Mike: [00:00:00] when your back is up against a wall, like, and you have no choice, every decision you make leads towards actually making traction in accomplishing your goals.
Riley: today I have Mike Howell, the owner of Wild Things Coffee, Meridian, Idaho, and several other locations also. Um, I, I invited Mike on the program today because he's got a just a cool business story and I, I, I've got to see the beginnings of this and kind of watch it grow. Um, we're jujitsu buddies from back in the day, and, and so [00:01:00] that's where we got to know each other originally, and, and I wanted you guys to hear Mike's story. So Mike, welcome to the show, man.
Mike: Thanks, appreciate you offering to have me.
Riley: Oh, dude, I'm so excited to talk to you. So, tell us about yourself, man. Who are you? Where'd you grow up? What'd life look like as a kid?
Mike: Yeah. So I grew up a military brat, uh, traveled around, I'd say traveled, quoting fingers. I was toted around or dragged around, I guess, uh, around the Midwest. For the early part of life. My dad was in the Air Force, so he was kind of first in for last out situation with Desert Storm. And so late eighties, early eighties.
Born on a military base in South Dakota, lived there for a while, lived in Nebraska for a while, and then we kind of eventually settled in the northwest and Washington and Oregon was the final stop. And that's where I went to school, college. And then after that, during COVID and my adult years, ended up moving to [00:02:00] Idaho in the midst of COVID.
And that was probably four, five years, probably five years ago now. And I don't think you could pay me enough to leave Idaho. I love it here. It's awesome.
Riley: I agree, man. It's a great place to live. Mike, talk about you're, you're a coach. You coach
Mike: Yep.
Riley: and what's that? What's that like in your world? Man, I, I'm, I'm, I have some coaching questions here 'cause I know that's an art form all in itself, right?
Mike: Yeah, it is for sure.
Riley: you talk about that a little bit? How long you been doing that and what's, what drew
Mike: Um, so I, when I was in high school, I did not have. The best of coaches? Like, not, not holistically, not, not the entire staff was bad, but there were some coaches that I didn't think were like, I don't think they were doing it for the right reason. So it was just, you know, there wasn't much development as a young man.
There wasn't [00:03:00] much caring about as a young man. And, and I didn't, I grew up in a, a home. It was, I would say probably not, I don't know about average, but it wasn't uncommon where my parents split up when I was a little bit younger. So I had a stepdad and it left me with a little bit of like, not a, I had a strong male figure, but because of the split and things like that, it was just a lot of ambiguity and kind of confusion probably looking back on it that I didn't realize at the time.
And so you hear the stories all the time, the cliche stories that the coaches or coaches offer that, that figurehead in kids' lives. And so as I got a little bit older in college and as I was trying to figure out my way after college, I realized that coaching was something that I'd be super interested in being around, but not because of that, but because of it was the sport.
And then took me a couple years to realize that it was because of like connecting with kids, helping 'em get better, improve as young men. So it kind of, the stuff that we've talked about in the [00:04:00] past, like eye contact, shaking hands, presenting yourself, well, taking care of business. And so I've been, I've been a coach, this'll be my.
19th season I'm entering. I've spent some time doing track, but all of those years being football. And I've been blessed to have a pretty successful career. Not as a head coach, but you know, probably count on one hand how many seasons I've been losing seasons, if you will. So, um, it's a lot of fun. I love doing it.
It's kind of my hobby. It's the thing that keeps me sane and grounded, even though it's a huge time commitment. It's really a lot of fun and I really, really enjoy it at my core as a person. And there's a lot to learn too. And I'm sure that you'll follow, have follow up questions, but, uh, there's a lot that I've pulled from coaching that leans into business side of things.
Riley: Well, let's, um, yeah, I want, I want you to, [00:05:00] before we go into that, 'cause I do wanna talk about that relationship between coaching and business development, right? Because it, you are developing a team in a business just the same as you're developing a team in a, on a field, right? But when you're, when you're, you used the word coach, what's the difference between maybe a coach and an instructor? I've had some guys on here differentiate between that and I'd love to your thoughts on it.
Mike: I don't think there's any difference. I think, um.
Actually, I take that back. There is a difference, but in my opinion, it's not what people think. I think coaching has a lot more variability in the words and language that you use. So I really like to nerd out on communication, body language, verbiage, like the words that you use to get what you want or the result that you need to get out of somebody.
I think there's a [00:06:00] greater variability in the language that you need to use in coaching. I also think that the end result is, obviously the end result is different than teaching, but like in teaching, you pass a test, that's the result, right? Or if you can regurgitate information, that's the result. In coaching, there's a lot more diversity to it because it, just because you score touchdown or you hit a home run or you switch a three, does not mean that you, like, there are a lot of a-holes out there that are really good at sports, but when the sport ends, which it will at some point, it just changes depending on how good you are.
What kind of human being are you gonna be? What kind of husband are you gonna be, what kind of wife are you gonna be? So teaching is, are you able to regurgitate the information? Can you take what you learned and apply it? And within that there are good teachers and there are bad teachers. So can a teacher get you enthusiastic and excited about what you're gonna learn, [00:07:00] whether that's math, science, history, whatever.
And the same thing goes for the coaching, right? It does the te does the coach get you enthusiastic or excited to be a part of a greater purpose to represent the team, to represent the community, to be proud to wear the logo on your shirt or on your jersey. Uh, but when you distill it all down, I don't think there's much of a difference.
How you get to it, I think is different. But I mean, you're really teaching a skill and teaching something at the end of the day.
Riley: You sound like you're, um, I guess what it brings to mind, like we've all had that teacher who you can tell is just regurgitating a thing there's no, there's no input. I could care less if, if it changes your life as a person. just. Just shoving information out there. I talked to a guy yesterday, he's an arborist, right? he, he trims trees for a living cut. You know, that's, that's what he does. And they have to do continued education every year. They have to [00:08:00] get re-certified. And, and he was talking about a class that he had just taken that was, you know, this full day worth of classes and just how mind numbing it was because, and that's kind of what he said.
He's like, the person there was not a, was not a coach. He wa it was just regurgit, just repeating. And you could tell he'd repeated the same class every day this week and probably every day for the last 10 years. You know, he was just so and he, he, that's how he talked. And so when you're talking about, you know, developing people's character and teaching 'em what kind of human being they're gonna be after the sport ends, yeah.
I feel that, dude, that's, that is the
Mike: Yeah,
Riley: a coach and a, yeah. Just as somebody teaching you a fact.
Mike: I, well, I, I call it like engineeringly speaking. I, it's called like, I think it's called backend design. So instead of, instead of approaching it through the lens of what's the problem, you approach it through, like, what do I want to have happen? Like, [00:09:00] what's the result I'm looking for? And then you design the question for the answer that you, you're looking for.
So, um, like that's one of those things where in an, in a situation where I'm teaching or coaching or, or like even at the coffee shop, it's, Hey, this is what we're going for, so this is how you do it, but you need to recognize that you might run into this and this is how you solve this problem. This, these are things to take into consideration.
So like, if I'm going through the lens of football, it's like, Hey, we're trying to set the edge and squeeze this, and I know I'm losing people, but the, the point that I'm trying to make will come home. I'm trying to set the edge and squeeze this. This is what you might run into. But the end of the day, I don't really care.
Like I could teach you this, but at the end of the day, this is what matters. Setting the edge, like whether you're wrong, arming, squeezing, setting, striking and squeeze, [00:10:00] like it doesn't matter as long as you're doing this because that's your responsibility. So I would say that teaching is probably the same way.
Like, like, um, you know what, what's important to know about the Civil War? Well, it was, it was trying to keep the, the union as a unified body for economic strength and like unity and politic political strength in the, in the world. So by all means, and any cost is that, that, like, that's the result we're trying to go for, which, you know, if I'm going down the, the nerd road, like that's why, that's why Grant was able to, to win it, because he realized that like, there's gonna be an extreme cost to do this, but it's worth the cost.
So anyway, I think it's more important to teach what you're trying to have happen as a result of the teaching, rather than trying to teach the answer or the regurgitate it, if you will.
Riley: That's pretty cool. You're, uh, you're hitting on some, [00:11:00] some things going around. It's funny 'cause this is not a Jiujitsu podcast, but there's some stuff going around in the Jiujitsu Meadow that talks a lot about the end result. You know, and we can
Mike: Yeah. Yeah.
Riley: but the end result is what matters.
You know, can I, can I do a certain technique? Well, great. But if all it is is a technique and there's no context to it, then you've just lost, lost that student or you know, they're
Mike: Yeah.
Riley: it. Right.
Mike: That's probably what, when I was doing jiujitsu heavily, that's probably what a lot of my conversations with those black belts and oak brown belts was all about. It's like, and mind you may, you might even be able to recall some moments where we had conversation like that where it's like, Hey, don't gimme the roadmap.
'cause the roadmap's not always gonna be there. Like when you're on Apple Maps and you're driving around that, that thing like adjusts to where you're at. It's never a static situation. It's always dynamic. 'cause things are always gonna change and you can never tell what your opponent is gonna do. Like you can never tell what a guest is gonna do at the coffee shop.
So you have to be prepared to be able to adjust and pivot [00:12:00] on that. 'cause you can't stop them and be like, hold up, you need to get into this position. 'cause this is how I know it.
Riley: yeah. It's funny 'cause when we, when all a student sees or a, or an athlete sees, is. A move or a specific situation, and then they get into a live, you know, game time, time situation. And that exact thing doesn't come up. They don't recognize it, you know, or the,
Mike: Hmm.
Riley: it's a variable at all, they won't recognize it.
If all you teach is the, is the move, but gotta
Mike: Sure.
Riley: leading up to it and what, you know, what it looks like, how to prepare for it, how to was what you're saying, you know, having these, yeah, here's what, here's what the kind of general move is, but here's several different ways that think can appear. that's an art form man. So have you, have you, have you formally studied? Like have you, have you, what am I trying to ask you here? There's a lot of books and stuff on coaching and teaching, [00:13:00] um, and how to be better at that. Do you, do you spend much time in, in that world or have you learned more by experience?
Mike: I do, yeah, you can probably see two stacks of books right here. Um, I've read almost all of those. Uh, I'm an, I'm a pretty avid reader. Um, not, not how to coach, but the language to use to make coaching more effective. Yes. Um, and how to teach, if you will. So how do you make connection? How do you make things hit and land and stay the where like it's all about?
So one of the things I've picked up over the years is communication, which is really all teaching and coaching is, and this is something that I use at the coffee shop and something that I use in coaching is, it's not what you say, it's, it's not what the communicator says, but what the communicate hears.
So. [00:14:00] When I communicate with somebody on the team or when I communicate with an athlete that I'm working with and it doesn't hit, or it doesn't land the right way, it's not up to them to understand it, it's up to me to recommunicate that in a way that they, that will land with them. So that's when you use things like examples and connection and you rely on the personal relationship that you have with that in individual.
So if I'm working with a, like right now at the coffee shop we have, we have somebody who is a horse trainer and we, Eric and I are kind of operating under this side because we're looking for people to train as we open the other stores. And we think that she would probably be a pretty good trainer because she has the patience to work with a 1500 pound animal and [00:15:00] repeat cues and repeat ideas and repeat concepts, and she'll be able to adjust on the fly how she communicates, because she has the skill to be patient and to like understand that like in order to teach an animal, it's what the end result is, not how you're teaching them.
So. But like it's, when you're teaching and communicating, whether it's jujitsu, football, soccer, coffee, you have to be able to adjust how and what you're saying so that it lands the right way. And you use that through your spidey sense in your relationship with the person and making connections with them based on who they are and what they're about.
So if another good example to drive this home is if somebody is a mathematical person, I am not going to say, you need to adjust just a little bit, or you need to adjust or take a step this big. [00:16:00] You would rather say something like, you need to move your elbow about three inches in this direction. You need to take a six to eight inch step.
You need to give 'em those hard definable. Whereas if you said something like that to somebody who is not a math person, their brain is just gonna like explode because they're gonna want to see it and they're gonna want to experience it, rather than just understanding because you gave them a quantifiable number or a distance or something hard coded or definable, if you will.
Riley: I've, I've run into that a lot. That exact thing, man. I've got, I'll look at groups of students and, you know, I can think of a couple. They're, they're mechanics, right? They work on of equipment, so in their head, everything's mechanical. And so I have to teach those guys different than I do. The tattoo artist too has the artist mind, you know, and they're so abstract and they, they don't need angles and degrees and of levers and that kind of a thing.
They need the art part of
Mike: Yeah.
Riley: and honestly, I [00:17:00] struggle with that a little bit because I'm a, I'm a mechanical minded person. know, anything that's physical and mechanical makes sense to me. I, I do my sport, like I'm building a bridge, dude. And, and
Mike: Mm-hmm.
Riley: these artists are looking at me like, you quit?
Like, just give us something that's easier here. Something we can, and their, their stuff to me feels like a nebulous cloud, you know? And so I have to be, I have to learn that. And it's tough sometimes to
Mike: Yeah.
Riley: switch outside of my brain and think, okay, how are these guys seeing it? Yeah.
Mike: Yeah. I, I think you can notice that too, in the way, like, I've noticed it with, uh, just the instructors. Like if you think about some of the instructors at the gym, like you're very technical, whereas like Derek is very technical. Derek's one of the teachers at the gym, but not in the same, not in the same space.
Like, he's a lot more like abstract with it, which is probably why you get, like he sneaks up on you with that kind of stuff. But anyway, yeah, [00:18:00] you can notice it if you're, if you're paying attention to it and you're, if you're, um, like present or at, as at the coffee shop, he would say, be where your shoes are at.
If you're present, where you're at. And you're paying attention to it, you can notice that stuff just in the way that people talk and the way that they do things and perform tasks.
Riley: Yeah. Recognizing I think people's strengths and the way they learn is a, the sign of a good, good coach or teacher, you know? And then, um, it's funny because I'm starting to really pick up the more people I talk to in that coaching space or in the instructor space, I'm picking up that there, there really is a difference.
And it's, but it's, they, they overlap so much that sometimes it's hard to tell where one starts and the other begins. Right.
Mike: Yeah. Yeah. I would, I mean, it's probably no different than like, um, I've listened to some MMA guys talk, like MMA coaches talk and they, the thing that I listened to when I was in my gym [00:19:00] owning days, how, like one of the common themes was that the successful MMA coaches are the ones that can teach fluidity from one discipline to another.
So when you can seamlessly transition from judo to Juujitsu or from judo to boxing, that's like, those are the most successful guys.
Riley: Yeah, there's some kind guys that just understand body mechanics and they can
Mike: Hmm.
Riley: it to any, yeah.
Mike: Yeah.
Riley: you, um, a few years ago here, and I'm, I'm trying to remember dates and you'll know 'em 'cause it's you, but when did you start to go down this coffee road?
Mike: Coffee is woven into the DNA of our marriage. So we met at a coffee shop, and Erica has worked pretty consistently [00:20:00] through life at, at a coffee shop in some capacity, whether it was, you know, in the typical like teenage years high school, like that kind of age, working in a, as a barista or managing or opening.
And we have, um, originally when we first got married, it was kind of like always this idea of like, oh yeah, we'll open a coffee shop one day. It was just like one of those things that we talked about that was kind of the vision or dream, if you will. And then few fast forward from the beginning of our marriage, we moved to Idaho and we had a, a family friend who was our original business partner.
We were kind of sitting around one day and just like, Hey, we should open a coffee shop. Everyone ha ha ha. Okay. Yeah. What would that look like? And then conversations just kind of, you know, as you, as you have conversations and ideas ideate themselves and plans developed, it kind of came to fruition over a [00:21:00] few months.
And then. Uh, I knew a of a graphic designer and kind of brand specialist from my time as a coach at the college level, and we met with him few iterations. We got the wild things logo and some branding kind of guidelines. And it slowly kind of snowballed itself until we opened wild things. But I would say that the idea of it, so the vision has been long in long, like very, very long term in the works, like 15, 16 years.
The actual idea and what today, like what the Treasure Valley knows of, of Wild Things. Coffee today has probably been four or five years.
Riley: Where'd you come up with that name? What's, what is wild things
Mike: So, uh, the, our two boys. [00:22:00] So it's kind of a combination. It's a melting pot of love for animals, love for outdoors, and our families love for the book where the wild things are and the original iteration of Wild Things. Not many people know this. The original iteration for Wild Things was more like your, um, like your a stream silver camper.
Actually, I take that back. Before that, it was before the name Wild Things came about. It was, uh, almost like a. Fifties, like Pinup Girl style brand. And then it turned into more of an outdoor campy camping style with the Silver Arrow trailer and or streamline trailer. And then some of our earlier logos were very like outdoorsy, uh, like National Park style.
And then it kind of molded itself and shifted to now it's more of an outdoorsy, like wildlife theme. So a lot of our [00:23:00] logos are elk, uh, Eagle Dog. Um, we've got a Sasquatch in the works. We've got some fly fishing stuff in the works. Um, but yeah, I mean at the end of the day, it's really from a love for outdoors camping and animals.
Riley: I, I love that you've got a Sasquatch going in there.
Mike: Yeah. A lot of people are super excited about that, to be honest. Like, we'll make announcements to like potential owners and the team and stuff at our, at 10 Mile shop and they're like, oh, that's awesome. Like we, we dropped a bear a few weeks ago and they're like, it's, it's a sweet logo, but we're, the team can't wait for stickers and to get some merch with it and stuff.
Riley: It's pretty fun, man. I got this secret desire to one day to, you know, I hope, I hope we discover Sasquatch. I think that'd be the coolest thing ever.
Mike: Yeah, same. Agreed. Couldn't agree more.
Riley: Yeah. It's like, I'm not sure I, I, uh, think it is actually a thing, but if it [00:24:00] was, I sure would be happy to see one
Mike: My best friend Jordan, he's got some pretty deep theological thoughts on, on, uh, Sasquatch. It's, yeah, he's, he could talk for hours about it for sure.
Riley: It's funny, I've got a buddy who does that every year. He'll go back to these camps and spend two weeks and they go out and explore and try to find, find Sasquatch. Been doing it for 20 years and he's
Mike: just a thing.
Riley: Yeah, it's fun. It's fun to talk to him. He's, he's, he's really in that game. Um, so talk to, talk about this man.
You, you, you start going down this path of this kinda long. Long term, um, idea of a coffee shop. You choose this business name, something very personal to you, but then it's time to actually pull the trigger on it. And you guys, you guys took an interesting step at the beginning where you, you did it more as a little kiosk type, right?
Um,
Mike: Mm-hmm.
Riley: the, I don't know what to [00:25:00] call that. It was a, basically it's a, it was a, a
Mike: It was a trailer. Yeah. That we put a facade around to make it look permanent or kiosky. So people were, 'cause we were fielding the question like, are you moving, are you leaving? Because it was a trailer. Right. And so we put the facade up so people would recognize that we weren't going anywhere.
Riley: yeah. so talk about that. 'cause that was your, sometimes people get the, this impression man, that when you, when it's time to start a business, you need to go big, right? It, this, this huge, but you guys use that as a stepping stone 'cause that's no longer a thing, right? But you use that as a stepping stone to get this sailing. Will you talk about that from your perspective?
Mike: Yeah, yeah. I'll talk, I'll talk about it right up to kind of, I'll talk to about it right up to where we started opening other shops. So we started, this was not the original idea, um, it just kind of like naturally wove itself into fruition. But the [00:26:00] idea was to open a coffee shop and commercial real estate, if you don't know, moves at a snail's pace.
And so we were up against that. We had funding that we were like bootstrapping out of our own bank account, but it was only like half of what we were gonna need to actually get into something. And because we were kind of building the airplane as after jumping or like building the air, parachute, after we jumped outta the plane, there was a little bit of like, we're willing to take some risk.
But not really willing to take that much risk. So it kind of naturally wove itself or kind of came to fruition that it was gonna be a trailer. So then how do you get a trailer? Well, you either have to build one or you gotta buy one. And we didn't like what we saw in the marketplace, which believe it or not, there's a fairly large market for food trucks slash coffee trailers, but we couldn't really find anything that we liked, so we ended up building one and we over-engineered the hell out of it.
So it wasn't [00:27:00] really something that we could like travel from spot to spot. So we found, uh, a church annex parking lot and we ended up negotiating something with the church there that wouldn't hurt their tax status and they benefited from, and we benefited from. So we parked it there and we were there for about three and a half months.
And there was some things that happened in the church. Um, I don't think it was, I could be wrong. I don't think it was anything of, like, anything that we did, but we were asked to leave and we were left for about three weeks without anywhere to serve coffee from until we found a, the, our current 10 mile location, which is right next to Shields.
And then we were there for about two years. We had some pretty grand, uh, plants to grow. Just didn't know really how to facilitate them and didn't have the muscle to do it and maybe could have finagled the finances. But there were just a lot of key things that we just didn't know and we didn't feel comfortable taking on as a challenge.[00:28:00]
And then, uh, finally we had our bi, our business partner, previous business partner. He sold his half to kind of an in investor, I guess he's got some long-term plans. He has some things that he wants to accomplish by through purchasing his half of wild things and, um, kind of rejuvenated some excitement in life.
And he had the financial and the, like, the support that we needed to grow. And so that's when we launched our franchisee or licensee to franchise program. Um, probably mid to late 2025. And that's our current kinda light. Like what currently, what wild things looks like.
Riley: Well talk. Talk about this transition, man. 'cause you know. You and I talked briefly during that time when the, the lease space that you had for the trailer ended or was about to, and I think you had a little bit of [00:29:00] heads up on that, but dude, there was some panic time in there. Ran. Will you,
Mike: Yeah.
Riley: will you go a little deeper into that and kind of what, what I'm
Mike: Yeah.
Riley: at here is, is we do have a lot of business owners that listen to this podcast and it's that sometimes we feel all alone, right?
We have these emergencies happen or we have these uproot or these unexpected events that hit us and, you know, what was that like for you? What was that experience like? So, so these guys all know they're not alone.
[00:30:00]
Mike: Yeah. So, um, this is actually, this is, yeah, so in my younger years, so even before the coffee shop, I've owned several businesses. I was at email marketing and digital consultant for a while, which is where I've developed a little bit of a marketing background. I owned a gym for a while and then, um, uh, athletic apparel company, which technically I still own.
I'm just, it's kinda on pause 'cause of the coffee shop. In my younger years, I felt so protective of the brand, the market, what we stood for, who [00:31:00] we were, that I do, I kind of, kind of kept it close to the chest and I didn't want anybody touching it. And so there was some alienation of resources or like we alienated ourselves and put ourselves in an island and neglected to take on or help or acknowledged that there were resources out there or people that wanted to come alongside of us and help.
And what I felt was that it was somebody, like, I felt like if we brought someone in to help, it was gonna be like a relay race. Like a relay track race where I was handing the baton off and then I had to trust them to take it. The baton being the, the company, the brand, and then finish the race when in actuality what it is I grew up is what it was.
And I matured as a business owner and I realized that no, no, no, it's not a baton, it's not a relay race. It's inviting somebody into the row boat with me so that we can all row in the same [00:32:00] direction. So looking back on it, this is not necessarily how I would've done it, but this is what we ended up doing is we found somebody that had a bottom dollar opportunity for a lease space, which ended up being a whole mess in of itself.
But ultimately what we did is we approached it with like a let's bet on ourselves and just understand that the sweat equity will make us not fail. Even though this wasn't an ideal location. And if you've been to wild things and uh, in Meridian next to Shields, you know that it's small, it's cramped, there's no seating.
It's horrible to get to. The parking's not very good. It's just a challenge to get into. You can put it into your maps and still not get to wild things. And so we've absolutely. Out kicked our coverage because of the sweat equity, the marketing and the effort that we put into [00:33:00] for awareness where we're at, what we stand for, and we actually put it like, make it intentional to stand out by standing up for something.
Um, but again, looking back on it, if I were to advise a younger me, I would not. Like you are not alone. You can invite people in who will help you row the boat in the direction you want to go. You just have to be willing to understand that there are engagements and relationships that can be mu mutually beneficial for both.
So one of, like, we have a relationship with, uh, it's a company called Supercar Boise. It's a sister company and it's exotic car rentals. So like Ferrari's, Lamborghinis, and uh, G wagons, like just for rental, for whatever you want. Like if you wanna drive it up to Tamarack or if you wanna take your wife on a date, things like that.
And they do their pickup and drop offs at wild things. So the benefit there [00:34:00] is they have a place to pick up and drop off that's central, right next to the highway. Our baristas get preferential treatment when it comes to getting a ride in the car or renting the car cars. And we have customers from them that come in and order coffee while they're waiting for the car or while they're dropping off the car.
So it's a mutually beneficial situation. And so, like I jokingly tell people, like it's a pretty blessed situation when our baristas walk by a brand new Lamborghini and it's just another Tuesday for them. Like how many people do, you know, can say that not be phased by a $400,000 car sitting in the driveway?
Right. So a young, a younger me would, would absolutely advise. Like there are relationships out there, there are people out there that wanna see you succeed. And typically it's other business owners. You just have to know how to make the, like, you have to be open to learning how to make relationships beneficial for both parties and [00:35:00] not be so protective and just understand it, like it's not gonna be damaging to your brand or company if you invite somebody in to be a part of it.
Riley: I remember a story and I, it's killing me 'cause I don't remember the gal's name, but she was, she wanted to be part of a McDonald's franchise, right. And the way she got that done was by purchasing a Greyhound bus franchise. Did you ever hear that story?
Mike: I think, uh, it sounds familiar. I can't, I can't think of anything specific about it, but it does sound familiar.
Riley: But she put it right
Mike: I.
Riley: And so the people would come in on the busloads of people at a time and go eat at the, at the restaurant. Right. And
Mike: Mm,
Riley: I think it was McDonald's anyways, but that was the idea was like, let's, let's bring these two kind of unrelated businesses together as a, and then put the other one there as a, as kind of a feature or a benefit for these, these, these bus travelers to, oh man, here's something to eat.
You know? Right
Mike: mm-hmm.
Riley: across the street and [00:36:00] or walk next door and have a, have a burger. You know? And so it boosted one, boosted the other. And that
Mike: Yeah,
Riley: it kind of sounds like what you're saying, right?
Mike: a little bit. Yeah. Like what we found. So when we, after we moved into our current location, um, we sold our trailer 'cause we had no use for it at the time. And so then we sat probably for about a year and a half without a trailer. And then just last, last spring, we got a smaller one. Like we got, we bought one.
And what we found out really quick was by stepping outside of our, like our own, like, oh, we're the greatest thing, right? You have to step out and objectively look at it. We found that the trailer, we'll make events better. But it's not gonna be the thing that people go to an event for. So like we could not have a coffee event and be the reason that people show up.
But what we could do is through great coffee quality conversation and fantastic hospitalities, we could make an event better. [00:37:00] So once you learn your place, to your point about the, like the partnership being next to the wild, like the McDonald's and things like that, like McDonald's benefited from the Greyhound bus business and vice versa.
So we found, like, just like I said, we found that if we can partner with events and go make their event better, then we were gonna reap the benefit. They were gonna reap the benefit, and they probably want us back for other events. So just recognizing that, you know, there's, like I said, there's partnership and there's benefit to having those relationships.
Riley: That's pretty cool, man. So you, you still kind of have that a mobile arm of your company that can reach out and,
Mike: Yeah.
Riley: be part of the community in different ways. It's
Mike: That's the purpose of it. Yeah.
Riley: man. It's so interesting to see that. Step by step, uh, realization of different niches, you know, and see. It's like, well, we had a trailer that kind of [00:38:00] fizzled with that lease going out. And then we found that, uh, location that was a physical brick and mortar location and then back adding the trailer back in.
Right. And having that, that's cool to me. I, I kind of geek out on that sort of a thing.
Mike: In the mix of it, you don't get to see and appreciate it, but like looking back on it now, that like having some time under the belt and looking at it is, it is kind of cool to see it. For sure.
Riley: Yeah. It reminds me back, with all my businesses, right? But with, with my mobile oil change company, it took me a little while to get my feet under me and to really understand who my customer was. And once I did and was, it kind of went through several iterations and I had to, I really designed the company with some, some original kind of core values, ideas about what I wanted to be.
But then that ended up kind of funneling down into the type of customer that I could serve best.
Mike: Hmm.[00:39:00]
Riley: once we determined that it took, it, it really took about a year and a half for us to where I really went, you know what? I think this is who, we need to really focus on. Man, it changed the business.
All of a sudden our messaging became clear and our, our value prospect became very clear and, and it became much easier to build systems around that. yeah, man. Uh, super interesting to yeah, hear how you guys have kind of taken those steps. So, uh, I want you to talk now the, go
Mike: I was gonna build on that, if you don't mind.
Riley: Yeah, go for it.
Mike: Um, our, our, the experience inside the coffee shop has gone through something similar that you, you had talked about there. Like when we realized what really mattered to the people that walked through the door, it took a, a similar firm that you're describing, we really able to zero in and focus on it and get, I like, almost like a laser focusing rather than just saying, oh, [00:40:00] here we're just a coffee shop.
We're able to get really laser focused with it and be like, no, no, no. Coffee's what we do. It's not what we serve.
Riley: When you're discussing detail there, man, who, who did you finally narrow down and what, what were some of the pain points that you saw? I know we discussed this a little bit off air, but on air
Mike: Mm-hmm.
Riley: What were some of the things you were seeing in the coffee world?
Mike: Um, so hospital, so when we first opened, it was for the purpose of just delivering great qual like high quality coffee because the hard water in the Treasure Valley from all the development just ravages the coffee. So we go through pretty intentional and a lot of like, we're very intentional with a lot of effort into, um, soft water filtering it.
We triple filter it, so it goes through like a small, a small process within. [00:41:00] Before in the shop, before it makes it to the machine. So we opened with the idea of like, Hey, we're gonna just deliver just phenomenal high quality coffee. But then what we found is that it, that's not why people were coming in.
They were coming in because of how not we, not lucky, but we hired the right people early on. So they were really hyper nice. They were very caring. They were very genuine. And so people came in for the quality coffee. But probably just within six to months to a year, it ended up we recognized really fast that it was because of how people were treated when they came in.
So if you look at our Google reviews now, I think, I think the 10 mile shop is at like 340. And I think last time I checked over 250 of them, I think it's 270 something reference specifically how [00:42:00] friendly the staff is or how friendly the staff was in their experience there. So what we've done is now if you are a, I've like, I don't know if you've read Art of War.
But in the first chapter, they talk about the rules of engagement. The way that you win a battle or a war is by changing the rules of engagement to favor you and your circumstance. So we thought, okay, we don't have a drive through. We don't have a whole lot of seating, so we can't compete with Starbucks, we can't compete with Dutch brothers, and we're not fast because we don't have, like, they're just the way that we're set up.
We just can't be fast. So again, we can't compete with Starbucks, we can't compete with the Dutch brothers, we can't compete with like some of these larger local chains. So how do we redefine the rules of engagement? Well, we can intentionally be hospitable and genuine with our conversation. So as a part of that, we've changed the way that we approach serving coffee.
And now it's like the coffee is still really, really [00:43:00] important and we'll never change our, um, we'll never change our commitment to delivering great, great coffee. But we've doubled down on the hospitality and the service of it. So if you come in more than once, there's a pretty good chance that somebody's gonna recognize your name.
You're gonna be welcomed in, you're gonna be shown around, you're gonna have your name confirmed. We're not gonna screw up the spelling of it. We're gonna have a conversation. And like, even like just the things that we teach during training make it almost impossible for us to not connect unless you just don't want to.
So we've done a lot of work to try and teach the team. That the goal is to be completely selfless in your interaction with the guest, and that's kind of where we've planted our flag and double down on what we're doing. Because at the end of the day, there's always gonna be better coffee out there.
There's always gonna be a different brand or, or [00:44:00] vibe that somebody wants to get, like they're just not gonna recognize or resonate with wild things, right? But if you can make somebody feel special, that's, that's hard to beat no matter what kind of coffee or what, what kind of like vibe or or feeling that you have when somebody walks in.
But that experience and being cared about for this three to five minutes that you're in there, that's what matters.
Riley: Yeah, fun that you bring that up because there's, there was a thing that happened with our oil change company. You know, we, we had this like fantastic brand of oil, right, that we just love and have worked well with them, and the product's just been awesome. But when we surveyed our customers, the favorite thing, like you said, 250 of your 300 and something reviews is, uh, the customer service part, the, the connection part. Ours was not the product we sold. It wasn't even the fact that we were a mobile oil change company. It was the fact that we have a computer [00:45:00] system that keeps track of people's vehicles and would tell them when they're do next. So they didn't have to think about it. was the favorite. And that was like, by far the favorite, like 80% of our customer base said we're here because of that.
And I was like, man, that wasn't even, I did that I could keep track of my customers and, and not lose them. I didn't do
Mike: Yeah.
Riley: that for me, not for them, but it turned out to be their favorite things.
Mike: Yeah.
Riley: cool.
Mike: how that stuff makes a difference. Like I, I mean, you think about like, it's the cliche thing in business and services is like, you need to, if somebody feels heard though, they're gonna appreciate you. They're gonna feel cared about. Right? But if you think about your food experience, like your individual food experience, and I don't mean Riley's, but like the person that's listening to this, that I'm talking to.
If you think about the last bad experience you had with, at a restaurant or at a coffee shop or, or where there was some sort [00:46:00] of service, I would be willing to bet an enormous amount of money that it has almost nothing to do with what you were paying for in the sense of it's because they got it wrong, or that it wasn't quite what you wanted, but rather how you were treated after the fact.
Riley: My best customers are ones that we've screwed something up and then we've gone out of our way to fix it we make it right. And then all of a sudden those guys are loyal. They're, they, they realized we went to bat for them. You know, something went
Mike: Hmm.
Riley: some emotion was exchanged, and then we went to bat and we fixed it and we made it right.
And yeah. I think if I'm hearing you right, that's kinda what you're saying.
Mike: Absolutely. Yeah. Absolutely. Yeah. I've got Afu, a funny story about, um, we had, we had a barista, she'd been with us for like three weeks, so she hadn't truly been, it was like she'd gone. We, our onboarding is pretty extensive, [00:47:00] but she hadn't been truly like indoctrinated quo fingers in the air. And so this was right around fall and she did not have, uh, we had pumpkin in the coffee shop, but it wasn't quote, available for somebody to buy.
So we hadn't dropped our fall drinks yet. And we had a guy that, she told me this, she's, and she was almost like apologetic to it, but it was a tea, serious teaching point. And I still tease her about it, but the guy was like, Hey, um, do you guys have any pumpkin? Like could I get a pumpkin spice latte or whatever drink that he wanted?
And her response was. Uh, I don't know if I'm allowed to sell that. I don't know if I can do that. And so now I tease her. It's like Mina, if you like, do you know how much of a stud, like that guy would've come back like three times later that day for coffee if you just leaned over and been like, Hey, I'm not supposed to do this, but I'll hook you up.
Like he, that guy would've felt, felt so special. And then you just pull him out and pull out the pumpkin and make the drink. [00:48:00] Like, I would not have been upset by that one because it's a silly thing to be upset about. And two, it's an opportunity for her to like make that guy feel seen, make him feel special, and the benefit of him coming back for the rest of his life and think that you're a stud and a hero is like, that's gonna reap more benefit than selling pumpkin drinks a week before we were supposed to quoting fingers in the air.
Riley: right?
Mike: Yeah. Yeah. And that's actually the toughest thing about like trying to teach service and hospitality is because so many of these companies, whether it's coffee or not, like Albertsons, micron, Microsoft, like some construction company, you ha you like, you have these rules and safeguards in place. To keep things from getting outta hand or doing the wrong thing, or it is like, it's like being governed into inefficiency or non-productive, or being non-productive.
But like, we get these [00:49:00] baristas and it's actually one of the reasons that we won't hire, if you will, we're not likely to hire you just because you have previous coffee experience. 'cause what they do is they'll come in and they're so boxed into these rules that they don't want to break them for the sake of making somebody feel special.
It's like, no, that's not what we do here. Like, you're, you're encouraged to break down those walls so that you can go above and beyond. And like, it is so tough to teach those habits out of people. It's insane. It's mind boggling that you have to tell someone to be nice or go overboard. It's, I can't, it's so confusing to me.
Riley: Mike, how do you teach that? How do you, how do you go about that concept to your team?
Mike: Um, I, to be honest, I don't even have an answer. It's like I couldn't, it's not an answer I have in a duplicable sense [00:50:00] like we have, so at the coffee shop we have. We have a leather patch program, so it's like a leather hat patch that goes on like, like a, like a hat, a leather patch. And it's just a wild things logo.
And we had 'em stitched on, I don't have one around me, but like your trucker style hat. It's just a leather patch that was sewed on some trucker hats. And we had like 300 of 'em in a box that never got put on hats. And so what we did is we took the leather patch and we wrote good for one free drink and put 'em under the counter.
And so one of the things that we do is, hey, you have, as a barista, you can give this leather patch out at any point in time. This is different than the punch card. So if you see somebody walk in and they're having a rough day or you just feel called to serve them, you can give that they, every one of our baristas have permission to give those out [00:51:00] at any velocity and at any time that they want to.
Um, the same thing goes with punches. We used to have a double punch day, but we got rid of it because we don't want people to expect it and come in just for that. We want them to come in for the hospitality and the service and to get coffee. So now we have a rule where you're expected to give out five to 10 punches every day extra just because you want to.
And so we have some things like that in place, um, but it's really hard to reinforce it and empower it. In a sense of like, just in the, for the sake of autonomy, just do it. Like you don't have to ask. It's so easy, like Eric and I have a policy that we'll never be upset if it's in the vein of servant heartedness.
And that's not servant heartedness in our eyes, but servant heartedness in their eyes. So if they can legitimately defend it and say, this is what I felt [00:52:00] called to do, this is why I did it. Like, we don't want them to go out and just like throw leather patches everywhere because they want to, they have the ability to, but the teaching point there is like recognizing what they feel called to do and being empathetic and being human rather than just a transaction over the counter.
So then it becomes like almost like a human teaching point where we don't want you to be mechanical and we don't want you to be a robot just with service and run through the process of delivering coffee because you're, that's your job. We want you to be human in the sense of if somebody comes in and you can see this woman's on the phone and she's crying because like you can hear her talking to a lawyer or something like, be human, be a good quality human being, or recognize that she's having a crappy day and just put yourself in her position like.
If you are getting some devastating [00:53:00] news, how would you wanna be treated if you were coming in for coffee? Like you have an opportunity to be the best part of that person's day. Just be a human being. So I think the idea is less about trying to teach hospitality, like every person on earth has the I has the ability to be hospitable and serve and stand up and above and go over over the top with somebody in being selfless and polite.
But the teaching point for us has been to like recognize the opportunity for it and then actually act on it. So to answer your question, I don't have an answer for that. I just know that when I see an opportunity, I'll wait for the guest to leave, get their coffee and go away. And then I will talk through it with the barista.
'cause that's about the only way that I've found to actually do it. But if somebody's listening and they know how to empath, like if somebody knows how to implement that stuff, I would love to talk to them because it's something I've [00:54:00] been putting a lot of like brain power in over the last three to six months.
Riley: That's a, that is a challenge, man. I know, I know. In my companies, that's been one of those things that's like, you, how do you pass down that ability to get in the customer's head, see what, how they see it? Because there are certain things we just expect, and not in an entitled way, but there's, there's a way a customer sees something when they see something that's, uh, what they would maybe consider unjust or not fair. Like what, why wouldn't you? Uh, you know, I'm thinking of an example, you know, if in my oil change company, especially. If we, if we put a filter on a, on a vehicle and for some reason that filter leaks, right, we could just go out and put a new filter on it or fix the gasket or whatever it happens to be.
'cause there's manufacturing defects about twice a year, we'll see that, there'll be a, a seal, not, not seal up, but if, if that's all we do, we don't clean the bottom of the car and [00:55:00] then clean the spots off the driveway, we've missed something there. That customer may not even know that they are expecting us to do that.
But when we do it, it means a lot to them. You know, it's like, oh
Mike: Yeah.
Riley: just clean the, you didn't just fix the leak. You actually fixed the leak, topped off the oil, cleaned my car and cleaned my driveway.
Mike: Yeah.
Riley: have even thought of that. But yeah. Now that if you would've driven away and not cleaned the driveway, I would've noticed
Mike: Yeah, yeah, yeah. Like it's, so being a car guy, you'll recognize this and I'll, I'll use the coffee shop as an example. Like, I think of it as rims and tires on a car. When they're dirty, you don't notice that they're dirty, but when they're cleaned and shined, they pop and you're like, man, that is sharp. I don't know why, but it's sharp.
It's just one of those things that you just don't recognize, right? Like the Cadillacs from the late nineties when they had the [00:56:00] yellow bead on the tire. I remember when I was a detailer in college, I remember cleaning that yellow bead and then cleaning the, the Cadillac on the North Star, the, uh, vehicles that they had where it was like the chrome tire with the yellow bead and the black tire.
You step back and you're like, dang, that looks scar. And you don't, you don't realize it, you don't appreciate it until it's cleaned and it's taken care of. It's kind of the same thing, like the, the cleaning up and the spots and the bottom of the car. Like, it's just stuff that you don't notice until you recognize, like it goes underappreciated, I guess is what I'm saying.
And like the, um, the thing that we like, the way that we do that at the coffee shop is by confirming somebody's name and spelling it correctly and confirming that it's spelled correctly. I can't, like, it happened this morning where. I was in there dropping off, um, some milk and [00:57:00] this gal had her name spelled correctly and she was just like, oh my gosh.
Yeah, you got that right. And so like we had one time, this guy, his name was Luke and our, um, barista at the time, his, I think it was um, like just a few months ago. It might have been longer, but anyway, came in. Guy had a little bit of an accent, right? So right there, first thing your radar goes up, he's got a little bit of an accent.
So if you're, we have the statement and I mentioned it earlier, be where your shoes are at. So be present for the conversation. 'cause if you're just like, how's your weather? What do you got going on this weekend? Like, that's just not genuine conversation and you're just listening for an opportunity to give the coffee and send 'em out the door.
Be where your shoes are at and recognize what you've got in front of you. So a guy comes in, he's got a little bit of an accent, and then he's talking orders his coffee. And our barista was like, is that LUC or is that LUKE? And the guy was just [00:58:00] absolutely floored. That we, he had recognized that his name might be LUC.
I mean, he, he called a friend while waiting for his copy just to tell him that we had spelled his name correctly. And so it just goes to show that the little things are what matter, and that, like, we have these, I've had these conversations with our franchising owners of the coffee shop. It's like the little things are so important and you don't recognize that it's not a big deal.
And we've had some owners push back on it saying like, oh, it's so fabricated. We don't wanna do this. This is like, it just sounds so scripted. It's like, yeah, but the moment that you have somebody call their mom or call a friend because you spelled their name right, because it never happens in a million years like that, right?
There is worth the price of admission. And he left a Google Review talking about how we spelled his name correctly. So it sounds insignificant, but if you don't do the little things like that, you just get lumped into everybody else. Which then goes into what we [00:59:00] talked about, the Art of war, which is redefining the rules of engagement.
If you try and battle with these other companies or other mobile lube companies that just send you on your way without cleaning the concrete, without cleaning the spots up, without cleaning the underneath of the car, you literally get lumped into them as well. If we don't spell the names right, we get lumped into Starbucks.
Because that's notoriously what they do. Right? So do we wanna be compared to them? Absolutely not. So how do we separate ourselves? Well make sure that you spell the name right for one. That's, that's a good way to do it. So it's just like the little things matter and it goes to being seen, it goes to recognizing what people care about and it like, it makes, it doesn't seem like it'd be a big deal, but making people feel cared about is super important.
Riley: It's so cool, man. I, um, I love hearing it 'cause I know that that stuff takes a lot of work. And like you said earlier, if somebody has a formula, you'd, you would love to hear
Mike: would love to hear it. Yeah.
Riley: this kinda stuff. [01:00:00] But
Mike: Without a doubt.
Riley: if you've been in business more than 10 minutes, you start to realize that I have to replicate a service over and over and over again. of these things are so. Difficult to replicate because I, you know, I think about this thing that happens in salt, right? Where will order a product and then maybe with our free samples, right? We'll offer a free sample to somebody and they'll go on, get their free sample, and then a family member will get a free sample and they'll order it maybe a day apart. If we see that we should just put 'em both in one package and ship them together, right? It would, it would save us on some shipping and it arrives together. But when it arrives together, we need to do something there to, uh, differentiate, Hey, these ones belong to this guy. Don't take them. You know, some little note in there like that.
This, this, this is Bob's, uh, you know, Louise don't take Bob's stuff. So,
Mike: Yep.
Riley: something a little cute in [01:01:00] there, you know, but, but to, to translate that to my son who packs up all the product that's difficult. Like, Hey man, make a joke in there. It's okay. Pack their stuff together, but
Mike: Yep.
Riley: 'em out and make sure that, you know, Louis doesn't steal Bob's salt sticks. You know, it's,
Mike: Yeah, for sure. Yeah, we've done something similar. I think one time I wrote a note on, um, a bag of coffee beans that somebody bought and we didn't have them in store, so we ordered 'em. They came in, we put a sticky note and I was like, I wrote on the sticky note 'cause the guy came in wearing like an Ohio State jacket or something like that.
And uh, I, on the sticky note, I was like, Darren, tell him Ohio State sucks.
Riley: Perfect example.
Mike: Yeah,
Riley: Oh my gosh, man. Mike, off air, we, we talked about your dry erase board back there, and I know this is, it, maybe, maybe sounds insignificant, but you talked about [01:02:00] offloading your ideas onto here. Um, so what you guys see in the background is, is stuff that has come directly outta Mike's brain. And that can be a little scary. I know, 'cause I know you well enough that, uh, yeah, knowing what comes, goes on in your head could be a scary thing. But that man that the value of just, you, you, you had said to me, no matter where I am in the house, I'll run up here and jot an idea down. Good or bad.
Mike: Yeah.
Riley: sometimes, yeah. Talk about how you determine a good idea from a bad one and what, things actually make the, the job or the board there.
[01:03:00]
Mike: Yeah. So I'll talk a little bit about, this'll lean into our values and our, like, our, our core values and driving purpose. So I have, I have pretty bad A DHD and it doesn't necessarily mean like, um, the best way that I can put it. And I don't mean like a DHD as in like, I ignore people or I'll uns, like I'll go without answering text messages.
But I think there are a lot of people that do that, that is just a cop out or excuse, but like, legit A DHD. And what that just means is I input [01:04:00] and process quickly. Like I can move from an idea to an idea very, very quickly and I can just take in information. Um, so like I can be rubbing my belly, patting my head, watching TV and reading a book all at once, and like, take that information in or process it, I should say.
It doesn't mean I retained it any differently. It's just like I can stop and say, oh yeah, this just happened on the TV show while I was reading about this kind of stuff. So. Um, what'll happen is I'll be doing the dishes or I'll be outside, or I'll even be playing baseball or throwing, throwing baseball, playing catch with one of my kids, and I'll have an idea.
And so if the circumstance allows, I'll run in here, dot on the whiteboard with a couple of ideas, or I'll, I'll throw it on my phone and the notes app or send myself a text message. And then just when I have the chance, come back and expand on it. And the way that I filter these ideas, sometimes these will stay up here for like weeks at a time.
And what happens is when I [01:05:00] get a chance to sit down and actually process through it, there are two ways that I'll know if it's a good idea, one, if I can't stop thinking about it. And two, I will run through it. Like I'll, I'll run it through the filter of our, our driving purpose, which is what some businesses call their mission statement and our North star of service, which is our operative directive for our baristas and our core values.
So that gives them the purpose and idea and like they can feel comfort knowing that Erica and I will walk in and not fly off the handle about a dirty coffee bar if they're doing those other things or trying to do those things first. So take an idea if it makes it through the driving purpose, cool. If it aligns with the Abri barista's ability to do or perform or, or Excel at the North Star of service, then if it does not, then it's a non-starter.
If it does, then it passes through that filter one more [01:06:00] time. Then the last three are our core values, which is servant hearted love. Deeply stand out. So again, we'll put I, I will put an idea through those three things, and if it doesn't fit the bill, then it won't make it, and that's how we kind of maintain that singularity and purpose is by making sure that everything that we do fits those things.
So. Everything in a coffee shop, everything we serve, everything that is in the hands that is drank or e eaten by a guest has passed through that. So you can know that the person that we deal with to get it there, the ingredients in it have all been, they've all been pressure tested against those. Um, the way that we set up the shop, it's been pressure tested, the seats been pressure tested, the games out front like the, the Jenga and the Connect four pressure tested against that, who we involve ourselves with, pressure tested.
Even the owners of other stores have been pressure tested against those things. So that's the first level of defense [01:07:00] for these ideas. The second level of defense is whether or not it will take us away from our goals and purpose. So we at the franchisor level have a goal of 15 stores by the end of the year, not open, but in the process of being open.
So if it's an idea that is going to take us away from that, then it, it's probably not gonna happen. So a really good idea that I have right now that I've been like that I really want to do is we want to take, uh, like local hunters who have mounts or sheds or something like that, that just don't make it up on their wall 'cause they don't have the room and it's just sitting in a garage somewhere.
I would love to be able to take that from local hunters, mount it, plaque it with who shot it, where they got it, the date and all that stuff, and then hang it up in the coffee shop. But. And then just like not,
Riley: for you there.
Mike: yeah, I, I, it'll, it will happen at some point. [01:08:00] And I'm sure, and I've talked to the people that I've talked to who are like, that's a great idea.
We wouldn't own it, we would just display it on their behalf. So it's like a point of like pride for hunters, right? Like they all wanna show that big elk that they ba nailed. So it's one of those things, like that would be a great idea. It fits all of the filters that we, that I just outlined, but I just don't have the time to execute it.
And none of our baristas and nobody on the team has the time to execute it. So it's just one of those things that's gotta like, it just has to go to the back, sit in the back backseat for now. Um, because if I do go do that, it's going to eliminate my ability to get to 15 stores by the end of the year. Um, another good idea is like nitro cold brew, like our cold brew is really, really, really popular.
We're actually, spoiler alert, this will probably be released before, like after this is announced, but we're bringing back, um, a really popular cold brewery and we've talked about canning our cold brew and selling it. [01:09:00] But that's something that would take me away from opening 15 stores by the end of the year.
And because the 15 stores by the end of the year aligns more clearly with our goals, our executables in like that filtering system, it aligns more firmly with trying to sell cold brew or hang up mounts in the coffee shop. It's just one of those things that's gotta go to the back door for now, or backseat for now.
Riley: That's awesome, man. 'cause that that. Strategy of not being distracted by every shiny object is difficult, man. A lot of business owners were, we're in business because we have a lot of ideas, right? And then a few of them have landed that are actually good, but we're also very guilty most of the time of that squirrel, man.
Oh gosh, there's a thing. I wanna go chase this
Mike: Yeah,
Riley: that derails the goal
Mike: yeah, yeah. And you don't wanna have too many ideas that makes the business go bankrupt. Like we were talking about before we went, went on air, went live. It's like, you know, if at some point your ideas will get you so [01:10:00] distracted and so diversified that you just won't be able to accomplish anything.
I mean, there's a reason that that, that Apple line of products is like five things, four things. And there's that legendary story of when Steve Jobs came back, he cut like 80% of the products. If you look at every good company, they are limiting their offerings, and I think that's the key as far as your ideas are concerned.
Riley: I think that's a huge thing, man. I, I, um, I remember one time, gosh, it's been 15 years ago, but uh, one of my customers suggested in my mobile oil change company that he's like, man, it'd be really cool if you guys did emissions testing right? And. I was like, yeah, it's possible. Like we could put a machine onboard our trucks, but that's something that people, you know, it costs 20 bucks and it's done once a year and it takes up this much real estate in my truck, and only a [01:11:00] portion of my customers are gonna do it because there's one on every corner. I've gotta rely on the fact that I, I now have a business relationship with the government that violates a couple of my core values. Right. And so it was a, it went through my filter, right? My filter. We also have written core values as one of the things we, we bounced that off of. Um, and, you know, one of, one of mine is I have these written, written out, it's four qualifications someone has to meet in order to even be a customer.
Right? And, you know, one of those is they have to pay on time and the government does not. They, they do this 30 or 60 day billing thing, right? And so that was one of the things that I, I used as a filter to decide that, no, that's not an idea that's gonna land. it sort of, kind of make sense? Is it, is it in the vein?
Yeah. But it didn't, it didn't qualify because of these other factors, right? So I love that you have a process [01:12:00] for that.
Mike: Try to, it's not always easy 'cause you just want to like, you wanna take a good idea and just run with it and be like, like filter be damned. But yeah, I mean, it's there. I wish I used it more. Probably.
Riley: Yeah. we didn't, we didn't really talk about it, but one of the things I want to get at, um, what do you do for a job as a day job? Because you, because
Mike: I,
Riley: even ask this question, so I don't know the answer. Matt, are you still
Mike: yeah,
Riley: your job?
Mike: I am not, no, it's um, kind of, so I was, I do, technically I don't have a job. I do some contracting for some digital services. I've got a very small client list that IU that I just like to float some money here and there when I need to. But Eric and I, we really committed to getting our 15 stores open by the end of the year.
So we quit her job and she's in the same boat where she does some side [01:13:00] stuff here and there to kind of float some bills and things like that. But we're, everything you do takes you away from your purposing goal. So is, I mean, there are probably people on here that are like, dude, that is absolutely.
Stupid that you did that and irresponsible. You've got kids you gotta take care of. But like when your back is up against a wall, like, and you have no choice, every decision you make leads towards actually making traction in accomplishing your goals. So I ha Yeah, there, I'm not gonna lie, there have been some super, super hard months.
There have been some super, super hard conversations and there have been a lot of tears in this situation, a lot of sensitive, like insecurity. But like, it's probably one of the best things that I've ever done because now my time can be spent on actually moving forward with the goal of opening 15 stores, expanding the ministry that is provided through wild things and like making people feel cared about.
Because at the end of the day, it like, it sounds cliche and I'm sure that there are [01:14:00] people on here that that'll watch this and be like, ah, it's not okay. You're just feeding a line. But I genuinely want people to be heard and cared about. Listened and like, I want somebody to walk through the door of a wild things and without any hesitation, unequivocably feel cared about.
Like to the umpteenth degree. That's what's important to me because I've been in so many situations in businesses where I've walked in as a customer or like you get, like you order something, you buy something. And it's just a transaction for them. It's like, no, dude. I was like, I was buying this for some special, oh, my wedding ring.
When I bought the wedding ring for my wife, there was a stone missing. And the guy that helped, like the guy that actually handed it to me, [01:15:00] I didn't know until I got like home and opened it up and looked at it and there was a stone missing. And I took it back and I was like, dude, there's a stone missing.
And um, the guy was like, oh, I noticed that and I totally forgot to do anything about it. I'm so sorry. And I was like, dude, like you're messing with what if I'd gone to a proposed with this? Like, it seems insignificant and it's not really that big of a deal at the end of the day, but like what if Right?
It, it's just, I can't put into words how important it is for me to make people feel cared about when they walk through the door of a wild thing. And that's the goal. So if I'm spending my time working, going to a job doing this, the eight to five, the nine to five, whatever it is, that's time taking away from my opportunity to make people feel special.
So I do not have a day job. My day job is trying to get more wild things open.
Riley: Yes. How long did that transition take? Because you, you did for a while there, you guys were kind of [01:16:00] juggling both, right?
Mike: Yeah. Yeah. So Erica was a little bit tougher to convince of that. So she was working until.
Riley: I.
Mike: I would say October maybe. 'cause November was a tough month. December, January were not bad. February was okay. Um, yeah, so I wanna say probably October, November she was still working some side gigs, some like about like a job ish. It was a remote type job or semi remote. But she was working because I've been a contractor making my own money for a while, it was a lot easier for me to just back off and take my foot off the gas, if you will.
Um, so I just kind of turned that dial down a little bit and then have, now I work when I need to. But, um, the transition for her was so she quit a job 'cause she wasn't happy with it. [01:17:00] There was just some value misalignment there. And I told her, I was like, you know what? I'm not gonna pressure you. I don't think it'd be a good idea if you did.
I'd rather your effort be put towards expanding wild things. 'cause she's mission critical for it just as much as I am. So everything that somebody eats or drinks is her world. So everything that happens behind a coffee bar is hers. Everything you see and experience at the coffee bar is me. And so if she's distracted or pulled in a different direction, now we've got quality, like quality control is gonna.
Not like it's not there and not as present. So, um, it took some convincing, but hers was probably a few weeks before I was convinced, before I convinced her not to go look for another job. For me it was pretty quick. I was able to just like not do things.
Riley: All right, man. So the difficult question, when you're working with your spouse, how do [01:18:00] you guys, you, you sort of alluded to it already, but how do you guys keep from stepping on each other's toes and, and keep each other sane while you, while you work together? I.
Mike: Um, that's a good question. So we have like quotey fingers, like we have to find roles. So like I said, everything you see and experience and feel at the coffee shop is me. Everything you eat and drink and purchase at the coffee shop is her. So that doesn't mean that we don't ask each other our thoughts on things.
Um, the biggest problem that we've run into is I wanna go and take aim after I've taken. So like shooting and take aim, that's absolutely my mentality, whereas she's a lot more calculated with it and cautious. Um. So I will take on risk like nobody's business like I'll just go and try and figure it out.
Whereas she's a lot more risk adverse. So trying to balance, that's been [01:19:00] really, really tough. But what we've actually done, and it sounds super dumb, like there are people that are like, ah, it sounds so fabricated, but it helps is we actually have time on the calendar to talk about things. So like we have a budget meeting every Monday where we talk with our bookkeeper.
It's in the calendar. Now, whether or not we do it or don't do it, totally not the point, but it's there and it's protected time. We have a standup once a week that's an hour long where we just sit down and so like talk about, okay, this is what we've got, this is what we're doing. Um, then with each of our owners, we have a standup with them as well.
So in the process of opening their store, they have slotted time once a week. If they go, they go. If they don't go, they don't go. But if's just protected time to make sure that you talk about things and, and iron out details. So we try and do that. Um, just very intentional with today, this is our time. What are we gonna talk about?
Let's talk [01:20:00] about it and let's get it over and done with and all that stuff. But it's not as effective as I would like it to be or that she would like it to be. But it does help go a long way as far as making sure that roles and responsibilities are partitioned off, if you will. And then another thing that's really, really helpful is, um, we have this idea of ownership and responsibility.
So if like we have a manager right in the shop, we own the outcome of the coffee. So if somebody drinks coffee and they're like, that's terrible coffee. We own that result and that outcome. But it is not our responsibility to make sure that it's taken care of. That falls on the barista. And there are distinct differences in those, and I'm sure that some people are like, well, you just said you own it.
So doesn't [01:21:00] that make you responsible? No, because when Erica steps behind the bar, she is not the owner. She's not the person making the final decision because that's the manager. Because Erica's not in there a fraction of the time as the manager. So it would be naive of us to go in there as the owner and say, no, no, no, we're gonna make the drink this way because that's the manager's job.
So the separation of church and state is really what it comes down to in the sense of. We teach and coach the manager. And then the manager is the one that makes sure, because she's responsible for like, making sure that everything is running. 'cause what happens is, if we as the owner step into that role and we're like, we're just gonna do it this way because I'm behind the bar right now, that becomes a conflict for the manager because now we're undermining her.
The team will not look to her, they'll look to us for answers. And then that makes our job harder because now we are feeling questions that the manager has been hired to take care of. So that's another thing that [01:22:00] we do, is like, if Erica's on vacation, like she was gone all last week, he owns the quality of the drinks, but now I'm responsible to make sure that things are happening the way they need to happen because she's not even in town.
So it comes, now there's another aspect of it, and I know I'm going super high, laissez-faire, like high level with this. Um, but what happens is now your chain of command is not one way. So what we do is if I run into a situation, I can always go up the chain of command when it's behind the bar stuff and say, Hey Erica, what would you like to have happen here?
While I was on the other side of things, Erica's like, Hey, I wanna get some shirts for the team. He's going up the chain of command. 'cause the marketing side is my side. What kinda shirts should we get? What do you think about this design? And so it's just a, an appreciation or respect for the roles and responsibilities and understanding that.
Just because I'm the owner doesn't mean that I need to be the one to make things happen. [01:23:00] 'cause otherwise I'll be wasting my time doing things that other somebody else should be doing.
Riley: I think that's well said, man. 'cause I, that is a mistake I feel like business owners make often is they will, they'll delegate. And I put that in quotes because they've, you know, but what they've really done is just pass off responsibility. But then they'll come in there and like you said, they get behind the coffee bar and then they start doing things a different way. And the sitting there that. Really is in charge of that, that you've put in charge of that, now all of a sudden feel awkward. There's just this like, well, I can't, I can't let the owner know that they're actually breaking policy right now, or they're, they're doing something incorrectly as far as our, our procedures go, because that's the owner, you know, and my wife and I, she works with me in a business, like she's our marketer for salt, right?
She does all the, the graphic design and that kind of a thing. That's her hat, man. And if she puts a design up there, that's what I've hired her to do. [01:24:00] And I have my input at the beginning, but when it goes out, that's completely up to her. And I, I don't question it. I don't call her out on it. And, you know, when I put my stuff up, if I, if I post something, um. I will definitely clear that with her. Like, Hey, come in and gimme your input. 'cause I need, I need this, and am I doing this right? Because I don't want to get in there and screw up her department. Right. She's, she's very good at that. I'm not so good at that. And she, you know, so I, I value that. And, and we wear different hats, man. When, when we work together in the, in either of our businesses, we don't, I don't call her sweetheart, I don't call her sugar pie. I, I call her by her first name and she vice versa.
Mike: Yeah.
Riley: the other employees don't get confused and, and feel like there's a Trump card going on. You know, like they, that's Riley's wife.
Mike: Yeah,
Riley: no, that's your coworker and this is, this is her function and this is how you talk to her. And this is, you know, I'm gonna, when I've delegated, I'm [01:25:00] gonna now be under that authority too.
Mike: yeah. Yeah. And I think, so there's like, I think trust is the big thing there. And like, we trust, and it's easier said than done because like, I think we talked about this before we, we came on, there's like, you know, like you have this thing that you're trying to protect and you wanna make sure that you are putting it and like giving the responsibility and the ownership of certain tasks to the, to the right person.
But you have to also, one, you have to do your due diligence and make sure that, that, um, like when you delegate, you're passing this off to somebody that. You trust or that when you are hiring them, or before you're even considering it, you trust them and uh, then like, just trust them to one, get the job done well enough that it doesn't suck.
And then [01:26:00] two, trust yourself that you can coach and cr like correct in a positive way. 'cause like we have a policy here in-house that we wanna give responsibility to the baristas before they're ready. Otherwise, if they're ready, they'll go find a different job. The moment that they realize that they're ready for a job, they'll go find somewhere else if you're not giving it to them and you grow when you're uncomfortable.
So like, are we, we're dropping a line of merch here in the next few weeks and one of the baristas designed it all and he was absolutely not ready to take on that task, but we gave it to him and we're like, Hey, here's, here's a resource for you. Here's a resource for you. Just like, go figure it out. And I'll tell you if you're off the rails or if you're coming out of pocket with it.
But like, you gotta be able to trust that who and what is gonna be done well enough that you can correct and coach. If you're giving that role and responsibility to somebody that's so out of pocket that like you [01:27:00] can't coach or correct them back into success, then you like, you probably didn't make a good decision in the first place, which is on you.
It's not their fault. Because you own it. It's their responsibility.
Riley: I love it, man. Mike, you've mentioned this conversation a few times, the word ministry in relation to your business. Um, where does your faith come into all this?
Mike: It's the grounds of, um, it's the basis of everything we do in the sense of like all of like our driving purpose that's attached to Matthew 1820, where two or two or more gather eyes shall be there with them. Like, um, all the, all three core values, they're attached to a Bible verse. The, the, uh, north star of service.
Each one of those four are attached to bible verses. It's not that we don't strictly hire Christians or people of [01:28:00] faith. We are not a Christian coffee shop. 'cause then we alienate people that might not be Christians. But we are very outspoken in the fact that like everything we do is founded. And like the value system is built on Christian values, it's built on biblical service.
Um, so like obviously we're not going to, nor do we hire only Christians. Like that's not, that's not what gets you in the door. It's not what keeps you from getting in the door. But it is something like, we're not gonna hire. Like if somebody has pronouns in their bio as an example, like there's that video that went viral a few few months ago where the gal was like, if you have pronouns in your bio, you're probably walking on eggshells with everybody around you.
You're difficult. And this like, it's not to say that we will or will not, but it's certainly like our value system is derived from biblical principle and that's how we make our decisions because we have confidence and faith [01:29:00] in that that's gonna point us in the right direction when it comes to this stuff.
And so there's no, um, it's no mystery that the world is hurting, right? So we want to serve through our faith as a place where people can come and not feel the hurt of the world.
Riley: I love it man. 'cause you're, what you're saying is, is pretty cool how you're putting that. 'cause you're, you're. He said it's not a Christian coffee shop. However, it's run on Christian values. Right. And those values work for people, whether they believe them or not, or they subscribe to them or not. Right. Being honest, uh, not telling a lie. That's a commandment. Right. And that, that works for everybody. or not. Right. Um, amendments like, you know, don't lust after [01:30:00] your neighbor's wife.
Mike: Yeah.
Riley: that works for anybody whether they like it or not. So I, uh, yeah,
Mike: Yeah.
Riley: you're saying. I think it's super cool man.
It's, it's a, it's a good way to live life. It dunno if you've seen Rogan's little clip that that's out there of him talking about that, he's like, man, if it wasn't true, living by Christian principles is still the best way to live. It's the
Mike: Yeah,
Riley: for success that's
Mike: yeah, yeah. I mean our, like, our driving purpose is a really good example of that. Like it's to be the best part of everyone's day by bringing community together into a family. Like that's, that's synonymous with teamwork. Like when you have multiple people pulling in the same direction, whether that's making everybody's day the best part, like being a best part of everyone's day, or if it's trying to make a successful coffee shop, or if it's, uh, going to score a touchdown, if it's going to ace a, a midterm.
Like all of that stuff doesn't require [01:31:00] help, but you will be more successful if you have help. And so one of the instantly fireable offenses of our baristas is conduct unbecoming of the team. So are you undermining the team? Are you talking down about people behind their back? Are you not addressing conflict head on?
Like all of that stuff is. Grounded in biblical principle, Matthew 1820, where two or two or more gather, I will be there with them. So what that's saying, whether you're a believer or not, is if you gather with people who are like, just in general, if you gather together with others, you will be blessed, you'll be successful.
And what you want to have happen will, will happen. And so it doesn't take a rocket scientist to understand that. Like when you come together with others, good things are gonna be good. Things are gonna happen. Whether it's, whether, what's that saying, [01:32:00] uh, uh, about raising kids? It takes a village, right? It takes a village to raise, raise a kid.
Um, it takes a team to be successful to, like it takes, takes 11 guys on a football field to score a touchdown. You can't do it alone. You, some people might shoulder more responsibility or more ability than others, but you can't do it alone. And so grounded in biblical principle, but it doesn't necessarily mean that that's what it has to be.
And it doesn't mean that you have to be a Christian or a believer to come in and enjoy coffee and to gather with other people and just have a good time.
Riley: That's well said man. Mike, can we switch gears to some lighter questions?
Mike: Hit me.
Riley: I say some lighter, there's some lighter, there's a couple heavy ones in here, but, um, tell me this man, you the, the name of this podcast is the Go Earn Your Salt Podcast. And when you hear that what does it mean to you?
Mike: Um, [01:33:00] I go, uh, I go biblical with it. Actually when, uh, Matthew writes that Jesus talked about being a salt of the Earth and it's like, he's like, I'm gonna drop some biblical knowledge on here. Hopefully I don't lose any listeners for you. But he says, he goes, what do you mean by be the salt of the earth? And he said, basically, salt adds flavor to things, right?
You can take something bland or empty or callous and add salt to it, and it gives it flavor. So go be the light of the world. Go be a positive influence on somebody else. Go make a difference in the lives of somebody else. So when it says, go earn your soul, go be worthy of that. Go be the person, the effort, the, um, go be something or someone or go do something, or like that is worthy of being poured into.
That's kind of [01:34:00] what I think about it. I know that that's not the direct, like what the intention or purpose is, and I'm sure that that's not where you came up with it, but that's what it reminds me of. That's what I think of.
Riley: That's awesome, man. That's, uh, one of the best versions that I've ever heard, so I love it.
Mike: It's actually pulled from like Juujitsu principle because. One of the things that I used to think about, like the reason that, so I got a couple stripes on my blue belt before I took a hiatus, and I know blue belt blues, all that stuff. I swear I'm gonna come back. But, um, one of the things that I wanted to get that, like the thing that I want, the reason I wanted that next stripe wasn't for the stripe.
The reason I wanted that next color on the belt wasn't because I wanted the next color. It was so I could pour into the people underneath me. And so I wanted to earn the right, and I wanted to be worthy [01:35:00] of being given the gift of, of being like the assault and being assault for others.
Riley: Man. Dude,
Mike: I know,
Riley: it. I it. I love it.
Mike: I, it's, it's not because I'm smart, I've just done it wrong enough to know how to avoid it.
Riley: oh man, tell you, you don't have to be in business for more than about 10 minutes before you figured out some ways to do it wrong. Right.
Mike: Yeah. Right.
Riley: Uh, what's your, what's your favorite pastime, man?
Mike: Um, I really like, um, oh well, I'm an exercise junkie. So I like working out for sure. It's probably ingrained in my DNA just from all the years in sports. But, um, I like, um, I've got a guitar over here. I probably don't play it as much as I would like to, but I like messing with that. I like tinkering on [01:36:00] cars.
I'm a bit of a car guy. Um, probably one of the only, uh, I know this is not true, I know this is not true, but I'm probably one of like the three F1 fans in the state of Idaho.
Riley: The three. It
Mike: Yeah.
Riley: big around here. Huh?
Mike: No, it's not. It's not. Um, so yeah, I like, uh, like playing the guitar. I like, uh, working on cars, fixing cars, things like that. I don't do either one of those nearly enough. I like working out that kinda stuff.
Riley: What's uh, what's something quirky about you that people don't know?
Mike: Quirky.
Quirky. That's a good question.
Quirky. When I drive somewhere that I've been more than once, I intentionally try and go a different route every time.[01:37:00]
Riley: Oh goodness. Okay. Explain this. Where does that come from? I.
Mike: So I read, so, uh, I think it was in college, I read that. Um, read what Alzheimer's was and like how it happens, right? Some of the things that cause it, other than the genetic component component, um, it was, there was a study done. I couldn't cite it for you. You can't tell who it was, but I remember reading the study and it showed that people who drove different paths to the same place could stave off and mitigate Alzheimer's by a significant amount.
It's not like, it's not like you're never gonna get Alzheimer's, but it was statistically relevant amount that you could stave off Alzheimer's. So every time, like I got a Walmart about four miles from here, every time I go to Walmart, I'll go a different route. So like, obviously you go to Walmart enough, you're gonna [01:38:00] go the same way, but I'll never go the same way twice.
Riley: You park in a different lane every time you get there.
Mike: I do,
Riley: Nice.
Mike: to a different area. Yep.
Riley: That's so funny, man, that you say that. 'cause that, that's probably something I'll, I'll try now. 'cause I, I'm the creature of habit. pretty sure
Mike: Yeah.
Riley: both my vehicles can just point themselves to Team Rhino. Right. I can put the key in and just tell 'em it's a Tuesday night and then it'll land at Team Rhino somehow and it'll probably go the same direction. Oh my
Mike: Yep.
Riley: All right. What's your
Mike: Yeah, so that's quirky pizza. No doubt about it. I love pizza.
Riley: dude, you were on that a quick draw.
Mike: Oh yeah, yeah. Erica gives me such a hard time. So whenever we go back to to Oregon, there's a pizza spot. And she, so we've been married for 17 years and she, she didn't know this about me, but she's always like, that pizza place sucks. Why do you go there?
It doesn't suck, by the way. It doesn't, but it's a [01:39:00] local pizza spot. And, uh, I go there, it's, 'cause it was where I, when I was on a recruiting trip in high school, they took me there for lunch. And so I was like, hell yeah, this is my place. So it has like an emotional attachment, but
Riley: I
Mike: for sure.
Riley: So is it deep, deep dish? Is it thin crust? Is it what, what,
Mike: It's,
Riley: going on there?
Mike: it's not quite deep dish. It's, but it's not thin crust either. It's like a really light, fluffy crust, but not big. And, and it's not like a Papa Murphy's or like a Mountain Mike's type. It's a little bit thinner, a little bit lighter. And it's almost like you can, even though the pieces are relatively big, you can eat probably 50% more than you normally would.
'cause the crust is so light. It's got like that little pepperoni that kind of bowls up a little bit. So good. So good.
Riley: I wonder, I [01:40:00] wanna know the physics behind the cupping pepperoni. Why doesn't all do that?
Mike: I know. And it's like the little kind, it's not the the big stuff you buy in the store. Oh man, I'm getting hungry now.
Riley: my gosh, dude, Mike, what was, what's the scariest moment in your life?
Mike: Uh, so my, um, my youngest, he's 10 now. I was at a football field just like working out. I was like running sprints or something like that. And he was,
he was, I took him down there with me. I wanna say. He was like, he was crawling and I think he might've even been walking, but there was, the way the, the football field was set up was like the stadium and then it was like fenced off, so you couldn't come onto the field unless the gate was open or whatever.
But there was a section of the gate that had been like, pulled [01:41:00] away and so he was able to get through there. So I had him sat down on the field and I'm running around doing his wind sprints, just working out. And he's like sitting there playing with some toys or something and like eating on his goldfish or whatever, and thinking, I'm explaining this because people will be like, you're such a terrible parent.
But like, he was sitting there. Didn't think he could go anywhere. Right. Because the, the stadium's fenced off the, the tracks fence, like you just couldn't get through. But he had squeezed through this like little hole thing in the gate of the fence where like, I know probably like dogs or cats or something they'd like squeeze their way through there.
Or maybe even like small high school kids just being fool fools or whatever. Um, he had managed to get through there and step up the stairs of stadium and he had like, you got the stadium seat right? And then the next one and the next one there's a gap underneath those that falls down. So he's like eight months, 10 months, something like that.
Less than a year I think. [01:42:00] And he had crawled up there or walked up there and then slipped down and kind of ping ponged his way down underneath that stadium and hit the ground and all of this within like the time that it takes somebody to run a hundred meters, so maybe 12 to 15 seconds. And he had ping ponged his way down there and I looked over and I didn't see him and then I heard him cry and saw him underneath there and I was like, holy, like.
Dang. So ran over there, grabbed him, he was like heavily concussed, just totally out of it. And I was like, the whole time I'm like sobbing as a father. I was like, oh my God, I just killed my son. Like he's dead brain dead. He's gonna be a vegetable. It's pretty terrifying moment for, I, I jokingly laugh about it now, but man, it was scary as hell in the moment.
Like I would, yeah, it was a bad situation.
Riley: Yeah. That's scary, man. I [01:43:00] your kids get hurt is kind of, yeah. It's hard to even think about,
Mike: Yeah.
Riley: about. Mike. What's the, the best advice you've ever received?
Mike: Forgive them.
Doesn't even really matter. Who Just forgive.
Riley: Oh, I, I'm, I didn't hear you broke up there. So you said
Mike: Oh, forgive them. Yeah.
Riley: You have a situation in mind where you've had to exercise that.
Mike: Um, I mean, everybody's probably got a [01:44:00] lot. Um. I would say,
Riley: Okay.
Mike: yeah, I had, um, the one that jumps to mind most immediately was I had a coworker when I was just, just coming outta college. And we had, we had some pretty severe, like, I shouldn't say severe, some strong privacy policies just 'cause the nature of the job. And I had, um, I had a girlfriend at the time that came into my place of work, which I shouldn't have done, but she came in, brought me lunch, something like that.
It was super late at night and I had a coworker that found out about it and like, did I do something wrong? Yes. Is it the best way for the coworker to handle it? No, she went straight to management owners were all whatever, [01:45:00] and then basically threw me under the bus. And I held on a lot of resentment for that for a long time.
Just 'cause we were really, really close, really like really close friends. And even outside of the wor uh, outside of the job. And I held onto that for a long time and I was sitting in church one day and this, the message, this is like years later after the friendship had already kind of digressed and fallen apart.
At the time I didn't even know where they were. And, um. The message was something like, I don't know why I had it on my heart, but I'd been thinking about it several days before. And it's one of those messages in church where it just like hits you and you're like, oh dude, you were talking to me. Even though I'm sitting in a congregation of like 600 people, you were talking to me.
So it was just about forgiveness and letting go. And it doesn't necessarily mean that you're okay with what happened, and it doesn't mean that you forget about the pain and struggle and challenges of what happened. It just means that you give [01:46:00] grace and forgiveness to the situation so that you can let it go.
And you don't have to live with like, live with trying to fight against it all the time.
Riley: If you, uh, you know, in turn had advice to give others, what would it be?
Mike: Riley Rogers bringing that heat.
Riley: Well, just some of these would be heavier.
Mike: Yeah. Um,
don't wait.
That's what I would say. Don't wait. There's, um,
Riley: forgive or don't wait for.
Mike: anything like the day, there's never gonna be a perfect opportunity for anything, whether it's.[01:47:00]
Like chasing the dream, opening a coffee shop, like proposing buying the house, buying the car. Like there's never, there's never a right time for it. And if you wait, then there's never gonna be a right time like I told. So as a car guy, I told Erica a few months ago, I was like, Hey, we're gonna get to 15 stores by the end of the year and I want you to know that when we do that, I'm gonna go buy my Ferrari.
And it's like, it's 'cause I've spent the last 20 years just waiting for the perfect opportunity and it's never gonna be there. So you have to create it and you just have to go do it and figure it out. And you can't let fear, you can't let the naysayers, you can't let the situation, the economy, whatever BS excuse you wanna put in front of yourself, it's never gonna be a perfect.
So you just need to, at some point, you just need to go do it.[01:48:00]
Riley: Just gotta tell her what Riley's waiting to go for a ride in that car. So,
Mike: Oh yeah. Riley and I are gonna go for a ride in that car.
Riley: oh, I, my next question was gonna ask you what, what's an item on your bucket list? But it sounds like that's an item on your bucket list. Ferrari
Mike: I,
Riley: spot, huh?
Mike: oh yeah, for sure. Yeah. Um, the, well, the, the Ferrari from the First Bad Boys movie is what made me fall in love with cars. Um,
Riley: was that?
Mike: I, um, I'm like 99% s Sure. It was a, uh, 360 modina,
so it was like the first, one of the first like real, like elegant ones that they had in the late nineties. Before that they were all kind of still that, that boxy like F 40 look.
Riley: Yeah, I think, I think, I think the tester the greatest looking car in history. I, that car,
Mike: Yeah.
Riley: 'cause it's so eighties. [01:49:00] Right. But
Mike: Mm-hmm.
Riley: God, that thing, just,
Mike: It's pretty sweet.
Riley: of those in purpose or on in person, excuse me, the, just the ratios of the height and the width and the shape of that car is something that, yeah, I would, I would love to play around in a tester. Man.
Mike: that'd be sweet. Um, I think bucket list stuff, like, I'd love to go to Europe. I think that'd be super cool. I think, um,
Riley: there you'd like to see?
Mike: um, probably as a history junkie, I think I'd probably like to go to Rome, um, watching a sumo match in person. Like a real high level one. Like a high, high level whatever league or, or however that's broken up, like the highest level sumo.
That'd be super cool to see in Japan. I would love to see that. I think sumo wrestling is so awesome. Um. Going to, um, an F1 race. I think that'd be super cool. [01:50:00] Um, there's probably three bucket listings right there. There's probably more, but
Riley: well, two of those can happen in Europe, right?
Mike: Yeah. Yeah, exactly. Yeah. I was reading about, um, I was reading about, uh, F1, the, the Monaco, the Monaco F1, and how they've got the boats right up there on the road and like how much it costs for people to, to like dock a yacht there. I was like, geez, that's so much money. It'd be super cool, but man, that'd be awesome to see from there.
Riley: That would be such a wild event to see. That track is so crazy, man. I,
Mike: yeah.
Riley: I've raced on that in video games a lot and just
Mike: Mm-hmm.
Riley: of what that's really has to be like, uh, it would be a frightening place to race that
Mike: Oh yeah.
Riley: man, those guardrails are
Mike: Yeah. You, uh, come out of the, straight out of the tunnel. So you hit the, the side, [01:51:00] the sidewall where you've got the ocean on the one side, and then you hit the tunnel and then right out of the tunnel you're right into the corner, like to city center. Oh, dude, that'd be terrifying.
Riley: Yeah, that Chica right there is nasty.
Mike: Yep.
Riley: there's sort of the, it's still a chica, it's a bigger version of it, but it, oh man. It's just, I know trying to cut those lines in the, in the video games is crazy, but what would it be like at actual G-Force and
Mike: Yeah.
Riley: a real car where impacts are, yeah, life changing.
So it'd be be amazing. Um, Mike, what's your favorite book?
Mike: Oh dang. That's a good question. Um,
I've got, so[01:52:00]
I've got two that jump out right away. I don't know that I could, I mean, really, there's probably, I don't know, dude, I could list off several. Uh, I like thinking fast and thinking slow, or thinking fast and slow by Daniel Kahneman. I like never split the difference. I like the power of moments. I like unreasonable hospitality.
I like extreme ownership. Um, I like be our guest. Those are some that jump out right away to me, all for different reasons, but. I'd have to say those are all like top favorites for different, different reasons.
Riley: Sounds like very fitting for your industry, man. Yeah,
Mike: yeah. [01:53:00] Yeah. I, I mean, yeah, I, I think it's being beneficial for everybody if I'm being honest. Like those are just skills that I think everybody could benefit from. But anyway, I
Riley: that never split the difference. I've read that that extreme ownership, both of those are, yeah, you're right. That's good for everybody. Those are good skills to learn. Where can you be found on the social medias?
Mike: social media, um, so on Instagram I've got, uh, coach m Howell at, at Coach m Howell. And then, uh, just I'm on Facebook. I'm not on there a whole lot. Mostly for, if, if I'm being honest, I go on there patrol people who say stupid things or to buy like the marketplace stuff. Um, and then Instagram is where I do a lot of my presence, um, either for coaching stuff or for coffee shop stuff.
I think, to be honest, I'm probably here in the next, not so very long, I'm going to start shifting, um, personal brand if you will, [01:54:00] towards more coffee, hospitality oriented stuff that, that's kinda where I am at. And if you wanna see what wild things is up to, we're at, uh, at Wild Things Coffee Co. Do. Um.
Instagram is at Wild Things Coffee Co. And our website is wild things coffee.com.
Riley: Man, Mike, dude, I appreciate you coming on today, dude, it's been such a pleasure. And I, uh, yeah, I'm just wishing you well on these ventures. Dude, you got so much going on, so like, just so many plates spinning and, and, uh, I'm rooting for you, dude.
Mike: Thanks. Appreciate it man.
Riley: Yep. Go Earn Your SALT, my friend.
[01:55:00]