston was in 2013 when it, when it was bombed. So, uh, we, we were. We were right in the thick of things, uh, when the bombs went off. Like we weren't right there at the finish line. Um, but we were a couple blocks away, so that was, that was pretty scary.
Um, mostly because we, we were kind of under lockdown and, and, um, there was a lot of, uh, military personnel with like big machine guns and, and stuff, um, guarding the doors of the hotel. Uh, and, and then that the person or people we didn't know at the time who did it were still at large,[01:22:00]
Riley: know
Kasey Kuker: so
Riley: coming, Right.
Kasey Kuker: Right.
Riley: So, yeah, just a couple blocks away. So you would've heard it and everything. I mean, you
Kasey Kuker: We, we thought it was fireworks. 'cause I mean, we, it's like, it's the Boston Marathon. It's, it's kind of come to find out it's kind of a big deal. And, uh, we just thought, oh, it's, you know, it's fireworks.
Riley: yeah. I see those, um, crowds at those things. I mean, it's heartbreaking to see people wanting to do that kind of crap, but
Kasey Kuker: It is.
Riley: just the the amount of bodies stuck in one place, you know, it's blocks and blocks and blocks. And the, um, some friends of ours did, I, I kind of think it was Chicago, it's been a long time ago, but they, they did that event and they said, you know, timer goes off the, the start start pistol or whatever, however they start it. Um, and it was, it was like an hour before they got across the start line,
Kasey Kuker: Mm-hmm.
Riley: it, and
Kasey Kuker: So
many runners.[01:23:00]
Riley: that do those things. And so to have that going on lockdowns, that sort of thing, yeah, that would be absolutely terrifying.
Kasey Kuker: It was, it was just, yes. There were just so many, so many unknown, uh, pieces surrounding that, that event. So yeah, it was pretty scary.
Riley: Um, tell me this, what's a, what's a bucket list? I mean, what's next for you?
Kasey Kuker: I have, I have a big goal that I'm almost scared to announce, uh, but I'm hoping to run 10 Bostons in a row. And I, according to the, the, the Boston Athletic Association, you, you officially become a legacy runner. And then when you're trying to qualify for the race, um, you, you just have to qualify for your age and gender.
You don't have to try to run it 10 minutes faster or 20 minutes [01:24:00] faster. Um, so that's a big goal. And what makes me nervous to say that is that we're, we're currently awaiting the, the cutoff time for the 2026 Boston Marathon. So I already have six in a row,
so.
Riley: we
talked about I kind of had forgotten that we didn't bring it back around to actually on air your Pocatello marathon that you did was a qualifier for Boston,
Kasey Kuker: Yes,
Riley: but Boston has
announced the time. So in previous years, your finished time would qualify. You qualify, but you're still in that nerve wracking weight right,
of
Kasey Kuker: yes.
Riley: hear what
the the actual cutoff is.
Kasey Kuker: Yes. And it's, it's gonna be any day now. I, I think, I mean, within the next week, they're going to announce, what is it?
Riley: So you're keeping an eye out close.
Kasey Kuker: I am, [01:25:00]
Riley: Yeah. You're
So this will mark seven if you get in, that. Oh wow, that's
Kasey Kuker: Yeah, so I'm just, I'm so close. I'm, you know, I'm over, I'm over the hump of halfway and it's, it's just such a, a, a big thing that would be really cool, um, to accomplish. Uh, and then also to run, uh, run a marathon on every continent.
Riley: cool.
Kasey Kuker: Mm-hmm.
Riley: Yeah. that explains why you had such a small letdown because you've gone now, boom. Just set other bigger goals. Right. Nice. So what happens if, for some reason, the cutoff time, you didn't make it with Pocatello? Are there other events you can do that would to still qualify?
Kasey Kuker: Unfortunately, no. Uh, they have a very, it's the last hurrah. They have a very, uh, specific cutoff. Um. For, for [01:26:00] qualifying. Um, so I, my other option would be I could find a, a charity, one of the charities that supports the Boston Marathon and apply to that. Um, they have a certain amount of bibs that they're given.
And I think that would be my next step. If I didn't qualify, I try to run for charity.
Riley: I mean, it sounded to me talking to you that fairly sure you're gonna qualify, but you just
Kasey Kuker: Oh, I hope so. I just don't know. I feel like I'm on the line. I, I didn't, uh, I didn't run any of my, my races in the qualifying window. Super fast. Uh, I was, I was mostly injured for, for the entirety of 2024. So really, really just coming back from a year of, of injury and, uh, trying to run as fast and as hard as I can.
But I just, I, I didn't get the times this year that I did, [01:27:00] um, prior to 2024. So I do feel very nervous and borderline for this, this go around.
Riley: Yeah, that's, uh, now I'm even more nervous. Do you, will, will you please let me know? 'cause I wanna, when your episode of this podcast probably is gonna come out in kind of early December
Kasey Kuker: Okay.
Riley: looks like
at this point. when does the actual race, the ones Boston take place?
Kasey Kuker: It'll be April, uh, the third Monday in April.
So I think this at the 20th.
Riley: me know how that qualification goes. 'cause I would
love
Kasey Kuker: I will.
Riley: people know, by the end of this episode, but I can, I can add a little blurb in there to let 'em know if you ended up qualifying
Kasey Kuker: Okay. I will,
Riley: end of the
Kasey Kuker: yes.
Riley: Kasey, what's a book that you would recommend everyone read?
Kasey Kuker: Oh, that's, that's a great question. Um, [01:28:00] I, I am, I am in the middle of a book called Make It Stick, and maybe, maybe this is more geared toward, uh, my, my educator, uh, friends. But it's so far, it's, it's fascinating and it's, it gives, um, kind of reimagine studying and, um, remembering, um, key important facts that you.
You probably need for, for your job or, or for like a board certification exam or something. Um, so I'm, I'm only about halfway through the book right now, but I am, I, I'm kind of fascinated by it and it's, it's really kind of changed my thinking of even how I'm teaching my students. Um, so I love that book.
Otherwise, I'm looking at my, my collection over here. Um, [01:29:00] oh, a good book for everybody. Um, I'm such a nerd. I'm, I'm into like, um, the Hunger Games and
things like that.
Oh, they're great. They're great.
Uh
Riley: like Excel workbooks or something.
I
Kasey Kuker: oh,
Riley: the way,
you've been
talking about I
Kasey Kuker: no, that, that's, uh. That's about as nerdy as I get there. Uh,
Riley: That's so awesome.
Kasey Kuker: oh,
Riley: well do you, do you document your, your runs on, on the social media anywhere?
Kasey Kuker: Yes. I, I'm on Strava.
Yes.
I don't know if you call me a hero, but do like Strava. So Garmin, I just, [01:30:00] uh, my, my Garmin watch, it just stinks with Strava, so.
Riley: Strava is cool 'cause they, they add that social, um, component into it, right?
Kasey Kuker: Mm-hmm.
Riley: people
and then everybody and then you guys can compete on little medals of King of the Hill and all the
different,
you know,
Kasey Kuker: Yeah. A little,
Riley: and
Kasey Kuker: yeah. Giving each other kudos and, you know, props on your. You run or your, whatever you, your bike ride or something. So,
Riley: I love it 'cause we, we've got a cyclist here, uh, Kristen, Kristen Armstrong, who's, she was in the Olympics and stuff, you know, she's a,
just
Kasey Kuker: yeah.
Riley: killer on a
bicycle lives right here, local, and she's on Strava here. And so it's fun to see just how pathetic I look to an Olympic level athlete.
You know, it's just, uh, you know, we'll, we'll peddle up the same section a hill. And I'm like, she literally did that in half the time that I
Kasey Kuker: Isn't that wild? I mean, I, I was talking, we talk frequently in our, our [01:31:00] running community about, you know, just, just having a, you know, it could be the, the most talented person in your cycling group or running group, somebody who, you know, usually gets first place in their age group or something and send them to the Olympics with these, these unicorns, um, who are just.
Right. Like just genetically not even close to the rest of us. And you know, you, you are inspired by this person who consistently gets first in their age group, but you know, they're, they're running against these unicorns and they don't even have a chance. And you know, it just puts it into perspective.
Riley: So marathon is kinda a weird thing because you get, you're fast, but the the really fast people, the people setting the world record times, when you compare to that, it's, it's mind boggling, isn't it? It's like they are,
Kasey Kuker: Oh
Riley: double,
Kasey Kuker: yeah. They're like a solid hour and a half faster [01:32:00] than me.
Riley: and your time's already fast. That just, it blows my mind. I, I
Kasey Kuker: Thanks.
Riley: the one of those in person and they go by and I'm realizing they're gonna do an entire marathon at that pace, and I can't even run that fast. Flat out, I can't do a hundred
Kasey Kuker: Just for one mile. Yeah.
It's crazy how fast they're,
yeah. '
Riley: 'cause they're miles an hour, if I remember right. Somewhere around there.
Kasey Kuker: It's blazing fast.
Riley: miles and blows my mind. I just, yeah. And every endeavor I've ever seen with world class athletes of any kind, has shocked me at the, just how fast they really are.
Kasey Kuker: Mm-hmm.
Riley: You know?
It's,
Kasey Kuker: And you're so strong and Yeah, like the you
Riley: half that I've been running. 'cause they're, they're already done by the time I start, but, oh man.
Kasey Kuker: That's so funny. Oh.[01:33:00]
Riley: Well, this has been, just a pleasure having you on. I, such a fun conversation. Just it's, uh, what you've achieved is impressive. Where you're going from here. It's impressive. I keep up the good work.
Kasey Kuker: Oh, thank you so much. I really, I appreciate that and thank you for having me,
Riley: been a joy, Kasey. It's been super cool.
Kasey Kuker: The sa, I feel the same. This is great opportunity.
Riley: and listen, you go on your salt. Okay.
Kasey Kuker: Yeah, thanks Ri. You too. Go get that black belt.
Riley: Boom Hopefully,
Yes.
[01:34:00]