Jennifer: [00:00:00] I spent far too much time concerned with other people's thoughts.
And if you try to make everyone happy, you make nobody happy.
Riley: Yeah.
Jennifer: You have to have lines in the sand. You have to be able to make executive
decisions. you have to be comfortable not being liked.
Riley: today I have some special guests. This is Rich and Jen Jones. They are friends the world outside of this podcast, , their kids grapple in the same class as as my son. And we got to know each other on the sidelines of the Juujitsu gym and, uh, man. As far as salt, electrolytes go, rich and [00:01:00] Jan are customer number one. They were the first purchase that came through our website. Thank you guys. You probably still have a trophy. Rich.
Rich: I am not, I'm not one for bragging, but
Riley: Yeah. He got the
Rich: L Uno.
Riley: one trophy for the first purchase of salt electrolytes. Oh, I love it. Um. So anyways, I've got Rich and Jen on. They spent a long career in law enforcement and have now moved on to other things in, in the retirement years. And yeah, I just wanna welcome you guys to the show.
It's gonna be a good time. Really looking forward to talking to you.
Rich: Thanks Riley. Uh, we're,
we're honored to be here.
Jennifer: Thanks for having us on here, and we've enjoyed your friendship and getting to know your family outside of all this as well.
Riley: Yeah. This is super cool. Um, let's get started with just talking about law enforcement. What, what got you guys into that [00:02:00] career in the first place?
Rich: I think I'm gonna defer to the boss every time, so she gets to go first, then I'll go. I have to live with her and if I step on her toes, it's not gonna be good for me.
Riley: It's wise.
Jennifer: Okay, so I know my husband's going to say that he was put on earth to be a cop. He was born to be a cop. I don't wanna steal his thunder. Uh, my father joined the police department in San Francisco right after he got outta the Vietnam War. So I grew up with law enforcement in the family. I don't know if it was a boomer generation thing or who my dad was, but he was the type that didn't come home and talk about stories.
So lot of people who know cops are like, oh man, they have the best stories, they have the best tales. Um, he may have, but it was one of those things where he left it at the door. When he came home, was not dinnertime conversation. Um, I think he was trying to shield us because he spent a good portion of his career in homicide and sex crimes.
So I could tell you now if [00:03:00] that's what I was doing with two young kids at home, I would not be sharing stories either. Instead, I'd be sharing, Hey, you know where you wanna see that concert? Just know something bad happened outside of there the other day. So I got a lot of warnings and I got a lot of cautionary tales, but I didn't get good stories, so that was not necessarily on my trajectory.
And I went to college in San Francisco, like my husband. My whole little bubble was San Francisco. I went to high school in the city. I went to University of San Francisco and I I'd do something in a capacity where I'd be helping people. But once, uh, I was actually on the path to go to dental school and my father was like, we, the dental school I toured back in 2006 was $80,000 a year. And so my father's like, you know, if you get in, move heaven and earth. We'll refinance the house. We'll leverage, however, a backup plan's always a good thing. Why don't we, why don't we try you out for the police department? Back then, the city budget was such that they only ran a certain number of classes.
And [00:04:00] if the budget ran out, classes were put on hold. And so a new list was coming out. Each list was good for three years. So my father was like, just get on the list, let's see how it goes. And so I did, um, with everything I tested in, I excelled. I was, uh, out of I think a couple, maybe a couple thousand applicants.
I was ninth on the list. So I was like, okay. He's like, let it be a good placeholder. But then the more I went through the process, it just clicked and it just, knew I wanted to help people in some capacity, you know, and obviously dental work would've been amazing, but the more I went through the interview process, it just lined up so much more. And I really saw myself going in that direction. So I got the call while I was completing college. Uh, I probably had about a year and a half to go they said, you know, we don't know how many classes you're gonna have until the budget runs out, but if you wanna get in, see what you have to do. So I spoke with my counselor.
I accelerated the classes. Um, at the time I was taking a couple majors. I narrowed it down to one [00:05:00] I completed the police academy actually in tandem with my final college classes. And it was, it was actually a very good fit. And to answer your question, it was kind of in the family, but it was all chance that it really all lined up for myself.
Riley: Yeah, it sounds like it wasn't something you
expected at all.
Jennifer: Hit it off. because it wasn't in the home. I wish my father had come home and told me some good stories, but it just. I think he was really seeing the nitty gritty and he was in, he spent most of his time, I'll let you know, my husband will talk about his career, but my husband was on the streets a lot.
My dad was actually in the bureau a lot wearing a suit and title work. But when you're an investigator, going further down the rabbit holes of what happened. So patrol will handle, there's a sexual assault. They deal with the victim. The investigators are the ones sitting at the hospital while the victim's getting a rape kit done and finding out, you know, and uncovering stones and, hey, there's more victims.
And that's what my father spent the majority of his career doing. So when he [00:06:00] came home, not only was he he was done and didn't wanna discuss it, but it was not conversation. So, yeah, I, I wasn't as indoctrinated as I wish I was before joining the department, it was that I, I, it's good that he encouraged me to go that route, which is actually surprising considering how much he saw and how much he did. But it was a very good. that's, that's pretty cool.
Riley: you say you wish you were indoctrinated more, what, what, what, do you mean by that?
Jennifer: do you mean by that?
I wish, I mean, there I. as nitty gritty and as traumatic as police
work can be, there's so much good as well. And there's so much camaraderie and there's so much the patrol car talk and the partners and the people, you know, uh, like my husband went to many christenings and our wedding, out of 220 guests, I'd say about 150 of 'em were police officers.
Like there is that brotherhood and everyone always talks about the thin blue line, but they're using that in a that is [00:07:00] secrecy. It's not, we all have each other's backs and there's so much good, and my father had so many close bonds and when I joined the department, people would come up to me, Hey, you know, when I got my divorce, he would let me leave work a little early.
When my mom died, he had the most beautiful flower arrangement. I didn't even hear those sides. Just the, the friendship and people helping each Mm-hmm. And also. You know, you develop
that dark humor because when you are on a long crime scene or you are at the hospital at two in the morning dealing with victims, there are some good inside jokes or some banter.
So even that part, and for example, like I didn't even go shooting before the department. It would've been great if he had taken me to the range and taught me how to shoot. So things like that, I, in a way it was nice level playing field that I came in with other people that did not have that advantage.
But someone in the house who was a captain of police at the time with multiple decades of experience, it would've been nice to kind of have that edge as well. But I went in blind like many of my classmates in that regard. Yeah, That's interesting. I, I [00:08:00] have
Riley: a, a good friend of mine that was, has worked in law enforcement around the Boise area for 35 years, and
Jennifer: 35 assumed his kids all grew up with all firearms and this sort of a thing. and and I got on a shooting range with one of his children and I was shocked. I was, she had never shot, she, I mean,
never had a couple times, but not enough to where there was any proficiency there, and she was very nervous around her, her handgun.
Riley: And I thought, wow, okay, thought, maybe that's a, that's a real thing. But a, surreal what got you started in that field? I.
Jennifer: got you started? Um, well, uh, I, she's right and I hate telling her that, but she's been right. Uh, most of our, uh, lives together. Uh, I, she's heard this story a thousand times. I, I fully believed God put me on the planet to be a cop. Um, I had met a cop when I was very young. And when I was really young, I always wanted to be a doctor.
Rich: I loved medicine and spoiler alert, you know, [00:09:00] uh, as I got in the police department, they put me through excuse, excuse me, emergency medical school and, and was able to do a lot of medicine that way. But I realized I was never gonna be a doctor. I'm not good in school. Uh, it's not my forte. Um, and I met a cop walking the beat and I thought he was the coolest.
And I think now looking back, um, you know, a lot of my psychologists say it's, uh, it's part of your psychological disorder that you need to have things in order, right? I don't know which one it is, but it's like, I love the order of things I liked. My eldest is like this, uh, he's 11. He likes having things be in order.
When, when things are chaotic, he'll do anything to get him back in order. So I think, you know, early on I just, it was just what I was gonna do from as far back as I can remember. I [00:10:00] wanted to be a San Francisco cop. That was it. Um, and. It, it took a long, long, long time to get there, like Jenny says, it was, um, at the time, and, and I came in in 98 and I had applied by probably 1995, and it was chaotic.
It, everybody wanted a government job. Um, it was a secure job. It, you know, the pay wasn't the best. Um, but you had, you know, all these benefits. And for me, I'm like, I, I don't care who gets in my way. This is my destiny. So, uh, it was, it was years and years and years of, uh, trying to get in. You know, they had something called consent decree when I first applied.
And, um, I wasn't the, the profile that they were looking for. So once I finally got in, you know, the written test, I don't know if I've told you this was over a thousand people, you know, and you're looking [00:11:00] around, you're like, they're only gonna take whatever it was, 50. You're like, this is, I don't know how I'm gonna do this.
I've never excelled at anything. Um, so to, to kind of make it down the path, uh, and, and get to where, well, I'll jump ahead and it's just, I feel so grateful for the company that we work for, that, um, I would do anything for them. You know, I, all the training they gave me, all the education, they gave me all the opportunity.
I felt super blessed to do it.
Riley: Man uh, now you guys met on the job, is that correct?
Jennifer: That is correct. Um, I. completed the academy, so the academy when I.
went through was, I wanna say 32 weeks long, so almost eight months, and then they kick you off to the street and you go to a training station. And out of 10 district stations in San Francisco, I wanna say eight, we're [00:12:00] opened up to training because some of 'em are a little more relaxed and a little more residential.
So you don't get as much of the, um, element of crime, which is great for the residents that live there. Not fun when you're a 23-year-old police officer that wants to get out there and, and go, so they sent me to Tenderloin and field training. Unless you get extended, you have three phases. It should be about four months where you're with a senior officer who's with you, like glue.
They monitor your every move, you're evaluated every day. And there's a debriefing daily. So in, I completed the police academy in December of 2007 and Rich was assigned to Tenderloin Station, as was I, I was sent there as, uh, for training. He was, he was a field training officer, but he was not my field training officer. he and I had actually met, um, I wanna say two weeks before academy graduation for what's called OSFT. I'll let Rich go into the OSFT element, what he did there. And that's actually where we initially had met.
Riley: So for, for those who are not from [00:13:00] the San San Francisco area, is Tenderloin a nickname for somewhere? Is that an actual thing?
Jennifer: Which is referring to me. So the Tenderloin is actually the name of a district. It's a little triangle shape. It's like barely seven blocks, I wanna say. for those who aren't familiar with San Francisco, I, I, I tell everybody who's not from there, it's Skid Row. I mean, everybody knows Los Angeles Skid Row, but Skid Row in Los Angeles is massive.
It is just miles of decrepitness and homelessness and despair. And San Francisco's Tenderloin is on a smaller scale of that, but for, it's small but mighty where Skid Row may have length and size and width. The Tenderloin, we had buildings that were. 11 stories. I, I, rich, I'll let him weigh in more.
He spent a decade there. I only spent a couple months there, but it is, um, per capita, there is a lot more going on there just due to the height of all the buildings and how many people they cram in there.[00:14:00]
Riley: Talk about that, Rick or Rich, I wanna hear your side.
Rich: Yeah, so Officer, uh, officer Survival and Field Tactics, OSFT, those of us that were doing, um, like special operations at the time, I was, uh, blessed enough to be a sniper for the city for most of my career there, and I, I ended up doing 26 years, so I think I did 24 ish. If the guys see this, they're gonna kill me.
I think I did 24 on, on the. Teams. Um, most of that was as a sniper, but I was also a firearms instructor. Um, and this is kind of dovetailing into my dream job, you know, I got into the police department and they're like, okay, you know, you're gonna be a cop. You're like, go out and catch bad guys. I'm like, this is unbelievable.
And they're like, you know, we'll give you a gun. I'm like, a free gun and we'll give you ammo. Oh my goodness. And then they're like, you know, you can join special [00:15:00] operations. I'm like, tell me more. They're like, we'll give you machine guns and snipers. You can go out for repelling and medic and all this. And I'm like, a kid in a candy store, right.
Uh, we weren't very affluent growing up. We were, you know, uh, lower middle class. And so this was unbelievable for me, you know, that this company would provide all this equipment and training. So long story short, I had gone out for the, the, the team and. I, I made it by the grace of God, I don't know how. And so as part of that, we get to teach, we call 'em the kids, the recruits coming outta the academy.
We get to teach the kids. And so for officer survival field tactics, one of the things we'd teach 'em is, you know, how to survive on the street. Whereas the, the police range would show you how to shoot. We would kind of, you know, dovetail that into a traffic stop. You bail out of the car, shots are fired, you know, where do you wanna move?
How do you wanna strike a human? Where on the, you wanna strike [00:16:00] them? Um, mindset, you know, those sorts of things. That's, uh, when I met Jenny, and we have a, a long, we've been together a long time now, but we have a long standing joke that, um. I, I didn't, I didn't like her. When I, when I first saw her, she was this blond, platinum blonde, and she had this horrible, like, greasy lipstick and she just was all dolled up.
And that was the, the first time we had met. And, and she'll tell a different story. Um, I, she only, she only started dating me and, and thank God married me for my ears. She has an obsession with big eared humans. And so these dumbos were out, you know, in my full battle rattle, you know, and I'm way cool when you're teaching Officer Survival, you're like, I'm in kit.
I have, you know, I am it, right? I'm in black, we call 'em pajamas. I'm in my pajamas and I'm showing the kids and I'm rough, right? And so I was big [00:17:00] peacocky out in front of all the Lexi hates this, uh, in front of all these kids. And then to get down to it, I had been working the tender. Um, I don't know how long I had been there and by the time Jenny got there, but it was, uh, it was my favorite place in the city to work.
It was, like Jenny said, it was complete de degeneracy drugs on a scale that was unimaginable. Um, death and despair constantly day after day after day. And my family actually owned a restaurant, funny enough, in the Tenderloin back before it was, um, not, you know, a CD part of town. It was in a fancy Italian restaurant.
And so. You know, the opportunity had come up by the grace of God again, that I was able to get down and work in the Tenderloin. And I'm like, yes, please look at, it's like Disneyland for, for a working young cop. Um, and so I, I walked the beat [00:18:00] down there for a long time by myself. I loved it. Uh, my heart is still in the Tenderloin and I, I know we talked about some stories about Knuckles and Rambo and, um, you know, some of the, the characters down there and I'd love to tell you about them.
But that was, uh, kind of where we met was, uh, officer Survival, uh, me teaching her. And then she came down and I'm like, I guess she's not nearly as dolled up as I was worried about. And you know how things happen. We didn't date when she was in the training program 'cause it's, it's very taboo. Um, but it wasn't until, uh, she got over to probation in the Bayview, I believe, uh, that, uh, we started stalking each other.
Riley: Jen, I want, I want your side of this story.
Jennifer: Yeah. So I did, I did notice him at Officer Survival. Um, I do, I, it's funny, I do have a thing for Big Ears. He noticed a pattern. He's, he knows a couple of my exes and he's like, okay, I'm seeing a pattern here. So, you know, you like what you like and. [00:19:00] I did notice the ears, and he, his nickname was the sto because I guess the three Stooges, he just has this, I'm sure you've seen it ri even at the studio, at the Jiujitsu studio, he has this persona he's on, you know, he's animated, and he was in stooge in his full stooge, uh, regalia.
However, got a little, as we started dating and progressing, I was like, okay, you can drop the stooge stuff a little bit, but it, it gets your attention. And he, he's very dynamic. He draws people in. He's got a lot of personality. So, yeah, while I was at Tenderloin, um, he was not my field training officer, but once I completed the program, thankfully without extension, and I did get to walk a beat together. And, um, rich, loved foot, beat Rich as you know, he, he talks to everybody. So while we're on foot beat, we're going into restaurants. We're going into shops. He knows ev, he knows all the people he loved. Just he'd see a homeless person with one leg, you know, sunning himself, and he just wants to stop and get his life story.
So it was a very interesting shift. We worked one shift together and, uh, I moved [00:20:00] to what Rich said, the Bayview District, which for those not in the know and not from San Francisco, the Bayview District is our little, it's our little Oakland, it's our little like Detroit area. It's not the most diverse.
It's not the most gentrified. Um, it heavily serves a, an African American population. So I went there and Rich at the time was on a Citywide Plain clothes team. So I noticed that I kept getting backup him and his partners. It was very nice. I'd be towing a car, which is what we'd call a C priority call, which is, you know, a priority.
Shots fired, um, a priority. There's people fighting with bats. B priority, there's a fight outside a bar, there's a lot of arguing. Um, or B priority. There's a guy yelling in the yard. He may be trying to break in C Priority. There's a dog barking, there's a car being towed. So I noticed I was getting a lot of backup from Rich and his partners on my C priority calls.
And then, yeah, he finally made his move, but he waited until I was off field training. So I'm gonna blame [00:21:00] him for that He made, the one who made the He made, you his a priority, huh?
There you go. yes, Ever since, yes, correct. romantic there. Geez. Um, well, so talk about this. So, so now you guys, you, you start to see each other, but you're, you're both working some pretty dangerous areas. before we move on to that part, I guess I, I do wanna talk about, you mentioned knuckles and Rambo. Please do.
Rich: Alright, so like you said, the Tenderloin, you know, it's this triangle, it's 10, you know, about 10 blocks. She says seven. But those are those that didn't spend a lot of time down there in the Tenderloin. She was only down there for FTOI. That was my pat and I'm, I'm jabbing her intentionally. Um. There was just a cast of characters.
Uh, you would go to work and at the time I was working midnight, so nine at night till seven in the morning, [00:22:00] 2107. And, and the place was alive. Um, it was, you know, drugs on every corner. Like I said, shooting stabbings, pandemonium. And there was these denisons, the, the, the, the people that lived there in these SROs or single residency occupancy hotels.
So imagine it's a, a big, it looked like an apartment building. And inside the apartment building would be 60, 80 units. And each person would have their own room. Well, they're not much bigger than a jail cell, right? So it might be 12 by 12, uh, 10 by 10. And then they had like a shared bathroom on the, the floor.
Each floor would have a bathroom. It's really deplorable living conditions and. You know, everything that would go along with that, you know, fights. And like I said, well, as you kind of progress and you're starting to learn like the vibe and the energy in, in this whole neighborhood, you'd start running into the [00:23:00] same people, right?
And you'd be like, you'd ask the senior guys or the guys that then there along, or, or girls. Uh, and at the time we were called the Tenderloin Task Force. It wasn't even its own station. It wasn't, uh, its own police station. It was an offshoot because it was just this really, uh, uh, a place that needed more attention, more police tension.
It ended up being, uh, its own police station. Um, probably around 2000. So you would ask these guys like, oh, who's that? Who's that? What's the deal here? And, uh, I will just, I'll, I'll, I'll name a couple, right? Uh, I'll name three. Leslie May Rambo and Knuckles. Knuckles. We'll start with Knuckles. Um, was a African American gentleman, and I don't know what the story was, but he had lost his legs.
From like, basically the hips down. So he would be on a, uh, skateboard and he would take his knuckles and he would like, you know, drag himself along on the street. And he was the [00:24:00] nicest guy you would get. You'd see him on the street and he was always so smiley and you're like, knuckles, what's going on?
He's like, what's up Jones? What? You know? And he would just talk to you and you would see these people. I would see them more than I would even when Jenny and I, you know, uh, later on were dating or my family or whatever, I would see these people day in and day out. So they become a part of your life.
You're like, show up to work. Hey, where's Knuckles? Oh, he got, he got shot? Or whatever. You're like, oh, that sucks. And I remember one time Knuckles had, um, it was a robbery and, and they had stolen this skateboard. This is what he used to get around, through the ten one. And so we all got together. We pooled all of our money.
We bought him a new skateboard. So that, that's one, uh, Rambo. Rambo was really special. My, my family's restaurant was original Joe's. It's a, a Italian family restaurant in the Tenderloin. Uh, my aunt's father built it in 1937, [00:25:00] and it was just a, it was a really special place. Well, my aunt's a very special woman.
Uh, and one day she comes outta the restaurant and she tells the story a lot better, and she's stepping over this, this, uh, this guy passed out on the ground and he, she looks down at me. He looks up at her, she goes, brother, do you need help? And she's kind of a big, larger life Italian lady. He goes, yes, please.
Right. And he lifts up his hand. Well, they become best friends. And this is when I'm, I, you know, my kids younger than my kids, five or six. So I meet Rambo when I'm a little kid. Little, little, little. And they called him Rambo 'cause he was in the Vietnam War. He wore a beret, a black beret, and he always had like a uniform on.
And he had combat boots up to mid-calf shine to perfection. But he lived in the Tenderloin, you know, he smoked crack on occasion, you know, maybe he did some things, whatever, but he was fiercely loyal to the family. [00:26:00] Um, he would, he would, you know, when we'd go down there as, as kids, he'd, he'd look after my mom and walk her through the drug addicts and Right.
And so he watched me grow up. Now I'm here, I'm working in the Tenderloin. I dunno, I'm 23, 21 and I'm Rambo was there, right? And it's like this, I, it's like a dream. It's like a fever dream. I'm now working with the guy that I've known my whole life. Um, so that's another one, Rambo. And then the last one was Leslie May.
Leslie May was a, a. A known crack head in the, in the Tenderloin and the rumor mill was that she was in Playboy, or, or one of those back in like the sixties or seventies. You could tell she was a very, she was a very pretty lady, but time and, and drugs, and hard drugs had taken a toll on her. And you would see her constantly.
And all these people that kinda live down there, they like to order too. So, [00:27:00] you know when something would happen, they would kind of get to you on the side and go, Hey, it was so and so over there. Right? Because they have to live there, so they don't like this disorder. So Leslie may ended up being one of our, I, I don't wanna call her an informant, but.
You know, a concerned citizen. So she would help us out immensely. And, uh, she turned against one group of, um, bad guys, uh, one time and they found out and they took Leslie May out to Candlestick Park out where the Giants play. And I don't wanna be graphic for your listeners, but they, they put her on a cross and burned her alive.
Right? Devastating. Horrible. These are good people and we've just run into 'em all the time.
Riley: Man, you told me some of those stories just as we're sitting on the side of the jiujitsu mats, and that's part of the reason I wanted to have you guys on here, is because people don't see that side of law [00:28:00] enforcement. They don't see what a good cop does when he is developing. Building these relationships in their community. You know, we always see the crap on YouTube. That's, you know, when cops screw up and, you know, we, we get to see that for whatever reason, that kind of stuff comes through my feed way too often. And I have to very consciously like, no, I don't wanna see that. It does happen, but the majority of what happens is, is what you're talking about.
You know, you got to know the neighborhood and your heart was broken when this lady was killed. And, know, that's, I just think it's beautiful. Jen, do, do you got any experiences in that, that vein?
Jennifer: So Rich was definitely more, I mean, rich has another 10 years of experience on top of me. I mean, we have a 10 year age gap. So he joined the police force in 98. I joined in 2007. So it's Uh, just to be clear, I'm not 10 years younger than her. I just want that to be clear in case there [00:29:00] was confusion.
not even a little bit. But, um, so Rich, I will say his police, his police style was great.
He loved to go out in the public. He loved talking to people. And will say for myself, I probably could have done a better job at that. I was more speaking of order, meticulous a little more. OCD if there were calls on the board, I wanted to handle them. I Rich was very good. And to this day, he's very good about out, speaking to people, getting their story.
Like even if we go to the grocery store present day, I'll be like, let's get the items, let's get home. But Rich on the other hand will be like, oh, you know, Madeline, I see your name's Madeline tell, you know, and he all of a sudden, uh, for the lady checking us out at Albertsons and he wants to get her life story.
And I'm like, no, let's, so police work was the same. I didn't, you know, walk around and shake hands and kiss babies as much as Rich did. I was more, I've got my sector, I've got my beat. I did definitely meet characters. I was in a different district than Rich was. um, there are definitely some [00:30:00] stories.
And I, I think about one that sticks out to me as far as, there was one prostitute that I knew. I unfortunately don't recall her name. I wish I had done some, I, I could have found it out before this podcast. And just how. When you see police work, just how it affects people and how, you know, when you have this kind of underbelly, like the Tenderloin, en meshes with normal society.
And I think about this one girl, I don't recall her name. She was a young prostitute at the time. I was probably 24. She might have been 22. former pretty girl. She had bright red hair and just the streets had gotten ahold of her. It was a very known fact that she had full blown HIV untreated, blown to the point where she was getting the sores on her face. And everybody knew this girl, everybody in the Tenderloin knew her. Um, rich, I don't know if you had experience with her. Her name's escaping me and it's driving me nuts, but a very limited time, I did some, um, vice work and so they would put me on a street corner. I, it was my [00:31:00] job to solicit Johns.
They're called the people that solicit prostitutes. So I'm standing on the street corner at, I wanna say maybe. Oh gosh. It was Ellis and Hyde area, and it was noon on like a Thursday, and I'm like, who is picking up prostitutes at noon on a Thursday? But the person in charge of ice said there's a lunch crowd.
Just go with it. So I'm out there trying to flag down cars, get attention, and um, this car pulls over and it was a normal looking guy and a Chevy Tahoe. I found out later he was out of Marin County, which is a very wealthy across the Golden Gate Bridge, where back then before houses were all over a million dollars.
He definitely lived in a house over a million dollars, he had, he had picked up a homeless crack head with him. I'm like, this is a weird combo. But, so I, I walk up and the guy that he was with, what he had done was, it was a wealthy man from Marin County. He's driving around the Tenderloin. He knew what he wanted, but he didn't know how to go about it.
He didn't know who was who or where to go. So he flags down a crack head and says, I'll give you a [00:32:00] six pack of beer. You gotta help me out. Get me a prostitute, get me someone legit. he sees me and pulls up to me. But the, the, uh. Tour guide that he had picked up. The impromptu tour guide didn't know me, so he looks at me and then he sees this well known prostitute, the one with full blown HIV.
I mean, I didn't even work the Tenderloin, and I knew this poor girl had full blown HIV, and I knew she was a prostitute. So the tour guide basically goes, I don't know her, and he points at me. He goes, but I do know her and she's legit. So I say, go with her. And the guy, um, was gonna, uh, uh, had this girl get in his car and I gave the vice team the signal.
I'm like, absolutely not. You know, I, I, I cannot let this transaction go through.
[00:33:00]
Jennifer: Even though he didn't solicit me, he did commit a crime in front of me. And I also know that she's gonna give him a full-blown venereal disease. So we ended up arresting him and everything, but just, I think about, you know, a lot of the characters like that.
Rich definitely has the Rambos and the knuckles, and I saw all these people, but interactions with them were more transactional. Unfortunately, I was not, um, as much as the community police officer as Rich was, I didn't have as much time on the streets and as many characters in my district
Riley: This [00:34:00] is just outta curiosity, but WA was a consequence for her knowingly
giving people disease. Is that, how does that work?
Jennifer: How does that work? Well, when I was on patrol, uh, I took
Riley: I.
Jennifer: I got promoted off of patrol, um, in 2013. But
before that, I wanna say there it was. Uh, that one's a hard one to prove. So there were people that we knew had diseases. Um, there, there was a charge for it. I don't recall if it's a misdemeanor or a felony, but in California it's one of those things where the laws are a little bit fast and loose and good luck proving it, and you could charge them for it.
However, charging and conviction and California especially, are two very different animals. So I can give you a hundred charges on a booking card, it can get thrown out in court, and you're free the next day. So there were charges for it. My understanding is the law has since changed. Um, she ended up actually passing away shortly after she had overdosed on heroin.
So unfortunately that problem wasn't a [00:35:00] problem for much longer after that. But we charged her with solicitation. We charged him. Um, with the, the same. And basically it was, it was a money grab for the city. So in that instance, they would go to a thing called John School. So anybody charged trying to pick up prostitutes would have to pay about a thousand dollars or $1,200.
They would go to a class where they would have former prostitutes about their experience, the trafficking angle, the exploitation angle, the psychological damage angle, kind of trying to guilt these men into not doing it again,
Riley: Hmm.
Jennifer: it would get wiped from the record. So that was the consequence
for him. And I tell, I told Rich after one of the worst things about that, beyond the fact that he could have given himself a disease was hanging from his rear view mirror. They're not as big now, but like the nineties, two thousands. I dunno if you remember, if your kids would play soccer or baseball, they would have little pictures of your kid with their soccer ball or their team picture.
And then they would, he had one of those of his child hanging from his rear view mirror and he had a car seat in the back seat. So it's like you work in the [00:36:00] city, you took this time on your lunch break to do this, and you're gonna go home to your wife, your kid. You have the car seat in the back. Just so his consequence was, he pretty much probably paid about $1,200 to have it wiped from his record, his tour guide.
We let him go. And then, um, the gal, we, uh, cited her as well for solicitation, but as far as the diseases, she didn't execute the act. So she didn't get charged for that.
Riley: That is wild. That is wild. So you're around this stuff all the time, and you mentioned in there it's a money grab for the city. You see injustice on both sides, it be someone getting, you know, 1200 bucks and he's got a clean record now. Yeah. Ooh, that's a real deterrent. But on the other side, you see crap, man. You got this full blown HIV person out there spreading the disease to whoever she comes in [00:37:00] contact with. How did you guys deal with that callousness that comes from that? Just like, you know, all this work I'm doing and the courts just throw it out, or, you know, there's, there's these people who have real problems, but can I really help that, that callousness that happens? How did you, how do you deal with that?
Jennifer: I think Rich is deferring to me, so I'll jump in again. Um, he had a lot more patrol experience than I did. It was hard. It breaks your heart. One of the first times it was, um, really. Struck me was I was on field training. I was 23 years old by this time, and I, I grew up, rich said he grew up lower middle class.
I grew up middle to upper middle class. I, my, my needs were met. always was brought up with, I went to Catholic schools. I went to a private college, graduated with no student debt. I was fed, I was clothed. I got a car when I was 16. my view of the world was probably very sheltered. And so to go to a place like Skid Row at 23, and it was one [00:38:00] of those neighborhoods, my father always said, stay away.
Whatever you do, don't go into the Tenderloin. Here's the neighborhoods to avoid. And there were some concert venues in the Tenderloin. He didn't want me going there. So I would either have to sneak there or have one of my friends drive me. So now to be foot or out there at 23 years old. Patrolling the exact neighborhoods I was told to avoid by my protective father.
It was very ironic. then you see why, and of the first times that really struck me was, um, it, we had horrible rain. I remember that year, California is a big drought state, but boy, in the, uh, beginning of 2008, we were getting a lot of rain, like torrential downpours. if you see videos of the Tenderloin Skid Row or any of those neighborhoods, people are just out.
They're just out and they're just living in the elements and there's no protection from them. I remember this, one of the first things I saw that really struck me was a man wearing nothing but underwear. It's, I mean, movie rain, I call it, where it's just, it's raining so hard. You could barely [00:39:00] see the windshield wipers, can't keep up with the downpour. And he's laying on the street, huddled up in nothing but underwear trying to light his crack pipe. And I, I was, I just couldn't understand like. I didn't grow up like that. How his, what his priority isn't shelter. His priority isn't staying dry. His priority isn't going to one of the many shelters. His priority is getting that flame to light, that crack rock.
That is the only thing in the world that this man cares about. that breaks your heart. But I will say there, there are also times where when it was rainy or the temperature dropped in San Francisco, if it drops before 40, below 40, that's pretty alarming. you're like, wow. There's nobody on the streets, so there is somewhere for them to go.
So there are times where streets would be empty if the rain was bad enough or the temperature was cold enough. So then you realize too, that it is a choice. Sometimes these, these people are out here by choice. There are available options, but they don't wanna play by the rules. For a lot of the homeless shelters, there were rules.
You have a curfew you have to be in by maybe seven, you [00:40:00] have to be sober. Maybe you can't bring in your dog, maybe you can't bring in your opposite gender partner. But there were times where they didn't wanna play by the rules, and that's why you would see there out there in the elements. But to touch on what you said earlier, it does break your heart.
There's the homeless, I mean, it's a con, it's a conversation that could go on for hours, but there's so much money being funneled, funneled into the homeless problem. And every year that Rich and I were there, living there, working there, it, it just grew. It just grew exponentially like it was drawing them in for solving the issue. And I'll let Rich touch on that more.
Rich: I think I'll, I'll speak just to the callousness, um, of it, so the, the revolving door. Arrest somebody, they'd be back out. Is that what you were looking at? Ri?
Riley: Yeah, that's part of it. That's part of it. Um, generally hit on something there too, though, that realization that a lot of homelessness is a choice and some of it is incentivized by policy. Right. But, without going down too much of the [00:41:00] political track of that, just what, what in you did you do to keep yourself from getting calloused?
Rich: Um, well, that's not fair. I did become calloused. Very calloused. Um, so I am, I'm not without, you know, failure in that regard. I, I remember I had gotten to a point that I was, I was so calloused, um, no excuses, but I'd become so calloused by the whole concept of, you know, this revolving door and not recognizing them as.
Human beings. Uh, and I rem and I think I've, I've told Jenny this maybe one time. I spent a night on the street, uh, just to see what it felt like on, on Golden Gate Avenue, just to realize, you know, I'm, I, I didn't have the nicest place, but, you know, I'd go home and I'd have a, a warm house and everything, food.
And [00:42:00] these people, it is hard Scrabble life, and they're just human beings who had a mom and a dad like we do. And, uh, who presumably at some point, you know, everybody had aspirations. Maybe they didn't. I don't think you're, you know, four years old as a crack head. Um, and I, and I only use crack. You know, a lot of this is mental illness combined with, um, drug use and, and self medication and alcohol was just as big of a culprit down there as, as any other hard drug was.
So I, I'd become callous over the years. I, I think you, it's gonna come off as sounding like an excuse. I think you almost have to, because especially these big feelings, as the kids would say now that I'm having, being out of it and being away from it and not being around it constantly. Um, I think if you are that empathic, [00:43:00] uh, when you're doing the job, it'll.
Tear you apart, it will. Uh, so I think you almost have to have a level of callousness and, and don't come for me, it, I, I think you have to have this, this is work I can do only what I can do. Um, you know, there's the prayer, right? Uh, give me the strength to do the things I can do and the, the wisdom to know the difference between what I can't help and what I can.
So, uh, I think you have to be callous. Um, and that was a tough dichotomy for me to have, you know, the, the Rich Jones who wants to talk to everybody, and I do, uh, especially now. And then to have this boy that sucks. They died next. Right? Because it was just a Monday at noon, right? Or for Jenny, was that Tuesday with the guy at noon, uh, on his lunch break?
We're onto the next one. Onto the next one. It's Thanksgiving, it's Christmas. No, it's just another day. In, [00:44:00] uh, a world of complete despair and death.
Riley: Yeah. And I, I think, 'cause I, I, gonna, you're gonna get some of that right where you, in order to go to the next day. I mean, you're gonna have another problem tomorrow. So I do hear you on that, that there's, I don't know how you'd avoid that completely at the same time. I heard you get teared up earlier with. The gal who was killed. And I, I can tell you, love some of these people, right? There's the, that there's that part too. And that never went away. I, I mean, just talking to you, I can tell that that never went away. So maybe you do get calloused to an extent, but it's not all the way. I, Jenny, I'm gonna pick on you again here.
Rich: I.
Riley: You had,
Jennifer: you you had an experience where you got hurt on the job. You, you were
on the job, you were a, a man attacked you
a, a and I,
you forgive me for not remembering the details of the story. I could you fill in there. I, but I, I wanna, [00:45:00] I, I wanna talk to you guys about how talk to you
guys about what happened, how that affected you and how that affected you, rich.
Riley: 'cause you were, you, you were on the other end of the call when that, that came through. So
Jennifer: that Go ahead Jen.
Sure. Yeah, I recall I was, um, 26 years old at the time. It was 2010. And what really, I'll give you the whole picture, but one of the things that really hurt the most about that incident is. The administrative angle of the whole thing. And what I mean by that is there was a, a festival going on in our district that day and it was an officer safety issue was created because for whatever reason, the city back in 2010, I mean now it seems like the city San Francisco's just printing money and that is a money printing machine, whether it be homelessness overtime. But at the time they were very stingy on overtime. And so, um, the admins at the lieutenants and captains at the station decided, we'll just detail, which means you come to work like a regular day, but you're not doing [00:46:00] patrol duty. You're sent out and shipped off elsewhere. So they had detailed pretty much everybody on my shift to this festival. And from, I wanna say 2:00 PM to about 4:00 PM I was one of the only officers on duty and I was a solo unit. And at the time we had a sheriff who was just dead set on foot beats. I mean, this is where the politics of anything comes into play. And so this one sheriff, um, wanted foot beats. And so if you had a foot beat, you weren't allowed a car.
Thank God the foot beat that day grabbed a car surreptitiously because that comes into play later. And so it was one of those things where I knew going in, you know, I'm upset with the admin, Hey, this is political, this is BS you're sending. Me out there by myself in a patrol car by myself to handle a big district with no backup.
Everybody at the festival's on foot, they can't come to help me. swing shift comes on at about four o'clock, and so from about two o'clock to four o'clock, maybe four 30 after swing shift gets their coffee. I'm pretty much by myself, [00:47:00] so I, I decided, okay, I am by myself. I'm 26. I don't have, you know, a ton of experience.
I'd been on patrol about two and a half years at this point. I'm not gonna be a hero. I'll just look at my, the MDT is a little computer in the patrol car, and of course there's 10 runs hanging. There's a lot going on. Because we were so short staffed that day. I was like, I'm not gonna be hero. C priority call.
It's at an old folks' home. It's been hanging for about three hours. It says there's a guy who won't leave. Well. My guess is, you know, he's probably gone by now. I'll show up, I'll get to clear it, and then I'll just start clearing the low priority runs till swing shift gets on. I have till nine o'clock tonight.
I gotta play it safe. So I show up to this old folks' home and sure enough, this poor old gentleman, he was the cutest thing. He's like in his eighties, new sitting in the lobby. He'd been sitting there all three hours waiting for someone to show up. So I was like, okay, he's here. We're gonna take this seriously.
And he goes, yeah, this guy, um, this is a elderly, you know, residential home. He must be a cousin or something. He lives here. He scares everybody. [00:48:00] We tell him to leave. He won't leave. I'm like, okay, do we know if he's still here? He goes, I don't know. He was sleeping on a couch upstairs. No problem. I let dispatch know and I should have known there's all these indicators.
I'm sure you sent some in jiujitsu, micro certain things where you can predict your opponent's next move. And I was way too arrogant, callous, and experienced. soon as I show up upstairs, he hops off the couch almost in a cartoon fashion. like, oh, okay. Um, hey, you're not supposed to be here.
And right away we're just on a bad foot. He walks by and shoulder checks me again, arrogance and lack of experience right there. It's on, you're under arrest, but I don't put it out on the air. I think maybe I could just grab him, cuff him up, and then put it out on the air so that I don't panic anyone.
'cause literally nobody's coming. We shared a radio channel with one or two other districts, but in my district alone, there's nobody to come. So I get him outside and just, he and I had tussled before when I was on probation in the Bayview District. [00:49:00] He and I had come across each other. And I had a lovely, uh, purple belt and Jiujitsu partner at the time. And when we went into he, this guy was a fighter. Um, there were definitely mental health issues on board. Uh, he was big. He was probably 11, 2 30, big angry, and he wanted to fight. I don't remember what the initial call was, the first time I'd interacted with him, but we got him in custody and it was awful.
Uh, but I had help, I had backup. It was great. And again, my partner, uh, had earned a purple belt, so we were very confident. He remembered me. I don't remember him. I had dealt with thousands of people from the two years since I dealt with him. He'd probably only dealt with a handful of cops, and I probably stood out. maiden name is Hennessy. So people always remember that You don't see that last name very often. So when we're outside, after he shoulder checked me, he goes, Hennessy, I remember you. I'm like, well, I don't remember you, but here's the deal. You're under arrest. You don't get to shoulder check a cop. just at that point, I will say, um, I was fortunate in the sense that [00:50:00] he wanted to flee, he wanted to leave.
I wanted to prevent him from leaving 'cause he was under arrest. And the difference is some people wanna fight. Some people wanna flee, some do both. He wanted to flee. I was in the way of that. So the fight was on. He, um, punched me in the face. He picked me up at the time I. I was more of a cardio bunny. I didn't do a lot of lifting, which was a detriment.
And I will say any females listening, I wish I had done juujitsu. That's one of my biggest regrets from my time in patrol. I wish I had done juujitsu because inevitably all fights end up on the floor. he, at the time, I was very thin 'cause I just, I was one of those people that would get on the elliptical for hours.
I weighed less than I should have. He picked me up, he spiked me like a football. I was able to get to my radio. All I could put out was my call sign. I needed help. again, nobody's coming. We had a couple plain clothes guys that were getting on shift and the foot beat. And so I, I was so heavily concussed.
He had punched me so hard, split my eyebrow open, I blood dripping down my face. And I remember sitting there, I mean, I thought [00:51:00] of myself like a Looney, like a Looney Tunes cartoon with the little birds around my head. I was so concussed from the punch and from the throw that of any cop knows who doesn't have an external vest, your gear just explode like a pinata.
So my radio went flying. My cuffs are flying. My batons rolling down the street. Just I, like a pinata exploded. was so dazed and at that moment I'm like, I could either sit here and wait for help can't even think straight right now. Or I could chase him. And he, as he's running away, he looked at me and started laughing.
I'm like, okay, well you just made the decision for me. So I start chasing him. But because I was so concussed, I can't even run in a straight line. I'm zigzagging down the street. um, thankfully the foot beat heard they had taken a car and they were able to pin him against a wall. They almost hit him and grabbed him.
And it was one of those moments where soon as he saw the, it was the guy, a big corn fed guy, Scott, he was wonderful. He gets outta the patrol car. He's six foot, two 50, big old guy. As soon as he sees Scott, he gets down on his knees, hands behind the head. [00:52:00] I remember Scott later telling me, he goes, I wish, you know, maybe I had. a little rougher with him, but I will say it's a good thing he wasn't, because there was someone on their balcony on the third floor that saw the entire thing unfold. And when this went to court, she actually waited all day at the Hall of Justice to testify on our behalf. So she felt horrible for what she saw, and because we took him into custody with so much dignity, she was our ally and went to court on that one.
But I will say, not to steal your thunder, Riley, very next day. So I had gotten concussed, I had stitches. I couldn't even remember when the medics asked for my name and age. I was like, I have no idea. What do you think? Like I, I'd never had a concussion before. I didn't play combat sports. Um, so it was a first for me, it was shocking.
The very next day in true San Francisco fashion, the district attorney called me and said, Hey, I heard what happened. Are you interested in dismissing the case? I said, absolutely not. What? How's that even a consideration? She goes, well, some people believe in forgiveness. I said, yeah, as of right [00:53:00] now, I'm not one of 'em.
I had a black eye. I had six stitches in my eyebrow. Rich wouldn't even be seen in public with me. He goes, Hey, based off the optics, you and I can't go in public until that black eye heals. So that was time away from him. It was awful. But, uh, it was shocking. know, the, this, the assault is its own story, but then the justice system afterwards, or lack thereof, was its own surprise as well.
Riley: That's, that's a real thing. And it drives me crazy when I hear those kind of stories. rich, what was, if I remember right when you told me this story, when you guys first talked to me about it, you were on the other end of the radio, weren't you?
Rich: Yeah, I was working at. And the boss is gonna have to check me on a couple things. I think I was plain clothes. Is that right babe?
Jennifer: At Bayview at the time.
Rich: So there you go. Uh, I clear on the other side of the city. She had gotten, um, Molly swamped [00:54:00] up in like on post or something up in the northern, and I was clear down southeast corner of the city. I'd been promoted I guess by that time. Um, and I was a, a, a patrol sergeant at the time out in, in the Bayview district.
And I don't know how it came about that I found out that she'd gotten beat up, but here I come. Nobody knew we were dating, I don't think at the time. You know, we are real quiet about everything. We're kind of private people, um, in general. So I come tearing clear across the city and I get to her at, at the hospital, and it, I, I just want to say for, for the record, I had gotten beat up a lot at work.
I mean a lot. And nobody ever showed up. Nobody was cooing over me. Nobody was. Are you okay? I get to the hospital and it looks like the president's been shot, she's got armed security. There's a, are you okay man? Right. I think the chief of police called, call me a liar. I think the [00:55:00] chief of police called her and I'm like, I have been beat up more times than I care to mention, and they're barely throwing a bandaid at me.
But her highness gets one whoop on the side of the eye and look now, now it's, now it's a federal offense. So I get into the hospital. I joke, of course. And, uh, and they're all standing around. And I remember there was a kind of an older sergeant he had, I knew him for a long time. And, and he's like, Hey, what's up Rich?
Uh, hey, what's up? What are you doing here? Oh, uh, uh, just checking on the injured officer. Uh, uh, sir Chip, you know, she's hurt. Oh, okay. Yeah, she, she's fine. You know, and, and she's got, like, she got Molly Wam pretty good. Uh, like, I think she, um, she underplays it, but he was a, he was a gorilla and he was a good fight.
You know, he's a known bad guy and he's a good fight even for like big kids, right? Uh, knuckle dragers and here she was, and she was a, a [00:56:00] smaller human and just her upside the eye. So I look at her eye, I go four stitches, right? And still this cocky, arrogant, right? Because I had gotten stitches and I love medicine.
The doctor comes in, he goes. Uh, maybe about four stitches. And I'm like, ha ha, I told you. Right. And, uh, truthfully, you know, my heart's going out, right? This the girl I'm dating, um, the anger, you know, it's like, it's, it's a tough one. Dating or being married to a another cop, right? There's a real fine line Jenny for all of her.
You know, she, she underplays herself. She's a tough chick. Um, so ultimately I'm like, I'm proud. Like she had gotten up on and worn it and, you know, went out and chased the bad guy. Um, and then there's a part of me, obviously, you know, here's my [00:57:00] girlfriend. She's, she's leaking all over the place and a pretty face and still very pretty just now with stitches.
And, um, it, it was a, it was a tough thing to deal with and, and through our careers together, and we ended up working together. Uh, maybe two or three times and she'll, she'll tell you about those times. Um, it, it's tough to work with your spouse or your girlfriend. A a a few people have done it over the years.
I, I can't take the power away from her. If I am this imposing, don't talk to my girlfriend or, how dare you. It takes all of her power away, right? Uh, she can no longer then deal with bad guys on the street. So, uh, while my heart is exploding, I want to destroy this guy. I'm like, she's a, she's a San Francisco cop.
You know, she's on her own. You cannot like overstep, um, what it is. So mixed emotions. We, we, we talk about it, uh, you know, [00:58:00] jokingly today. It was just, it was another one of those. I'm glad we did it. I'm glad we did it at the time. I'm so happy we're not doing it anymore.
Riley: Yeah. Well you guys had, well, it sounds like you had a much longer career, rich, but keeps throwing those, those old jokes out there for fun. I don't know. That's what you get for teasing her about lip gloss, but Right, Jen? Yeah.
Jennifer: Yes, But what's, um, what are you guys up to now? So you've, you're no longer in San Francisco at the time of this recording. We're Boise, Idaho, or Meridian Idaho? Not sure which city you guys live in, but in the area, what's happening now?
Rich: Um, what are we doing now?
Uh, that's a, that's a loaded question, man. We didn't talk about religion or, or anything. We are, we're living our lives, uh, for the first time. We have two boys. Um, a hunter is [00:59:00] now 11 and Gunner is 12. I'm sorry. Gunner is nine. Hunter's 11, gunner's nine. Um, when, when we, when we had to leave the police department, Jenny had gotten.
Her knee blown up. Uh, and she ended up having a, a pretty nasty surgery. Um, I ended up having, um, 15 surgeries from work. Um, and the one that that ended up taking me out was my, uh, my back, my low back, uh, I have no disc left, so I did, uh, three shoulders, three knees, elbows, neck, and my back was the one that kind of blew it up altogether.
And I have no disc left in between L five and S one, so I'm bone on bone. So we were gonna leave, uh, if we couldn't stay and be police officers down there. And we were living at the time, we were living in, uh, a town called Pacific. It's right on the Pacific Ocean. Beautiful. Um, we had built a beautiful house together.
We had just had kids and, um, it [01:00:00] was expensive and it was, even though we were, were getting paid, well finally by, as, as cops, if we weren't gonna be cops. It, it was financially. Impossible to, to remain down there. And, uh, we didn't get into it, but my bubble was San Francisco. Like from the time my grandparents immigrated from Ireland, no human in my family had ever moved more than a couple miles away from each other.
So we knew it was gonna be a few years of, um, going to court and, and, and fighting, uh, the workers' comp and the city. In order to get our, our retirement, um, you have to get lawyers and it doesn't matter how much time you put in, it was gonna be a long time. So I had to, when I was in, just gotten outta back surgery, um, we, we were gonna come up and, and we, we needed a place to, to live and, and recoup.
And so, um, I [01:01:00] went to real estate school. Actually, we both went to real estate school, right babe? And we, um, both graduated and I didn't know anything about it. Um. And we were kinda eyes wide open and just whatever your plan is, God. Um, and I ended up falling into a place called Keller Williams Realty down here in Boise, and they were unbelievable humans, uh, gave us a new lease on life.
So I started doing real estate. Um, and that's what I do to this day. And what our primary job is, is, uh, we're just focused on, uh, being happy. Um, Jenny's parents are up here now and, um, you know, they're, they're older, so we're, we, we try to help out with, with them. They live about a quarter mile away from us, so we try to get the kids to see 'em all the time.
Um. We landed in Jiujitsu with Team Rhino. Uh, my kids are, uh, seem to be doing very well there, our kids, and that's it. [01:02:00] We're just kind of, um, starting to enjoy. We realized how short life is right, and a lot of our friends have, uh, especially recently, it just been passing away stress and self-medication, suicide, and we've lost quite a few.
So you realize how short the window is. So we're just up here trying to live. I.
Jennifer: If I can weigh in as well,
Riley: Please do.
Jennifer: seconding what Rich said.
[01:03:00]
Jennifer: I'm not trying to give a sob story because everybody out there is working and grinding and doing their best to get by, so our situation's not unique at all. But Rich and I realized, and I, again, I'm sure many people can relate and we're not special for this, but we were functioning constantly at a hypervigilant level.
10. Just I remember in my 16 year career, I was probably on call for eight and a half of those years, meaning my phone was always on next to my bed. it rang, anytime I got a text I had to hop too, because I'm on call, whether it be at Special Victims Unit, internal [01:04:00] Affairs, or um, at the end of my career, I'd just made Lieutenant and there were times where I was the acting captain and calls would come in all the time and. and a half years, never using silence notifications, never being able to have my phone on vibrate. It just, we were programmed to constantly just receive information and deal with it and on a dime and rich and I realized moving here, our nervous system was pretty much fried. We're always looking for threats.
Like just going out with our children in San Francisco. I'll never forget, hunter went to a birthday party when he was five and it was this place on Ocean Ave, not a bad neighborhood, kind of residential, kind of mixed business, um, safe neighborhood. And there was a homeless guy there and his sleeping bag was open and he was completely nude from the waist down.
And my five-year-old son at the time is like, mom, what's going on? Why? Why is he naked? You're not allowed to be naked in public. And now he and I are having a talk about, well, some people's brains are different. Some people have issues, some, you know, and he just. haven't had to have those talks here, which is [01:05:00] amazing.
Just all these talks, all these, the way people drove, rich and I were always in a level of stress living in the Bay Area, making good money on paper. But our outpouring of expenses was so high that we were just always stressed out and never really enjoying ourselves. We lived to work, we didn't work, um, to live.
And I look back at photos of my kids from their first few years and I'm like, I barely remember them being this size. I was always on call. I was always going out on overtime. I was always working long cases. And again, that's not unique. I'm sure a lot of parents feel this way. A lot of two parent income households, exact same thing, but we were always just in such a state of stress.
And Rich was on call. He was a sniper. Um, I was a hostage negotiator, so there were times where both of our phones would be ringing at the same time and we're like, okay, well we have a two and a 4-year-old at home. Is it an active shooter or is it the guy in mental distress? And rich and I would literally have to ro [01:06:00] shambo.
Okay, you go, I go, and then we came up with a system. If it's after, I think it was after 4:00 AM I, if it was like 4:00 AM to 4:00 PM I'd go 4:00 PM to 4:00 AM he'd go, because I, we were like a business relationship for a long time there. I worked the 6:00 AM to 4:00 PM shift. So going in at 4:00 AM it's not that big of a deal.
I would just roll into my day. it, we were like that for so long. One of my favorite things that I did once we moved here to Idaho and got to focus on being parents and got to focus on living and enjoying life, I taught Rich how to put on, uh, silence mode or, um, at night. So Rich and I, from like 1130 at night to 7:00 AM. silence mode on our phones and the only people that could break through are my parents because they're elderly and they're having some health issues and rich in case Rich is hunting or away. We never did that the whole time. We were police officers. That is just a luxury we weren't afforded. So when you ask what we're doing today, it's like we're so excited. I now look at pictures of my kids [01:07:00] and I'm present. I'm there. I look back it I, I mean, it would make me tear up thinking of all the photos I look at of my kids in their younger days. Like, oh, I remember that weekend Rich got called out to something. I was by myself. I had just gotten off work at 4:00 AM and I was snapping at the kids all day, but I took them to the zoo and I was miserable. And I look at those photos, I'm like, they'll never be that size again. They were just little kids who were just happy to be at the zoo. And I was in such a horrible mood. I was in such a bad place. I had to go back to work later that night. And we're very blessed and very fortunate that things worked out the way they did.
Where now we're. Not hypervigilant, we're not driving defensively all the time. I don't have to explain public nudity to my children or why that guy's screaming at the pigeons. It, it's, we're in such a better place now.
Riley: If you, uh, to the boys that Rich stole my parking spot at Team Rhino, though, that's, that's what I wanna know.
Jennifer: It comes up if we see, uh, if we see any of your vehicles there. I'm like, fair is fair. And I always tell Rich, he could fight you [01:08:00] for it. I don't think he wants to
Riley: Oh my gosh, I love it so much. So much. Okay. If, uh, you could do it again, would you do anything different
Jennifer: if you're talk, are you talking about like CareerWise, like going back to being a , you've mentioned
Riley: you've mentioned a lot of plus sides to the career, but you've mentioned some downsides too. So that's, that's where that question comes, is,
Jennifer: that
Riley: would you do it different?
Jennifer: would you do it different?
Yes. Uh, to answer your question, um, I absolutely would. Obviously, had I gone to dental school, I probably would've bankrupted my parents and I never would've met Rich. And I think. It was funny. I remember one of my promotional exams, we were talking about suicide prevention and at the time, dentists had the highest rate of suicide, but so did cops, so either way I was going to go into a field where you had to be on guard.
So am, I would definitely, we are who we are today because of the path we took, and so I would definitely do it again, however. At 23, I [01:09:00] would've done a lot of things differently. I'd like to think if you're the same person, now that you are at 23, you failed to evolve, you failed to
Riley: Mm-hmm.
Jennifer: probably not a good thing.
So I look at 23-year-old
me and the way I spoke to people, being a girl, being a smaller girl, I looked young. Um, I was getting called a rookie even up until the point where I made sergeant. People still thought the, the, when I'd go on ride-alongs, uh, they thought I, the recruit I was with, you know, was my boss because I looked so young.
And so I made the mistake a lot of puffing my chest out, being a little too verbal. Saying a lot of stupid stuff and maybe I was writing checks that my butt couldn't cash and so shame on me. I also made the mistake of underestimating people, you know, from juujitsu five foot, 540 pound guy may be just as much of a threat as the 240 pound six foot guy.
I was too stupid to know that. So I learned that the hard way a couple times. Um, I definitely have been more community policing oriented, gotten to know people, taken my [01:10:00] time, slowed down, been a little less of a machine and a little less, you know, just the facts, ma'am. Just the facts, sir. And heard people's stories.
So San Francisco's such a rich place like that. I definitely could have done that better. Um, I definitely wish I'd slowed down and spent more time on patrol like Rich. He has wonderful stories. He probably touched a lot of lives. I know if it was a mistake, but I chose the course of fast promotion.
I made Sergeant in about five and a half years. I made Lieutenant. In 13 years, I probably should have slowed down and just done what I signed up to do, which is be a police officer, handle the community. I said it earlier and I'll say it again, it's a huge regret that I didn't do juujitsu. I mean, at the time I was five foot six for most of my patrol career.
I was about vacillating between a hundred twenty five, a hundred forty pounds. And what a shame. Um, what a shame that didn't know how to take on opponents the way that people who do juujitsu do. And it's always been a regret of mine. And now with my knee injury, I [01:11:00] think a good knee lock would take me out.
So it's not. An avenue I could go down, but anyone, I would highly, highly encourage anybody who's in the field wants to join the field, definitely get into Juujitsu. I, there were so many fights that could have been handled better, or maybe less force could have been used if I was better at control holds or predicting the next move. So I'll pass it to Rich.
Rich: Um, as we were getting ready for this, and, and I'll speak for Jenny, which I never do 'cause I usually get into trouble. Um, I will say that we're very honored. We don't, we're just two yahoos to be, well, to be part of the culture here, to be part of the, the neighborhoods here to be part of everything. And, you know, I don't to be on your podcast on this, this business, um, adventure that you have going has been, we love doing it.
And, uh, we, I listened to all the ones previous to this and [01:12:00] Mr. Kang was on and with the go Earn your salt. Um, and I, I listen to all your, your guys and there's so many interesting stories. Uh, and I'll get to, if I would change anything, you know, this is, this is the game now. I, I go around and I just wanna listen to Riley Rogers story and I wanna listen to Mr.
Kang and, and the guy that was out. Slinging stuff that, you know, the premium package and all of that. Um, there, there's, there's, I would not change a thing, not one thing, because without it, in my opinion, I'm not here today. Right? If you were to hit me five years ago and go, Hey, rich Jones, where do you think you're gonna be in five years?
Where are you gonna be in 10 years? There's no, there's no way that I'm sitting in an office in Meridian, Idaho doing real estate, talking to Riley Rogers on the go earn your SALT podcast. I'm not married to my wife. I'm not, you know, I don't have the [01:13:00] beautiful kids that I got. Um, in my opinion, everything that's happened has happened for a reason.
Good, bad, or indifferent. Um, and I would not trade it for the world. You know, I'm, I'm busted. We're both very physically busted. Um, I think I'm more mentally busted than the boss is, and that is, you know, I think that has also, uh, been beneficial to me, um, in slowing down. Jenny brings up a, a real good point about the kids, and I know I'm all over the place, but I wanna tell one quick story, and it's one that haunts me to this day.
So it's, I don't, you know, it's a, a Saturday and Jenny goes, Hey, the kids are driving me bonkers. Can you get 'em outta the house? Yeah, of course. Let's, uh, let's go to a museum. Jenny knows this story, and so I have like my Mickey t-shirt on. I'm in full. I think I even told you this story. I'm in full dad mode.
Sketchers, like, I'm not the hips guy. Like, I just, I'm [01:14:00] really enjoying being a dad as much as I can down there. We're gonna go. To a place called the Steinhardt Aquarium. Big, huge museum. And it's fun and ready. As we're getting there, the cell phone rings yellow. Hey, Sarge. Uh, we got one. You know, it doesn't look good.
We don't. No, no, no, no. Listen, the boss is at home. She's not happy. I, I'm not coming in. Hey Sarge, you know, uh, there's nobody, okay, fine. So I called Jenny and she's not happy. I go, babe, I gotta go in. It sounds, you know, it'll only take a couple of hours. Let me just drop the kids off to you. Right. And I'll, I'll come back and I'll get 'em outta your hair again.
Right. We've all, you know, been frustrated with our kids. So I get home, I drop off the kids, and Hunter, you know, he's old enough at the time, he's starting to hand me all my gear out of the, the garage and off I go wearing my Mickey t-shirt, my Sketchers and Jenny is livid, right? Because it was supposed to be the Saturday or Sunday off.
And, [01:15:00] uh, off I go. So I go into the city, very affluent area called, uh, St. Francis Woods, big fancy houses, and I'll, I'll save the gore for another time. But long story short, a guy had, um, um, killed his wife in the middle of the night. So he'd been going in through the, the whole night and he had, he had mutilated her, um, you know, in through, over the course of say, eight hours.
So I get there, unbeknownst to me, and you know, we're trying to set up, I have a couple of my guys there. And we're, we're getting ready for, you know what, whatever's gonna come. And the door comes out and he's just covered in blood, head to toe. And, you know, we do all the things that, uh, to get him into custody.
And it's, it's, you know, ev, everybody we talked about earlier, everybody wants to PPO the cops. You know, hindsight's 2020 and looking at it through rose colored lenses is real easy. But when you're in the middle of it and this guy's going, kill me, [01:16:00] kill me. Right? There's a lot to deal with there. So we, we end up taking him into custody and it's, it's not pretty, but it's, it, it is what it is.
And going to the house, and I find the mutilated body of his wife, it's graphic. It's, it's the worst thing you could imagine a human would do to another human being. And as I come out, I'm kind of, I'm, I'm floored. I'm, I'm really shattered with this. And I realized I'm in my milky T-shirt. And my kids are at home.
My wife's upset with me. Like, what the bleep am I doing? And it was only because of those instances, and we have thousands between Jenny and I, uh, like she said, she was a negotiator. And, um, I was blessed to be on the team for a long time. You know, it was only because of these horrible things. These, the injuries, the head injuries.
And I, I blame a lot of my emotions on, I've had [01:17:00] way too many concussions, um, that I'm the man I am today, right? I'm a better father. I'm a much better husband. I'm a much better believer only because of the nastiness we went through. So, to answer your question, I don't know that I would change anything, and that might sound bizarre.
But, um, without that hindsight, without that knowledge. None of this is nearly as sweet as it is, and now it's, you'd be hard pressed to get me in a bad mood, right? We live in a beautiful place. I got great friends. My kids are at Jits. My wife's happy on occasion. She takes a nap on the couch. She looks like a a, a cat sunning herself.
Um, God is great man. That's it.
Riley: Man, I, I hear you. I think back through, through life, those really hard times, if you learn the lessons from them, be the most valuable stuff. And like I, [01:18:00] I can tell you there's a lot of those in my life I wouldn't change either. So I hear you. Um, can we take a few minutes, do some lighter questions? All right.
You go to a restaurant, you order a hamburger, it comes out with the veggies below the patty. Acceptable or not, I,
Rich: Jenny's a vegetarian. She's gonna have to answer this question
and, and, uh, uh,
Jennifer: uh,
Rich: mesh herself in the embarrassment that she refuses to eat this good beef that we have in Idaho. Go ahead, boss.
Jennifer: Poultry and what I would do is flip the burger to get the orientation correctly. I think it is unacceptable, but I think it's a solvable issue. You're shaking your head
Rich: Yeah, I disagree wholeheartedly. If it's coming, it's like, what are we doing? What? How have we strayed so far as a country that the vegetables are underneath? So I would fix it myself. She's saying she would flip it over. I would take the [01:19:00] vegetables, put 'em on top on being in the service industry for as long as we were.
I wouldn't send it back.
Riley: I.
uh, I get laughing. So just the other day, I, I went, had a burger at a place and they had onions on top of the patty, but the, the lettuce and tomato below, I was confused. I was like, that could have been a perpetual motion machine for Jan. Do you flip it? Do you not? Does it just flip it?
I mean, how,
what happens there?
Jennifer: What happens, the path of least resistance. You
gotta, the onions are cleaner. You just gotta move. The onions,
Riley: they were, they were melted into the cheese.
See, that was the problem.
Jennifer: See, that was the problem.
You just gotta be unhappy. Then I wouldn't send it back.
Riley: Well,
Rich: I think you've gotta admire yourself.
Riley: I was, the entire time I'm meeting him, like
Rich: I.
Riley: I don't, I don't understand. Okay. Scariest moment of your life. You guys have both talked about some pretty, scary stuff already, but scariest moment.
[01:20:00]
Rich: I'll go first. Getting married, scariest, scariest moment of my life. I'm like, I see her, she's at the end of the church. Gorgeous. The hair, the dress, right? And it's, it's this big, it's this big church. I don't know how many people are there. [01:21:00] 200. And I'm like this, there's no way this is happening. Right? And I'm manic and Jen hates it when I get into like my super manic phase and I'm like, I, I'm crying at the altar.
I'm an emotional guy. That was the scariest moment in my life was getting married. 'cause I'm like, there's no way this is true. This is gonna fall through. Right. As far as scariest cop stuff, you know, they're interesting in cocktail parties. Um, they're not as interesting to cops in, in my opinion. Um, there's been a lot of them.
Gosh, blessed it, there's been a lot of 'em. Um, but you know, they're just, they're just the day to day Right. Lot of times I didn't think I was gonna come home. Uh, the Floyd riots really hit home. Um, I think about a time we're on Mission Police Station and we're [01:22:00] the, the, the crowd is assaulting Mission Police Station and.
Uh, my spotter and I, who's also another sniper up top on this roof, and we're like, this one may be a little, a little hairy. And earlier in the night they had been tossing molotovs at us and they were exploding down the street. Um, you know, there was hundreds if not more of those. Super scary. I don't know if I'm gonna live or die moments, but for me, my most scary moment in my life so far was getting married to that girl that's in the office, just down the hallway.
Jennifer: All second, what Rich said, you know, as police officers, there were a lot of moments. I've been at an active shooter, not inside the building. I was outside. I had been shot at inadvertently. I don't know if I was the target, but there were a bunch of us all getting shot at when I was on probation. it's one of those things where it happens so quick in the moment.
You don't get to be scared. You have to react. You're trained to react and it's sometimes you step [01:23:00] away or you get home, you get to the station, you're like, that was a bad one. But it's a prolonged drawn out thing, you don't really have time to be scared. So actually wasn't on duty. It was ritual.
Know this one, we've, we are trained in first aid. Rich is trained as an EMT. I've, I've never had any successful CPR saves. Rich has, anytime I've done CPR on someone, it, they were done. Especially once Fentanyl came out, they were really done. Um, but it's one of those things that I'm sure other people can attest to this, when it's your own kids, it hits differently. And I panicked. So, our eldest son, hunter, was probably three and a half. Our youngest son Gunner was about one and a half. And we had just sat them down and Gunner, I sliced apples for him in little tiny cubes because he's about a year and a half old Hunter. I had sliced quarters, like long Well, because Gunner's the little tank that he is, he had killed his, he'd finished his, he'd walked [01:24:00] around the table and he had bit one of hunter's apple slices in half perfect size for it to lodge right in the middle of his throat. I look at him and he, he looked like a little bird trying to fly.
He's moving his arms and his face is turning blue and. I'm trained in first. You know, I've done all, all the same things Rich has done pretty much when it comes to First Aid and helping people. Yet I start screaming for Rich to come out and help me we're trained in the Heimlich for babies. Um, you flip 'em over, I mean, he is about a year and a half, but he's still only about 20 something pounds.
You're supposed to put him on your arm and hit him on the back. I know this, I've been trained every two years in this since 2007, yet I com it was my kid and it was different. So of course I start screaming for Rich. Rich came out and it took two or three good hits and they always say, when it's your own kid, you, the first hits kind of a hesitation. So Rich after a couple finally got the apple slice lodged out. It's covered in froth and blood and he has all this bloody mucus coming out and just [01:25:00] was hands down the scariest moment of my life because we can call an ambulance. Two minutes is too long. It probably takes six to 10 minutes because of where we lived.
So it was on us and it was ours to deal with. And will say every two years we did what's called AO Advanced Officer, where you go over new laws, you go over grappling techniques, um, you go over first aids, you could get recertified. And I used to kind of joke around and laugh and not take it seriously.
I took it very seriously after that. Um, because, and I even went up to one of the instructors and a San Francisco cop would know Ben Dorsey. He was amazing. And I said, what you taught us saved our child's life. Thank you. So hands down the scariest moment in my life
Riley: Tell me this, what is a book you would recommend everyone read?
Rich: I'm illiterate, so it, it doesn't really matter unless it's, uh, un unless, unless it's on audio. Um, you know, I, I have a whole bookshelf of books that I haven't read. Um, [01:26:00] I, I'd say, uh, anything by Chaco, uh, you know, is, is probably a good start. If you don't know who Jocko is, I know you do. Jocko Willink, um. Any of his books are phenomenal.
He writes a great line of kids books, um, that talk about jiujitsu and kind of, uh, life things. So I would hang my hat on him. I know that sounds really uneducated. I'll let the educated one tell me. Go ahead.
Jennifer: I don't have anything to Trump what you said. It's, mine's a little more pop Culturey. Um. I, if you're familiar with Mel Robbins, I just finished let them, um, I'm not sure Ri if you've heard of
Riley: I, I know exactly what you're talking about. In fact, my wife just read that book.
Jennifer: I hope it helped her or gave her some clarity.
Riley: Yeah. She really talked highly of that.
Jennifer: really,
Riley: Uh, just that
Jennifer: yeah,
Riley: you guys probably ran into that a lot in your worlds.
Jennifer: about a lot, your words. Well, that's what it is. Um, because I've, I'm struggling with, I've learned as I got older, [01:27:00] especially, you know, I went up the ranks and not everybody liked working for me, liked working with me, liked working around me, and I spent far too much time concerned with other people's thoughts.
And if you try to make everyone happy, you make nobody
happy. Yeah.
You have to have lines in the sand. You have to be able to make executive
decisions. you have to be comfortable not being liked. And I wish 20 something year old me had, and I'm 40 now, but I wish 20 something year old me had read, let them.
And some friendships are not meant to last. Some partnerships, um, some relationships and a big thing that let them taught me was you can't want something more than the other person. We ran into addiction a lot. We ran into just like the homeless guy who's only concerned was smoking crack, not his, his own basic survival instincts.
And you cannot want better for people more than they want it themselves, and you can't do the work for them. So let them is actually help me a lot.
Riley: , What's next? Where are you going from here?
Jennifer: . Um, right now, I mean, thankfully I'm financially stable. We're [01:28:00] happy and I have parents that are having some medical issues, so I'm tending to them, but. It's hard. I spent so much of my life identifying
with achievement and um, I think it's even something in psychology called achievement esteem, where you only feel as worthy as what you've accomplished last, and it's not a bad thing, but I spent a lot of time being wrapped up in that and I burned the candle at both ends for a very long time.
Again, I'm not saying I'm special. I know a lot of people in the workforce have the same story. rich knows what a toll it took on our family. When I would study for promotionals, when I would go out on call outs when I was at work all the time, I would be so fried that after some of my shifts, I'd come home and take a nap.
I wouldn't exercise, I wouldn't clean. Just unfortunately the way I process stress, I internalized it and it wore my body down. So now enjoying kind of taking a pause. Uh, I have nothing amazing as far as career to report, but I'm enjoying being a mom that when I look at pictures of my kids. I don't think about what a bad mental [01:29:00] place I was in, or they were that small.
I could pick up both kids in both arms. I can't, I, I don't even remember a time where I was able to do that. So I'm enjoying being a better wife, a better daughter, a better mom. Um, I've, I've, God's always been a part of my life, but I know it's probably late in the game, but earlier you talked about callousness and you almost, it was very hard to be a cop in San Francisco and keep your faith because you look at certain situations and go, how can this exist?
How can this person be so ignored by everybody? There's no way. Or how could someone give birth in a porta-potty and leave their, the baby in the porta-potty to die? Like you just, hard to turn to God when you see the worst things in society. So. I wouldn't say I've left out God, but I had tuned him out.
I turned the volume down. So since moving to Idaho, we turned the volume way up and just re rediscovering faith and meeting nice people and not being in a constant [01:30:00] state of hyper vigilance has been worth the entire journey. Even at the expense of my knee and all the mental health stuff Rich and I went through with the job. It's definitely been worth it.
Riley: Oh, well said. How about you, rich? What's next?
Rich: Uh, I'll echo a lot of what the boss said, which is usually my go-to because she's a lot smarter than I am. 10 years my junior. But usually I let her go first. She says something very profound and I go, that's exactly what I was gonna say. Um, I'm, uh, we're hyperfocused on a, a few things and one of them is, is not work.
I do real estate. Uh, rich Jones's real estate for all your real estate needs. Um, but I'm only helping, you know, a few people here and there. Um. I am really hyperfocused on deprogramming, um, negative, kind of starting to weed through all the things. And Jenny's been great with this. You know, as you, [01:31:00] you, you kind of go through.
Uh, and I did end up doing 26 years, so, uh, and like Jenny said, I was on the street a lot and I was, uh, less than careful with my body. So I've been catching up on all the, all the things that I, I really put off, um, for fear that it would take me out of my dream job. So I just got a new hip, uh, you know, that, um, really excited about that.
That was a, a very graphic surgery. But, uh, if you're interested in getting a new hip, get a new hip. Um, I just got sinus surgery, uh, 'cause I have really bad sinusitis. I just got a c Pap p. So I, I wear like a whole oxygen mask at night, that way I don't snore. Um, I'm, I focus mainly on, and it's gonna sound so goofy on making sure the kids are happy, the boss is happy.
Um, we didn't travel very much, we just didn't have the opportunity, um, when we were doing it. So [01:32:00] we're, we're, we're trying to travel as much as we can and, and soak in the moments. So trying to work through all the things that you kind of put off over the years. Um, uh, realize that nobody's coming to save you.
Uh, I was just thinking about Jocko and I, I dunno if that's his quote or somebody else's, but, um, your listeners should, should have that in the back of your mind. Like Jenny says, with the choking with gunner, when, when seconds counts, help is minutes away. So you, everybody should have it in their mind of nobody's coming to save.
Um, so we, we try to focus on, you know, the kids a lot more Jenny and i's relationship, my relationship with God, um, my relationship with kind of everybody I come into contact with. And much to my wife's chagrin, I am out just collecting stories as much as I can. Um, and if you, if you want to know the guy on Milwaukee Street that owns the donut shop, he has a great [01:33:00] story.
Go see him. Uh, the girl at Albertsons has a great, like, I find this to be true. Everybody's got a great story. So I'm just out collecting stories. Um, and God seems to put things in my path that I, I feel he does for a reason. And so those things, I'm more open to him now. So when something appears in my path, I tell Jenny and I go, Hey.
You know, X, Y, and Z. This popped up into my path. I think it clearly needs my direct attention. I'm gonna put it at the top of the pile and whatever it is. You know, I've, I've been really blessed to meet a lot of great people up here and, um, trying to help out as much as we can. We, both of us, and you should know this about cops, is, um, I won't speak for all, but almost all cops get into the job 'cause they like helping people either, um, to bring it full circle to where we started, you know, um, reorganizing chaos or, uh, stopping, uh, horrible things from occurring or, [01:34:00] or mitigating those things once they have occurred.
So I, I find that I still do a lot of that, you know, uh, I'm first on scene for a, a, a vehicle crash not too long ago. And because I was, uh, I did medic stuff, I was able to, you know, kind of help out when I can help out. I, I teach at, uh, the kids' school. Um, I do active shooter stuff and, um, we do all the things that, you know, that I would've done as a cop, just putting it out to the general public now.
'cause nobody is coming to save you.
Riley: Well said you guys. Well listen, um, really appreciate you coming on the podcast. Go earn your salt. You guys
[01:35:00]