Gustavo: [00:00:00] like just trying to my best to, to be understanding of, of their situation. But, , even though their situation had severe consequences in my life, , not just financial, , but mental one as well.
Riley: Today I have my friend Gustavo Bessa outta Portland, Oregon, the Portland area. He is, he's a businessman, but he's also a high level Jiu Jitsu athlete. And so I wanted to, uh, invite him on the show today.
He's the owner of, uh, three Jiu Jitsu schools. Um, I'm gonna actually have you introduce [00:01:00] those, so I get the names right of the, of your schools, if you would. But I, I wanna welcome you to the show, Gustavo.
gustavo: Yeah, thanks for having me and Ri it's a pleasure to be on. Uh, so yeah, I do own three Brazilian Jiujitsu schools in the Portland area. We have our Happy Valley location is our oldest one, our Oregon city that's about about to be four years old. And then our new one, newest one that we were just reopening up actually as of today, we're back in the open after five month break there, uh, that we had to close down, as we will talk about later on today.
But Sellwood location, which is in Southeast Portland in the Brooklyn neighborhood.
Riley: Oh, awesome, man. I'm, I'm always impressed with that when someone can juggle, man, the, the fact that you can juggle three of 'em is, is crazy. You know, I, I, uh, I don't own a school, I just train at one, but I teach there and I, I can see all the moving parts and I'm like, man, I don't know if I'd wanna own one, let alone three.
So it's impressive.
gustavo: Yeah, I sometimes reconsider my choices, but [00:02:00] at the end of the day, you know, it gets to a certain point that if you want to continue growing and, uh, continue to putting, giving the opportunity to other people who also want to make a living off jujitsu to be able to coach, they, you only need so many coaches in one gym.
So once people get to a certain rank, I think that's an opportunity for them to practice their own coaching, regardless if they wanna move on down the road or not and whatnot. I, it works, works for everybody, so it's kind of what we had to do.
not easy.
Riley: I bet it's not easy.
man. I would love to hear more about the, um, that transition once you said when somebody gets to a certain rink, they begin to teach for themselves and, um, or at least hone that craft. Right? I want to talk about that in this episode, but first I want you to tell a bit about your story.
You know, where'd you grow up? What, what did, what was life like as a kid and what brought you into Jiu Jitsu and then ultimately into to business ownership.
gustavo: So I grew up in Brazil. I was born in Brazil in 1988. [00:03:00] I lived up there until I was about 12 years old. I was always interested in martial arts, but unfortunately my parents, they just didn't have the time, didn't have the money for me to, to, to practice sports there. At the time it was like karate and judo and kung fu and Kada, which I would end up training with my cousins and my friends, but never officially in a school like that.
Uh, when I was 12 years old, I ended up moving here to the United States and, uh, played a little bit of soccer. But as soon as I got a chance in high school that we lived close enough that I could walk myself to, to the gym and, uh, not depend on my parents 'cause they're growing up immigrant in the United States.
My parents always worked. Two, two jobs full-time and they, they just didn't have the opportunity to be able to drive me back and forth. So it wasn't until my sophomore year that I was able to get into wrestling program and uh, finally got into a little bit of martial arts then. And ever since then, I just fell in love with it.
I, funny story, I went in thinking it was like WE type wrestling, 'cause that's what I [00:04:00] watched on tv and I was like, yeah, I wanna do that. You know, I still, as a kid, I thought that was real stuff and, uh, come to find out it wasn't, but it was still, still fun and, and challenging, you know, and honestly made me successful.
And today, you know, 'cause we say after, after the wrestling season, like. Everything is easy, you know, 'cause you have life and everything going on during resting season and training and competing. It's super hard. And then after you're done, it's like, all right, well now it's just regular life without all the other stresses.
So it's pretty easy. And then fast forward a little bit, I, I, I wrestle and then after high school I lifted weights for a couple years and I just kind of got bored, you know? I was like, I'm going to college, you know, but I feel like I'm missing something. And one of my friends, really good friends, Johnny Bartlett, uh, he was randomly signed up to do an MMA fight and he asked me to come watch at the FCFF, which is a Portland's full fighting, uh, full contact fighting federation, the biggest one here in Oregon.
And I went and watched and I was [00:05:00] like, huh, this looks pretty fun. I think I can beat some of these guys. And I started training and. Six months later, I was like, I, I'm doing pretty well. I'm beating up my teammates and they, these guys are bigger, stronger, been training longer than me. Maybe I got a talent for this.
So I asked my coach to sign me up for a fight, which ended up not happening Dan, but a year later I was able to fight, and then I went, uh, seven, eight years undefeated. I was like the number one ranked immature in the air for MMA and, uh, ended up going pro. Ended up making 11 fights before I lost my first fight.
And then ended up a few years later, I retired from MMA, decided to focus on, I, I was then part owner of the gym, which used to be 5 0 3 West Coast Jiujitsu. I took over part ownership and switched the name over a little bit, and then continued trying to juggle, fighting MMA full-time as a professional and running the gym.
And it, it got to a point where it was, it was too much, and I decided. My [00:06:00] brain hadn't had enough damage. I didn't wanna get hit in the head anymore. I turned 30 years old and I was like, have this great opportunity on my hands. I do, people seem to think I'm a good coach. So I was decided to focus on coaching and, and building the, the gym, which, uh, was when BTT basically was born.
Uh, my coach, my jujitsu coach, Diego Gaal, he's from Texas. He's the one of the head guys out in Texas. He's got a few gyms out there as well. And, uh, I talked with him and decided to affiliate with BTT and that's when I, I took over as the sole owner, so sole owner of the gym, uh, and started running things, switched up the, the gym from a full on MMA gym to more of a family, family, family friendly Brazilian Jiu Jitsu gym.
And, uh, here we are three gyms later and doing it full time, still trying to compete in the old guy Master's division and managing all three things you.
Riley: But you, [00:07:00] you're still competing. Um, I've seen video clips of you compete. I haven't seen full matches. Um, but your jiu-jitsu's impressive man, and I, I'm curious from, you're running three schools, you're competing at a high level. What does a day look like for you? What, how do you juggle all that stuff?
gustavo: So currently I teach about four to five classes a day, depending on the day. And I tend to be able to train in at least a couple of 'em. And some days, you know, especially now, I'm 36 years old now, so I will. Some days I'll do daily doubles. Some days I don't train at all. Some days I only do one. And, uh, yeah, I just make the best of it, you know?
I figured Haer Gracie became a world champion training with a bunch of white belts. I, I don't, I'm not gonna be Haer Gracie, obviously, but I can keep up my, my training a little bit with that. That's kind of doing the best I can. Is, is, am I training the same as I did when I [00:08:00] was 20 years old, training three times a day, lifting, running at night?
No, you know, I'm nowhere near where I used to be, but, um, I've been able to put enough in the bank that at least the technique is there. My physical athleticness not quite what it used to be, but it's still still decent.
Riley: You, you brought up something there that, um. People who aren't combat sport, uh, you know, in that world don't often understand. And there there is, you said Hodra Gracie became moral champion grappling with a bunch of white belts. You know, uh, Mikey, Mr. Mechi is kind of that way too, where a lot of his training partners are not as nearly as high level as him. And that was something that when I came into Jiu Jitsu, I'm, I'm thinking, I had a friend who was competing. He was, he was very good, but he only had a blue belt or a couple blue belts and a couple white belts to train with. But yet he would still go to these competitions and do well, uh, what is it about that?
How did you, [00:09:00] how did you make that work for you? Because it's not like they're competing, they're competitive roles. It's, you're, you're getting these, these grappling matches with these guys that are easy for you. But how do you up the game to make that challenging so you can learn?
gustavo: So one of the things that I tell my students is like, everybody's got something to offer, right? So maybe this guy, he's not a full complete fighter yet may, but maybe there's one position that he's really good in. And then you have this other guy who's not great in that position, but he's great in that position.
So as, as a higher belt, right? I have to put myself in these positions where these guys will actually challenge me. Maybe he's got a great half guard or something like that, and I'm like, I'm like, I'm gonna let him get to his position and then I'm gonna work out of it and I'm gonna do my best from there.
And. Yeah. You know, and, uh, I've heard a lot of high level guys say as well, like, you don't need to have the toughest roles in the room every time. It's really nice for black belts to have a bunch of tough blue belts that you can kind of continue working and testing [00:10:00] out your skills and like, not feel like you're fighting for your life every round and whatnot.
And, and be able to make the mistakes and like really test things out, you know, before you go and test them out in competition. So, if I've seen other guys do it higher level, guys that have won way more than me, you know, so I, I take their word for it. And so far it's, it's been successful. I've been, I mean, the better guy in the room for, I don't know, a decade now that I've been one of the black belts in the gym as of seven years now.
And even when I was a purple belt brown belt, I was already one of the, the better guys that. Basically living full time, you know not, but I believe everybody's got something to offer. You know, I got Big Mike, he's the king of the deep half. You know, I got big Suk who can put crazy pressure on top. I got this other guy who's made outta rubber bands, and he can invert and play upside down.
I got this brown belt grill who's super flexible and play all kinds of lasso spider guard. So I let her get into her game so I can make them the best out of it. And then all of a sudden I have all these different looks. You know, [00:11:00] they're giving me their best and I'm giving them maybe not my best position, right?
But still gonna help me get better.
Riley: So that's, that's beautiful. 'cause you're, you're talking now about, and again, people not in the sport, maybe don't understand, but could have a blue belt who has a black belt position, right?
gustavo: Correct.
Riley: belt level.
you piece all these people together and you get a complete other fighter that you get a work out of all these high level, uh, positions.
gustavo: Correct. Yeah. I just got this new kid, he's like in his twenties, he was like a green belt in judo, trained as a kid, high level wrestler, but doesn't know any Jiu Jitsu. But on my feet, man, he's giving me trouble. He's throwing me on my head, you know, and I could be like the ego black belt that like refuses to train with him or just sits down and only does Jiu Jitsu.
But I'm like going in there and I'm getting thrown on my head by this brand new white belt kid. You know? Which little do people know, he's a freaking killer standing up, you know? But once it hits the ground, he's [00:12:00] brand new, you know? So I get a lot more out of losing to him on my feet than I do from beating him up on my back.
And I take advantage of that. You know, I, I look for people's strengths and then I use those strengths to help me get better at, at, at the parts where they're better than me or as good as me, or whatever they're best in.
Riley: Yeah. Now, positionally, do you take, do you, do you, uh, get yourselves into, into, you know, deep into a submission and try to escape from that? Do you take that approach also? I.
gustavo: I do it a little bit, I don't do it as much anymore 'cause I just feel like it beats my body down. You know, I'm more, I much very much focused my, my training on positional opposed to submission defense. I, I've always believed that once you're, you, you're a little too late. Once you're in the submission locked in yet, you know, I understand Gary's TA's approach.
You're getting tapped out five, 15 times in five rounds and stuff like that. And I did that a lot more when I was younger. But now I feel like, man, that's, that's a beating on my body. [00:13:00] Getting those arm bars so close and escaping and finding out of it, but still do it to some, just not as much as I used to in the past.
Just adapting as I, as I age,
preserving my body. 'cause I wanna do this till I'm 80.
Riley: that's a good life lesson. Not just for Jiu Jitsu, but for just about anything, man. Sometimes we, as we age, we have to take different approach to things and that constant rough beat down go, go, go has to, has to kind of slow down a bit, you know? And we can pace ourselves and then we can do stuff longer.
gustavo: Right. Yeah. That's kind of where I'm starting to make that transition now. You know, going from training super hard to managing my training and my coaching, make sure I don't break down and learn to, like some days I go hard the next day I might not go at all, and then I'm gonna go light, and then I'm gonna go hard again and gauge.
It's not everyday hard or specific stuff. I just gotta listen to my body a little bit better. Now this,
Riley: sometimes [00:14:00] that's hard. It's a hard pill to swallow, isn't it? When you kind of realize my crap, things are slowing down and
gustavo: hmm.
Riley: be 48 this,
I'll be 49 this year. Excuse me. You know, I'm still on the mats, but man, there are days when I'm like, I went too much last night. Today's gonna be slow.
gustavo: I understand. Yeah. That's my goal to keep going, you know, hope to make it to, to 49, still on the mats and having fun.
Riley: Yeah, man. Well, it's, it is fun.
every time, but it's, it's definitely a, a pace thing now. what is competitions, um, and just for life in general? Um. You, you can't really tell on camera, but you're a physically fit dude. Uh, what does, what does diet and workout routine look like? That's, imagine not all of your workout is on the, just, just grappling.
gustavo: Currently I do about two days a week of, of, of weight training. You know, I'd like to add more, but with how much I'm coaching, it's sometimes hard to get those extra two [00:15:00] days there. But I do one day of upper body and one day of lower body, and that seems to be enough. I get between, uh, I want to say six to seven training sessions of jujitsu a week.
Um, I don't spend as much time drilling as I used to. I end up just kind of like jumping in for the positional and the live rows, so I'm not getting. Full hour of training every time I train. It's more like 30 minutes of go time kind of thing. Um, diet wise, you know, I, I've been way more strict in the past.
I felt like, uh, when I was fighting MMAI was dieting for 10 years long, you know, like just constantly like, keeping track of calories, keeping track of my meals and eating at exact times. Uh, as I retired, I decided that I don't wanna do that anymore. It's become, like, it makes the sport not fun for me to have to like be at a hundred percent peaking all the, all year long, all, all the time.
So I keep my dieting to where I'm eating. I [00:16:00] try to focus on eating real foods. Uh, I'm eating two to three meals a day. Some days I fast, some days I don't. But just focusing on eating real foods, like real nutrient dense foods. No processed foods, uh, gaining my protein intake every time, every meal that I eat, I make sure I have protein drinking water.
Pretty much only water is what I drink and I'll drink tea in the morning. That's about it. But nothing crazy. I'm not doing what I used to do. Be full on keto for months at a time, not eating any carbs for months at a time. So now it's just pretty balanced diet, protein, carbs, and healthy fats every meal.
Riley: uh, what weight class do you fight in when you grapple?
gustavo: So currently middle weight, which is 180 1 and a half with the GH and 1 75 0.5 no gh.
Riley: And they take it down to a half a pound, huh?
gustavo: Yeah. Yeah,
Riley: Um,
gustavo: that makes a difference sometimes,[00:17:00]
Riley: I think, I think what you're talking about here, people, people don't understand the commitment it takes to go into a competition, especially if you're having to cut a bunch of weight. You know, that's a, that's a freaking that's difficult. You know, and people,
gustavo: right?
Riley: at these,
MMA fighters, and they're, they're always, you know, critical of, they didn't perform today.
Well, dude, do you know what that guy's been through for the last eight weeks on the camp? Or 10 weeks? brutal.
gustavo: Yeah. You know, I used to cut like 60 pounds of 16 pounds of water weight day before my MMA fights when I used to fight at 140 pounds, 16 pounds, and then put 18 pounds back within the next three hours. So it's, it's very hard, you know, and, and to be able to do that, there was a whole process of the month long and then the week of was very specific, how much water you're drinking, water loading when you cut off the salt so that your body just releases all that water at once.
And I know for a fact that most people [00:18:00] don't understand the weight cutting. There's, there's a lot of guys that don't know what they're doing. They just. Not eating the right things and the performance will show, you know, but it's, it's a very methodical, scientific way to do it properly. And, and even me, you know, I had my last fight against, it was like my last fight was my 15th fight.
Uh, I didn't have a good weight cut, you know, I don't know if it was the weight cut or the recovery that didn't go well, but not to make an excuse, but as soon as I warmed up, I had a heart rate monitor and my heart rate was just through the roof, you know? And I was like, uhoh, something is off, you know?
And that's the last thing you wanna do right before your fight is feel it like, oh no, my weight cut went bad. I'm not feeling great. I'm gonna gas out. And sure enough, second round in I was already dying and ended up getting TKO for first time in my career. Had a lost my only fight that was. I didn't finish the full fight, but it's a very important thing.
People underestimate the power of, of food and, and the recovery and the proper weight to weight cut. Uh, [00:19:00] fortunately for jiujitsu, for the most part, we don't cut very much weight. Sometimes if you're real close, there's a couple pounds that you gotta, you know, uh, you gotta lose. And I tell my students, like, if you have to lose more than five pounds, put on some weight and be at the top of your division instead.
Like five pounds is about the limit, in my opinion, for a jiu-jitsu competition that you weigh in and then you gotta go and compete. You know, anything more than that, it's detrimental to your performance.
Riley: man, I, I'll tell you quick, funny story. When I was a kid, I started wrestling when I was in the second grade, I was eight years old I wrestled until I was So I had five years there of, uh, in the freestyle wrestling scene. And the last year I wrestled, supposed to be in the 85 pound class, right? I got the bright idea that I didn't want to fight those big guys, those big 85 pounders. I wanted to get back down to the 72 pound class, which [00:20:00] was, you know, that was the next one down at that time. And so I stuck a garbage bag on and a sweatshirt and went for a jog around the block. And I just ran until I was down to where I could weigh in under 72. And, you know, that's a humongous percentage of body weight
gustavo: Yeah, especially at that weight class.
Riley: Yeah. I got so sick, man. I, I had no idea what I was doing. I just sawed my older brother doing it and I, I thought, I'm gonna try this. And for enough, I made weight, but I went in there and got my butt kicked because I just had nothing left.
It, it took so much outta me. That was the last time I ever, ever tried to cut any weight, man. It was, it was terrible.
gustavo: And I'm sure any wrestler from your generation, my generation below, went through the same exact thing. Uh, I think it's unfortunate, you know, in wrestling they do a good job. I don't know how much has changed since I've been in high school, which quite a bit ago, almost 20 years now. But they don't do a good job educating you in nutrition.
They don't do it a good job educating in a proper [00:21:00] weight cut. So you're kind of just on your own. Unless you had a, a family that done this before, like rest their family, which I didn't have. My parents never played sports like the first one in the family ever to play sports and, uh. They, they just don't educate you, you know, so you're kind of out there like, oh, I saw that guy put some elbowing on his body.
Put, threw, threw two trash cans or trash bags on sweatsuit and sweatshirts and go for a run like the Michelin man looking all chubby with the five sweatshirts on. And all of a sudden, you know, I finished a match and I could go downstairs and I fall over cramping everywhere and figure out like I was extremely dehydrated and didn't do my weight up properly.
And sure enough, you know, I won the match, but I almost died after. So I'm not sure that was worth it.
[00:22:00]
Riley: . Well, let's switch gears a little bit. I, I want to talk to you about how you've now navigated the business part of your world. 'cause you're, you're successful in competition, you're doing well there, but now the sudden you take on three jujitsu schools and they're, they're fairly close together, if I'm not mistaken.
gustavo: About between [00:23:00] like one is 17 minutes from the other and then the other one's like 25 minutes from the other. So fairly close. Yeah. Which I did that on purpose 'cause I'd like to be able to go and visit all of 'em and not have to travel two hours away, stuff like that so I can close enough that I can keep an eye, but far away enough where it's, it's a completely different clientele.
all in different cities.
Riley: you started out with, was it called 5 0 3 Jujitsu
gustavo: 5 0 3 west close to jitsu. It's where I was an MMA fighter there. I was just one of the students and eventually I became one of the assistant coaches and, uh. Down the road when my, my, my coach, which is he's now my Jiujitsu student, one of my best friends, Jason Pittman, he, he got another job and he just kind of burnt out on the gym life and being a gym owner.
And he offered me and two other guys a partnership. And we were a partnership for a little bit. All those other guys had real jobs. And I was the only one just living off the gym and trying to make the gym [00:24:00] work. Got to a point, I was like, Hey guys, I love you guys, but either you guys gotta go or I gotta go and do my own thing.
And they were like, no, bro, you, you're doing everything. We, we got enough money. Just pay us back for what we started. And, uh, you take over and I worked hard, got the gym running again. Went from like 40 members back up to a little while back. We had close to 300 members, but I was able to pay them back and, uh.
I actually stayed partners with Pittman for a little bit and eventually he was just like, bro, I don't wanna deal with this anymore. You know, you're doing great. Go ahead and just take over. Just give me a few things. Pay me this a certain amount of money. And then it worked out great, you know, and I'm still friends with, with all those guys and great relationship and I think it worked out for the best.
They all have their, their separate careers and their have a, a lifetime membership to the gym. They're always welcome to come in and train. Their kids are allowed to come in and train. So, worked out for the best.
Riley: great. You mentioned him kind of burning out [00:25:00] on the gym life. Talk about
gustavo: Um,
Riley: bit. What,
think causes that burnout?
gustavo: you know, I think it's different things for different people. I think for him, he just. It was a different time, a different time as well. It was the time where Pittman was coaching. It was a MMA fever in the region. Everybody and their moms wanted to be an MMA fighter, so it was easy to get students. People were just coming like crazy.
And then that kind of died off, you know? And he didn't really adjust into a jujitsu scene where MMA died, but jujitsu kind of started popping up and, uh,
yeah, he, he didn't have the credential.
Riley: what year would that
gustavo: Um, I'm terrible with dates. What, what year was, were we fighting? M-M-A-M-M-A was big love when you started? Yeah, like 2009 to like 2000. Yeah, I think between 2009 to [00:26:00] 2012 ish, what was like really big that we had so many fighters in our gym, like 40 crazy fighters in the gym. And uh, yeah. After people started realizing, I was like, oh, this is serious business.
People can get seriously hurt. It's not just for fun, you know? You gotta be all in and to be all in. You gotta make some sacrifices in your life. And a lot of people start to realize it's not for everybody, you know?
then it started dying off,
Riley: like George St. Pierre and, and uh, Anderson Silva, kind of that timeframe,
gustavo: correct? Yep. Una, which is, we're from the same town here. I grew up in Westland. That's, that's where I went to school as well. Mean streets of whistling.
Riley: awesome. No, that was a time when, when people would've been very attracted to MMA man. 'cause I those are some superheroes going on right then Some, one of the best, times MMA in the in history.
gustavo: I agree.
Yeah. And then I think,
Riley: that was back to the subject, we were talking [00:27:00] about
gustavo: yeah, and I think in my opinion, Pittman is just, he had just didn't have as many as much help and he didn't have the criteria as like, he was just a purple belt at the time. And it was more like, we'd like to, to joke about it, that he was a, an MMA purple belt, which is very different than our jiujitsu purple belts nowadays.
You know, uh, didn't have the, the people to take over the gym and be able to do that and like able to manage the different people and stuff like that. So I think he was just like, oh, I'm working. And he, he does loans for, for house loans now and very successful, very good at it as well. If you need to buy a house, hit up my boy Pitman, but, uh.
And then he was just like, you're doing a good job. You know, like I can't manage to do both, to be able to do my loans and run the gym at the same time. And the numbers were showing he was like a couple months behind and on the memberships and stuff like that. So he asked for help and we had a couple of, me and Bartlett were Bartlett and my buddy that I [00:28:00] watched at first, you know, we came in, grew up together, training and, uh, young guys hungry to, to get it working and stuff like that.
So it was a good fit at the time. And yeah. But I, I think different people burned out for different re reasons, you know, like I've personally have times most recently felt was like, do I really wanna continue doing this? You know, this is very painful time for, for us, you know, sometimes it doesn't always go the way we want it or the way we envision it and stuff like that.
Riley: man. You mentioned, you know, falling a month or two behind with the memberships. Now, are you referring to the billing of the membership? Is that.
not what you're talking about?
gustavo: Like paying the rent of the gym, which is usually the most expensive bill.
Riley: Yeah, by far. Um, I see those little things with small businesses of any type. You know, it's not just school owners, but any type of small business, it'll get to where they fall behind on, on billing or collections, or sometimes it's just on paying [00:29:00] bills, you know, and, and before long that snowball starts to catch up with them.
And that burnout, it's almost burnout from stress. The stress of the pressure of it all right.
gustavo: Yeah, it's a combination. You know, it's if just like any business, if the business is not profitable and you're putting all this time and work into it and you're just seeing the money going down and down and down, you're like, why am I doing this? Like I'm, I think I remember Pittman mentioned that he was like, he was putting so much work into these people.
He's away from his family, he's on the weekends, he's going to fight shows and doing all this time away. And then out of nowhere these guys would just leave and disappear. And I was like, man. Pour my life into this and then boom, they're just gone like that. You know, they lose a fight and they're like, oh, this is not for me, or this is not for me.
And, and that's, that can be tiring for, for, for a coach as well. You know, we're, we, in order to be a coach, we have to give a lot of us, a lot of ourselves into our students. And [00:30:00] like, I mean, I spend extra weekends on coaching tournaments all day from 8:00 AM to 6:00 PM and it's not like I'm getting paid extra for that.
You know, I'm doing that out of wanting my kid wanting to see my, my team be successful. But it doesn't necessarily make it more profitable, not getting paid by the hour kind of thing. I think down the road it pays off 'cause the family see the value and you like, oh, sacrificing your week into being over here with us, away from your family.
But it's not for everybody, you know? I know a lot of coaches are like, Nope, I'm not doing that.
Riley: Yeah. I think there's a romanticism there. You know, as when you start into the sport, whether it be JIUJITSU or MMA or wrestling or anything, it's like, man, I just, it'd be so cool to teach full-time and to, and, and own my own school, but there's a, there's more to it than just teaching full time. Right.
It's, it's a, there's a lot of other stresses that come with it.
gustavo: One of my buddies, one, he's actually Coach Rubin. He's my guy helping me out in Oregon City and partially gonna [00:31:00] be in Sellwood here as well. He sent me a, a funny, well, not a funny, but a inspiring meme this morning. He is like, oh, there's a black belt, you know, that wish he was just coaching the class and not have all the responsibilities of emailing members and having tough conversations with students.
And there's a brown belt that wish you was just that purple belt, you know, that was just traveling around and competing and have zero responsibilities. And there's a, a blue belt that wish you was as tough as that purple belt. So there's always somebody above you and somebody that wanted to be like you, but.
And like vice versa, you know, like I, I missed the times where I was a purple belt with zero responsibilities, and all I did was train, you know, work a, a dead end job that I didn't have to use any brain power. I just got by to make enough money to, to be able to travel to Texas and see my coach and leave for two weeks.
And I have to be responsible for anything, you know? But obviously I, I love my job. I wouldn't, I'd never wanna go back and work in the office again. You know, like I, I see the value that I bring to my community, to kids, you know, changing lives. But, uh, [00:32:00] yeah, there's, there's, there's pluses in every part of the step, you know?
And I think that's just a journey. You gotta enjoy every piece of the journey, you know?
Riley: Every, every time you level up it looks different. I mean, there's things you didn't anticipate. So, um, I did want to ask you, since you mentioned kids and the, the community and that, um, I got to come visit you here a year, year and a half ago, and I happened to, to come by your school during a kid's class, man.
And you have a flip. It's an amazing kids program. Those, those, you had an obstacle course set up and the kids were running around. And, uh, I want you to talk about that because I think there's, there's something that jujitsu school owners know a lot of 'em, especially the ones with kids programs. The kids program is a big chunk of the income that comes into a school, but it's also a very challenging, uh. Portion. It's, [00:33:00] it's one of the more challenging areas to teach. It's a lot of times, um, know, some people cut out for it and some aren't, and you seem like you really enjoyed it, man. You seem like you're having a great time with all those kids. about that a little bit.
gustavo: Well, first off, thank you. You know, I appreciate the kind words about our program. Uh, and yeah, I'll, I'll be honest, like when I first opened the gym, I kind of looked at Jiu Jitsu overall, and I was like, man. There's a lot of gyms, but the gyms really don't focus on the kids program. They put a lot of their power and a lot of their marketing into the athletes and the competitors.
And I just had the idea. I was like, you know what? I'm gonna focus a hundred percent on the kids program. And I'm not that I don't care about the adults program, but the kids program is gonna be my base. Not only are parents willing to pay whatever price for their kids to be happy, successful, confident, and like, be able to protect themselves, like all the benefits that we get from Jiujitsu.
You know, like why wouldn't you want your kid to do that and feel like that and be the star? You [00:34:00] know, it's the one thing about jiujitsu, like everybody gets to be at stars one point or another. You know, you're gonna be the top white belt in your division, then you're gonna get your gray belt down the road.
You're gonna be the top gray belt in your division. But, uh, my background, so when I was 16 years old, I, I worked in, uh, a private Christian school and I worked with kids from ages zero to four. Eventually I worked for kids zero to 12. So I've always, not always, but I spent quite a bit of time working with kids, and I've been told that I have a gift for kids.
This is other people's words, you know, like, I love working with kids. I think they're, they're awesome. They're, they're real, you know, and I, I tell people like, no other job that you go in and you're greeted by a bunch of hug and I bunch of love every time, and they're so happy. That's their favorite part of their day.
So that kind of makes you feel good. Opposed to in the past where I've worked in the office and your coworkers, you walk in, they're like me, mugging you. And it's not as friendly as working with kids, you know? So I take it to heart that's like, I the best job I ever working with the kids. They're [00:35:00] just, they're just real, you know, just yesterday, one of my 10 year olds told me that my mustache made me look like Egg Man from Sonic, you know,
Riley: So
gustavo: and that cracked me up.
Uh, no, I shaved it because I wanna keep my wife. She also agrees with her.
Riley: funny.
gustavo: Yeah, but I kind of had it just as a joke for my recent matchup that I had a fight to win, but I think I looked better without it. But it was just funny to have it for a little bit. But I like to, to look clean cut, you know?
That's my normal looks.
Riley: you, you mentioned in your, your last statement that a lot of gyms really focus their advertising and their, their marketing toward competitors. Um, my experience is in a typical jiujitsu school or MMA school environment, the amount of those people that actually, the percentage that compete is a fairly small percentage.
Right.
gustavo: Mm-hmm.
Riley: good
is market toward [00:36:00] majority, which is not the competitors. Right. You're talking about kids program, you're talking about the hobbyist adults, guys like me, right. That are, we're in it because we love it. We're not in there because we're competitive. We're not in there because we're, you know, it, it's a life dominating thing for us.
It's important and we love it, from a business perspective, these, those categories are gonna be more profitable. Is that what I hear you saying?
gustavo: Yeah, right. So no parent comes in and brings their kid is like, Hey, I want my kid to be a world champion. Like, I get one out of 300 parents that's like that, you know, and, and they usually don't last. Uh, but people do come in. It's like, Hey, I'd like my kid to, uh, be a little bit more confident and be a little bit more outspoken and learn how to move and, uh, have some friends and some short of time and get sweaty and get a workout.
That's what people want. It's not to become a world champion. You know, some of 'em might end up becoming a world champion, but you'll find that out 10 years down the road if we can keep 'em around for that long [00:37:00] and stuff like that, you know? But yeah, you know, like most adults, they come in and it's like, no, I don't want to compete.
That sounds crazy, you know? Uh, I am a big believer that I think just because like IBGF, it has divisions for guys that are in their fifties, in their sixties, even in their seventies to compete. I think it's part of, of the sport, but I don't think that everybody's for that. You know, some guys are there just a couple days a week to lose some weight and smile and see some people, but some guys are in there and they don't have other things going on in their life, and Jiu Jitsu might be all they got, you know?
And they want to be a world champion Masters five, which we got a few of those guys, you know, and I'm all about it, you know, but it's the minority of people that come in and, and wanna compete. Most of 'em come in just because they wanna learn Jiu Jitsu or they wanna learn how to protect themselves, or they heard Jiu Jitsu was cool from Joe Rogan talking about it, or something like that.
Riley: that.
guy sells a lot of Jiu Jitsu memberships, doesn't He
gustavo: He does. Yeah. I wish he wasn't a temp planner though. Guys. Send me some more guys. Yo,
Riley: for sure. [00:38:00] For sure. Um, what was it that. Originally, I guess this is sort of a, a question I should have asked you earlier, but what was it that, uh, brought you into the Brazilian top team affiliation?
gustavo: so. Uh, my coach Diego, the kind of how everything worked out. He actually ended up coaching at 5 0 3. He was traveling around the United States and then he ended up spending some time at 5 0 3 and he was the first like, high level guy that I was like, oh, this guy is different. I can, at the time, you know, you gotta think we didn't have very many black belts in the region.
You know, there was no DVDs everywhere, easily accessable. So you have to travel to Brazil, you have to go like New York, California, or Texas to be able to find legit black belts, you know? And my coach was fresh off of a Pan American championship win as a black belt. So I was like, whoa, this is my guy right here.
So for the few months that he was here, he kind of took me under his wings. I was his Uber driver, [00:39:00] drove him everywhere. He didn't speak English very well, so he, I'd be translating class for him and I was like, that's my guy, you know, I wanna be ranked under this guy. And he ended up moving back to Brazil, came back and moved to Texas.
Uh, so I was able to. Continue being ranked under him. 'cause I was like, I wanna stay ranked under this guy, you know, high level guy, very well known, respected in the community. And he was legit. I've never seen somebody so as good as him, you know? And, uh, we didn't have a black belt in our gym. So I would spend time traveling to Texas, spending weeks, months there, training with him, spending a lot of private time with him.
And, uh. That's kind of how it came down to that. Like, and then when I became part gym owner, you know, I was like, Hey, Pittman, you know, like, I'd like to switch up the business model and, and, and focus more on Jiujitsu. Uh, our MMA team was known for being like very tough, just grindy, MMA fighters, you know, and I, I didn't like that image for a kid.
Family friendly kids program. And I was [00:40:00] like, I wanna rebrand and start things over and get rid of the MMA program, get rid of the striking classes, uh, and just focus on fitness and Jiu Jitsu with a big emphasis on the kids program. And that's when, uh, it was a perfect time. And, you know, I was, I was only a Purple Bell at the time when I became basically the gym owner, you know?
But at that time there wasn't anybody else, you know, so the highest guy in the room who's highest belt in the room, who's training doing it full time, you know, kind of ends up being the top.
Riley: Yeah, man. It's, it's, it's interesting 'cause sometimes you'll, you'll see people criticize a purple belt that owns a school, Right. And, but crap man, if, if you're a white belt walking in a purple belt, might as well be a multi-time world champion. He's gonna, their technique just feels so solid that you just, you can't comprehend ever getting there.
gustavo: Right. Yeah. And, and people think that they, oh, I just need to have a black belt in the room. It's like, no, man. Like you could have [00:41:00] really good technical blue belt that can teach you the fundamentals that it's gonna take you two years for you to learn to get to where they're not even where there are, but like partially close to where they are, you know, whatnot.
Given there's a lot that black belts bring that lower belts aren't gonna be able to bring, such as the experience and, and the way that you're able to relate to the different types of people that come in the room. You know, you might have this guy that, I don't know, maybe just got outta prison and you got this person who's been a millionaire their whole life and they're gonna be in the same room and you gotta be able to connect with the both of 'em.
So sometimes being a new coach, you don't have that. But black belt that's been doing it, um, 10 years coaching and whatnot, uh. It's gonna have that experience a little bit different. But in regards to the Jiujitsu technique, uh, you really don't need a black belt in the room to introduce somebody to jiujitsu.
Like there's plenty of qualified blue belt purple belts that can do that,
Riley: Something that people who aren't jiujitsu practitioners who are are watching this, um, don't always [00:42:00] understand is
the length of time it generally takes to get a Jiu Jitsu black belt. Talk about that a little bit so the people understand when you say there was no black belts in the area, why? How hard
gustavo: So,
Riley: black belt?
gustavo: So, I mean, it depends who you ask. You know, there's, there's been some controversy recently about some guy gaining 3.5 or yeah, like 3.5 years he got his black belt and he's not a judo black belt or Olympic wrestler or anything like that. So questionable. But my opinion to be a legit black belt, and not just in your skills, but the overall knowledge, the overall ability to communicate and pass on the knowledge to different people and be able to coach a kids, the teens and adults class, you know, it's gonna be about 10 years to be like a complete, complete back belt ready to take your gym over and run and be successful at it,
[00:43:00]
gustavo: but.
I also tell my students, it really varies. It really varies on the person, their goals. You know, like you can't rate everybody the same way. Some guy, he might be this 57 years old guy who's just trying to train. And then you got this [00:44:00] kid who's 17 years old and he's been training since he was four years old, you know, and that's already 13 years old, but he's only a purple belt now.
You know? And you have a, a, a. Older guy who's been training for five years, and he's a purple belt as well. So one of the first things my coach told me, it was like, there, there's black belts, you know, and then there's black belts, you know, there, there's different levels of black belts. And, and depending on who you are and what your goals are, you're gonna be a different person.
You know, I've given out blue belts and six months because these kids were phenomenal. You know, this guy came in, he was super, super good, smart. He's putting in daily doubles every day he's going home, he's studying DVDs, you know, and then he, he just lives the lifestyle. And of course he's gonna get better than the guy that comes in twice a week for, for an hour.
You know, like it's 12 hours a week versus two hours a week, you know? But doesn't mean that the guy that's given two hours a week doesn't have enough knowledge to be a blue belt. Just that the other guy might become one day [00:45:00] a world class black belt if he continues that pace.
Riley: yeah
gustavo: really varies, you know.
Riley: Because there, there are other factors such as age, such as, know.
if you're, if you're a hundred pound female, it's gonna look very different being a, a black belt than it is if you're a 200 pound 30-year-old jacked male. Right.
gustavo: Right. Yeah. And it's just different people, different goals. You know, this person might just wanna learn the moves and know Jiu Jitsu, and this person might be trying to be a world champion. I might even hold the world champion a little bit longer so he can get more experience in that blue belt. You know, like I got some kids that I've been training since they're six years olds, and they're, they're still blue belts.
They've had 11 years of training, but they're, they're not quite at the world class level, and they wanna be world champions. So I'm holding them, you know, while they can go and easily beat up some of my brown belts that didn't start as kids and stuff like that. But it's not just about beating people up in Jiujitsu, it's, it's the overall knowledge.[00:46:00]
Riley: You mentioned the ability to, um, teach, to translate concept of Jiu Jitsu to another person. Talk about that in the, do you, do you have your students begin teaching at a, a certain belt level?
gustavo: Um, I don't force them to teach, but if they want to teach, I give them the opportunity, you know? So a lot of my younger guys are like, Hey, I want to, I wanna have my own gym one day. Uh, I'd like to learn how to teach. I'm like, well, you know, where the best place to start kids class? You know? 'cause if you want to have a profitable gym, you most likely is gonna have to run a kids program.
And kids are the hardest to train, I believe. Like, if you don't know how to do it, it's, it's very hard. You know, once you figure out it's super fun, enjoyable, and not hard at all. But, uh, people, I remember when I first started, you know, and I try to coach three to five year olds and I'd be sweating every class, you know, it was like, man, this is very hard.
And, uh. [00:47:00] 10 years later, I got it down where it's super easy. I'm able to dictate tasks to my coaches. I'm able to train my coaches so they know how to coach appropriately. And uh, now it's easy. But yeah, you know, I have guys that are blue belts and they're assistant coaches and I tell 'em, like, once you're a purple belt, you can basically cover for classes when the coach is gone temporarily, when you're a brown belt, you might be able to run your own program.
You know, when you're a black belt, if you'd like to partner up with me and open your own gym, we can do it. If you'd like to go open your own gym outside of our brand, you know, it's, it is what it is that always wanna keep people in team, but just make sure you go far away so we're not competing with each other, you know.
Riley: for real. Well, you mentioned in there that having a kids program is pretty imperative if you wanna have a profitable gym. What other advice would you give, uh, school owners that would, uh. What other advice would you give them that would help them to grow? Just business strategy type [00:48:00] advice.
gustavo: Um, you have to focus on developing people. You know, like coaching a kids' class is hard, especially if you don't have assistant coaches. So there has to be a good ratio of student to kids, right? So we try to do with our little kids, our, our four to 5, 5, 4 to six year olds, one coach per four kids. That's the most, you know, so if we have 16 kids, I need to have at least three coaches in there kind of thing, right?
And it gets a little bit more kids, the older they get, they need a little bit less attention. But that's, that's really important, making sure you have a good program. Otherwise, it's just. Chaos in there. And it's hard to manage a bigger group, just kind of like how it is in school. You know, they're, they're divided by grade level, by age level.
You know, in, in our program we like to divide by skill level and by age as well. So we have the beginner's class and we have an advanced class, and then we have a younger kids class. And the older kids' class, which is very hard at first when you have a brand new gym. [00:49:00] But as the gym grows, you have to adapt, you have to add more classes.
And to be able to add more classes, you have to have more coaches. 'cause one guy can only coach so many classes a day, you know? So that's, that's a really important part. And just. Focusing on that and training and make sure you continue your education. Uh, I've, I spent a lot of time like reading and, and, and studying different programs.
Uh, there used to be this very famous program that I used to study, like Jujitsu Kids online or something like that. It's where I learned a lot of the different strategies and how to work with different ages. And then one more thing, it helps my, my wife, uh, who is also a black belt and helps me run our Oregon City gym.
She's got a master's degree in child development, so I've been able to bounce ideas off of her and, and learn how to communicate with kids properly with the different ages and stuff like that. So I think that's, that's huge.
Riley: so you're talking, you're, you're constantly refining your teaching technique
gustavo: Absolutely.
Riley: found
it's a [00:50:00] whole different art form, and it also though, applies in any business. It's not just ju Jiu Jitsu schools, you know, you're teaching the art, but you're also, man, if you're not refining your skill level and your, your leadership abilities and your understanding of the situation, you're failing as a business owner.
Would you agree?
gustavo: Yeah, no, I definitely agree. Just like any business, you gotta adapt with the times, you know, uh, back in the day, jujitsu was made for tough people. If you're not tough, get out, you're not gonna make it. You know? And nowadays, you know, I had a talk with one of my coaches recently. I was like, listen, bro, you came from an MMAA wrestling, a football background, where like.
You can tell people to, you gotta work hard or otherwise you're out of here kind of thing. In Jiu Jitsu, you gotta meet where they are. It might be that this guy never becomes tough, and that's okay. You know, we're gonna meet 'em where they are and we're gonna get them to where their full, their potential is.
You know, and their potential is gonna be different than the other guy's potential. And that's okay. And that's one of the things that we've had to adapt. [00:51:00] I think all the business school, you know, like, it's not just about being tough anymore and being the, the best in the room. It's like, all right, you know, like we gotta get everybody to their full potential and, and get, like, understand that it's not just about being tough, it's about kind of growing together and getting to where you, you individually is gonna get to.
Riley: heard people use the term, you know, it's not about whether or not you can beat up everyone else in the room. It's, it's a, it matters whether or not you could beat up yourself a year ago. Right.
gustavo: Correct. Tell them all the time. Like the guy now would beat up the guy from six months ago. I guarantee that.
Riley: Yeah, for real. Um, talk about this. 'cause um, in the, before we started recording, you and I kind of discussed some transition. You had a couple team members that were pretty vital part of your team, step out and move to a different, a different school. I, I take it outside of the BTT umbrella.
I don't know for sure, but you, you'll [00:52:00] speak to that. But what was that like for you? Because every business owner has team transition happen, right? difficult, man. What, tell us about the situation as much as you feel comfortable and then what that.
was like for You as the, as a gym owner.
gustavo: You know, um, that's gonna be tough for everybody, you know? It was, it was very tough for, for me specifically, you know, um,
just like. It kind of caught me off guard a little bit, you know, and I wasn't expecting, really had big plans of growing together and I thought everything was great, and then it, like, it just hit me like, whoa, what, you're not only leaving, but you're leaving to go right next door, 10 minutes away from where you're coaching, which, you know, no, no business owner.
Like, yes, I'm, I'm, I'm gonna be happy for them that they're transitioning and it's gonna be good for them, but I don't want that to be in my expense. Like, you're gonna take 60% of my clients and like, [00:53:00] leave me without coaches for the time, you know? But as a business owner, you know, that's, that can happen.
You know, like sometimes you, it's you're in disagreement with things or it is just maybe a better opportunity for them and whatnot. And they had to go and I was left to kind of, kind of scramble with three gyms and losing two of my highly valued coaches, you know, and stuff like that. Uh. It was pretty rough for a few months.
You know, I ended up having to close my Selwood for five months because I just didn't wanna just throw anybody there. You know? I wanted to make sure the people that I put in there are qualified and well trained and that I trust, you know? 'cause I don't like to just put any, like, I know some gyms that would just post on Facebook, oh, we're looking for this coach, this and that.
And I just feel like that's a lot, you know, like I've worked very hard to build the name of my brand, to build my reputation. I'm very well known in the region. Everybody knows who I am, so I'm not gonna just put anybody there and have them working with kids and stuff like that. So it has to be some people that are very close to [00:54:00] me that I trust, you know, with, with my own kids and stuff like that.
So it took a minute for me to get these guys caught up and trained and whatnot. So, like I said, we're getting ready to reopen now, but it's tough. You know, imagine paying rent for five months and not getting any profit from the gym. You know, that's gonna break any business. So all the profit that I made from my other gyms was going.
Into paying for that gym that I had to close down completely, and then lost 60% of the members in my other gym, which was brutal, you know? But fortunately it seems that everything is working out for everybody. I think they're doing okay. Um, my gyms are starting to pick up again and getting back in the track that the students are getting used to the new coaches and stuff like that.
But it's a very difficult time, you know, like we put a lot of time into people's, like, that's part of what I was telling later. People get burnt out. And I, I was like, very, very sad and heartbroken for a little while. I was like, man, I can't believe, you know, that they would just leave and stuff like that.
And I put a lot of time [00:55:00] into them, you know, many, many years training, helped them get to where they got. And then they were just like, all right, we're out. You know? And I was like, dang, now what? You know? But like, uh. Talked to my coaches, talked to Moody Bu, and my coach Diego. I was like, well, welcome to the team.
You know, everybody that's been a gym owner has been through this before, and if they haven't yet, their time will come as well. You know, it's just, just kind of the industry, I guess. You know, you, you, you wanna train people to be so good and as good as you, and you hope them that, that they're gonna continue doing well.
Uh, you always want them to stick by your side, but it doesn't always happen. You know, they sometimes don't have the opportunity to do it themselves, so they have to go with somebody else, you know, and somebody else sometimes might be right next door to you, and we just gotta live with it, you know? It's, it's unfortunate and, uh, it's sad, you know, I miss having them in the team, but what can you do
Riley: Yeah, man. I think that's a healthy perspective because you know [00:56:00] again, it's not just just Jiu Jitsu schools, right? It's any business goes through that where
gustavo: right?
Riley: change or
their own, own version of the same thing. Competing, competing business or whatever, man, someone, I mean, God forbid someone passes away and you lose a leader that way.
There's, there's all these ways that can happen that are, it's emotional, man. It, it, it digs deep. And what have, have you done as far as just dealing with that emotion?
gustavo: Um, you know, really kind of trying to avoid it, you know, like just trying to my best to, to be understanding of, of their situation. But, you know, even though their situation had severe consequences in my life, uh, not just financial, you know, but mental one as well. So just mess as I can, trying to look at the, the, the positive sides of it.
And, uh. What the best [00:57:00] outcome, what, what I can do from now, you know, I try not to dwell so much on the past and what I could have done, could have been, or on more focus on like, all right, now what, what am I gonna do now? You know? So I just bite down and try to work as hard as I can and be the best coach I can be, and continue providing a great product and continue training the next generation so they can continue to help me.
And maybe one day, you know, they, they decide that they want to continue partnering up with me or we'll, we'll, we'll go from there, you know, but, uh, I don't know like what much I can do, you know, other than accept the fact and, and continue working, continue moving forward.
Riley: I'm, I'm pretty impressed, man. 'cause you mentioned, you mentioned in there that you had had gone to some mentors and asked them, you know, gosh, how do I handle this? And they, they gave you some good advice. It's just like, Hey man, this happens to all of us. And we've all felt that we've all been there, you're gonna get through it. And then it sounds like you're, you've just taken a very healthy perspective. It's like, [00:58:00] yeah, it hurts it, I've got some pieces to pick up. I'm gonna be walking with a limp here for a little bit, but we're gonna get through it and we're gonna, we're gonna come out the other side. Okay. It's just gonna take some time. And you're not, you know, I've seen the, especially the business world, you know, where there's sometimes a lot of drama behind it, and you haven't, you haven't shown that. I know in your heart you probably felt a lot of drama, but it's, uh, you haven't shown that publicly, at least as far as I've seen.
gustavo: Yeah. You know, I don't, I don't think it does anybody any good, you know, like I don't think. Um, regardless of the consequences of what happened, I don't think they're malicious people that they were like, they wanna take me down or anything like that. I just think that they made a decision that was gonna benefit them, you know?
And, uh, like I said, like it's not the first time. It's not the last time. You know, like in the last few years I've had six different coaches leave, you know, a couple of five of 'em, you know, started and, [00:59:00] and, and got their own programs, you know, and part of that is like, cool, you know, I'm, I'm doing my job right.
You know, I'm producing talented coaches and talented people who are going out there and, and doing the thing that they're supposed to be doing. You know, obviously the business side's like, dang it, now I gotta replace him. I gotta put somebody else there. You know? But I think that's, that's the nature of any job.
You know, like, I had a, a talk with one of my very successful friends. He's like, construction business. You, you go and teach this guy everything, you know, all of a sudden he opens a construction company as well, and now he's your competitor, you know, and it. It's, I'm not sure if there's a way around it, you know, like, you know, I'm, I guess I'm still, I'm still learning, you know, I'm not, I'm not perfect.
I can't say I know it all, you know, so I'm still seeing how, how to do everything, you know, like I, I look to my, to my, to my friends and my, my mentors and people like, who's been doing this for a lifetime and try to get the best advice as I can. And my coach [01:00:00] Diego as well. But I don't know if anybody really has an answer in the Jiujitsu community or like, what's, what's the exact way that's gonna work for every single person?
You know? It's just different people have different goals. I don't, I don't really think there is, you know?
Riley: No, I don't think there is a way around that in any business, right? You're gonna have turnover. Things are gonna happen that are hard, and that's just part of it. And we have to develop that muscle, get used to it. Um, and we switch gears a little bit and do some lighter stuff. We're kind of starting to run into a little bit of a time
gustavo: Before I start crying in here, before I start crying in here.
Riley: no, I hear it, man. I don't want to, I don't wanna dig into that because we've owners, we've all felt it, man. And it doesn't, again, it doesn't matter what, what type of business,
[01:01:00]
Riley: but quick, who's your favorite grappler
gustavo: Oh man. You know, man, people ask me favorites. I don't have a favorite anything. I don't have a favorite color. I don't have a favorite song, favorite movie. I admire different people for different reasons. You know, like I'm a fan, like I've spent a lot of time reading. Reading and listening to the greats, like best tennis player or like Andre Agassi or Mike Tyson or George St.
Pierre, or just the top of, I admire people that are, are the best at what they do and the drive that they have and, and, and stuff like that. I'm not necessarily like, [01:02:00] I'm have a favorite fighter or favorite coach or anything like that. I like, I'm not a fanboy, but in that stance, I, I admire people prefer who they are, but I'm not fanboying over anybody.
You know, I, I, I like guys like Roger Gracie, Marcelo Garcia, you know, gsp, uh, Anderson Silva. Jose Aldo was one of my big guys of like, whoa, wow, I wanna fight like that guy, you know? But there's a lot of guys like John Jones, great fighter, maybe not as great human being. I don't know him personally, but at least what media seems to convey, you know?
But there's just so many talented people out there, and I just admire the greats and whatever sport that it may be that they're, they're great at.
Riley: Yeah, man, world class athletes, you, you, you've had a taste of what it takes to be that. And man, I, I have such a massive respect for those guys and what it, what it takes behind the scenes. And like you said, we only see what the media says about certain people, but we don't see what else goes on in their world. Right.
gustavo: Right.
Riley: [01:03:00] a, a book you would recommend everyone read? You mentioned you're a reader earlier.
gustavo: Um, oh man. I, I think it really varies depending on the point of your life. I've had a lot of self health books that were good. I like Malcolm Gladwell a lot. Uh,
you know, is a great book. Um, I like Paulo Coelho, who's very inspiring. The Alchemist is probably, that might be one of my favorite books, you know, but.
I've also liked Mike Tyson's autobiography, Oscar de Lahoya biography, George Stre biography. You know, like, um, I mean, even Matthew McConaughey's biography, I was very, really enjoyed reading that book to see like, his perspective and in becoming an actor and how everybody's life is, is a little bit different, you know?
So I don't, I don't have specific book recommendations. Just, it, it, it's gonna depend on where you're at in your life and what, what, what you kind of need, you know. But I do like the self pop books, you know, [01:04:00] biographies as well, focus more on real books opposed to fiction, although the Paul ones are very good
Riley: think you're the
gustavo: Brazilian actor.
Riley: book in on this podcast. So maybe take some, uh, for the audience take, take some advice and read, read his stuff. It's good. Um
gustavo: it's entertaining, but very inspiring as well.
Just a different world that I have no clue about.
Riley: for real. Uh, what's your favorite pastime outside of Jiujitsu?
gustavo: So I like traveling. You know, partially why I got into Jiu Jitsu was I was, I saw my coach, I was like, what you do Jiu Jitsu and you get to travel the world Like this is awesome, you know, and I've always wanted a job outta high school. Uh, I wanted to work for Nike 'cause I was like, ah, maybe I'll get to travel the world and stuff like that.
So that's probably my favorite thing is just traveling and going to castles and, uh, just experiencing different cultures in different countries and the different ways that people [01:05:00] live. You know, uh, when I'm at home, I really don't do much. I, I spend a lot of hours in the gym, either coaching or just socializing with the people at the gym.
I come home, I eat, I do my, my duties, my laundry, watch the Million Gees that we have, you know, and then I'll watch a little bit of TV at night. Mixtures of everything you can think of, you know, but that's about it. I don't, I really don't do much, you know, when I'm here, I'm just. Kind of focus on, on the gym lifestyle.
And I don't know if it's because I, I, I've been fighting or being an athlete since I was 16 years old. So most of my life I've been very disciplined and I'm not so much partying. I am not, you know, I, I didn't develop too many hobbies 'cause I was all in, if you wanna be successful in the sport, trying to be a professional athlete, you gotta be all in.
You gotta put everything else aside, you know, and, and, and I guess I just got used to that lifestyle, you know, might go on a hike here and there. But the fact that I have to do so much physical work already at the gym, I'm [01:06:00] already socializing all day long. That when it's, when I'm not, I'd like to be home alone, quiet with my wife and my cats.
Riley: You mentioned something that is kind of funny to me is the, the washing all of your gi Right? I, uh, in our, in our jiujitsu commercial for salty electrolytes, we, we have a scene in there of somebody putting their giee in the laundry and people ask me that, you know, they're just like, why did you put that in there?
I was like, 'cause it's a major part of jujitsu. You have no idea how much laundry we do.
gustavo: Right? Yeah. A lot every day.
Riley: gosh, man. Um, have you ever been in a fight outside of the ring?
gustavo: Huh. That's funny. I tell that story to my students all the time. I'm like, Nope. I am never been in a fight outside of the ring. I'm a very non-confrontational person. Like I don't like confrontation, which sometimes I think like, how did I become a freaking fighter? Like, I don't like fighting at all. Like outside of when I was a little kid and I got in a couples scuffles with my cousins, you know who I love dearly, but.[01:07:00]
Not really, never had been in a fight. You know, I, I tell a story. I was in middle school and I almost got into a fight where we pushed each other and then I ended up in the freaking with the, like in the counseling office, like crying over the whole thing. You know, I'm just not a fighter in that sense.
And look, I'm always been an athlete. I don't like fighting, I don't like conflict. And I'm always scared of I'm gonna get in trouble and go to jail and something like that. And especially after I started fighting professionally, I was like, no way. I'm gonna fight for free on the street and like risk getting in trouble.
Like, you want me to fight? Pay me. You know?
But yeah, I'm not a fighter like that.
Riley: I, I, I've talked to three people this week that, that question's come up for whatever reason where somebody goes, you know, you guys, you guys trained Jiujitsu, or you're in the MMA scene and you're, do you, does it make you just want to fight? I'm like, not even close man. And everyone I've talked to says the same thing.
They're just like, no way. is not appealing at all. Let's, let's do it for sport and it's fun. But we could if we had to, [01:08:00] but forbid
gustavo: Yeah. Like, yeah, I got the skills and I just hope I never have to use it, you know, and I'm more likely to walk away and run than, than have to fight people. And that's, that's part of becoming a good martial artist and having the confidence to, to be able to walk away, you know, that's the best fight you get.
It's the one that you don't get into, you know, like that's how you win the fight. 'cause win or lose, you're gonna, you're gonna hurt somebody, you're gonna get in trouble or two, they're gonna hurt you and you're gonna be all broken. Like it's a lose lose when getting fights outside of the gym.
Riley: Yeah, I, I, I always tell people my, my number one guard is my triathlon guard. I'm gonna swim, bike, or run whatever it takes to get outta that situation. Uh, have you what's the scariest moment you've ever had A near death experience? You ever had one.
gustavo: Yeah, you know, I've had a couple, um, had a couple when I was swimming once in the ocean and I was, it [01:09:00] just kept pushing me farther and farther away. And I was waving to my parents and they're like, oh, he's so cute. Look at him over there. Boogie boarding, you know? And I was like, no, come save me. Like I keep getting pushed further and further away.
And that was a little bit scary. Uh, had another time I fell off a roof and like hit my. My hip on the sink, fortunately, and I think that saved me 'cause it didn't hit my head and I didn't fall straight into the floor. So that kind of saved the impact. But I did have a really close one and I was pretty small, probably like 10, 11 years old when I was still living in Brazil before I moved up here.
And, uh, we, I was just swimming in this, in this kind of river that was a nice calm river, but at the very end of it, it became like a stream into this other giant strong river that killed people all the time. And the river was calm and all of a sudden this current came and started taking me away. And like, I wasn't a great swimmer.
I'm still not a great swimmer, so I don't mess with water anymore, you know. But that was a very close call. I remember, like, I started [01:10:00] yelling for help and one guy threw me a couple floaties and I was able to grab onto the floaties and pull myself out, grabbing into some trees that fell, and I threw the floaties back into him and he didn't catch it.
And the floaties just went down the river and he wanted me to catch it. I was like, no, no way. You know? And, uh, that was very scary. That that's about the closest I had, you know? But yeah, that's, that's the one, you know, I still remember it to today, and I'm, I'm not, I'm not about the river life anymore, you know, I like the pools just sitting down and chilling.
Maybe a little bit in the ocean, but not even that deep
Riley: I hear you man. well, tell me this, what, what's a bucket list challenge? What's something that you, to do before the end of your life?
gustavo: man. On my bucket list, I have this little map on my wall. It's all the places I've been, you know, I think I've counted like 23, 26 different countries. I wanna. Go as many as possible. You know, I'd like to check out so many more countries. Haven't been to [01:11:00] Asia yet. Well, real haven't been to like Japan type part.
Asia. I've been to Turkey, which is part Asia, part Europe, but almost feel like it doesn't qualify 'cause it's so close, you know? So gotta check out the continents and keep traveling the world. That's kind of my, my bucket list, really?
Riley: Um, when you hear the term go wearing your salt, you know, we both happen to be sporting the T-shirts today. Um, appreciate you wearing that, man. You look good in it. Uh
gustavo: Yeah.
Riley: term,
mean to you?
gustavo: It just means you gotta go put the work, you know, you can't be, it's like you can't be taking your supplements if you're not working for it. So you gotta go put in the work and then after you put in the work, you gotta recover. Make sure you're, you're good to go again, all your electrolytes are back in place so that you can go put in the work again.
Riley: tell me this, where can you be found?
gustavo: So you can find me on [01:12:00] Instagram, Bonzai Bessa. You can find me on our YouTube channel, Brazilian Top Team Oregon. I'm also on FA Facebook, uh, Gustavo Bessa, my real name. Uh, yeah, and obviously any of my GM names. BTT Happy Valley, BTT, Oregon City, BTT, Sellwood. I got a few other Instagram pages. My Bonzai Army, which is like a highlight page for some of my competition and some of my students' competition.
And then, yeah, our YouTube channel. I've actually got like probably five months worth of free technique in there that I've been uploading from every day on my classes last five months. We're getting ready to set out a, a database with all the techniques for our students, so add a little bit more value to, to our community.
Riley: man. well listen, we'll put those, uh, put all those, those social contacts in the episode description. Okay.
gustavo: Sounds good. Thank you so much.
Riley: Excellent, man. Gustavo, I I sure appreciate you coming on my friend.
gustavo: Hey, thank you so much for having me. This was actually pretty fun, you [01:13:00] know, feeling pretty good talking with you. So thanks for having me and letting me share a little bit of my story.
Riley: Go in your salt, my friend.
Thank you. Likewise.
Come and visit soon.