[00:00:00]
Isaac: it does take a little bit of humility 'cause it's like, man, um.
You can either be humble or be humbled, and that's really the option. 'cause it'll happen either way.
Riley: Today we have my friend Isaac Payne from, uh, PAC Jiu Jitsu over in Rexburg, Idaho, um, of which I am an honorary member of the team.
Isaac: Absolutely.
Riley: like three times. It's,
that three times qualifies me for honorary member. Um, is [00:01:00] kind of a serial entrepreneur, you know, he's, he made a joke to me off air about he's, he doesn't have a full-time job.
He has five part-time jobs. And, and, uh, that's, that's the mark of somebody who has a little bit of, a little bit of healthy a DD and
Isaac: right?
Riley: of things done. And, and,
so you fit right?
into this show, my friends. Um,
BJJ Black belt. Um, we're gonna talk some about that. We're gonna talk about, um, Isaac's, uh, business career, kinda what it's looked like and how he's made some pivots from type of a, one type of a business to another. It's gonna be an interesting story. So, Isaac, welcome to the show, man.
Isaac: Thank you. Good to be here.
Riley: talk about yourself a little bit here.
Um, tell us kind of who you are, where you grew up, what, what life has looked like as you, as you became the man you are today.
Isaac: Sure. Um, I mean, excuse me. Uh, I grew up in rural Alaska. That's where I, uh, would. Was raised, and if I always say that, 'cause nobody knows where my town is, but my main, I imagine if you've been to Alaska, [00:02:00] you might've heard it, it's Delta Junction, Alaska. It's like, you know, a few hundred miles north of, uh, the coast and, uh, you know, few hundred miles west of the Canadian border.
So it's like the exact middle of nowhere. It's where the Alaska highway ends. Um, but it's a nice little town. There's only a couple thousand people there. It's pretty small, pretty remote. Uh, great place to grow up. Like I always joke, it's a great place to be from. Um, but, uh, I grew up there doing, uh, farm work and doing a lot of outdoorsy stuff, that kind of thing.
Typical Alaska stuff. Uh, my dad literally works in a gold mine still works there today. So that's where I grew up. I, I, I always consider like my first real martial art wrestling, 'cause I, I grew up wrestling in Delta Junction and. Slowly started accumulating martial arts over the years. Uh, in 1993, I watched the first UFC as a kid and I was like, man, this is mind blowing.
But as you well know, at the time, it was kind of hard pressed to find a Jiu Jitsu school, especially in Alaska. So I made do with my [00:03:00] wrestling, with my karate and all those things, um, eventually made my way to MMA, did a couple years of MMA, uh, but then fell in love with Jiu Jitsu once I finally got there.
So, uh, I've been doing that ever since. But yeah, I, I got down here to Idaho to go to school. That's why I ended up here. So I came here to go to school. I was like, man, I am broke. Uh, so I need a job. So I figured I tried this law enforcement thing for a couple years, just pay my way through school. And then 16 years later I was still doing it.
So it, it's, it. It's been good. I love law enforcement. Uh, in, in that time I opened up my own jiujitsu school and I was doing both for a long time and it reached this pinnacle where I could do one or the other really well, or both of them kind of halfway. So I opted to go the route of just doing my school and I've retired a couple years early outta law enforcement.
Uh, but I still keep my toe in the pool 'cause I teach at. Pretty much every academy there is in the state of Idaho. And I teach all their, uh, they call it arrest [00:04:00] and control techniques, but all their jujitsu stuff, all their hands-on stuff. Uh, I also teach their communications classes and things like that and their ethics classes, things, anything that would have to do with like ethical decision making or communication.
I helped 'em with that too. Uh, 'cause that's what my educational background's in. Uh, went to school for communication. Got my undergrad at BYU Idaho. Uh, got my master's degree at Johns Hopkins. And, uh, yeah, uh, wasn't when I started doing, uh, just jujitsu, it kind of changed the trajectory a little bit. Um, but I've loved every minute of it.
I don't feel like I, I ever work anymore. It's just
play all day.
Riley: That's so Um, you brought up something there. I just kinda wanna springboard
Isaac: Sure.
Riley: maybe a little bit of a tangent, but you,
the arrest and control,
uh,
Isaac: Yeah.
Riley: teach.
Isaac: Absolutely.
Riley: we have a program
school too, and I got to be part of that a little bit.
Um, I've, I've got to be the, the dummy that they get to beat up and arrest and
Isaac: I think everybody should experience that.
Riley: So I've worn [00:05:00] handcuffs. Um, fortunately that's the only time I've worn handcuffs. But
Isaac: Nice.
Riley: the thing that really
attention about that is as I was working with these guys, I was explaining to them how to control me, Right? Um. I'm a trained grappler. And so
Isaac: Right?
Riley: those
poor guys
Isaac: that's a task.
Riley: that meant.
Right?
Isaac: Yeah.
Riley: and
not, not to talk about me, but it was to talk about this conversation I had with a few of the guys where took the biggest mutt Guy in the room and his objective was to put handcuffs on me. I started with me on the ground, face, down, both hands behind my back, he had my, my hands, my basically my fingers kind of locked together, right? And this is where he gets to start. And his objective was to, to rest me. And you know how it goes, Ben, you're, you're a highly trained grappler too. [00:06:00] That was a five second escape.
And I was up running away, Right. And he's going, okay,
he's way
Isaac: Wait a minute,
Riley: way more athletic. But how the
me? Now? The conversation went down this path of. If you have to hurt me to control me, you're going to induce a fight,
Isaac: right.
Riley: And so,
where you have my arm and how much pain I'm in, I cannot not tense up. You're gonna view that tense up as resistance.
You're
Isaac: Right,
Riley: harder, I'm gonna resist harder.
all of a sudden we're in a fight and I'm like, but if you do these things and can control this position without hurting me, relax and let you put me in cuffs. When we had this, it was like an epiphany.
There were six guys standing around. You
know, I'm,
Isaac: a light bulb moment,
Riley: of
Isaac: one of those little light bulb moments
for all those cops.
Riley: the that they, they received [00:07:00] it that way. It was like, crap, I never really thought about, I could be the one inducing this, this fight. So talk about what you experienced in that.
Isaac: Sure. I mean, I've, I've been teaching arrest techniques for years and, uh, I've obviously arrested lots and lots of people. Had lots and lots of uses of force. Um, I was always the weird one back in the day 'cause that Isaac's that weird guy that just wrestles everybody to the ground. And it's like, I was the, I was the anomaly.
And slowly over time I feel very vindicated because that's the way all law enforcement is going now. So I'm not so weird anymore. But, um, it's one of the, it's, it's a great exercise and whoever had them do that drill is, that's perfect. Uh, a lot of times I'll do something like that where I'll, I'll let two cops try and handcuff me and they can't do it 'cause they have no idea how, and they, they get super frustrated.
But then we go back and you're like, okay, let's, let's break down how to do this for real. Uh, but like you said, pain compliance as they like to [00:08:00] term it is a lesser form like that that. Can't make up for a lack of skill either. So a lot of times people think, well, I don't need to train that. I just need to, to induce a little pain, or I need to use my taser.
All these things that they think are like a workaround to actually getting real control. And it's just, it's just lack of skill really. And like really it is difficult to learn. It is, I would say, a step more difficult than even just standard Jiu Jitsu because I could just tap somebody in Jiu Jitsu, but I have to control this person without hurting them.
And then get them, not just to a submission, but get them in a very specific position where I can put cuffs on them. And that's hard. That's really difficult, especially if you don't train it. Um, so yeah, I, I'm not a big fan of pain compliance. Now in the course of fighting someone, do people get injured, hurt, feel pain, feel discomfort?
Yes. I mean, and usually it's both sides. Um, but we're not trying to do that. That's, that shouldn't be the objective. Like the [00:09:00] old school model used to be a lot of like standing wrist locks and pressure points. And I mean, you could take the LA model where they would just beat the crap out of everybody until they like put their hands behind their back.
Um, but it's definitely, that's a blunt instrument. Like that's not what we're going for. Um, and if you can train that stuff, you can actually get quite good at it. To the point of, towards the end of my law enforcement career, like I don't even think my heart rate got up the last couple times I rased with somebody.
Like it was just too easy. And you hope that's, that's what you want for everybody though, it's like I'm not special at all. Like I can train anybody to get to that point. It just takes some,
some time. Uh, but yeah, it's definitely, it's definitely a soapbox for me 'cause uh, although it's better now than it ever has been as far as cops training, jujitsu, training their combatives training, their arrest techniques, it's better than it's ever been.
It's still not good. Like you're talking to probably 1% train regularly and that's not great. It's not great.[00:10:00]
Riley: percentage is kind of scary. The, uh, it was, it was funny because I took, you know, I told you the biggest muscle iest guy in the room, you know, and, and he had the personality to back it, you know, he
Isaac: Sure
Riley: he was a tough dude,
but we switched positions, right? And, you know, I get on his back and I, I get his arm controlled and I was like, you comfortable?
Okay, now try to move. And this guy's like, it was cool to watch because again, he received it well. Um, so kudos to you for putting all this time into these guys because, you know, there's egos involved and there's
Isaac: there is.
Riley: training. I have a taser.
just
Isaac: Oh man.
Riley: whatever it is. But
they start, start getting that vision, man.
it's so cool to watch the,
Isaac: Right.
Riley: much better they can be at their job,
Isaac: Yeah. And I mean, it it, and it, like you said, there's a lot of ego there. 'cause you have to, you have to have this supreme sense of confidence to do that job. And so this is juxtaposition of being [00:11:00] super confident, but humble enough to actually go in and learn this stuff. 'cause it does take, it will humble you.
So if you're not humbled, it'll humble you. And I mean, it's hard. It's hard and it's difficult and it takes time. And you're talking about people who, their number one resource is time 'cause they're so short on it. And, and, and it sounds harsh to say, but uh, it requires some sacrifice. Like if you have to choose between, uh, going out with your buddies or maybe going to Jiujitsu, you should go to Jiujitsu.
If you have to choose between lifting weights, which I love lifting weights, but if I have to choose between that or going to class, I should go to class. And like those are the trades we have to make. And some people just aren't quite there ready to make it. And a lot of them skate by on luck. They think, oh man, well I, I've been a cop for X amount of years.
I've done fine so far. Um, but really is just, they're just being fortunate. They're just lucky. And it's like, you don't wanna rely on luck. I never wanna rely on luck. Um, so [00:12:00] I don't know. And it's a different world than it was when I started in law enforcement. When I started in law enforcement, nobody knew anything.
Nobody knew. I knew Jack. And, and now it, I mean, someone can watch one UFC fight and they can figure out how to do a run neck, a choke or a guillotine, and then you're in trouble. 'cause you don't know how to get outta that.
Riley: Yeah that's that's crazy. 'cause there are, those two techniques are in particular,
Isaac: Yeah,
Riley: they're not,
Isaac: not
no, not,
really.
Riley: grabs your
man
Isaac: They'll get it.
Riley: you out
Isaac: Yeah,
Riley: Um,
I switching gears a little
Isaac: sure.
Riley: a little bit of a
Isaac: No, I love rabbit holes.
Riley: stuff get on a bunch of those. So, um, when did you get bit by the entrepreneur bug?
Isaac: Oh man. Like I, when I started Jiu Jitsu, I never intended on opening my own school. That was never on my radar. Um, but when I got here to Rexburg, [00:13:00] um, back in the day and there was nobody really to train with, like, I would travel to schools, I would travel to go train with other people. Um, my, my, you'll love this.
My first actual ground class, Jiu Jitsu class was with Keith Owen,
uh, who's a stud. I miss that guy. He's great.
Um,
Riley: know, Keith
instructor. Uh, he passed away a few years ago. Um,
yeah, having that in common
thread
Isaac: it's a good,
Riley: pretty cool
Isaac: I think I told you this story, but like, um, it was at the police academy my very first time at the police academy. And, uh. This dude was, walks in and he is wearing his pajamas and there's like 30, you know, young dudes in there that think they're hot stuff, young cops, baby cops. And he walks in.
The first words out of his mouth are, who here thinks they can kick my ass? So I'm like, I'll give it a go. Yeah. He went through all of us, just one bio, one just [00:14:00] trashed us. And when we were all sitting there sweaty mess, he's like, all right, are we ready, ready to learn now? And we were all like, yeah, teach us that.
So I've been hooked on Jiu Jitsu ever since that day. Um, but like, it was never like an intent of mine to open a school, but I had no training partners, nothing nearby. Uh, and it was, it was he Machado who was like, well, I guess you're just gonna have to do it yourself. So as a blue belt, I opened my first school, like my first iteration of my school, and that's what we started with.
And I just, a couple of us just training in a little room and it's grown since then.
Riley: how did you meet Hagan
Isaac: Uh, through Mark Massey. So I was training out with Mark. I'd bounce around to places and go train with other black belts, whoever I could find. And uh, mark introduced me to Haagan, um, and Hagan and I have been, been buddies ever since.
But we, we ride that same wavelength. Hagan's kind of a, uh, you've met him. He's a big, big teddy bear, very playful guy. Loves Jiu [00:15:00] Jitsu and loves life. So we get along great. So
Riley: Big big teddy bear But make no mistake he'll choke you out!
Isaac: make no mistake, maybe a grizzly bear. I don't know.
Sure.
Riley: I'm gonna, I'm gonna write
but I need to get a Kleenex. My nose is about to run off my face.
Isaac: You're good.
Riley: I need to write this before I forget where it's at, but okay. Um, hold on just a
Isaac: Sure.
Riley: Sorry brother.
Isaac: Too good.
Riley: I'm sitting here like, it's gonna
We're gonna
Isaac: have that.
Riley: Yeah.
Okay, so, uh, Massey, you were talking about where you met Hagan. We finished that question. so how long, how, how long ago did you start Jiujitsu?
You you said
Isaac: Um, so we started, like, I started my school with my wife. She, uh, she trains a bit too. Um, but we started 10 years ago, so 2015. Um, but I've been doing Jiu Jitsu for about 13 years. 43.
Riley: Young buck.
Isaac: I'm in my prime.
Riley: yeah for Um, so. get started, you start your school as a blue belt, which That's a, that's a challenge, right?
Because you're
Isaac: That's wild.
Riley: feeling your way
Isaac: Oh yeah,
Riley: the
this up isn't to criticize like a blue belt starting a school.
'cause I
cool, especially when you're the only guy in the area. Right.
But there's that thing that business owners deal with where we always feel less than qualified
to
Isaac: Right,
Riley: any venture
trying to
Isaac: Right,
Riley: Um
Isaac: it's, it, it's,
Riley: that
Isaac: so, it's interesting 'cause I did feel that, 'cause like, I mean, even looking back now, I'm like a, a blue belt. That's craziness. Um, but, um, I had more than that in, in my resume. So I, I had a, a, like a few years of MMA under my belt, some MMA fights. Uh, I trained, I'm a martial arts nerd, so I've trained a lot of [00:16:00] martial arts, uh, karate, boxing, Muay Thai, um, Kav, maga.
And so I added all those things into my business. Uh. Which gave it some validity and, uh, gave me a wider offering and I think was a really good model in that first early stage. Um, 'cause it wasn't just a blue belt with a Jiu Jitsu school. It was this guy is a blue belt in Jiu Jitsu, but he is also a black belt in this, a black belt in this and been training this and this for years.
And we can, we can have a, like, a little bit wider spectrum of things to offer. So I think that that helped curb that feeling a bit. It was like, oh, I am qualified to do this. Um, I am educated in this. And, and so, and as you know, there's a lot of people that are absolutely world class black belts, world class jiujitsu people and absolute white belts at running a business.
Like they can't do it to save their lives. And I feel like it was flipped for me. It's like I know a lot about the business side of it, but I'm still growing into my jiujitsu side of it. And that's how that started. [00:17:00] It's obviously leveled out a bit over time, but
yeah.
Riley: that's, that's
you're the point you bring up about these world class black belts who don't know the business side of it. We see that in any, any, uh, business venture, right?
We see
Isaac: Sure.
Riley: the guy who's a high
and he, he can do anything there is to do with fixing a leak or plumbing a house or, you know, whatever that happens to be. But then he decides to go out on his own. And the form of owning and running a business is very different
than
Isaac: Yeah.
Riley: trade Right
Isaac: I, I met a guy who was a really, really good black belt, and, uh, he was talking to me about my school and everything like that, and he's like, oh yeah, I used to have a school a couple years ago, and long story short, he lost it because he didn't realize he had to pay taxes. I said, no clue. I was like, that's a big oversight, but Okay.
Just things that would seem very obvious or, or little things that you might not know unless you had a background in that. Um, [00:18:00] yeah, and you just have to have, and, and you can curb that. You can curve that hurdle too. I mean, there's people that take on business partners or seek, um, you know, mentors in that, that respect.
Um, but yeah, I feel like I had a good educational background in that stuff. Um, but the Jiu Jitsu is, has been slowly teetering back up to that. So
Riley: that well jujitsu's a long
game Right
Isaac: it is a long game.
Riley: it's a so is business.
um
Isaac: Yeah,
Riley: you know, it's, it's
kind of one and the same thing. It's like, you know, we, we say 10, 12 years it takes to get a Jiu Jitsu black belt. You know, um, a long time. But to really get good at business, man, it takes 10 or 12 years.
You
know it's
Isaac: it does. It really does.
Riley: just have to and it sounds like you went through that fire
Isaac: Oh, absolutely. And you figure things out, you know? Um, 'cause like I, we could have the same business and just move it over to another city, another town, another, you know, [00:19:00] uh, and it could change the dynamic of it completely. And unless you, unless you learn to pivot and pick, pick up on those little nuances quickly, oh, you're in trouble.
So there's things like that that just take, like I said, just take time to figure that out.
Riley: let's talk about that pivot because you had, um, when you first started your company, PAC, PAC,
Isaac: Yeah,
Riley: name's Payne
it's
Isaac: yeah.
Riley: It
Jiu Jitsu school then.
Isaac: No, it was actually much, it was much bigger in scope than that. So we had, we had an MMA program, we had a kav MAGA program. Uh, we had Mohai boxing. We had anything I could think of, I was. Chucking it in there. We had weight, we had a weight room, we had a boxing ring. Um, we had it all and it was huge. And it was a lot of fun.
It was a lot of fun. Like it was like my own personal playground, right? It's like if you can imagine, uh, uh, a grittier UFC gym that you could just go in and, and just do all the things you, you love to do that. That was it. [00:20:00] Um, the problem that I ran into, 'cause it kept growing in scope, uh, it was, it was very difficult to manage.
Um, very difficult to keep all those moving parts going. Uh, I even had like a 24 hour door access, like people coming and going all hours of the day and night. Uh, so it was, it became a monster. It slowly like, took over my life. Um, so I changed the paradigm a little bit and at that point, uh, you know, I was a brown belt about to get my black belt from, from Hagan.
And I was like, okay, I'm changing the model. I'm going to eliminate all the things that. Don't make me money that, that they're a lot of fun, but they're not cost effective or they're not making the money. Right. Which is a hard choice because when you love something, but it's not bringing the revenue like it, it can't cost me money because that's literally taking uh, money outta my pocket and food outta my family's mouth.
So it's like those things gotta go. Um, so I got rid of a lot [00:21:00] of the stuff I got. I sold my boxing ring. Uh, I got rid of all of the fitness side of it and realized that really all I need is a room with a mat That is all you need, and everything else is extra. And if the extra adds value or adds revenue, great.
If it doesn't, I got no room for it. I got no time for it. So I streamlined my schedule. Um, I started. Training a lot more coaches to teach things so I wouldn't have to teach everything. 'cause that was something Carlos Machado taught me. He's like, always fire yourself. It's like, don't do everything yourself, teach someone else how to do it, then fire yourself, move on to the next thing.
And I'm like that, that's the new model. Uh, so now I teach once a week because I want to, not because I have to. And it's Jiu Jitsu primarily, like we are a Jiu Jitsu school. Uh, I do have an MMA team, but instead of doing like one come one, come all, come learn MMA, it's, I will handpick people that are interested and competent to learn MMA.[00:22:00]
And so now we'll have like four or five guys, that's it. That's our MMA team. They have focused trainings together so that not every, not every Monday are they teaching the new guy how to jab. They're, they're building skills and getting much better, much faster. So it's a little bit more streamlined that way.
So that's been super successful. Um, so I've been really happy with that. We still do a MUI HAI program. Uh, 'cause I think every grappler needs needs to know how to strike. Uh, so we do do that. And, uh, yeah, that's pretty much the model now. Uh, it's not 24 hours anymore. We have a schedule show up for class when class is not in session, everybody go home.
So that's the, that was the big shift and it just came down to efficiency. And what's crazy from a business perspective is that before this, my prices were relatively cheap, like they were, nothing was over a hundred bucks. It was super, super cheap. Um, and then afterwards I upped the prices and I limited the schedule.
And I changed. I totally changed the, the branding. I changed the logo, [00:23:00] shortened the name even, and I upped my prices. And I actually do better now financially than before, even though I offer less and my prices are higher. So
just a little more efficient.
Riley: Say you offer less but the
reality is you probably offer
more because
it's focused
Isaac: Exactly. I should, yeah, I should definitely put it more like that. 'cause it's more focused. Our grapplings gotten better, our MMA has gotten better, and it's like you can actually progress a little bit better.
Riley: fact. I, you said something there, man, that I just think business owners should really listen to, and that was, if it wasn't making you money, get rid of it exchange it for something that does.
Right
I
Isaac: Or at least adds value to where I can sell this product a little bit better. And that, that's hard. And a lot of times we run into this, um, this ideology where it's like, well, I'll just offer discounts. Here's a sale. And we, we devalue ourselves all the time. It's like, we devalue our time, we [00:24:00] devalue our product.
And it's like, no. It's like I have this great product. I know it's good. I know my product's good. This is the value that it's at. And it doesn't go down except for a rare occasion. And. People feel that, they feel when something has a value to it, they feel when, when something has that price to it because it's worth it.
And, and not, not backing up on that is, is another hard thing to learn. But you get to the point where you're like, no, if you want my time, this is what it's gonna cost
[00:25:00]
Riley: I had this conversation just this morning. I was sit down with a guy and we were, we were discussing, uh, a potential business move he's wants to make. And he was wanting to buy a machine that would allow him to produce a product that was higher end than any of his competitors had. And, and none of his competitors actually have anything. Uh, have something that's sort of similar, but this would've put him heads above everyone else. it's a $25,000 investment.
Isaac: significant.
Riley: going, should
I not? Because you know, they're charging this much was, which is outrageous price for it. I could, I could do it for 30% less and have this better product.
And I'm If If you take a better product and charge 30% [00:26:00] less, no one's gonna believe you. It's a better product. You know? And to him, he is going, how do I can't, you know,
cause
Isaac: Yeah.
Riley: this so much. I can't even
that to charge more than that. It scares him.
Isaac: Yeah. Because just to the general person, they would think like, oh, uh, if I want more people to buy my product, I should make it cheaper. That way they'll buy the cheaper product over. But it's not that way. There's a psychology to that that's totally different. And it, and you have to have confidence in your, in your product and in yourself.
Like, 'cause we're not the only jujitsu school in town anymore. Jiujitsu ISS much more popular now. Um, but when someone comes in, I'm a terrible salesperson, but when someone comes in, they try a class, they're like, well, I'd really like to, to go try all these other schools. I'm like, do it. I encourage you to go do it.
Uh, go try 'em out. Try 'em all out. And you'll be back. And that sounds super cocky, sounds very arrogant, but when someone's looking for this, at this level of, [00:27:00] of, of worth, of value, they're gonna see that. And then if they go try the others, like your friend, they're gonna see like, oh, well this isn't as good.
Why would I spend even, I, I'll pay more to have the better product. Is is essentially what we're, we're looking at.
Riley: that's a just a killer, real realization,
And
Isaac: Oh yeah.
changing.
Riley: You're,
uh, efficiency thing of having things that produce profit or getting rid of them completely. And it reminds me of like the, you know, you see these who, you know, they're, they frame houses or something and they've got this $90,000 pickup they're beaten to death with, you know, throwing lumber in the back.
And
Isaac: Yeah.
Riley: like, oh, you don't,
a $90,000 truck for that job, man, that that $10,000
Isaac: We'll do. just fine.
Riley: do You just fine.
Isaac: Yeah.
Riley: one up.
Isaac: Right.
No, that's, that's the, that's the kinda have to look at it.
Riley: is what you did, [00:28:00] right? You're like, we, we buy things sometimes in a business setting where you said personal playground, I love that
Isaac: Yeah.
Riley: that's kind of what it.
was, right?
was like, this is cool to have,
Isaac: Super cool. Very fun.
And that's hard, but it, but, so there's nothing saying like, okay, you know, this afternoon if I wanted to go grab my boxing gloves and grab some friends and go do some boxing, we could go do that. And there's nothing to say. But it doesn't have to be part of my business model. It doesn't have to be part of my business plan.
Um, so separating those two things out can be very difficult 'cause you tie so much of yourself into your business. And you are part of your business in a, in a, in a big sense. Like, just like you, you know, you're the face of your company. I'm the face of mine. And it's like, uh, but you can have your personal time and do with it what you want.
And if someone wants to come along for that, that's great. But as far as the business goes, that's a different thing.
Riley: that's good wisdom right there, man. Um, okay, so you are [00:29:00] currently, we are sort of named names, but without going into like detail of it, you're an affiliate school, um, a, in an association. Without necessarily naming because I, you know, it's not necessary for the conversation, but what made you choose the path you chose?
Was there just an established relationship or was it certain features about it that stood out to you?
Isaac: N mean, uh, the first school I ever trained at, um. They were, they were technically under Marcello, Alonzo and Marcello's. Great. He's a great guy. Um, when I got here to Idaho, there was, there's a lot of Pedro Sauer in Idaho. I love Pedro Sauer too, by the way. He's an absolute stud.
yeah,
he's, dude, he's, he's one of my heroes.
Um, and, but I, I had met Mark and I had met Hagan and Hagan and I really vibed in a, in a, in a lot of ways. And, uh, as I describe it, I'm sure you can be like, yeah, that makes sense because, [00:30:00] uh, Hagan's. Loves to have fun. He loves to learn new things. Um, his jujitsu's a little different even than his brothers because, you know, back in the day he would do, you know, worlds and all, everything like that.
And he would compete in all his Jiu Jitsu competitions and he'd be out outta competitions 'cause there weren't that many. Uh, so he also did sambo and wrestling. He is been world champions in all those sports as well. And so he, you know, 30 years ago, came back to Brazil after doing Sambo and all these other things and he's like, guys, these leg locks and things, they're, they're the future.
If you don't do these in 20 years, you're gonna be obsolete. And wouldn't, you know, that's pretty prophetic. Uh, but I've, I've grown up doing a lot of, 'cause I grew up doing wrestling and he's like, that wrestling's awesome. Let's see how we can weaponize that wrestling and turn it into Jiu Jitsu wrestling.
Oh, you're, you could do that. Well, let's, let's do this. And it was never like this. Because you know, a lot of times in Jiu Jitsu we get very dogmatic and Keegan is not that way, bro. He is [00:31:00] not that way. Like, uh, anytime I come up with something creative or new, he'll sit there and we'll workshop and we'll play with it.
And it becomes this kind of creative process putting the art in martial art, you know, and we always vibed like that. And I was like, this is, this is the path I need to be on 'cause this person lets me grow and experiment and do things. So yeah, just having that freedom has been huge to me.
Riley: thing how, you know, 'cause of a lot of Jiu Jitsu memes that are, you know, how culty it gets and
Isaac: You're right,
Riley: it gets. Like, you know,
way and those leg locks are for losers and, you
Isaac: right.
Riley: win Or, or, you know,
whatever it
Isaac: Yeah.
Riley: it's, uh, it's like
Isaac: Yeah. There was a great Hagan moment where I.
I, I, I was working on this funky, like leg lock entry. I was like, oh, Haagan, let me show you this dumb move. And I did it. And he is like, did he tap? And I was like, yeah. He is like, that's not a dumb move then.
If it works. It's not dumb.
Riley: Right [00:32:00] No, I, I love that because, uh, I know Jean Jacques that way.
Carlos
Isaac: Yeah,
Riley: Right? Those are, those are all Machado
Isaac: yeah. Very open-minded.
Riley: you know, and, uh, Pedro's that way. I, I watch Pedro at the PGF man and,
Isaac: What a stud,
Riley: guy, it's so funny
known for being more traditional, um, Jiu Jitsu, but make no mistake, that guy is up on the stuff, you
Isaac: right?
Riley: ended up winning, right?
Isaac: Yeah. And it was, I have a great Pedro story from that because, uh, I was, I was there helping manage athletes and, uh. We were, I mean, you were there, you were there like the PGF breaks, people, like physically breaks people. And we were running out of alternates to throw in. Uh, and Pedro had the last two, like healthy alternates left.
Um, and I was asking if we could use them on other teams to fill the gaps, uh, in case we needed them. And the athletes weren't super inclined. They're like, man, I'd rather [00:33:00] like stick with my team. And to their credit, they're very loyal. Um, but Pedro's sitting there and he stops everybody and he is, this is what he said, but he is boys, did we come here to fight or to watch?
And they're like to fight. So they jumped in and got some matches and he is like, you wouldn't have fought otherwise. Um, so I thought that was a cool moment. It was a cool Pedro sour moment. It's like, did we come here to watch or would you come here to fight?
Riley: such a gentle
guy
Isaac: so chill.
Riley: as a fighter, but boy, man, that that's
Isaac: You could see it in his eyes though.
Riley: he that's in there for sure.
Isaac: Oh, for sure.
Riley: man. So owning a, owning this business, this jiujitsu school, right? We always, you've probably heard this term before, business is fun until people get involved,
Isaac: Yes. Yes.
Riley: So what's been your
with, with [00:34:00] let's, just because you've done a lot of things, but with the, the school in in particular, what's, what's your biggest challenges?
Isaac: I mean, for me personally, I've, I've always understood the people side of it, and that was always, that was always a thing I, I started with early, with both my communications education, but also in law enforcement. I just understood people. I could talk to people, I get along with people. I could manage people and that's fine.
Um, it was the numbers side for me. Like, I'm not, not inclined that way. Like, if you wanna put me to sleep, just show me a spreadsheet. Like, I, I struggle with that. Luckily I have a very gifted business partner and my wife, who's very good at that side of that. Um, 'cause you have to, there's a, there's a, another lesson from Carlos.
She's like, uh, if you don't know your numbers, you're failing. Because you have to know your numbers. You have to know where your, your memberships are at. You have to know what your prices are. You have to know, you have to know all the numbers, all the, like, and it's not that I kick all that off to her and make her do it on her own, but I, I definitely lean on her as she's more talented [00:35:00] in that realm.
And that's, that's my go-to business partner. And, and I've never incorporated, like, I've had lots of instructors, but I've never incorporated another business partner. 'cause I was always scared. 'cause like you said, introduce new people, introduce new problems, um, because that dynamic's always worked so well.
But that's always been my biggest struggles with the numbers.
Hate it.
Riley: and that's,
that's a common thing, man, with you. You said you put the art in martial arts, right? It's. So you have that kind of artistic brain. That part is, it eludes people who are that artistic, creative type man. When all of a sudden you've gotta put like concrete, these things have to be done, but they're like, man, I just I wanna do the
pretty
Isaac: I just wanted to, yeah, and I think that, I mean, 'cause you, you've probably met tons of them. There's tons of guys coming up in Jiu Jitsu like, oh, I'd love to own a school one day. I'd love to. And not discrediting them or discouraging them in any [00:36:00] way, but they see it as like, oh, I just show up and do Jiu Jitsu, teach Jiu Jitsu, and I go home.
It's like, that's like 30%. Yeah. Yeah. All right. And there, then there's all this behind the curtain stuff that you have to do that they don't even know exists. And I don't take that as a, as a, as an insult or anything like that. It's just
they don't know it's there,
Riley: yeah
Isaac: it is
Riley: know
And this
Isaac: right.
Riley: about you have to figure that stuff
but how do. How would you suggest somebody in any business form figure that stuff out before they're so into it they can't survive that learning curve, that dip.
Isaac: I, I asking questions has always helped me out quite a bit and seeking out people that are a little further down the road because in, in, in the beginning. I mean, you might have a good theoretical knowledge. I felt like I had a good theoretical knowledge, but there are a lot of things that I didn't have experience in, or you'll always run it into a scenario that you [00:37:00] have not yet encountered.
And finding those people that are good mentors, people that are a little further down the road than you, that have been added a few more years, uh, even if they're not in your area. I mean, uh, Keegan, Carlos, all the Machado brothers have been super helpful to me to where I could, I could pick up the phone and be like, Hey, this is what I got.
Do you have five minutes to talk me through this? And they'll do it. And that has been gold to me. 'cause I don't have one, I don't, I know I don't have to do it on my own. And two, I have someone who's already been there and come out the other side of it. So it does have a little bit of hope to that as well.
It's like, oh, well if they can do it, I can do it.
Riley: such a good point, dude. 'cause you're talking about having some humility to ask those questions. 'cause
Isaac: Yeah.
Riley: we wanna,
we wanna go in there like, Yeah.
we're the, we're the owner of this business and we don't wanna, It's sort of like being a black belt and not admitting that, know, I was talking to a guy the other day, I was like, my leg lock [00:38:00] game. I thought 10 years into this thing I'd have a leg lock game and I got a little bit. But it's not amazing. But there's also all these other areas that,
Isaac: much, So
much,
Well, and that's the thing too, and it's, we always draw these comparisons. You know, Jiu Jitsu is life, but it, it does like parallel a lot of times because there's so much of Jiu Jitsu, so many things. It's like you can't have a high level game, so to speak, at everything in Jiu Jitsu. It's just not possible.
So we become quasi specialists. We have a good general knowledge, but then we have an area where we kind of shine and I think that's okay. And it happens the same way in business. It's like, okay, I'm. I have a general knowledge and I shine here, but then having the humility, like you said, to be like, okay, this is not my area of expertise, or at least not what I'm particularly gifted at.
gonna find somebody who is. So, it's like my coaches, like there, I have coaches at my school that are better at things than I am and [00:39:00] I'm okay with that. I'm glad that makes me happy. 'cause it's not something I'm good at. I can task that to this person who's much better at it, who can teach you who can do it.
And I, I can, I can reap the benefits from that and vice versa.
Riley: you just kind of hit a hot button right there. Um, I don't even know if, you know, you just waited right through that one, but
Isaac: Oh
Riley: this idea of
someone who is on paper a subordinate to you, admitting that they are better at a thing,
Isaac: man. Openly.
Riley: Talk
little bit because
that takes a level of maturity to go, you know what, um, yeah, the result that guy's gonna get out of this is better.
I'm gonna, that I'm gonna get, so I'm gonna let him do that
and let him
Isaac: Yeah,
Riley: How'd
Isaac: I mean,
Riley: hurdle?
that's a pride
Isaac: right. And I, I it, and it sounds counterintuitive 'cause starting as a blue belt you don't have [00:40:00] that like, 'cause everybody's pretty close to you at that point. It's like we're all just kind of bros. Like we're all pretty close to the same level. Um, so there was never kind of that feeling in the beginning.
And I think I've just never let go of that white belt, blue belt mentality where it's like I can learn something from anybody in the room. And if you want your jiujitsu to grow, just as general recommendation, keep that white belt attitude. It's like, I don't care if it's a room full of newbies, somebody in that room.
Can teach me something cool. I know they can, or they'll help me refine something. It's like you could, you might have an, A game, something that you're super, super good at, and you do it on somebody who's brand new that doesn't react. Right. Right. And they teach you a, a new way to do that and you just found some value in that experience.
And I think that's always there. And there's people that are super gifted. Um, they're, they have super good talents, even just down to, to different body types. Like I have coaches that are 150 pounds and I have coaches that are 250 pounds. They're gonna do things [00:41:00] very differently. And that's good because we have all these students and they're all different.
So they might resonate with one coach's, uh, delivery method, whether it's the way he teaches or they might resonate with this coach's body type 'cause they're similar to them. And that's great. 'cause it just helps, just helps everything get better. But it does take a little bit of humility 'cause it's like, man, um.
You can either be humble or be humbled, and that's really the option. 'cause it'll happen either way.
I'd rather do it voluntarily.
Riley: Okay that's going into the statement right there. Um, yeah, 42, 30. I'm sorry, I'm taking a little little,
Isaac: You're good, bro.
Riley: there. 'cause I gotta write that down. 'cause
that, that statement is so true. You gotta, you can either be humble or be humble.
Isaac: Yeah,
Riley: Holy crap.
people hear that because that's, uh, it's, it's happening one way or
another
Isaac: it's gonna happen and I've, I've tapped every belt at every belt and been tapped by every belt at every belt. I don't care.
matter.
Riley: The, the,
[00:42:00] talking about this, this to a guy yesterday, right? We were, we were grappling and, and know, he's much lower belt and it was, you know, it, you know how it goes. It's not really a fair contest, right? We're, we're grappling and, and. He gets done and he's like, man, I just feel like I can't do anything. Is he says, is it possible that I could ever submit you? And I'm, I'm going, yeah.
Isaac: Absolutely
Riley: right, it'll work on anyone.
Isaac: it will. That's the truth,
Riley: Often
Isaac: right?
Riley: this. Right. So
I, I, I had this experience where I had about a three year gap where a blue belt had not submitted me in three years, and then one week, a blue belt and a white belt got me in the same week, you know, whatever.
And, and it's what you're saying, you know, it's
Isaac: Yeah.
Well it
yeah, and you can either let it eat you alive and you're like, fine, this is stupid. I'm never doing this again, or. You sit there and deconstruct it and it makes you better for it. So it's really the two options. And one of the [00:43:00] cool things about regular training partners is they're dissecting you.
Even like subconsciously, they're like, well I did it that way the last time it didn't work. I'm gonna tweak this. And they get better at beating you, which is awesome. But at the same time, not losing faith. 'cause when you go train with new people and they don't know what you're, what you do and they don't know how you move, um, you're all of your jersey is gonna work a lot better.
Uh, it's the hardest people are the ones you train with the most. 'cause they're not gonna let you get away with all your shenanigans.
Riley: no, the cool thing about it is man, in, in that statement you made, you can be humble or be, or be humbled when that happened. The, there is that little part of our ego that's just like, crap man, I just got
Isaac: Yeah.
Riley: I
in wine or I can celebrate, you know? And in my, in this case, I was genuinely able to go, you know what, freaking high five dude.
Isaac: Yeah.
Riley: sitting there like on cloud nine
they just tapped a higher belt. Right?
Isaac: Sure. Give them it.
Riley: give [00:44:00] crap. And so the same thing with employees or you know, in your
coaches
it's '
Isaac: em their wins.
Riley: up love, you know, love them for it. 'cause they just did, right? They did
Isaac: Yeah,
Yeah, yeah, They're doing the things you taught them. So like it's a win for both of you really. It's like when I train people up, like you, I know you've experienced the same thing. It's like they start in the beginning and maybe they're like that guy. It's like, oh, I can't do anything to 'em. And then slowly they get a little bit more competitive with you and you're like, it's, it is like, it's bittersweet.
'cause now they're, they're beating you up a little bit, but they're doing that because you taught 'em. Right. And so it's like, it's bittersweet. But to put people in a box to where it's like, okay, I need you to do this. Exactly. Like how do I, how I do it? And you can only do it this way. I mean, you're, you're putting a ceiling on them, you're putting a ceiling on your business.
So just let 'em flourish and like obviously keep it within, within bounds. But, um, you want things to be safe, to be, to be efficient. You want things to be done well. Um, but don't, don't stop their growth. Keep 'em growing. Make 'em as [00:45:00] big as they can be
Riley: yeah So beautiful man. You know, you, you talked about Carlos Machado saying you gotta trying to fire yourself.
Isaac: always.
Riley: That's what it
ego gets involved and then somebody does something better than us and then we want to ache about
And
Isaac: I know, and Carlos is such a humble guy and he's an interesting case study too. 'cause he is the oldest Machado brother. He is also the SM Oh, there it is. He's the oldest, but also the smallest Machado brother as far as size. And so his training partners, his four other brothers were all bigger than him.
His go-to training partner is Hagan, who's the biggest one. And so he's, he's suffered this his whole life. Can you imagine not only your, you're not only like getting beat up by your little brother, but your little brother that's bigger than you. Like, that's, that's humbling. You better get good at Jiu Jitsu, which he is.
He's amazing at Jiu Jitsu. So he took it as an opportunity.
Riley: Oh [00:46:00] man. And you know, it's funny, I held this, uh, stay humble coffee up for you
Isaac: Yeah.
Riley: That's his company. So
Isaac: Yeah.
That's the Carlos Machado way. Work hard, stay humble.
Riley: and He lives up to it.
I
Isaac: He does
Riley: he's gonna be coming on
I'm
Isaac: good.
Riley: excited for that recording.
for sure. okay, so we we're kinda, um, getting a little off our track
Isaac: No, you're good.
Riley: these challenges of
Isaac: Sure,
Riley: What's your favorite part about owning a
Isaac: man. It's, it's like people by nature, like, we like to think we're, especially as, you know, red blooded Americans. We like to think we're individuals and, and that we're strong individuals, but in reality, human, human people are PAC people. We are, we need others. And having a place to call your group, your [00:47:00] tribe, your people is essential.
Like it's, it's just a necessary thing for, for a healthy human to have. And I've always had that with Jiu Jitsu in general, but then having my school, it's like. Uh, it's, it's more than friends. It's like a, it's like having a fa, a family, a tribe to go to every day. And we like, you know, it's like, it's not just like, okay, we go to class and we go home.
It's never that week. We hang out with each other. We help each other move. We're there for each other. When, when we have babies, we're there for each other when a family member dies, like, you have this extended family, not by blood. Um, that's huge. And it's beautiful. And that's probably my favorite part.
Yeah. Yeah. We, we've swapped sway. It's, it's, there's a bond there, you know. Um, but that bond is, is definitely real and I've loved that. I love, um. Because I, we do have a lot of people like train and then they'll move away. 'cause that's what, that's what happens in life. And I've sent a lot of people out into the world, and I love getting [00:48:00] those messages.
I love getting those check-ins. They're like, Hey man, uh, miss you guys. Um, I, I've always, always remembered my time at PAC because this is what I learned and, and I'm carrying that with me in my new school. I was like, I love getting messages like that. It's like, it's that little ripple effect where it's like, okay, you do one good thing for somebody and, and it dominoes out into the world.
And I feel like that's the effect that even just a tiny school like ours can have just in the greater scheme of things.
Riley: I, it's that way with, with any business, right? And we see Jiu Jitsu. 'cause we're always
and kind of
Isaac: Yeah. That, yeah.
Riley: each other's heads. We go through some
but every business is that way, man. You're fighting the freaking battles. You're, you're out there killing stuff and dragging it home.
As Dave Ramsey always says, you know, it's a.
Isaac: Yeah.
Riley: That's a, that's a
people who fight together, There's a
Isaac: There's a bond for sure.
Riley: you made that kind of a, of a fun [00:49:00] comment at the beginning of the thing, that you don't have a full-time job, you have five part-time jobs,
Isaac: Sure.
Riley: run a Jiujitsu school.
You have
Isaac: No, I have a lot, I have a lot of side hustles. I'm a collector of side hustles. Um, like I said, I still teach, uh, the arrest techniques and combatives for in and I in Idaho's a police academies, we call 'em post, um, police officer standards and training. So I, I teach at, um, Idaho State University at their post academy.
Um, I teach at College of Eastern Idaho CS Academy. Um, I also teach some in-house ones. So an agency will call me up, be like, Hey, we need someone to come instruct this course for us. 'cause they have a mandatory amount of hours that they have to meet every year in training. So I'll make sure that. I'll, I'll at least cover my area, like, uh, as much as possible.
I teach with, um, if you know Jed Lewis, he owns a, he owns a jujitsu school in Shelly, Idaho. We teach a lot. We teach a lot together. He's like my go-to training partner for arrest techniques. Uh, he works for IFPD. Um, but yeah, I do a lot of that. [00:50:00] Um, I also, um, work with, uh, Anaconda Fight wear, which I know you've, you know, you've seen their knee braces and stuff, so I do do some work with them as well.
Yeah. Um, those types of things. And, um, I'm trying to think of any, any other side hustles I got going on right now. Those are the big ones right now. So I do a lot of teaching. I, I, I teach at a couple different schools. Um, yeah, that's, that's pretty much the, the gigs right now.
Riley: talk about that man because that's, that's something that sometimes, uh, who are real high achievers, they will have this other, venture
that's
Isaac: Sure.
Riley: of, adjacent maybe,
Isaac: Right.
Riley: separated
Isaac: might be totally different and that's fine. And and I think that's totally healthy.
Riley: do you, do you recommend that?
Because I, I
Isaac: Oh yeah.
Riley: thing every day, all the time and
burnout
[00:51:00] [00:52:00]
Isaac: Oh
it's really, I mean, I love what I do and there's still days where it's like, man, there are days where I've spent 12 hours on a mat. I am just smoked by the end of that. And to have other things is huge. Um, and we talk about it in law enforcement all the time 'cause that has much the same thing where it's like people make it their identity.
It's all of who they are. And when any part of that gets compromised, it compromises themselves and you can't have that. So you have to kind of diversify yourself. Um, so having time with your friends that maybe aren't jujitsu friends, have a diversity of friends that you can talk to about different things, even if they have no idea what you're talking about.
It doesn't matter. Um, have family time. That's huge to me. Have a spiritual life. I don't care what religion you prescribe to, if any, but have some kind of spiritual element to your life and then have other ventures that you want to try out. [00:53:00] Like maybe they're adjacent, maybe they're totally different.
It's fine. Uh, to where it's like, okay, this perks my interest. I wanna do a deep dive into that and see what happens. Like, um, it was just last year, my, my wife and I were sitting there talking and we're like, you know what? I've never made soap. I wanna try making soap. 'cause we'd, we'd, I had ran into some guys at, at uh, ADCC who, who made their own soap.
I was like, man, that sounds cool. I wanna try that. So I, for the past year, I've kind of been working on making my own soap. So just working on that type of stuff where it's like, okay, I have a project, I wanna try it. And I think that that keeps your creative mind going too, to where it's like I have to keep learning something.
Um, and something that'll keep you excited too.
Riley: you're, people ask me when we, when we created the salt, uh, electrolytes brand. Like asked constantly, and it's not like a one time thing, but probably once a week somebody will come up and say, you know, did you have a nutrition degree? Did you have this
Isaac: [00:54:00] Okay.
Riley: I'm going, no, no, I
fact, it wasn't even a ever been a thought. you don't have to have a college degree to do that. You can study that stuff in other places.
Isaac: So much information is just out there.
Riley: out back
Isaac: There's so much information out there that you just, I mean, we live in the information age. Like if you wanna learn something, it's there. You can find it. It's all out there. And I, I've never met anybody that knows the science of what you do better than you. I'll just say that.
Riley: I appreciate that.
dude that.
that means a lot. 'cause I, I spent a lot of time in
these
Isaac: you do.
Riley: white papers.
you talked about going to sleep for a spreadsheet, man, and I've, I've read plenty of that kind of stuff that it's, it's like, I don't know how to put it. you can read through stuff like that. And a lot of it's repetition, but you might spend six, eight hours reading through something to find this nugget in there that's so valuable. And [00:55:00] I, I hear that kind of as a thread in your world where, you know, you did that with Jiu Jitsu, right? How many times have you learned an arm bark?
Isaac: Yeah. Right.
Riley: Right?
By the time
degree, is that
Isaac: Yeah.
Riley: in your black belt? So
just so you guys know, to, to make first degree black belt in 13 year period that you talked about, that's difficult.
Isaac: It's difficult.
Riley: you've put the time in my
what I say by that is you've learned an arm bar a thousand times, but every so often you pick up another nugget and it
changes effectiveness And I felt like that way with these white papers, man, I just read so much data it's just data. It's not, it's not stories, it's not fluffed up. It's not entertaining. It's just I to learn. To learn to learn. Um, but then there's these little things in there and I'm
Isaac: It makes it all worth it.
Riley: worth It 'cause I got this
you
Isaac: Yeah.
And, [00:56:00] and yeah, and it's like that too. And, and I, I do get to travel a bit and I get to go to train at other schools and things like that. And I think that's super healthy too. Um, because of that element. It's like I might go train at a Carlson Gracie School in California and I might get to go train at a 10th planet in Seattle, and they're both teaching arm bars, but I'm gonna get two different things from those and they're both gonna make me better.
And I just take that and like, uh, John Jocko, he says, I'm Mr. Steal your move. Steal your move. And he is gonna put that in his, in his tool belt.
So.
Riley: It is so
I've been making those, uh, well you did one of the add a little salt to your game videos with
me Right
Isaac: Yeah,
Riley: I, I went down and had a private with, with Carlos and I did the seminar at your place and
Isaac: yeah,
Riley: the spring and, and there
he was working on that I, I've been stealing.
Right. I've been,
and
I put it in my videos. I
credit him in there. I kind of put, put a little link
a
Isaac: Right. I always try to do that too. This is where I [00:57:00] got this, you know,
Riley: it's like he, he celebrates that man when I, when I
steal
Isaac: guys.
Riley: him. And
Isaac: Yeah. He's genuinely excited.
Yeah.
Riley: So Um 10th anniversary of your school.
You mentioned this to me. Um, man. 'cause you
Isaac: Thanks.
Riley: small business.
small business lasts years, three years.
Isaac: Yeah. If you make it to five, you're doing good, you know? Yeah. It's,
and it's definitely been a road, right? Like, uh, we've seen a lot of things, uh, learned a lot of things. We, I mean, we survived the whole COVID thing. We survived, um, multiple locations, you know, you know how that goes. But, um, yeah, just a lot of ups and downs, but everything is always on an upper trajectory for us.
So I, I feel very blessed and I don't feel like that's all due to me. I feel like that's due to my wife [00:58:00] primarily, and, uh, due to my team. But yeah, that's why we're still, here's
a group effort.
Riley: Yeah Well, again, for those who don't realize, I, I kind of mentioned this 10, 10 year anniversary. It's not like you're in your 10th year. This is today. We're,
Isaac: Yeah.
Riley: of September,
Isaac: We have a party tonight.
Riley: today So cool. Um. Listen, man. Switching gears here a little
Isaac: Yeah.
Riley: we're getting
up against an hour long here.
I, I wanna, I, I wanna ask you some lighter questions
if you
Isaac: No, you're good.
Riley: game
Isaac: you want to ask. I'm game.
Riley: when you hear the term goer in your salt, this is called the Go In Your SALT podcast, what comes to mind?
Isaac: I mean, and, and I, and I feel like we're kindred spirits on this. It's like everything, when I wake up in the morning and there's things that I have to do that day, um, it's [00:59:00] like a checklist of like the beginning of the day versus the end of the day. And it's like. I have a, I have a floor and a ceiling, things that absolutely I can't get lower than this.
It'd be great if I got to the ceiling and if I've, if I've met that in the middle somewhere, man, I, I've earned my pat on the back. I've earned my, my fist bump from my proverbial high five. And to me, that's, that's kind of the gist of like earning your salt and it's like you've earned kind of that, that street cred, that credibility and, and it goes right back into training.
And it can be a sport, it could be Jiu Jitsu, it could be anything. It's like if you put in the time and you put in the effort, uh, you'll get the result. And to me, that's earning your salt, like literally in that, in that sense.
Riley: well said, dude. You're gonna be, this is gonna be an easy podcast to pull clips from. Dude.
Isaac: Good.
Riley: Highlight reel here. Um, what's your favorite pastime outside of Jiu Jitsu? We talked about having these other hobbies, but what, what's your favorite outside,
Isaac: Oh [01:00:00] man. Um, I mean, obviously love hanging out with my family. Like I'm terrible at video games, but my kids love video games, so I love getting beat at video games by my children. So that's al that's also another humbling experience. Um, I'm a white belt for sure. Um, we like going outside. We like hand uh, camping and, and hiking and stuff like that, so that's always good if I can get outside.
Um, I love reading. I read a lot. Uh, even when I'm not reading a book book, if I'm driving somewhere, there's an audio book on. So those things are always, always in my mind and I try to, in the same vein, I'm try, I always try to find books. I try not to pigeonhole myself into like one type of book. It's like, okay, if they, if they, I, I don't like, uh, this last, uh, last couple months I've been reading like, uh, fantasy books.
'cause I don't read fantasy books. I don't read a lot of fiction books, so it's like, okay, I'm gonna make myself read these. And I actually really enjoyed it. But pushing myself outta that and always trying to learn something is always fun to me. Um, but yeah, reading's a big one. I love watching just random a [01:01:00] documentaries that dress my wife and that she's like, what are you watching?
I was like, I don't know. I'm watching this documentary on sushi. Or I don't know, whatever it might be. It doesn't even hardly matter because I love just seeing kind of behind the curtain into a world, not a big, into like true crime. I feel like I've had enough of that in my life, but like any kind of documentary is usually good for me.
But yeah, that's how I spend my,
Riley: Like, I'll watch the weirdest crap as
long as it's
Isaac: I love it.
Riley: that's kind of interesting.
Isaac: Super interesting. It's like, I, I watch this documentary, you might've seen it, but it's a, uh, it's called Hero Dreams of Sushi.
Uh, and it's all it is is about this old Japanese guy named Hero, and he has been making sushi for the last like 70 years. I don't know, something crazy. Um, and like people that apprentice under him, they start by washing the fish and they wash the fish for like five years before they're allowed to even try to make anything.
And it's, it's just wild. And when you go into his restaurant and they're in Japan, you don't, you don't order sushi. You just sit down. He makes you [01:02:00] sushi. So that level of, that level of just, uh, mastery was just so impressed with me. I sat there and watched that for two hours and was just incredibly impressed that all this little old man does is he goes home and he dreams of sushi and how to make it better, comes back and does it better the next day.
I'm like, that's so impressive that this guy's been doing this his whole life.
Riley: Japanese have something special there where
Isaac: Oh, absolutely.
Riley: on making Samurai swords and
Isaac: See, I would totally watch that. I would totally watch that.
Riley: start with just literally sand. They just scoop up sand and then they pulverize it by hand and then they run it through this, um, like this process to actually. it and float the, the iron up there. And then they, it's like it's all so intricate and it's so precise that.
it would take decades to learn.
Isaac: Oh yeah.
Riley: are just willing to sit through
and [01:03:00] do this tedious thing to, to learn these details that You can only master after, you know,
three
Isaac: You can't help but be impressed by that. Yeah. But any documentary like that, I'm just like, yeah, I'll sit down and watch that. A lot of times, like
I know it's like I and I, you know, you talk about like that high functioning a, DD, but it's like I always have to have like three things going at a time. So I'm probably like writing my lesson plan for Jiu Jitsu while watching a documentary, and I might have music going on in the other room.
It's like, I'm just floating. But that's how my brain works best. It's like, uh, even I, like, I'll go down and I'll, I'll, I'll be doing my workout, be lifting weights and I'm probably got my laptop out at the same time. And yeah, there's always like three things going on and drives my wife nuts because she's a hyperfocused so she can focus in and just, everything else just zones out and I have to have a lot of plate spinning to keep my brain going.
Riley: Oh that's so funny man The differences are, uh, Isaac, you mentioned you're a, mentioned you're [01:04:00] a big reader.
Okay
Isaac: Yeah.
Riley: a book that you would recommend everyone
Isaac: Oh man. Um, there's a swear in the title. Hope you're not offended, but it's the, the. I know I say that, I say that joking. Um, it's the subtle art of not giving a fuck.
ever read that?
Riley: I heard of that recently
Isaac: Yeah. And there's a, there's a follow-up book that's just as good. It's called Everything is Fucked, but they're both great.
Um, mark Manson is super good, super good book. But I, I got the book 'cause um, a few years ago I was going through cancer treatment and I was stuck in bed a lot. So, uh, I watched all the TV worth watching and then people would just give me books. I mean, and thank God they did 'cause it kept me busy. Um, but that was one of the books, uh, somebody gave me.
And I loved it because basically the premise is, um, you have a finite amount of things you can [01:05:00] care about, right? I only have so many fucks I can give. And you have to be careful where you divvy those out. So. Be mindful of what you're caring about and I can, I, if if something doesn't matter, we don't have time to care about it.
And I think that's a beautiful concept.
Riley: 'cause you're, you know, it's funny 'cause recently I was talking to a guy over coffee. We, we we're sitting down, we're talking and, and he's one of those tender hearted dudes that just kind of wants to. He wants to help with everything.
Isaac: Right. I get that. I feel that
Riley: a sphere where we can.
be effective. And if it's outside of that, someone else has to do that.
Isaac: Yeah.
Riley: facts of life.
Isaac: And and he probably feels that way 'cause he is a good person and I get that,
eh?
Riley: Talk a,
I had forgotten, and I apologize man, but you, you went through this cancer battle.
Isaac: Oh yeah. '
Riley: cause we talk about
thing [01:06:00] and it's just like, you know, all these cool business but this concept of everyone feels like the other guy's business is just a straight up arc.
Right? Or, you know,
Isaac: We all feel that way. Like, oh, they're doing so well and maybe they are, but
Riley: you you had this big speed bump of, of cancer. Man. Talk about that a little bit because, uh, you know, I wanna take a, a ton of time. let's
let's
Isaac: sure. '
Riley: cause I wanna know what that
like and how you kept the vision for everything else, especially where you're in a jiujitsu school and it's a very physical thing
Isaac: Right,
Riley: good.
Imagine
Isaac: Right, So it kind of hearkens back to what we were talking about earlier around surrounding yourself with a good team. 'cause without that team, without that support group, uh, one I wouldn't be here, but two, my school definitely wouldn't be here 'cause there was no way I was doing that on my own. Um.
When I started my treatment, like, because everybody's like, in the beginning they're always like, oh yeah, I'm gonna beat this. And it's good to be motivated like that. 'cause if once you break mentally, the, the physical goes with it. Um, but having people pumped for me [01:07:00] and cheering me on was super, super big.
Um, in the beginning, like it would 'cause you start out fairly healthy and I mean, chemotherapy is just, it's kind of kills you, but just enough and then brings you back. Um, so I would go teach jujitsu. I'd have a, a chemo pump, a bag, and I'd, I'd have that hooked up to me, uh, in a port in my chest. And I'd go teach jujitsu holding this chemo pump, which in hindsight was a horrible idea.
'cause that's, uh, if that spilled, that'd be so bad. That's a biohazard for sure. But, um, having a team that would help me do that and then the days where I just couldn't. They just took it and they just kept it going. So there was like that, that took a solid year of them just basically carrying it on their shoulders.
And my wife running a lot of the business side of it. And I would, on the day I felt good, man, we would go in and do it on the days I didn't, the team took over. And that's how that works. And if you think, [01:08:00] if you think you can go through an experience like that on your own, that is not the methodology you want.
Like you really need other people. And you, you start to look at the blessings that those people are in your life and you're like, we always value, like, oh, I'm a strong person. It's like I'm stronger if I can rely on other people. 'cause then, then I don't have to be do it all on my own. So we can always lift more together synergy.
Right. Um, but yeah, and there's a lot of, there's a lot of lessons back and forth. A lot of things that I got from one that helped me with the other. Um, my, my second chemo treatment, uh, I'm sitting there in my chemo chair and they're trying this cocktail of drugs. 'cause they always give you, um, a good grouping of, of drugs to try to, to quell your disease.
Um, but as soon as they put it in, I had this like weird feeling in my mouth and my tongue started swelling and I had this like massive allergic reaction to the drug they gave me, which is pumping directly into like an artery by my heart. And I had full [01:09:00] anaphylactic shock, just like shaking, crashing. Uh, they pulled the crash cart out and I'm like, I can't move all I can.
I'm like laying on my side shaking and I, all I can see is the crash cart, right? So I can see my heart rate, my blood pressure and I'm like, well we do this in jiujitsu all the time, right? I'm, I'm just stuck under neon belly. I better slow my heart rate down. And so I got my heart rate down. I did. I was like, and then that's all I could do.
'cause I couldn't move my body. And so I got my heart rate down to like the eighties and my blood pressure actually leveled off as they're like pumping me full of Benadryl and things like that. And I came back and the doc's like, dude, I don't know what you did, but whatever it was, it saved your life. So when I talk like jokingly about like, oh, Jiu Jitsu saved my life, it's like that's it really.
Literally did. And just like that mental side of it can carry you back. And it's the same way when I go back and I roll with somebody. When I roll with a guy half my age who's just beating the crap outta me, I'm like, I've had worse. I died once. It's cool.
Riley: it's [01:10:00] so funny because I tell people when they ask me like, well, you know, why do I do Jiu Jitsu? I'm, you know, I'm 48 years old and it's, you know, it's this, there's all these young guys who, you know, or these giant dudes that just like smash in your head. And,
Isaac: Right,
Riley: em the most valuable thing I've ever
is how to just be calm under real pressure.
I'm
Isaac: Yeah.
It makes everything else feel so easy.
Riley: it's funny because yeah, that. says that saved your life, and it was that exact thing. It's that stuck. You can't move your
Isaac: You can't.
Riley: watching this
monitor, realizing there's a big problem, but it's like, yeah, I've been here before.
Isaac: I've been
here before.
It's fine. You know, you get those inner mantras in your head like, and I mean if you need to say it out loud, say it out loud, but like I'll be, okay. I'll find an escape. I'll figure this out. And you just sit there and repeat that in your head.
Riley: man. That's cool. Dude, that's, That's a [01:11:00] nugget. There's the nugget right there. You've been listening to this thing for an hour and 10 minutes. That's your nugget.
Isaac: That's your nugget. That's what you waited for?
Riley: dude. So Crocs, the footwear, is that even Okay?
Isaac: Oh man. Hang on, hang on. I got mine on right now, so I got my Crocs right here.
It's okay.
Um. So like, it, it's kind of funny 'cause like I, I was kind of one of those, it was like Crocs, ugh. 'cause you know, like, I mean we came up wearing flip flops to Jiu Jitsu and everything like that. I was like, I never saw the need, never saw the point.
Um, but it was actually like, 'cause I have a lot of, you know, foot problems and stuff too from years of abuse on my feet. But, uh, it was actually my doctor who recommended them. He's like, you should just wear Crocs. He's like, anytime you can just wear your Crocs. He's like, then you're wearing a real shoe, but you can let your toes spread out and everything like that.
So minor, minor doctor recommended,
but I was talking trash on 'em for a long time.[01:12:00]
Riley: mode.
Isaac: Yeah,
they do. I never use it, but, you know,
Riley: Oh, goodness. Uh, okay.
I
Isaac: but my favorite, I think my favorite pair of, uh, my favorite pair of Crocs that I've seen. Um, you know, Thomas,
have you seen his Crocs?
Riley: No
Isaac: He wears, uh, he wears Buzz Lightyear Crocs, which is funny on a person who's like, you know, six two and 200 something pounds, jujitsu guy
cracks me up.
Riley: a picture of those buzz light
post in
Isaac: I could do that. '
Riley: yeah, I gotta see that crap.
Isaac: It's pretty funny.
Riley: of your life.
Isaac: Oh shoot.
Scariest moment of my life.
Riley: friend
Isaac: Yeah, I mean that's, that's a, that's a weird one in a sense 'cause it's like early on. Um, I remember getting my diagnosis with that. Like, uh, we [01:13:00] done run all the tests and all the things, and I'm sitting in a room, my doctor comes in and we know each other really well.
We've known each other for years, but he sits down and he's being as professional as he can. Right. And he sits down and, you know, very professionally tells me like, Hey, you're, you've got, you've got this cancer. And I, I, I just turned and looked to him and said, well, as long as I don't lose my hair. And my wife, my wife was so mad, she's like, you're making jokes right now.
I'm like, I don't know else to do this. So, um. But it was always like this acceptance. And I think this comes start, I think actually it actually started in law enforcement. 'cause you have to be okay with giving your life for something. And if you're okay with that, you've kind of wrapped your head around that.
It takes some of the scary out of it. It takes some of the fear out of it. So like the, there, I don't, I legitimately believe there's a, most cops aren't scared of death. That's not what they're scared of. Uh, they're scared of a lot of other things, but they're not scared of death. And I think that carried over into the cancer treatment too, where it's like, that didn't really freak me out.
'cause it's like, [01:14:00] okay, I, I know where my soul's at. I know I'm good with where, what I, who I am. And if this is the legacy I leave, great. That's fine. Um, but I think the scarier things for me are, um, just anything happening to the people I care about. Like, those are the scary moments for me. So like, um, like I just dropped my, my oldest son off at, at college, he's going to Idaho State University, which is only an hour for me.
Um. All the scary things I've been, I've been stabbed, shot at all these things. That was a scary moment for me 'cause I'm like, okay, hopefully I did my job right. Hopefully as a parent I did a good enough job to where he can go out and operate in the world as a junior adult and, and figure things out. Now granted, he's like an hour away, a phone call away, but that was still like probably one of the scariest things for me.
It sounds silly, but yeah. Stuff like that scares me more than, than the violence.
Riley: man, because we all have [01:15:00] those things, right?
I
Isaac: Yeah.
Riley: I don't do spiders
I'm much bigger. I've never lost a battle to a spider, but man,
Isaac: I feel you.
Riley: still
Isaac: Yeah.
Riley: then, like, you. know,
Yeah.
I don't know.
Isaac: It's those things, you know,
Riley: and
Isaac: we all have those things. Yeah. That freak you out.
Riley: you ever get kicked outta school?
Isaac: Oh, dude. Um, so like growing up, uh, like through elementary school, I, I was, I was actually homeschooled and then going, going to public school. I didn't go to public school till like junior high, so like seventh, eighth grade around there. And I had. I was not great at social interactions at that point in my life.
Like, like I'd done sports, like I'd done wrestling and everything like that, but that doesn't really give you a good beat on how to act socially in a normal setting. Um, so all I knew about like social interaction was sports, which doesn't always carry [01:16:00] over. And so I, I, throughout high school, I got in a lot of fights.
Um, got in a lot of trouble 'cause I, I genuinely love to have fun and less, I know it's hard to imagine, but I can be even less mature than I am now. And, uh, I would get into trouble in that sense. But yeah, like, uh, never, never anything like, you know, jail worthy, but, you know, stuff like that. I would always get kicked outta school for that.
So.
Riley: this is, this is
friends, man.
cause we can
Isaac: Exactly. You get it.
I feel like that's a, that's a degrading scale for sure. I
just, the, the longer things go on, the less I care. I'm like, ah, whatever.
Riley: it's back to the title of your book,
Isaac: Right, exactly.
Riley: what's something on your bucket list that you wanna, you wanna do before you cash it in?
[01:17:00]
Isaac: Oh man. One of the things that's definitely on my bucket list, I'd, I'd love to travel more. Like I've done a little bit of travel, but not, not compared to some, um, I've seen a lot of the us but I'd love to travel more internationally and just see the world. 'cause I, I love meeting new people. I love meeting people from other cultures.
Um, and I've found that with Jiu Jitsu, I have kind of a, a gateway, so to speak, to where you can get into those people and, and have a common bond, like right out the right out right. As soon as we get going. [01:18:00] Uh, so having something to talk to about people is good. But, um, just travel. I would love to travel more and just see the world.
I love that kind of stuff. Just meeting new people, trying new things. That's, that'd be a fun thing to do. Before we go,
before we check our button.
Riley: like to see
Isaac: Oh man, uh, Spencer. Spencer just went to Thailand this year and he came back with all these pictures and everything. It just looks beautiful. I'd love to go to Thailand.
I think that'd be a lot of fun. Um, yeah, places like that would be, would be a good time.
Riley: wanted to see like the castles and European castles, you
know
Isaac: Heck yeah.
Yeah. We took a trip.
Riley: New Zealand
Isaac: Yeah, yeah. Stuff like that. You get it. So yeah, just going places and going, like if you go to a place and doing like the quintessential thing for that place, I just wanna try it, you know?
Riley: 'cause dude, I am like exactly the opposite. If, if, if I went to Paris, the Eiffel Tower would be like the bottom of the list. There's so many other things I'd wanna [01:19:00] do,
you know
Isaac: Oh yeah.
Riley: pyramid Pyramids would be
Isaac: Pyramids would be cool. That would be cool
for sure.
Riley: I vacation over to Yellowstone and you know, I mentioned before I'm a fly fisherman and I, I was like, y'all go seal old, faithful. I've been there, done that. Don't care if I ever see it again,
but there's
Isaac: Right.
I know there is. Right over there.
That's fine.
I'll, I'll die happy.
Riley: yeah fact, I, I got into a situation down there where I was, I was fishing and all of a sudden I started hearing something in the, in the brush you don't know what's over there, right?
And
Isaac: Right.
Riley: time you'll like
but I'm, I'm fishing in the spot that's right by the highway, right? And dude, I'm getting in the fish, I'm catching some nice ones. And the road was above me. But all of a sudden this car just pulls over and stops. And I'm like, that's weird. Are they just watching me fish?
'cause guys do that all the time. They see fly fishermen out there, they'll come and watch you. But other than [01:20:00] another car, then another car, then another car. And all of a sudden they're just backing up, man. They're like a quarter mile long. The cars, I'm like, okay. They see an animal. Okay. And now I'm starting to question like, what is this animal?
Because I'm below and I can't see where the, what they're looking at,
Isaac: Turning
Riley: noticing all the cameras
at a, at a place, you know, and they're, as these cameras are pointing, I'm realizing whatever this critter is, it's right across the street from me and. I start wading downstream because I'm wanting to, I don't know what's coming over that hill. Something's coming over. I don't know what it is. Uh, could it be a moose, could it be a bear? Could it, you know, maybe it's a, maybe it's a coyote. I, I don't know what it is, but I don't wanna be there when it comes over. so I start hiking down the thing. Well, as I'm walking down river, are all pointing right parallel.
They're just right with me. So whatever's coming, it's following me where I'm,
you know
Isaac: No.
Riley: same, path.
down and I'm like, I don't even know what to do here, man. Do I cross the river and climb out the other side and, [01:21:00] and hope they don't come over here? 'cause most of these critters can cross the river too, know?
I, and uh, it got my heart rate up pretty good. And when I finally to the road and, and, uh, was able to get up and see what it, what it was, it was heard of a five or six elk, you know,
that
Isaac: Nice.
Riley: there
Isaac: Definitely not the worst option.
Riley: But man, it, it got me thinking. Huh, well, what's next for you, man? Where you, where are you going from here?
Isaac: Oh, shoot. Um, I mean, right now I'm, I'm pretty excited to, to do that 10 year anniversary thing that's gonna be tonight's party. Um, but always looking ahead and that's part of the, I don't know, but my, uh, my team always says, I'm always looking for work for them to do. But that's what, that's what it's all about.
It's like we're looking for the next project. Um, looking at doing some, some more work. I, I. Designed a program for, uh, the hospital here for their security program. And I mean, it's interesting. It'll [01:22:00] be interesting you as a Jiu Jitsu person, 'cause you take some, somebody that's working security in a hospital, they can't just punch people and drop them on their heads, like they're still in charge of their care.
So how do you control somebody without hurting them? It's like it's Jiu Jitsu. So I designed a program for them that's, uh, very fundamental about how to control somebody who, who's violent or outta control without hurting them. Um, but that was a lot of fun to do. Uh, I'm looking at doing some more hospitals and healthcare facilities like that.
Um, just expanding the business model to incorporate different components like that to where more revenue streams and more projects, but stuff like that.
Riley: people don't think about that.
happens in hospitals, right, is sometimes patients are, you know, not even purposefully doing
Isaac: Right.
Riley: hit in the head. There's like this
their normal self where they panic and yeah, bad things happen or it's drug induced or all kind of stuff that can happen.
But to be physical but not cause more damage. Than's already there. It's a big [01:23:00] deal.
Isaac: Yeah. Uh, and of course like we're, we're always looking for more jujitsu competitions. Um, we're, we're looking at the bigger, bigger batter ones too. Um, still involved with PGF, uh, managing athletes with EB and helping them as well. Um, I guess question for you is like, I'm sure you watch CJI and PGF and all those, what, what were some of your takeaways from all those, all these big events we've had lately?
think?
Riley: There's right? And
I'm
Isaac: there is.
Riley: get on board with the controversy,
you set up a certain rule set like CGI, for instance, the, the second one. Lot of, lot of people criticizing the lack of action, right? and the stuff that's going on there. Um, that's the rule set.
They were playing to the rule set. You know, they were doing what they had to do to win. There's a million dollars on the line. There's, it's a
Isaac: And if the roles reversed, they'd, everybody would be doing the same thing. They'd be gaming it [01:24:00] too. So,
Riley: we watched in the in the previous one, Luke Rockhold got all bent because you know, all these guard pullers and what's he do when he first walks into the round freak pulls guard, right.
Isaac: because you wanna win.
Riley: it's you're playing of the rule set,
Isaac: Yeah.
Riley: okay You know, I, I
of pulling guard. I I, I, I love the memes that criticize, guard pullers, but I'm
Isaac: I think of people, I.
Riley: guard in a
Isaac: I know when I think of people trashing on guard pulling, it's like, it really to me that says you, you can't pass guard. Like that's really what it means to me. Um, but yeah, I had the same feeling as far as the Jiu Jitsu goes. I'm like, man, they're just playing to their rules. Um, and, and they, because they're all high profile guys, right?
Like, uh, Chris Je a buddy of mine and, uh, everybody knows what Chris wants. Everybody knows what Chris is going for. They've all watched, so Yeah. And so they know what, what to avoid. And so it kind of stalemate a lot just because of how well these guys are [01:25:00] known. So I didn't have, I think I love watching Boon.
I think he's jiu-jitsu's, so smooth and clean and just stuff like that. So I didn't mind that at all. The only part that I thought was kind of blah was, uh, a lot of the, like the Renata Laja and Gabby Garcia, like they, if they could just take the mics away from those guys, it probably would've been great.
Riley: It's it's funny man because yeah, I get the character aspect of it. Craig Jones' walkout. I was like, I don't even see why you did that. Didn't. even make any sense to me at
Isaac: Didn't. It didn't.
Riley: that's
he is in
And so it
Isaac: know,
Riley: outta place for me. Um,
don't care if they can do what they want, you
Isaac: right.
Riley: on both sides of that. I
PGF was freaking amazing,
I think
Isaac: It's so good.
Riley: guys those guys have something very unique,
you know
Isaac: very special. And it's gonna grow.
Riley: of the weekly thing, I think makes sense in a lot of ways.
Isaac: I think it's better for the athlete.
Yeah. [01:26:00]
Riley: you know, the
that we had before was, you know, six days
You
Isaac: Yeah. Which was cool. Yeah, it was cool. 'cause it was like an iron man. Right. It's like, okay, who's gonna last?
I don't wanna see my friends get hurt.
Riley: Right And I
actually
Isaac: Sure.
Riley: better Um, if I'm, if
however
Isaac: it too.
Riley: also creating some buzz with athletes that were like, it's too much. The risk of me getting hurt and it affecting the rest of my career
Isaac: Right. It's costing them money.
Riley: wanting
Isaac: Yeah.
Riley: part too.
Isaac: Yeah.
So I get why they did it. I mean, it was cool in a sense, like you had to be super gritty. Like you had to be a dog to get through that. 'cause a lot of guys didn't finish the week. So I do miss that. In a sense it
Riley: like like Kyle Ba right When he he bails out that last week. And there's part of me who's like, man, why are you doing that? But then, you know, when, when you hear his side of it
it's like,
Isaac: makes sense,
Riley: have a [01:27:00] shot at making
but only a shot and these are world-class guys here and I'm already hurting, and I've got these other competitions set up that it wouldn't take much to put me outta all of those.
Isaac: right Then it's costing you lots of money.
Riley: it
Isaac: I get it. And I think it's a good model for the future and for the athletes, like, because you look at what they're doing and they're building teams, they're building franchises to where like, that's always been the dream. It's like, how does a jujitsu athlete make a living
what they love?
And that that's the model. That's how we do it.
Riley: I, I think what, um, both of those events, uh, CJI and, and Mc Catherine's the PGF there. They're changing the industry, right? They're, they're really
Isaac: Yes,
Riley: on its head. It's
I love talking to Brandon 'cause he's
like
we were
Isaac: dude,
Riley: about earlier, you know, sometimes
making crap up as we go.
He's just making crap up as he goes. [01:28:00]
It's well thought
Isaac: but it
Oh, it's well thought through. And he thinks so fast. He thinks so fast, and he's just boom, boom, boom idea after another and, and, and a solid guy, I love bmac to death.
Riley: that's a great dude. Hopefully one day I get to have him on here. Um, awesome dude. Well, listen, gonna wrap it up. I, uh, I am super honored that you came on here. Is
really
Isaac: my pleasure.
Riley: the
the more I realized why we get along so
cause I
Isaac: I know, right?
Riley: we, we think
Isaac: So much
Riley: But
Isaac: spirits for sure.
Riley: Isaac, Go Earn Your Salt, my friend.
Isaac: Will do.
[01:29:00]