Jeremy Kuntz: [00:00:00] I told Angela's story a lot because everybody, when they see you, how's Angela? . Um, I told her story and it, and, and you almost get exhausted from telling the story. Um, I would've loved to somebody say, Hey man, let's go grab coffee.
I'm gonna talk. And for, have a buddy of mine to say, Hey dude, how are you doing? Which everybody wants to know how Angela's doing, which I, I totally understand, but I can't think of very many times that I ever had somebody say, Hey, how are you doing?
That would've been cool.
[00:01:00]
Riley: . Today we've got my friends Jeremy and Angela . They have just incredible story, incredible background, and I invited 'em on here today because over the years as I've learned more and more about them and the things they're involved in and their life story, um, it's just pretty inspiring.
So, Jeremy, Angela, welcome to the show.
Angela: Thank you.
Jeremy Kuntz: thanks for having us
Riley: Yeah, it's my pleasure for sure. So listen, um, if each of you could take a second and just introduce yourself, talk about your life, where you grew up, um, what life was like as a kid. It'd be awesome.
Jeremy Kuntz: go.
Angela: So I actually am a native Idahoan, born and raised here. Born and raised in Emmett Idaho. I've lived in the Treasure Valley all my [00:02:00] life for most of my life. I was raised by a single mom. My dad was actually killed in a motorcycle accident when I was 11 years old. So my mom raised me and my sister, who's actually only about 11 months older than I am. Um, um, from about 11 on, um, I have lived in either Boise, Nampa, or Emmett pretty much all my life. I, uh, went to college at Boise State, first one in my family to go to college and graduate. a criminal justice degree in there over there, and just kinda hang, you know, met, met Jeremy and been hanging out in this area ever since.
Riley: What was the attraction to criminal justice for you?
Angela: Uh, an easy a I had messed up my freshman year in college. I had first time experiencing freedom and wasn't going to classes, and I didn't even know anything about criminal justice. I, I really had somebody who lived in the dorms who said, if you need to bring your GPA up, you should take a criminal justice class. Uh, it's the easiest day you're, [00:03:00] you're ever gonna get. And I'm like, I need that. how I, that's seriously how I even heard about criminal justice.
Riley: After Jeremy's intro? We're gonna take that from there though, because you got bit by a bug in there somewhere
Angela: I.
Riley: it became more than just an easy A, but Jeremy, tell us about yourself.
Jeremy Kuntz: Yeah. Uh, I was born in Glenda, Montana. Um, we moved to Idaho. I moved, uh, my mom, my dad got a job, uh, in, uh, was working for Butchery Foods and he got assistant manager job up in Lewiston, Idaho. And then, um, then ended up getting a manager job down in Boise. So we moved down to Boise. Um, I think I was in third grade when we moved down to Boise area.
Um, so I, and I've been here pretty much ever since, other than when I graduated high school, I moved back to my hometown, uh, working for my uncle. Um, he owned a bulk plant called for more distributing and we hauled fuel for Exxon. Um, and I hauled fuel for, [00:04:00] uh, him to farmers and Santa gravel pits and so on and so forth.
Um, had my CDL and did that kind of stuff for a little while, and then mom, um, used to call me up every night crying, asking me to come home. So, um, I came home and, uh, went to Boise State and, uh, was gonna become a fish and game officer. And, um, I was working with the fish and game, um, at volunteer basis, working check stations and so on and so forth.
And, uh, while I was doing that and going to school, um, I had a buddy that came to my house one day and said, Hey man, uh, there's an opening for electrical, um, out at where he worked at. And I was like, um, okay, what's it pay? And he told me what they paid and I was like, wow, that's a lot more than a fishing game officer.
So, yeah. So I, uh, I went down there and applied and got it and, uh, got into school and, uh, became an electrician. So other than that, it's,
Riley: When you say electrician,
Jeremy Kuntz: yeah.[00:05:00]
Riley: talk a little bit about the type of work you guys do because it's not your, your normal stuff.
Jeremy Kuntz: No. So, um, yeah, I mean I went through school and became a journeyman electrician and, um, you know, worked my way up, worked at different places. Um, I was non-union for, I went to Boise State for my electrical degree also. Um, and then, um, at some point we decided, um, that I didn't want to do the, uh, uh, union or the do the regular stuff anymore.
So, um, I ended up joining the union and uh, which was great for us 'cause they had great benefits and they paid really well. Um, and then when I hired on, I hired on, uh, with Quality Electric for two years and then I ended up coming over to Powerplus and, um, I've kind of worked my way up in the ranks here.
Um, I'm now, uh, I don't work with my tools much anymore. Um, I estimate Project Manage, um, I'm vice president of the company. Um, but that's kind [00:06:00] of just a title. It's, you know, somebody's gotta sign checks and so on and so forth. So, um, I've worked, you know, other guys in our office work just as hard as I do.
Um, it's just, except for on my end, um, I got into, um, as you were stating, uh, I got into the, the signal end of things. So we do the civil, the civil work, the dirt work, um, installing conduit and, and, uh, wire and uh, signal poles. And we do signal foundations and we build signals and, uh, build lighting, um, ITS systems.
Um, all the stuff that has to do with ITD and A CHD. And yeah, we build, build all that fun stuff. So kind of, kind of, uh, uh, uh, what do I wanna say? Um, an ouch branch of electrical, still electrical, but kind of a, um, I don't know what to say. They're just that out branch of it. So not ev not a lot of people do it, so,
Riley: So listen, you, um, you gotta remember that not all of us listen to this [00:07:00] podcast are in the business. So you used a lot of letters in there,
Jeremy Kuntz: yeah.
Riley: of abbreviations. So
Jeremy Kuntz: Yeah.
Riley: when you say, when you say signals, um, define that for us. Who retards, who are not, you know,
Jeremy Kuntz: Yeah.
Riley: aware what you
Jeremy Kuntz: We build traffic signals. So as you pull up at an intersection, you got the red, yellow and green lights and the steel signal poles and the video detection, um, the, the stuff that tells the car, you know, the signal when there's cars in the, the intersection and it triggers them to go. And then they have what's called an opticon system, which that's the system that when the emergency vehicle comes through, it turns everything red except for the direction that firetruck is going.
And, um, you know, there's just lots of different systems that, you know, the average person, uh, that drives through a signals intersection every day doesn't see or know about. Um, but there's a lot of stuff that goes into it. Um, you know, everything from fiber that interconnects all the signals together that [00:08:00] times and coordinates them together.
Um, there's a lot, just a lot of neat, interesting stuff to it. A lot of control work.
Riley: Yeah. So that's, that's your niche. That's,
Jeremy Kuntz: Yeah.
Riley: man.
Jeremy Kuntz: Yeah.
Riley: So you don't know this, but somebody asked me the other day, Hey, when you have Jeremy on there, will you ask him if those stupid little buttons at the crosswalk that everybody beats to death or even connected to anything,
Jeremy Kuntz: Yes, they are.
Riley: are they.
Jeremy Kuntz: Yes, they are. They, they are a momentary contact. You can hit them as fast and as long as you want. It works the very first time. Um, yes, it's a momentary contact, but it has to go through the different phases. So the pedestrian phases are 2, 4, 6, and eight. And then you have vehicle traffic depending on if it's turning or going straight.
And they're, you know, two and seven, four and eight, so on and so forth. And of course you can't, they can't just stop traffic automatically to let a pedestrian through. It's gotta go through the cycle and through the phases of the way the signal is controlled before it's gonna let you go. But [00:09:00] yes, they do.
They te they do make a call to this controller cabinet that tells 'em there's a pedestrian standing on which corner.
Riley: So all that thing's really doing is turning the little walk shaped guy on.
Jeremy Kuntz: Yes,
Riley: it's your
Jeremy Kuntz: correct.
Riley: change traffic.
Jeremy Kuntz: It, it does the countdown and it doesn't allow traffic that could hit you to go through other than the free right turns, which should be looking out for you, but don't always, so even as a pedestrian, be careful.
Riley: Yeah, for sure. Okay. Now that we've got that controversy out of the way, Angela, I want to come back to you in the, the bug that bit you in the criminal justice world. So you went in there for an easy A and you came out of there with a life calling.
Angela: Yeah,
Riley: talk,
Angela: so
Riley: talk
Angela: I, um, one of the things you had to do in this, it was an intro to criminal justice class, just a basic understanding, but one of the requirements for the class was you had to take, or you had to go on a ride along. And my ride along was on a night shift with the Boise police officer. I had never really been [00:10:00] around police before.
I mean, I'd been stomped by a few 'cause I have a lead foot. Um, but I, um, went to the do this ride along and we had two calls all night long. One of 'em was a domestic violence call, and at that time I truly didn't understand the dynamics of domestic violence and this um, after they had arrested her husband. started fighting with the officer and the officer's hands actually got bloody, 'cause he's got his hands on the taking the guy to the car and she's fighting and scratching and we go back to the station and I, I wasn't quite understanding what happened. Um, and we talked through it a little bit. And then our next call was a man with a gun call. got a run code across Boise. Um, and, and I was a civilian writer. I couldn't get out of the car, but they put the suspect in my car he was right behind me and he's screaming and cussing and kicking my seat. And you have of two
Jeremy Kuntz: Okay.
Angela: You're either like, oh my gosh, I'm so scared, I've gotta get outta here. Or I [00:11:00] was like, think get paid to do this. I, I, and I was hooked. I mean that adrenaline. Um, and, uh, I did not wanna get outta there. I wanted to be investigating. I wanted to be talking to him. So I started taking more criminal justice classes and I had a opportunity to do an internship with the Nampa Police Department my senior year in college. And I worked part-time with the child Abuse Unit and part-time with the City County Narcotics Unit. And when I graduated, because I did, I had a dream of becoming a, I wanted to go to work for the DEA, the Drug Enforcement Administration. I thought I was gonna travel the country, work undercover narcotics, which is funny 'cause I'm a ho, I'm a native Idahoan, I'm a homebody.
I don't know why I thought I was traveling the world, but when I graduated college, they thought I looked young enough to go back to high school. So I got hired by the City County Narcotics Unit to do a 21 jump street gig, if you will. They took me straight outta college and I went [00:12:00] undercover for two months in Caldwell High School, going from, you know, uh, being a college graduate to hanging out with people who were using drugs and selling drugs.
And, uh, I did that for two months and then I did about six months undercover work after that, before I officially started with Nampa as a patrol officer.
Riley: Dang. So you were the undercover narc at the, at the high school, huh?
Angela: I was for two months. Yep.
Riley: So did people didn't recognize you, huh? You must.
Angela: No, and the only person in the school who knew I was a police officer was the principal. So if there was a, an emergency or something, he, you know, he could, um, he would know what was going on. Ironically though, again, I'm a born in this area. My eighth grade English teacher from Emmett was now teaching at Caldwell High School.
He knew, he knew me. It, you know, how you see somebody and it's not quite the right environment. And my biology teacher's wife was [00:13:00] also teaching there. Um, so it was an interesting, um, dynamic. I did a presentation at the end of it because we didn't just want it to be about me coming in and, you know, buying drugs and not doing anything.
I actually went in and did, did a presentation for all of the teachers, all the staff, so they could understand how I was actually making drug deals in their classrooms. When I was talking about, uh, getting a paper, I wasn't being a good student. Um, they just needed to be educated related to what was happening seriously in their classrooms.
Riley: It is so wild. Yeah. So there's a kind of a code, code words for different things, huh?
Angela: Yeah, just depending, I mean, if you're talking about, you know, like a quarter paper that you're, you know, gonna get meth or cocaine or something like that in or, yeah. And, and we were talking about it in class, in government class.
Riley: That seems wild that Jeremy, you never told me that story. That she got to go be a undercover in, in high school.
Jeremy Kuntz: You could do [00:14:00] a four hour podcast on the stuff she does. It's, it's way more interesting than what I do. I remember it
Riley: Yeah.
Jeremy Kuntz: we were younger that we would, uh, you know, we just had kids and, or even before we had kids, I'd get home from work and it's kinda like, Hey, how was your day? And she'd tell me all the stuff that she did and, you know, we arrested this person and we took this person down and I did an interview with this and we ran code and did that.
And then it was like, well, what was your day? And I was like, well, I bent some pipe and pulled some wire. So, you know, it's not quite as glamorous.
Riley: Oh my gosh. You like downplay what you're doing. But yeah, I, um, I get a kick out of it because, you know, I, I understand enough about construction and been, was in that world long enough where I kind of geek out on what you do, Jeremy. So I, I I think it's cool, but I, uh, yeah, it's, I I understand
Jeremy Kuntz: Yeah,
Riley: action movie over here
Jeremy Kuntz: yeah,
Riley: doing her
Jeremy Kuntz: exactly. [00:15:00] Yeah. So the difference between watching the guy on the street versus watching an action movie and somebody, you know, running code down the road 90 miles an hour and sirens so.
Angela: What did he tell you, Riley? That he, um, when he used to come and ride with me, um, that's actually, he told me about wanting to become a fish and game officer, which is why I had given him my phone number. We weren't dating or anything at this point, he called and wanted to come do a ride along with me. And the very first time he rode with me, it was like the busiest day shift Sunday I've ever had in my entire career. He's like, oh, I wanna do this too. But then, you know, it's not always like that and he's like, we have to drive around for four hours. This is really boring.
Riley: You know, I've mentioned on this podcast before, um, with a couple of law enforcement people I've had on here that when I closed my construction company back in the end, 2009, a friend of mine that worked for Ada County had invited me to come down and apply at Ada County. He's like, Hey, we have some positions open and I [00:16:00] I think I could get you an interview anyways.
And weighed that for about 10 minutes before I realized I was not the guy for the job. 'cause I'd partly, I'd been on some ride-alongs, and there was a couple things that really stood out to me. One was the ridiculous amount of paperwork that had to go on, and I knew I would hate that, it's a big part of the job. And then two was the, in, just in the few ride-alongs I did the amount of just people that I just, I could not understand. And I just, I didn't have that heart form 'em. I had this like, you're an idiot and you should just go straight to jail. You've seen those, those memes, you know, straight to jail. And that's how I felt.
So I was like, now I'm gonna be terrible. I'd be terrible at that job. So I gave up. It was, yeah, iron. Talk about this. 'cause I, I want both of you guys a side of this thing, right? Jeremy, you're, you're doing ridealongs with this and, and it sounds like some of those feelings I had were kind of, you were seeing some of the same thing.
Like, man, you gotta sit in this car all freaking day and,
Jeremy Kuntz: Yeah.
Riley: [00:17:00] and watch this. Um, yeah. Talk about that a little bit.
Jeremy Kuntz: Um, you know, there was some really interesting things. Um, you know, back when we were dating, the rules were a little more relaxed. Um, I, you know, normally you have to sign a paper and every time you go to ride, and mine was just kind of on file because that was kind of our date night. Uh, she was working night shifts.
I was working during the day. It was the only time we got to spend together is if I went and went and did a ride along. So a lot of times I'd go ride on Friday and Saturday with her. Um, obviously not during the week very often 'cause I had to get up and go to work. But, um, sometimes I'd go down, maybe only ride till 10, but on like Fridays and Saturdays I'll ride all night long with her and then go home, go to bed.
Um, so yeah, there was some, there were some great cool things. Uh, seeing some stuff that, um. I guess it was eye-opening to the average citizen. Um, you know, whether, yeah, I mean there was, you know, [00:18:00] party breakups and, you know, some shot fires type stuff. But, um, there were some other things that were kind of scary, um, that kind of freaked me out a little bit.
And it was, um, I don't know if I want you doing this stuff. But then after I watched her take care of a few situations, I realized, wow, she can handle herself just fine. Um, not that I didn't worry about her, but um, but yeah, when it comes, overall, I would say there is a lot of times spent, um, filling out paperwork.
There's a lot of time just driving around. Um, Angela wasn't real big on chasing taillights, you know, writing regular tickets to vehicles. Um, in fact, she kind of used to say, well, I, I break that rule every once in a while. I can't write a ticket if I do that. So, you know, you, you would really, you would've to be like 12 over before she's even gonna touch you.
So, um, so yeah, we would drive around a long [00:19:00] time, uh, with nothing to do. And there were some shifts. You might get one call, but then there's other times you go and you all of, you don't even get outta briefing and, and you're, you know, you're already running. And we ran. All night long. So, um, you know, there's that little, uh, time period at night, you know, kind of between three and four that things go pretty dead.
But, um, yeah, it's, it was interesting. It was definitely, it, it was an eye-opener for me. I.
Riley: And I, I talked to a friend of mine that's a firefighter, and you talk about those days when there's all these calls that happen, just boom, boom, boom, boom. Those busy days. He was telling me his record and it's, they work, you know, 24 hours at a time, right? They'll do two 20 fours yeah, he said his record in a 24 hour period was 30 calls. And I thought, I'm doing the math on that. I'm like, every time I see firefighters doing anything, it's like they're standing around for so long, how do they do, [00:20:00] know, more than one call an hour. But he said they, they learned, 'cause they were in a busy district and they'd have to do that, you know? I imagine those, that same stuff happened with you, Angela.
Angela: Yeah. Well, and I worked in Nampa, so, um, we, we, Nampa is a busier area. We just, we respond, we don't have calls. We're like, oh, we don't go to that kind of thing. I mean, they've changed it a little bit, but just Nampa is just a busy area. I, I laugh when you talked about the firefighters. When I started, there were no female officers.
I was the only female. And when we would go out to calls the fire guys, they had to stay outside, um, until I went in and told them it was safe and they could come in. So I used, I, I knew all the firefighters back then, and I love to get, I, I would say, okay, no, no, you guys stay here. I'll make sure you're safe and you can come in, in a minute.
I'll let you know.
Riley: That is hilarious. So,
Angela: Yeah.
Riley: um, yeah, talk about that a little bit because I, I think that's, people always view firefighters, like all they're doing is fighting fire. Right. But there was other stuff going on that they [00:21:00] would respond to behind you guys.
Angela: Absolutely. And, and sometimes their calls would turn into our need. Um, one of my homicide cases came in as a medical call, um, and they were very key on this case with this 3-year-old, um, before we even get called out as law enforcement. So they get called, actually more of their calls are medical calls, responding to, you know, uh, somebody who's got a possible heart attack, responding to a car crash because of possible injury and treating the medical out there as opposed to actually fighting a fire there.
A lot of medical calls they go to.
Riley: Yeah. Yeah. I think that's, I I heard a percentage one time, but it's the vast majority of
Angela: Yes,
Riley: medical stuff.
Angela: yes.
Riley: Um, Jeremy, you had mentioned having concerns about Angela on the job and, and feeling as a spouse. Man, I don't know if I want you doing some of this dangerous stuff,
Jeremy Kuntz: Yeah.
Riley: Can you, can you fill in a little bit of that at.
Jeremy Kuntz: Um, [00:22:00] yeah, I mean there's, I mean, obviously when, you know, once we were married and especially when we had kids, um, she was on call a lot. Uh, once we, once we got married, she kind of got off the, the patrol thing, but she was in detectives, um, crimes against people, um, section of the police department. Um, it was really, it was difficult because she got called out a lot.
Um, infected, almost got to the point. When she would get phone calls in the middle of the night, which she would always get phone calls in the middle of the night, sometimes I wouldn't even hear them. 'cause I was so used to, in fact, I wouldn't know that a phone call came in until she was literally, I'd walk in, you know, in the bathroom talking to somebody.
Or, um, I'd wake up and she wasn't there. And she was in the craft room talking to somebody, you know, about a case and what they should do and whether or not she had to go in and, uh, which most of the time she did go in. Um, Angela, um, is, uh, [00:23:00] very dedicated, um, when it comes to victims, um, situations. She wants it handled correctly.
Um, so she would 90% of the time go in. Um, yeah, there were times that, um, I think I, I was, I was nervous, um, over the situations. 'cause obviously she's dealing with the worst of the worst in society. Um, she would, you know, talk about her cases and sometimes I had to say, honey, I, I don't want to hear about that.
Um, because it kind of got to my psyche a little bit. You know, when you're, when you're talking about, you know, a, a little kid being. Mistreated and abused. Uh, we don't like to think about those things in society and she's seeing that every day. And, and it kind of got to the point where I had to say, I, I can't hear about all this stuff all the time.
There's gotta be someplace [00:24:00] else that you can go to talk about this. I don't mind talking to you about having a hard day. I just don't want all the details. Uh, 'cause it's really tough. Um, they police officers deal with some really, really bad people in this world, um, in bad situations. And so I don't think there was a, a little time that I was worried about her getting hurt.
But after I watched her, you know, being on call, I don't think I really worried about it as much other than when she did get the knife pulled on her, um, the one time. Um, and that kind of freaked her out too, when she kind, it was before we had kids. And, and she seriously thought about maybe dropping, uh, out of being a police officer, which I, we sat down and talked a lot about it and we kind of got that all figured out that, Hey, this is your passion.
This is your call. Um, this is what you, you were, you were born to do. You, you can't let being scared, [00:25:00] um, pull you away from what's what you're being called to do. So yeah, that's kind of, you know, there are a lot of interruptions in life, um, when it came to kids. Uh, we very seldom, uh, if we did go out, we always took separate vehicles.
Um, and mainly because you never knew when she was gonna called out. And even though they would, it was set up that they would be on call for a week at a time, you know, supposed to be every four weeks or six weeks. That was never the case with Angela just because of the position she held and where she was in in, uh, detectives.
Um, she was the highest, I, I don't, I'm gonna say ranked, but probably had the most, uh, well, I know had the most skillset, um, in that division at that time when our kids were little. And it was, uh, super difficult to, uh, to go do anything without her being called out. So it was always, you know, two vehicles. I know multiple times we'd go to dinner and she'd get called [00:26:00] out.
Um, I'd have to bring dinner home, bring the kids home, um, hockey games, baseball games, whatever it may be. Uh, you know, it just, it happened a lot and it, and it, I wouldn't say it, it bothered me a ton. There were certain times I think it bothered me, but it it's part of the job. You, you just kind of go, okay.
Yeah, I mean, this is what I signed up for, so.
Riley: We had a couple on here, uh, rich and Jen Jones, and they were, they were both police officers in San Francisco's Tenderloin district. And story's fascinating, but they talked a lot about the same thing. And they just, all those on-call, one of 'em is getting called consistently. And so they would do the same stuff.
They had to two vehicles everywhere and everything was, life was interrupted on a regular basis.
Jeremy Kuntz: yeah.
Riley: Yeah. Um, Angela, talk about this. 'cause you mentioned you were the only female for a while on the, called what? Excuse me. It was Nampa [00:27:00] Police Force. Right. Um, when you, I want you to talk about the, the realistic, 'cause every, you get a certain amount of hands-on training.
Right. And you have to go hands-on with, with people oftentimes larger than you. You're not a very, very big lady.
Angela: I think I'm six foot,
Riley: Yeah. But you're not. I, so, but, but talk about the precautions, right? Because there's, there's some, there's some real physical limits there. Right. And I want, I want to hear your side of that and kind of what that looked like and what things you would do to keep yourself safe out there.
Angela: so I will be on. So, Nampa. Well, when I first started, when I was telling you about the City county Narcotics Unit, I had no training. I hadn't been through a police academy. I hadn't, I had nothing when they sent me undercover, which is crazy when I think about what a liability that was. But when I got hired, um, Nampa is very progressive with their [00:28:00] training, uh, with our, you know, quarterly trainings with our arrest, take speech training with our handcuffing training.
You know, you get more of that in the academy, but Nampa does. Above and beyond on that, right? So we, you know, whether it's ground fighting, you know, and I would come home to Jeremy, okay, I learned today. try and grab me. Or,
Riley: me he almost had to call someone else to get you off him sometimes.
Jeremy Kuntz: Yeah. Yes.
Angela: you know, it was that. But one of the things that I say was most beneficial to me is, I, um, uh, communication's very effective in calming people down. I actually became a hostage negotiator for our department for 10 years, because I'm really, really good at talking to people and calming them down. tell people, for the most part in my career, I could talk myself into and out of every situation I got myself into. I think being a female, there are still people who, you know, like they would be cussing and yelling and then they would, oh, pardon me, ma'am. You know, it, to [00:29:00] me. And, and I carried myself as a female. I, I didn't try to pretend like I was one of the guys. I, you know, I, I never fell into that. I'm gonna act like one of the guys, or I'm gonna be one of the guys.
I'm just gonna be me, and I'm gonna communicate with them that way. Um, I had a defense attorney who one time said he hated getting clients that had me as their cop because people thought I was their mom or their counselor, and they, you know, would talk to me and work with me and cooperate with me. and in my entire career, what I would consider real physical fights, probably less than 10 in my entire 27 year career.
Riley: Yeah. And there's, I love what you said about the, the verbal part. Right? The conversational part because I, I mean, we've all seen the videos of, you know, cops gone rogue when they, they lose their cool, right.
Angela: Yes.
Riley: And the only reason they made YouTube is 'cause there's these few instances when that happens. that, that verbal deescalation, [00:30:00] I think is such a big deal.
Angela: Yeah.
Riley: and that, I don't know if I've ever told you this story, but, um, of the, one of the youth group meetings at church, they asked me to go teach self-defense. They wanted self-defense. 'cause they know I'm a Juujitsu guy, right? it's, it's all these, you know, 12, 13-year-old girls in the, in the group we were in, it was all the, it was all the little girls.
Um, and the, I think their vision for me was I was gonna teach them how to be Navy Seals in an hour long class. Right. And, you know, I went in there and my, my biggest recommendation to these young ladies was not, Hey, I'm gonna teach you how to fight. I taught 'em a couple ways to break people's grips and run away and kind of things.
But it was, I gave them this tip. I said, if you'll avoid doing stupid things at stupid times with stupid people in stupid places. You're gonna avoid 99% of the problems in [00:31:00] life. So pick your friends wisely. Go to bed at 10 o'clock. 'cause nothing good happens after that. You know, it's, it's these, these real practical, like, here's how you avoid almost all of it and you want a handgun for the rest. we, when you talk about that a little bit,
Angela: You know what's funny? I actually get, I still get asked to do self-defense classes. Um, there's a, uh, I, I just did one probably two months ago out at Nmpa Christian. They bring these, these group of girls together and have me come and talk to them. And so I always tell them, this is probably not gonna be what you thought it was gonna be.
I'm not gonna teach you 60 different moves. I'm not gonna teach you how to get outta everything you're possibly gonna get into because there's no way to predict that and trauma's gonna impact your brain. Your prefrontal lobe's gonna go offline. And I tell 'em a little basics about that. But I tell them, I talk about mental preparedness and, uh, and just your awareness of your environment.
So one of the very first things I have them do is walk. I have one of 'em get up and walk by me, and I look at her the whole time. And then I turn around and I follow [00:32:00] her and I smile at her and it makes her very uncomfortable. And I, and, and they almost will always drop their heads when they're walking by.
And I said, you need to look up at people. People need to know you see them, and they need to know you see them if they're turning around watching you, and you need to walk like you're six foot. You know? And that's what I tell people all the time. And you know, I, I, I jokingly say in class, my mom raised me to believe I was six foot, took forever to figure I was only five nine. really,
Jeremy Kuntz: You are now five nine.
Angela: but I, but I carry myself that way. And I look, make eye contact with you and I will engage you. I will, you know, I won't stand with my back to you necessarily in an elevator. I might make you uncomfortable, but I'm gonna turn around and you're gonna see me. And that's one of the things that I teach them.
I also teach them about using their voices. Um, I, I actually make 'em stand up and yell No. And they're like, this feels so weird. We don't do this. And I make 'em yell, stop. And, you know, it's this stop. And I'm like, I'm not convinced. I'm not convinced you want me to stop anything. If they can't hear you downstairs in the weight room, [00:33:00] you're not yelling loud enough.
And you know, because especially females are not taught to do that kinda stuff, right. They're taught to be timid and, um, you know, it, it's just interesting. So, and I do teach them a few basic things. I teach them, you know, like if somebody's trying to grab hold of them, how to break holds, um, you know, I, I teach them, you know, what it look like to have a solid punch, you know, you know, don't worry about your little pretty fingernails, but, um, you know how to do.
And McKayley would tell you that at night, you know, when I'd come up to her bedroom and, and do a prayer with her. Um, she said, and then my mom would make me block, punch, kick.
Riley: Awesome.
Angela: We did learn to do that.
Riley: it. No, something you mentioned there about, um, just that timidness and sometimes politeness, right? We don't wanna sit and have direct eye contact with somebody necessarily. 'cause it's awkward.
Angela: Yeah.
Riley: And I, I saw a video just yesterday or last night, something where it was this lady in one of those 24 hour like fitness facilities [00:34:00] and it was like two in the morning and some guy come knocking on the door and she thought he was another member and she was the only person in the whole gym. Well, she let this guy in the door and he attacked her, which would've never happened if she would've just not tried to be polite and open that door. You
Angela: Absolutely
Riley: he had a membership
Angela: those cases.
Riley: had his own.
Angela: I worked one of those cases at a 24 hour fitness place and it was a member. But you know that late night, you know, people just let their guards down and
Riley: Yeah,
Angela: yeah.
Riley: yeah. We always wanna be polite, but again, if he had a membership, he could have just come in the door himself.
Angela: Yeah. One of the things I talk about in my trauma informed training is I talk about how when we deal with trauma, high stress and high fear, we fall back on habits and survival reflexes that we've developed over our lifetime, and we develop self protection habits that are polite. I, I I, with my class, I'll say, you were in first grade, how were you taught to deal with aggressive people?
How were you taught to deal with a boy, tell the teacher, oh, they [00:35:00] might like you, kill 'em with kindness. Ignore them. Right? Well, we learn this all through our life, and it becomes a habit that your brain will pull to when you are in trauma, when you are in high stress and high fear. And so we see, oh, please stop.
Please don't do that. Um, I don't want, you know, we, we see all these polite responses. You know, we don't see people turn around and yelling at people and being aggressive and don't, and stop you. Those aren't our habits that we develop.
Riley: Yeah, the first time you probably had those girls yell, stop that. It's almost stage fright happens, right? It's just so
Angela: And, and they're, they just kind of laugh and giggle and, um, and I tell them all the time, if you're not willing to practice these kinds of things, they're not gonna be there for you because you have to create a habit. So even when I teach self-defense and I tell them, I'm not gonna teach you all these moves, I'm gonna teach you a few, but I want you to practice them because if you don't practice it, and it does not become a habit.
So I tell people, if you're gonna carry mace, [00:36:00] if you're gonna carry these things, you have to practice with them. I don't tell people to carry guns because they don't go out and practice with them, and they're more likely to get hurt with that gun than they are to hurt somebody else. Um, same with, you know, you know, if you don't practice using your base or your pepper spray if you don't practice, all these things they put on key chains, they're just a, they're just a waste.
Riley: Absolutely. Absolutely. Jeremy, I've got a question, man, when you, and you can answer this or not, but was there ever times when you just the husband, part of you, some, some criminal, did something mean to your wife when you just wanted to go find that guy and beat the crap out of him?
Jeremy Kuntz: Um, I, there was actually an incident, um. Where, um, it was when the police department, what is at its old location and down below, um, the police department, they had holding cells down there. So they still took, [00:37:00] um, criminals that were being arrested over to Canon County Jail, but they had holding cells down below in the old place.
Um, and they had, um, arrested an individual, a younger man, um, and he was handcuffed to the outside of one of the holding cells. And I was downstairs and Angela and I had actually just came in and we went downstairs and this individual, uh, proceeded to call my wife some very, very filthy names. Um, and I lost it.
I was walking down the hallway down to go correct this individual with my fist. And, um, I was, I was stopped by another police officer that was on her team. Yeah. Actually, yeah, I stopped her sergeant stopped me, um, and pulled me back and then pulled me into his office. Actually, no, it [00:38:00] was the lieutenant that pulled me into her office, into his office, and everybody's like, oh, you're in trouble.
You're probably never gonna be able to ride again. All this stuff. And I'm scared. I'm like, oh, I screwed up here. So, um, because I proceed to call him a few things and tell him, you know, I was coming to get him. Um, he pulls me into his office and I was there with the lieutenant and the sergeant, and after the door closed, he goes, Jeremy, and I'm waiting for it.
And he goes, we feel the same exact way you are feeling right now because we care about Angela. She's like our daughter. She's like our, our our sister. Um, all these things. And we don't like it when that happens either, but we have to control our feelings. I understand exactly the way you feel and I would love to go down there and whip that kid's butt too, but we can't do that.
So I need you to promise me that you're going to take control of your feelings [00:39:00] and that this is just part of the job and you need to let it go. And I promised them that and they didn't kick me out and everything was good, but everybody thought I was gonna get, I was gonna get reamed by the lieutenant and the sergeant, but they were actually really cool with me about it.
So. But yeah, there, there are
Riley: in.
Jeremy Kuntz: definitely some times that, uh, yeah, I wanted to, uh, I was the guy, you know, that's why I think, uh, a lot of guys can't be in that police officer situation because even if it happened to Angela or, or if what they were doing to a kid, the first thing we wanna do is, uh, let's just put this person out of their, everybody's misery.
Let's just get rid of him. And obviously we can't do that. That's not the way things are handled. That's not the law. So, you know,
Riley: not the last, not, yeah,
Jeremy Kuntz: they don't allow us,
Riley: So Angela, that was the only time in all the years you did police work that you got called names, right?
Jeremy Kuntz: no. There was [00:40:00] many other times when I was with her that that happened. I just understood that it was, it's, it's part of the job so.
Riley: Yeah. Yeah. And I, I think that's, that's what I'm getting at. And I say that's pretty sarcastically, but that is part of the job. Right. And, and I want to, I want to hear your take on that, Angela.
Angela: So, um, you were commenting on just some of the people you had, you know, listened to some of the people they had dealt with. Um, as Jeremy alluded, you know, we deal with the worst of the worst in society, but we also deal with some pretty incredible human beings that are just in really, really unfortunate situations. And, uh, to be able to walk alongside any of them, you know, the ones who were yelling and cussing. I mean, when I was younger, the, the name calling, especially one particular name that, um, they would call me, Uh, was not, uh, I did not like that name. when I was younger, I [00:41:00] reacted to that stuff more. then, you know, as I matured, I'm like, you know, I don't care what they call me. I'm, I'm doing here to do a job. Um, and they don't like somebody holding them accountable for their behavior, and my job. and, and for the most part, yes, they would yell and they would cuss at me, but I still feel like most people, because I treated people with respect, they treated me with respect no matter what they were doing. Um, I mean, I have. had a guy, uh, that I arrested who was trying to break into an ATM asked me to marry him. Uh, I mean, I, you know, I had a guy that I arrested for murder and I spent 12 hours with him driving to crime scenes, finding the murder weapon, the burn site. He, and when I, uh, took him to jail, he asked me if he could send me Christmas cards. I was testifying in court one time and I was sitting second chair to the prosecutor. [00:42:00] So during voir dire where they're selecting the jury, I'm there and they're saying, well, does anybody know prosecutor so-and-so, does anybody know Detective Weeks? And this guy raises his hand. How do you know detective weeks?
She arrested me for domestic violence. And I'm like, don't lie on the jury. And he came up later and he said, I really wish you guys had picked me. I know how you treated me. I know how respectful you and I know what I did wrong, and you, you held me accountable, but you treated me with respect. He said, I know you did this in this case.
And I'm like, okay. The.
Riley: So that's an interesting thing, right? Because you had talked about before when I asked you, you know, what are ways to deescalate? And you were talking about the, the, uh, verbal being the biggest part of it, and there's some tact in there, but there's some skill to that, right? To, to having these conversations in a way that gives that person enough dignity to where you're not just demeaning them. And I imagine that goes a long way in that deescalation.
[00:43:00]
Angela: Absolutely it does. You know, and there were times where I wanted somebody to learn a lesson. I want, didn't want them. You know, like when I would dealing in with shoplifters or especially [00:44:00] juveniles, like I wanted them to go, I never wanna experience this again. Right? I wanted to create a little bit of fear with them. Like with shoplifters, I used to do this thing where, especially with kiddos, I would say, um, ask them what their favorite things were in their bedroom and you know, they talk about their video games or what their CD players or whatever. And I said, okay, well we're going back over to your house and I'm taking those things. they're like, you can take those things from me. And I said, why can't I? You think you can walk in here and take things? And you know, and then just, they'd be bawling and then I'm like, okay, I got 'em. They're never gonna do this again. But, you know, you know, when you're dealing with other, that was my kind of wanting to teach them a lesson so they didn't get back in trouble versus the ones that were aggressive or, you know, that had weapons or, you know, that you just had to do with, deal with it differently.
Riley: Yeah, I imagine circumstances definitely require different tact, right?
Angela: Yep.
Riley: I should say. Um, talk about this, uh, you, [00:45:00] go from the police career and you move into the domestic violence, I, I think is probably the category you'd put it in, right? Um, what took you that direction? I.
Angela: So it actually, um, so I worked a lot of, when I was on patrol, because I was the only female, they inherently thought I understood domestic violence and sexual assault cases and I didn't. But they used to lot want to send me to all of them. and I didn't understand what was going on in a lot of those situations.
I didn't understand the dynamics of power and control in those situations. But the more I got involved in them, the more I saw societal impact those crimes truly had on our entire community. That it wasn't just another call, it wasn't just another vandalism. And my first homicide case [00:46:00] was a four month old little girl whose dad had held her face down in a stack of pillows until she quit breathing or until she quit crying, is what he told me. And he had a history of abusing his own wife and nobody had ever reported that to the police. And within five months I was working a case of another little girl who her babysitter shook her violently, um, on two separate occasions and gave her a subdural and a acute. Uh, or acute and chronic subdural hematoma, it left her blind and paralyzed.
She's actually still alive. I still get video clips from her mom and she with when she's doing aquatic therapy and things like that. And within two weeks after that, I was working in another case and that woman also had a history of domestic violence lighting her own kids' clothes on fire. And then two weeks later, I was working a case with another 3-year-old little girl, actually just two blocks from the Family Justice Center where we're currently located. And she died from blunt force [00:47:00] trauma. That's the medical call I was telling you about. The medic me fire got called out first and they realized something was wrong. And this man was violating a no contact order. He had 68 contacts with the AMPA Police Department. The majority of them were civil protection order violations, domestic violence, and he murdered her. So these little girls within a five month period in my career, uh, made me realize we needed to do something different. I needed to educate myself. I needed to educate my department, my community. I needed to change the outcome because these should not, this should not be the story for anybody, and I didn't want any of their lives to be in vain.
Riley: Yeah. it's funny 'cause you just share a couple of those things right there, and Jeremy had mentioned earlier that there was a point when you were kinda like, I don't, I don't want to hear details on this stuff. Right.
Jeremy Kuntz: Yep.
Riley: Um, a couple of my jujitsu friends down there that they fight fires [00:48:00] and in a while they'll gimme a little too much detail and I'm like, wow, man, I didn't realize what you guys dealt with. One of 'em here recently was a human trafficking situation where the, the police were closing in on these guys and they knew it. So they took these three teenage girls, 11 to 11 to 13 year olds. So tween age girls. Right. chained them up in the basement of a house, put propane tanks all around them and lit the house on fire. And the fire, you know, Sam, this friend of mine, had to go, he was on two of those calls, two consecutive days where these guys did that twice. And the first one, two of the girls lived, but were burned pretty badly. And the, the second one, neither of 'em, there was two girls. And, but these guys, you know, just some of the wild that you would, that, that even exists out there, but to have to see it and smell it and, you know, just [00:49:00] that grieving that, that they go through, it blows my mind.
You know, they'll come into the juujitsu mats and they're on, they're in tears, you know, and just going, this is what I dealt with this last week. Right. So, Jeremy, I want to hear from you when, when trauma situations came up, what did that mean for the family? I mean, 'cause that, that's gotta affect Angela on a psychological level, you know, there's gotta be some time there of, of just dealing with that.
What did that look like to the rest of the family?
Jeremy Kuntz: I, Angela. Hi. It pretty well. Um, I know it wasn't so much, I think, I think it was hiding it from the family, uh, but she was definitely talking with people at the police department. Um, obviously they have a psychologist and, and stuff like that at the police department, and I know she avoided that kind of stuff for a while.
[00:50:00] Um, but eventually, you know, she would go, um, talk to individuals. 'cause I mean, I didn't mean to push her away by, don't talk to me about, you know, the trauma, but it was also, Hey, I don't want, I don't, I don't want the trauma to, you know, embed on me also. Um, so we gotta figure out how we can take care of this.
And she did. I mean, o obviously, you know, police officers. I've, I've been around a lot. We've had a lot of friends, um, through the Napa Police Department, um, you know, swimming barbecues, so on and so forth. Um, police officers just have a different sense of humor about some things, and sometimes they speak about things that you're like.
What, you know, it's like they kind of talk about it nonchalantly or they make a joke about something and it's just how they deal with it, you know? Um, so the police community is, is pretty tight niche and, you know, a lot of [00:51:00] friends and, and all that stuff. So, um, she had a lot of support that way. She had the support from our family as far as she knows.
She was loved. She had someplace safe to come home to. Um, things were gonna get taken care of, you know, houses cleaned, meals were cooked, kids got to daycare, kids got to school. She knew all that stuff was being taken care of, so she didn't have to worry about that stuff, even though I'm working a full-time job too.
Um, she knew when she got called out for, you know, it wasn't just like a night that she'd be called out. A lot of the times, once she got into a heavy case, especially if it was a homicide or a really bad domestic violence or a rape, um, you know, that that call could go on for days. And sometimes she would work 16, 18, 20 hour days, come home, catch a nap, boom, she's gone again.
So there's a lot of stuff that, um, that had to be taken care of at home. Um, and we were happy to do it. It [00:52:00] it, you know, when the kids were little, you, they, they learned how to pick up. They learned how to get things. Uh, we kept the house ready for when mom got home. Um. But as far as, um, I, I could only maybe think of a couple times that maybe, um, that I can think of that, that kind of affected her.
Uh, I remember the first, um, autopsy she went to with a, uh, a little kid that was about the same age that McKayley was, and I know that affected her because of the age of the child. Um, and we had a kid that same age. So that one affected her a little bit, um, or quite a bit. Um, and she was able to get some help through that.
And then, um, I know the, the time the guy pulled the knife and she had every right to have ended that person's life, um, chose not to, and thank God he didn't do anything. Um, and didn't take anything further. But that was a very scary [00:53:00] moment. And, um, and we discussed quite a bit about that one. But overall, the, the police community and, and what they have at the n Police Department, um, as far as mentally taking care of their officers, they do a pretty good job of it.
Riley: Yeah. I'm asking these questions you guys, 'cause I'm trying to kind of build this picture, right? 'cause I don't think people understand, like I said, they see a YouTube video where a cop screws up, but they don't see what 20, did you say 27 years in the, in the police force? Is that what you said? You know, that accumulate accumulation of events and things and you know, gosh, man, give some grace.
A cop's gonna have a bad day every once in a while. Right? And
Jeremy Kuntz: Yeah.
Riley: um, one of the things you mentioned, Jeremy, was the dark humor. Right?
Jeremy Kuntz: Yeah.
Riley: And you're, you're around people, then any situation that, that has to do with trauma, the dark humor's there for sure. I've talked with soldiers, I've [00:54:00] talked with, again, the EMS people, police officers, um, yeah.
Even people just in a stressful job. The, the, construction workers, right. Dark humor's there. And it's, but it is a coping me mechanism. And, and can you talk about how that, how that helps you guys cope?
Angela: So, you know, I think. think it can actually kind of go both ways. Um, I think the humor, um, you know, going out and seeing some of the suicide scenes or accident scenes that we've seen and then talking about, you know, going out and grabbing spaghetti. I mean, those kind, because we are trying to like separate, you know, we use it kind of to separate and, um, move on from things.
Um, but I think sometimes when people are doing it too much, I, the very first time that the department forced me into counseling, the lady told me I had a great sense of humor and that my sense of humor was a great coping skill. And I'm like, yep, we signed this paper. You, I mean she, I'm like, you have no clue what I'm [00:55:00] doing.
You literally have no idea. And that was, they made me go after those three cases that I had just told you about. 'cause they were in a such short period of time. Um, and I had another time where I was forced into counseling because of the three other really bad cases that happened within a one week period. And, um, the department forced me into counseling that time. And she was a crime scene fanatic. Like, she was like, and what did you see? And what was happening? And I'm like, Uhhuh, will you sign this paper? Um, it, you know, back when I first started, the reliance on mental health and the understanding of ICAR trauma was not strong. And I did not want to appear. I mean, I, the guys already when I started, some of 'em didn't wanna come to calls with me. They were afraid I was gonna run and cry. I don't know what they thought I was gonna do. Um, one of them wouldn't let me search buildings with him because he, he would make me stand on the outside of the building and wouldn't let me come in because I was gonna get hurt or something. Uh, so I didn't want them to see [00:56:00] me as weak. I didn't want them to see me as not being able to handle my job. But when I finally did find a, so we don't have a, a psychologist in the police department, but we have, um, a list of resources available to us. And when I found somebody who understood first responders, I've seen her off and on for over 20 years.
She was tremendous, uh, in helping me with being able to with the, because I chose, this was a choice because it's what God asked me to do with my life. I chose to work persons crimes the majority of my career. So child abuse, child death investigations, sexual assault, domestic, you know, human trafficking, homicides, gang related cases. Um, that was what I did the majority of my career. So I literally saw the worst of the worst, the worst evil in the world. Um, I tell people that the general public could not handle knowing what really happens in their community
Riley: That. Okay. That is a good point, right? Because you had [00:57:00] mentioned earlier in the episode you're with people on their worst day, right? And that's, that's majority of what or first responders deal with. It's, it's people's worst day. You know, I, as a civilian, I, I, I've been in a couple, you know, fender benders, right?
And they suck. about That's fun. And no one died in those accidents. There was no fatalities. Um, I saw one, one time out on the freeway where a car was flipping through the air, and I was wondering how many bodies I was gonna find when I went to try to help guy was mostly okay, had a bad concussion and a cut, and they tore his ear most of the way off, but, and a broken arm, you know, but it wasn't sticking outta the skin.
So there wasn't really a lot of visible trauma there. But that was this one event in my almost 50 years of life, you know, that, but you guys are dealing with that on a regular basis. And I, I can't stress enough to people when you're, when get pulled over in traffic and you've got this officer [00:58:00] that's, you know, being a little grumpy with you, you don't know what he just came from.
Right?
Angela: Yep. I actually had, um, one of my coworkers who actually, um, you would know who she is if I mentioned her by name because she went to the church with us. Uh, she came up to me one day and prior to the language she said, Angela, why aren't all cops assholes? And I'm like, did you just call me an asshole? I said. Tell, tell me, why are I saying that? She said, I just got stopped on this traffic stop, and he came up to the window and he's like, license restoration and insurance. And then he just went back to his car and I'm like, okay. And,
Riley: Because you think that was the only thing he's done this whole month,
Angela: and what I said to her is I said, do you know if he pulled a dead baby out of the canal, but before you decided to speed, do you know if he just had somebody threaten to take his life or watch somebody jump off of a, you know, commit suicide in front of him? You have no, like, public has no idea what we see. not like, [00:59:00] it's not like tv. Right? They don't understand that. But we are expected to be professional, to be friendly. Unless you want us to be mean to somebody, then you want us to be jerks to them. You know, why are they talking nice to that guy that, you know, stole from me? Um, you know, they want us to be ministers, they want us to be social workers. Um, they want us to be, you know, uh, W-W-D-E-E REST lawyers, you know, take, they want us to be all these things, but have no motion regarding any of it.
Riley: Yeah, absolutely. Amazing to me that that big picture thing, right? Because I could imagine after, after people lie to you consistently years and years and years, and then all of a sudden you find yourself in this place where you doubt when someone's actually telling you the truth. That that seems warranted to me. And that's part of the reason clear back when I was saying I didn't apply for the aid accounting was because I knew [01:00:00] I could not deal with that well, were lying to me on a consistent basis. I wouldn't be able to just be polite anyways. Right.
Angela: One of my phrases I would use all the time. So I loved, uh, doing suspect interrogations. Um, some people in the department used to call me the closer 'cause I could get people to talk to me about everything. It didn't matter if they killed a kid, if they, um, were a serial rapist, if they were a murderer. I mean, people talk to me about all sorts of things. and I used to say, you know, 'cause everybody lies to me, right? And so I would say, when I'd come back into my interrogation, I said, here's the deal. I know you lied to me about all of this, right? And I am telling you now that I know you were lying to me, so now I don't expect you're gonna keep lying to me. Let's move forward with where we're gonna go from here. You know, I use that line all the time and Jeremy will tell you how much I actually hate being lied to. It's like the one of the big, but I got lied to all the time in my job. But I also. Was really good at, um, people to talk about that and to get through that.
And [01:01:00] I held a lot of people accountable, um, for the choices they made to do the damage they did in our community.
Riley: So you,
Jeremy Kuntz: That does
Riley: them out, but you found a way to phrase that that also left some dignity in there. Right. I expect from now on you're gonna do the honorable thing and tell me the truth.
Angela: Yeah. Yep. Let them think that they've got a little win in there. You right.
Riley: Yeah, yeah, for sure. Jeremy, did she use some of these psychological tactics on you at home?
Jeremy Kuntz: just gonna tell you that, that it would come over. I actually remember telling Angela multiple times when we were in discussions or an argument or whatever, is I am not a suspect. Do not interrogate me. Uh, because it did happen and I could see it the minute it clicked. When we went from conversation to her interrogating me, I was like, no, we're not gonna do [01:02:00] this.
I'm not a suspect. I'm not a criminal. Don't do this. So, yeah, it, it definitely carried over, but it, you could see the switch on her when she did it, so I could catch her pretty quick.
Riley: Jeremy, did you water all the plants?
Jeremy Kuntz: Which,
Riley: I know you're lying to me about this one 'cause it shriveled
Angela: That's right.
Riley: expecting from here out you're gonna tell me the truth.
Angela: He used to always tell me also, um, Angela, not everybody is a child molester,
Jeremy Kuntz: yeah.
Angela: Angela, not everybody uses meth. And I'm like, you don't know that, you know, we, we look at the world differently. Uh, and I still do. I I still, you'll notice, um, like when I'm talking to somebody and I, and I'll still do it, like if Jeremy and I are talking and it's, you know, there's a disagreement or something, I start blaming myself.
My posture changes, my hands come up. Like all of these, like reflexes that I've had in defensive situations, I still do it. I've done it at the [01:03:00] church, uh, because I approached people to church because of things I was watching going on at this church and our previous church. Um, because some of those things, you just can't turn it off.
Riley: Yeah. Yeah. Do you so about this. I, I generally will ask this question to first responders, but especially law enforcement. What do you do to keep yourself from becoming callous that way and not looking at everyone as a child molester?
Angela: Yeah. I will tell you, I, you know, kind of back to what Jeremy was talking about, I was incredibly blessed in my home life to not to have stuff that was outside of this career, right? Jeremy wasn't in law enforcement. None of our families in law enforcement, so often law enforcement think that they have to marry each other, that they can't hang out with anybody that you know, and then they see the world. Everything in the world is a against them. So I think that, um, God truly blessed [01:04:00] me with my marriage and with our kids and with our family support that we have that kept some of that in balance. I mean, yes, did I, do I still think things and do I jump to conclusions? But I've got a lot of practice in those conclusions I jumped to. But I still, um, I, I left this career not feeling like I'm a callous individual. I'm actually still a very high hope individual, and I still believe that there's a lot of good in the world, and I've seen a lot of good in the world, even though I've also seen more evil than any most humans will ever see in a lifetime.
Riley: Did you have to be strategic about that and, and keeping that callousness from building up?
Angela: And there, there were things I had to be strategic about. Like I, I referred to it as I had a light switch. Um, if I'm at work, um, and I'm doing my work, my light switch is on. But when I was asked to do things that were not work, uh, I remember my first homicide case, [01:05:00] the little girl's dad was a suspect and he wasn't supposed to come to the funeral, they made my partner and I attend her funeral and do surveillance to make sure he's not there. that, that my light switch went off. I'm standing out there with my gun on listening to her grandpa talk and I'm just bawling. Right. Um, I also, one of my buddies was shot in the line of duty five times and I was the officer assigned to him at the hospital I was in the, um, or with him, I was in CAT scan with him. Um, I watched him have open heart surgery, which is not part of my job, and my light switch went off and that kinda stuff be, they asked me to pray over him before he went up to surgery. I could be very professional and very um. Not, not that I wasn't emotional, but like, like if I knew I was doing my work, I had another case with, it was actually our neighbor's little boy who had passed [01:06:00] away in a car ride into town.
And my detective that I was training, um, we get called out to it, but I personally know these people, but I, I still have my light switch on and we get in there and I'm showing him and my patrol officer what we need to do with this baby. And they're doing, oh my gosh, he's the same old age as my son. And I'm like, we don't do that here.
That's not what this is about. We're, we're, we're doing an investigation. This is evidence. So there were times that people are like, wow, she's really cold and, but can do my job really, really well. Um, but to find a place where you can cry in the shower or, you know, hug somebody later on, um, to, to process that.
Because like I took, when I teach my vicarious trauma classes, I said, there are just times we have to pull up our big boy pants and do the job right. Because the public needs us to do that, but we still have to take care of ourselves and figure out how to do that.
Riley: Yeah, that's, that seems like such a challenge, but I don't [01:07:00] know. I think we've all experienced those situations that in the moment we step up to the challenge, but later you look at it and it's like, man, there's tears. Right?
Angela: Yeah.
Riley: talked to our guys, Jeremy, you know this 'cause you've been there. The conversations in a small group, when I, I talk about our bankruptcy back in, in 2009, right? And. When I went through it, it was hard, but it, we went through it, you know, it was this thing. But if I get talking about it still today, oh, I still, it tears me up.
Angela: Yeah. and I'll do that with cases from 10 or 20 years ago that if you had have met me when I was working that case, you would've had no idea. Um, but, um, I'll give you an example. I don't know if I could do it without crying. Um, I retired, um, right in the middle of COVID, right? But they still let us have a thing at the Civic Center, which was kind of crazy.
But, I knew a lot of people, so they let the retirement be at the Civic Center and at the end of it, um, you know, there are people who are just lined up, coming up to hug [01:08:00] me and just thank me. And I turned, and that little girl I was telling you about that was murdered by the man right down the road from us. Her dad was standing there and he just started bawling. And that case, was it back in 2001? 2000, yeah, 2001. And he started bawling and I looked and I lost it, right? Uh, it took me right back to, I mean, I, I didn't bawl when I worked that case. I didn't bawl when I went to her autopsy. I didn't baw when I talked to the family and you know, about what had happened.
And when I, that I actually, that case went to trial. I had to identify her Bo, you know, her from a picture, didn't cry at any of that. But, you know, there are times that it's safer to let those emotions out.
Riley: Yeah, yeah, for sure. sure. Okay. I want to move on to your stage of life now. Right. Um, the Family Ju Justice Center in Nampa. That was, if I, [01:09:00] correct me if I'm wrong, but that was partly your brainchild, wasn't it?
Angela: It was my brainchild is my baby. I actually, um, was teaching for the, well, it was actually right after those three cases I just told you about. I was, uh, the lead instructor for the Idaho State Police Academy on domestic violence, and they offered to send me to a conference in San Diego, California. And I'm like, I'm never to San Diego.
Sure. Send me. I didn't know what I was going to. and at the time it was called the Domestic Violence Sexual Assault, and I don't remember something conference. And they had in, uh, October of that year. So the training was in April, in October, or in April that year when I went down there, they had just opened the first Family Justice center in the country.
Casey Gwyn and Grac had opened that. And part of the CON conference was we got to tour that I went back to my hotel room, went to sleep, and God woke me up in a hotel room and. [01:10:00] Did not let me go back to sleep until I had eight pages of a strategic plan on how we were gonna do this in Ampa, Idaho. Uh, I seriously, he did not.
I was rioting. And, and Jeremy can also tell you that I also, God talks to me in my sleep because some people say it's the only time I slowed down enough for to hear him.
Jeremy Kuntz: Yeah.
Angela: But, um,
Riley: Jeremy talks about that. Yeah. Yeah.
Angela: I wake up a lot and, and dictated my phone or have to write notes down, but I was awake for probably three hours just writing everything down.
And then I went back to sleep and slept like a baby. And I came back and I started meeting with people and, um, to see if they thought I was crazy. And I wrote a community dev develop. Well actually I brought together a community team, is what I did. I brought, I invited the mayor and city council members and prosecutors and cops and social workers, you know, all the people I'd already been working with. I did a, in her shoes simulation with them, which is a simulation that lets people kind of understand [01:11:00] all of the places that we send survivors to, to get help all outside of, you know, the police department outside of our, outside of Nampa, even sometimes outside of our state. It's crazy. they were frustrated and we were doing that within the building, right?
It wasn't even nearly what we asked survivors to do. And I had people telling me that night, um, if you build, basically fill their dreams, if you build this, we will put people in your, in your facility. um, one of the city councilmen came up to me, or one of the ladies working for the city came up and told me about a community development block grant. I did not know how to write grants, but this is what I was supposed to be doing. So I wrote a community development block grant, and I went before city council I told them what I wanted to do. And they gave me $375,000. I didn't even have a building. they said, we have a building downtown Nampa, the city owns it.
Go look at it. If it works for you, you can have it for free here you can have this part of the money to [01:12:00] remodel it. And I went down there and there was a church in there, a couple senators had their offices in there. Um, just different stuff. And everybody was so supportive of what I was talking about. Um, everybody moved out and then right around that time, president Bush aside $20 million to fund 15 pilot projects. Casey Gwen, who had started the San Diego model, went and spoke to President Bush and got his investment in that. And there were like 400 communities that applied for this money. And well, that said they were gonna apply and I think there were about 130 of us who actually applied. And Department of Justice actually came out to na. They went to all these communities to see if we really had things in place that we said we had in place. And I knew we had 'em in place. I knew who my partners were, we just weren't working together in the same building. they, uh, came out and I was grocery shopping one day and I got a call from the chief who said. [01:13:00] You got almost a million dollars. You're, we got picked as one of the pilot projects, and so we worked for two years before we opened our doors in 2005 and in November this last year, we celebrated 20 years of being open outside San Diego. We're the longest running family justice in, in the country, but they exist in 150 locations in our country now and 150 internationally. And we still lead the movement. I actually was just on another call nationally, um, last week talking about child protection issues and domestic violence issues as a nationally recognized subject matter expert because of what we do in Nampa, Idaho.
Riley: So in summary, what exactly does Family Justice Center do?
Angela: So the Family Justice Center provides wraparound co-located services to domestic violence, child abuse, sexual assault, elder abuse, human trafficking, and stalking victims. So instead of having to go to the police department, having to go to the court to get a protection order, having to go to the, uh, hospital [01:14:00] to get a medical exam on a sexual assault or a child abuse case, instead of having to go see a legal aid attorney. We house all of those partners in one location, in a trauma-informed, victim-centered environment. And even in that, you don't go from office to office. There are victim rooms upfront, or we call them clients 'cause we believe that's a more empowering term. And they get to choose who they see in that facility.
And we go to them in that building. We, we can offer everything from free. E everything we do is free. But we can offer, um, we can offer spiritual support. We have chaplains who work with us. We can offer legal aid support, we can offer medical law enforcement case management if they need help with housing, gas vouchers, clothing. Um, the list goes on and on and on. And we are just continuing to evolve in what we can continue to sur provide for our clients.
Riley: That's pretty awesome. This has, uh, you [01:15:00] said your brainchild, right? And you taken this thing. Now you're retired from the police force and technically you're still retired. But I hear rumor, Jeremy, you need to speak to this, that retirement is in quotes, right?
Jeremy Kuntz: Yeah.
Riley: Talk about what, what that looks like at home now, now that Angela's retired.
Angela: Yeah. Oh yeah, Jeremy.
Jeremy Kuntz: Yeah. Angela's not really retired. She probably works more than she did when she was working. She's just, I think what it is, is she's retired from the police department and now she's doing what she really loves to do. Um, so that's why she doesn't consider it work because she's doing what she loves to do.
So she's, uh, she's down at the, the, at the family just center. She. Is down there volunteering three, four days a week sometimes. Um, mostly at least three days a week. Um, she sits on the board, [01:16:00] um, for the, um, foundation. She's a foundation president. Um, and then on top of that, because she's, uh, the family just center is, is popular and there's lots of people and places that want that.
Um, she travels and she helps other communities that wants to, that wanna set up other family just centers in their, um, area. I know, um, recently I actually went up to a gala event to fundraiser up in Salmon. Um, yeah, Sam? Yeah, salmon's good. Uh, trying to open one up. Um, I know Bozeman, Montana, um, you know, so there's some that are, that are going in close.
Um, and then she also does a lot of traveling 'cause she trains, uh, for the national pla uh, national Chief of Police Association. Um, I know she does. Uh, they've got some grants that were written for training for the state of Idaho. So she travels around all of the police departments here in the state of Idaho and helps, um, train in vicarious trauma [01:17:00] and domestic violence best practices and in, in investigations for child abuse and, and rapes and all that other stuff that they do.
They just, they do a, she travels with another gal, um, here, Alicia Bowles, who's, she's an amazing human too.
Riley: We switch gears a little bit. Okay. You guys had, don't know which year it was, and you can speak to this, but at some point in this journey you had the big C, the cancer hit your world. When was that, Angela?
Angela: it was 2015. I was actually down at the rec center preparing for a physical test for the police department. Um, we, um, had physicals that we, you know, are, are running pushups and all that stuff that we had to do periodically. And I was doing, um, pushups and I could, like, I did three pushups and I had so much PI thought I [01:18:00] had done something to my shoulder. I had so much pain in my shoulder, I didn't know what was going on. So I'm like, oh, I tore something. I came home that night and realized it was something different. My grandmother had had a complete mastectomy. My aunt had a complete mastectomy. I had had benign tumors removed starting at 18. So I'd always been aware of screening. And I did a screening that night and I, um, and Jeremy had been with me when I had one of the tumors removed. Um, so it, we'd been kind of used to, you know, that there could be something, but this one was completely different. Um, and I recognized it that night and I told him that. And I called the doctor the next day and they're like, you need to come in.
You need to come in now. And, um, went in and they did the mammogram, they did the ultrasound. They were trying to get me scheduled for a surgery really fast. I mean, you know, when they're doing that is, uh, and ironically, the person who did the, the [01:19:00] forensic pathologist who did. The looking at my, uh, the tumor that got removed or the, the sample had worked with for years, um, he on autopsies, I'd known Dr.
Kranz forever, and I left the parking lot and I said, Joe, here's the deal. I'm having surgery this day. Please don't make me wait till the weekend. And he said, and your husband come into my office tomorrow morning. he pulled it up on the screen, um, told us what it was that I had, stage two breast cancer, uh, that, um, and he was sitting on the breast cancer team for Boise.
And I got one of the best surgeons, uh, Dr. Prayer over there. And we started through a crazy two and a half. Well, you know, if you look at all the things, it's even been longer than that, but two years of a really, really crazy journey.
Riley: There's this thing that happens, right? Because cancer doesn't just affect [01:20:00] you, right? It affects your friends and your family and sort of thing. And I remember, I remember a friend of mine, his wife had breast cancer and you know, she survived that. But the, the long-term effects on her were a big deal. But the long-term effects on him went overlooked a lot.
And I'd love to hear from you, Jeremy, on what, what you as the spouse
experienced
Jeremy Kuntz: Oh, you're trying to make me cry. Um,
Riley: I know I almost cry in saying it, just even asking the question 'cause I.
Jeremy Kuntz: it's, um, I mean, I look back, I mean, hindsight's 2020, right? Um, I look back on it. Um, I so should have probably went and talked to a counselor. Um, there was a lot of stuff, uh, that, uh,[01:21:00]
yeah, a lot of stuff we dealt with as a family. Um, everything from, I mean, don't get me wrong, um, when Angela made that phone call in the parking lot, um, a piece came about her. Um, that could only have been God. It was, um, I.
Just, it went from a, when, when I got the phone call, when I heard about it, um, when she told me, Hey, don't come home. I need you to come straight to the hospital. I'm driving home from work and I don't know what's going on. And I'm starting to freak out. And we get there and we, we go through the whole stuff in the doctor's office, um, you know, and, and scheduling stuff and, and the scans and when the surgery's gonna be.
And we go out to the parking lot and, and we're both losing it. We don't, you know, 'cause we're both confused in what's going on. [01:22:00] And then, um, and then we get a hold of, um, the doctor that, that she works with, that, um, she had worked several, um, stuff, cases with, and he says they'll get us in the next day. And a piece came about her, like I said, that you can only account to God.
Um, it was, it was, you know, God's got this. We're, we're gonna be fine. We just need to, we just have to go through all these steps and get it done. Um, but those steps were, like she said, for two years. Um, I, I tried to forget how many surgeries she had, but it was, I think we were up around 18, 16, something like that.
Surgeries within a two year period. Um, and Angela, uh, doesn't like to do things once. She always wants to do things twice. So. No matter what surgery she had, it was, oh, an infection or this happened or that happened. And it was [01:23:00] always, we did everything twice. Um, so that's why we ended up with so many surgeries in a, in a two, two and a half year period.
Um, luckily the place I work were awesome. I went to, um, every chemo appointment. Um, I was over in when she had reconstructive surgery over in Utah, um, up at the Huntsman. Um, I basically got to work remotely. Um, I got to go, I stayed up there. Angela was in intensive care for I think a week, if I remember right.
Um, and I stayed at the, a little place down in Utah, um, down in Salt Lake. It, it was kind of accounted for as the hospital, so they allowed me to stay. It was kind of like a hotel room. Um, so it, it just, a lot of stuff that happened that, um, everything from, you know, having to sit down and tell the kids what were going on[01:24:00]
to telling family members, uh, and then just the battle in your head with.
In your head with what if she dies?
Angela: Except I told everybody I wasn't. I.
Jeremy Kuntz: Yeah, she could do that. But I mean, there were, there were times that, um, that I would, you know, 'cause I'm, I wanna be the strong husband, be there for, you know, we're gonna do this together, all that stuff. Um, but there were, there were times I would go upstairs and just cry it out for, you know, 45 minutes [01:25:00] and, you know, because I didn't know what was happening.
I didn't know what was gonna go on. I mean, the, the doctors were great when filling us in, but when you go to the oncologist and, um, and I, I learned later on why they do this is because they lose so many cancer break patients. But she was very, um, standoffish. Um, the questions were very straightforward, answered.
There was no, you know, normally you go to a doctor and say, Hey, how's your day? Hey, my day's going great. You know, and you talk about things. This gal was very, very standoffish and which freaked me out because it's like, well, she's putting on her front and she's gotta be putting on her front for a reason.
And this is obviously worse than maybe we thought it was. And, and it was bad. I mean, it. If, if Angela wouldn't have gone through the stuff that she did, uh, with chemo, um, and the radiation and the surgeries and all that stuff, she probably would not be here today. I, I [01:26:00] truly believe that. So, but it's, it's tough, especially when it comes to chemo.
'cause um, Angela was the toughest person I've ever met. Um, she, we'd have chemo on Fridays and she would go back to work on Monday, and she worked Monday through Friday and then, or Monday through Thursday. And then I would take her back in for chemo on Friday again. And it sucked because by Friday she was feeling pretty good again.
And then I knew on that drive over to chemo that when I, you know, we're having a conversation, we're talking about things and, hey, what's going on this week? And all that kind of stuff. But then I knew the minute we got out of there, she was down and out. I mean, she was, she was feeling horrible. She was throwing up, she's, you know, all this stuff.
And so it sucks to, to go in there and see that there, you know, she had a port put in and that the minute they plug her in, that within the next 20 minutes she's gonna feel [01:27:00] that crap. And she's gonna feel that crap the rest of the weekend and it's gonna be. You know, and it, and it's, and it's horrible when your spouse is not feeling well and it's even worse when you know it's cancer.
That's not making them feel well. 'cause there's nothing you can do. Um, all you can do is try to make them feel comfortable and make sure they have everything they need and that they got plenty of water. And, but somehow you still have to figure out how to keep moving forward. Because I have, we have two kids, you know, I, we got one that's in barely in high school and one that's in junior high.
And we're, we're still working, you know, high school issues and junior high issues and school and homework and somebody's gotta make dinner and, you know, the house has gotta stay straightened up and all the little things, the dogs still have to be fed, the cat still has to be fed. You know, the dogs still have to go for walks.
You still have to do all life and still try to make it through. Um, with everything else. It's ruining through your head. So it's a lot.[01:28:00]
Riley: Tell me this, man. 'cause I, I told you I have a good friend that his wife went through breast cancer
Jeremy Kuntz: Mm-hmm.
Riley: And me as the friend, wanted to be helpful in some ways, right? And so I'd call him periodic like, Hey man, can I come mow your long, can I come help her? And he'd always say, no, man. We got it. We got it, we got it. And it, it really made me wonder from your perspective, what, what did you really need from your friends?
Jeremy Kuntz: I told Angela's story a lot because everybody, when they see you, how's Angela? Uh, what's going on? What's she doing? Um, how, where are you at? You know, with everything. Um, I told her story and it, and, and you almost get exhausted from telling the story. Um, I would've loved to somebody say, Hey [01:29:00] man, let's go grab coffee.
I'm gonna talk. And for, have a buddy of mine to say, Hey dude, how are you doing? Which everybody wants to know how Angela's doing, which I, I totally understand, but I can't think of very many times that I ever had somebody say, Hey, how are you doing?
That would've been cool.
Probably would've lost it. But
Riley: Yeah, I felt like my buddy had hmm,
Jeremy Kuntz: I think that the other thing,
Riley: right.
Jeremy Kuntz: other thing that I think more than anything, and I think Angela was this way, uh, too, is um, you don't want to be. Seen as somebody [01:30:00] that's sick, somebody that's like our family's broken or something.
Angela: I actually struggled with that a lot. I didn't want, um, I remember when I went to the police department to tell the patrol teams 'cause it, I mean, that's a different type of family, but it's a, it's a family. And I told them that I had been diagnosed with stage two breast cancer. And I said, but I'm not dying.
I'm fine. I don't want you to treat me any differently. And I really didn't want people to treat me differently until my hair fell out, you know, only people who knew me knew. But then when my hair came out and everybody looks at you like, with this, um, I'm so sorry. And I'm like, don't, don't, I don't, I don't want you to pity.
I, you know, I'm still moving. I'm still going forward. I kept telling people, don't treat me like I'm dying because I'm living. And, and it's hard to, um, [01:31:00] and, and, and, and Jeremy references. I mean, I had a moment with God where I, um, surrender has always been hard for me. I, I have a career that I've controlled things all my life, right?
I, I had to control things when I was growing up because of circumstances. And to be able to just say to God. I, I cannot do this. This is none of this is of me. I'll do whoever you put in my path. I'll go see those doctors. But I am totally turning all of this over to you. I will keep doing what you've asked me to do with my life, which is why I kept working. Uh, people are like, why are, why are you here? And I said, because I'm taking care of what he asked me to do, and he's taking care of the rest. And I remember after that happened, I actually caught a cold. And I remember like laughing with God and said, are you really me? Trying to make sure I'm trusting you with everything? I, I had that conversation with him and I had people coming up and saying, talking about the light they saw on my li my eyes and, you know, just how, how hopeful I was [01:32:00] and how I was blessing them and, what I was, you know, what I said is, I don't know why he's using me as a vessel, um, but if he's using me ve as a vessel to impact your life, I'm glad that he is.
But that is truly not me. You're seeing it's not my strength. It's not my, because I'm a control freak. I'm a worrywart. Um, what you're seeing is if you're gonna praise something, praise God for that because that's exactly what you're seeing as, as I walk through this.
Riley: Yeah, man. Both of you have kind of alluded to people treating you was what you were craving during that time, huh?
[01:33:00]
Angela: Yep. Yeah. It was, you know, and, and it drew. Um, I don't know if Jeremy's told you it, it also drew community attention. Um, the police department. Um, my chief was getting ready to retire. Craig Kingsbury and I went down to have a, a lunch with him and he always changed his head, so we didn't phase me. But, um, you know, when I, I got hospitalized with a really bad infection and while I was there, my hair started coming out in big clumps and came home.
And that, that was hard because I knew I had to, now people are gonna know. [01:34:00] I went and shaved my head and then Jeremy came out and he shaved his head. And then we go down for this luncheon and we're leaving and I'm talking to Craig and his wife as we're walking out, and I, I don't even realize what's happening and I look out the door and it's, there's just lines of people. And I look up and I realize who these people are that are standing outside in hats. Um, it's police department and it's women, five women from the police department, and it's Jeremy and it's firefighters, and it's one of the guys' kids, and they all take off their hat. It's the SWAT team. They all take off their hats.
And every one of 'em had shaked their heads. never at a loss for words and I couldn't speak. And then, then that made the news. And then the news wanted to do stories, um, because they, you know, our community. Knew who I was. A lot of people in our community. And then they wanted to do, do a follow up story.
When, you know, when I, when I, you know, my year out and people wanted me to come and do the Stampede for the [01:35:00] Cure, which I refused to do. I mean, I understood why they wanted me to do it, but I kept saying that's, I don't wanna be known for that. I don't wanna be known as the poor cop who had cancer, remember me for the work I did at the Justice Center. And so, I mean, now I would do something like that because I truly understand. They thought, you know, because I was, a lot of people knew who I was, that if they saw me going through it would give people courage. But I just, I didn't want to be known for that.
Riley: I think that's an important point. 'cause I, you know, sometimes, I dunno, sometimes we get handed a mantle, we're not really ready to be ready to accept. Right. And that, gosh, that's a, that's a, that's a cool take on what you're talking about. 'cause I, I don't know that I would've thought about it from that perspective, but you, you almost have to get to this place where you're humble enough to just accept the love people are throwing at you.
Right.
Angela: We had so much of that, we had so much of that [01:36:00] everywhere from Jeremy's work to people at our church, to the police department. I mean, we were so blessed through all of that with, um, I can't, well I, first of all, I can't imagine going through something like that without having God in your life. Um, and I definitely can't imagine going through something like that without the community that we had around us.
Jeremy Kuntz: Families were awesome. They, they just, they got behind everything. Um, you know, and, and different people and neighbors that would bring food over. And I mean, there were, at some point I was like, Hey guys, I cook. I, I, we really don't need all this food. But, but it was, it was nice that people cared enough to, to want to do that, um, which was awesome.
Um, lots of people, I mean, I had, uh, a buddy and his wife, um, the Kegels that at that time we were actually in the middle of a kitchen remodel, uh, of all things. And, uh, you know, all the baseboards had all had to be [01:37:00] painted and I was trying to get everything back put together, um, yeah. During this whole entire situation.
And of course, Angela couldn't help me much. So, you know, they came over and helped me paint 'em all in the, in the garage. Um, yeah, we just had a really good, um, group of friends and family that, um, supported us all through that. Um, obviously with, you know, the kids still in school and I'm taking Angela to Utah for a week at a time, uh, family members that stepped up to stay with the kids and make sure things were still going in the right direction with them.
So, yeah, it was, it was good. Good support.
Riley: Did you, did you at any point in that, Jeremy have a hard time accepting that help?
Jeremy Kuntz: Oh yeah, yeah. Um. Even somebody asking to mow the lawn, I'm like, no, the lawn's mine. You know, it's, uh, that's, that's what I do. Um, and sometimes I think that's what people have to think about too, is, is you have to do stuff to get your [01:38:00] mind off things. Um, mowing the lawn was something I could still do, and it got me away from everything for a few minutes.
Um,
Riley: Mm-hmm.
Jeremy Kuntz: so, you know, to to to have normal everyday life still happen is probably what carried me through more than anything. It was, Hey, the kids still gotta get to school and they still have to get dressed and I have to get 'em up and get 'em moving. And, um, we still have to pack lunches and we still have to make dinner and I still have to go to work.
And so there's all those things that, uh, I think you can't just stop life. You have to keep moving. And I think that's, that helped a ton.
Riley: That's interesting 'cause that's what my friend told me when I offered to mow his lawn. He said, that's the one where I can just out there and let that motor run,
Jeremy Kuntz: Yep.
Riley: turn my mine off and draw lines across the, the yard. You know, it's, yeah. He, he used that exact same chore as, as his therapy. Right.
Jeremy Kuntz: I love to [01:39:00] go. I mean, you know me, I like to fish. I like to hunt. Um. Fishing is one of those things where you can kick back on a river with a fly rod and everything kind of floats away. Um, having a buddy go, Hey, let's go fishing. You know, that, that would be awesome. You know, would've been really cool. Hey, let's go fishing.
Hey, let's go, let's go hunting. Let's go. Let's go for a hike. Let's go up to the mountains. You know, that, that kind of stuff would've been, I, I would take that over somebody asking to do a chore for me, because chores, like you said, they're every normal day life, and that's kind of what keeps things normal.
Riley: And that is, um, I hope people are listening to that. 'cause I, I think that's, we all wonder, right. You know,
Jeremy Kuntz: Oh, yeah,
Riley: we all wonder like, how can you help people the most and 'cause everyone wanted to help you. Right. Everyone had this thing, but
Jeremy Kuntz: yeah.
Riley: uh. Yeah, you don't often know. And sometimes it's hard. hard to, [01:40:00] it's hard to know what to do that's really actually gonna be helpful and not annoying. Right.
Jeremy Kuntz: Yeah.
Riley: Yeah. Gosh, that's
Angela: I had a period of time at the police department where they actually got to a point where they put a sign up on our door coming back into my division that said, if you're here to check on Angela, talk to Christie first. Because these, these guys, you know, these big, you know, strong guys from the police department were messes.
They'd come back and they, you know, they'd known me for years and they were looking at me like I was dying. They were treating me like I was dying. They were crying and I'm like, I'm fine, I'm fine. And they're coming in for all these updates and I'm like, I'm working. I don't wanna talk. I don't lie switch.
I don't wanna talk about this here. You know, but, you know, they were, you know, everybody was concerned, but it was, you know, the having to talk about it all the time. when we were trying to live, I mean, I love that we had so much support, but [01:41:00] we were trying to live life too.
Riley: now, I remember, um, this other gal with, with breast cancer said that the worst thing for her was to get in these, um, what did she call 'em? Like these, these cancer groups. She said she just go, she went in a couple of those. She said she just stopped going 'cause they were such downers. Everyone was, know,
Angela: Yeah. I didn't go to.
Riley: Yeah, probably for the same reason, huh?
Angela: Well, I just had a com. I just had a com. I literally was trying, I was living like, I was living, not like I was dying. And I think, um, I, I've, I've known some other people and some other friends of ours that, um, that I've heard them say, you know, they don't wanna leave the house. They don't wanna get out of bed.
They don't want, you know, and yeah, those, some things are sometimes hard to do, but when you're just laying there waiting to die, that's not how I wanted to live anything. Um, and so sitting around [01:42:00] and, I'm not saying that those support groups are bad. I mean, there, some people just need those. But that's, I mean, we were doing everything.
We, if the doctors recommended it, um, we talked about it. Um, you know, and we did. I mean, I ha I was the 1% of the 1%, you know, if one percent's gonna go wrong, it was me twice, you know, over and over and over again. But, um, but we still, you know, just wanted to, so we were doing all of that, but we were also just trying to live a, our life.
Riley: man. You guys have, I mean, that's, heavy, right? We're talking about it and we're all, all. Three of us here, trying not to tear up. And um, I'm having a hard time even getting quite, have these questions out 'cause it's, you know, heavy subject and, I've, I've gotten to see you on the backside 'cause we, we've known each other for the last, you know, six or eight years is all.
But, um, so it was after that battle that we got to know you guys and, but I've got to see [01:43:00] what you've done with life since it's pretty impressive. I, um, I wanna switch gears here into just some much lighter questions. Okay. Um, some of these will be fun and silly. Some of 'em be, you know, maybe a little more serious but not, not more serious than we've already been going through.
So are you guys game for that?
Jeremy Kuntz: Yeah.
Riley: Okay. So you guys, this is called the Go Earn Your Salt podcast. And I would like to hear from you just briefly what that phrase go earn your salt means to you. I.
Jeremy Kuntz: Well, knowing what your business is and what salt is, um, but even if I didn't know it, I would say if somebody said, go in your salt, the first thing I think about with salt is salt and light. Um, Jesus talking about salt and light. Um, salt can be really bad and it can be really good. It it. It sustains life and it also [01:44:00] preserves, um, dead things.
So, I mean, there's lots of things that salt can be used for when some, when I, when I first think about go earn your salt is, um, that God has a calling for each and every one of us, and that he calls us to be salt and light. And that, um, you need to go out and do everything you can to do what God has called you to do in your life.
All of us have a calling each and every one of us, and none of them are higher ranked than anything else. Some may say that Angela's calling was much bigger than my calling. My calling was to be a support for my wife in all that she does, and I don't mind being the guy behind the scenes. It really doesn't bother me whatsoever.
Um, I love the fact that, um, I get to help and be part [01:45:00] of the calling that Angela has. Um, and that's actually what we're doing tonight. Um, we're going to do some stuff with Camp Hope Kids, um, and it's awesome that we get to go do those things with them, um, and see the, the, the, the strides that each one of those kids make.
We got another superhero, uh, super, uh, the Hero Walk on Saturday through Nampa. Um. Of course we're gonna be there, we're gonna be walking for that. So yeah, when I say, when I hear, um, going your salt, it's, I hear go do what God has called you to do, to be that salt in light of this world.
Riley: Dang. Top that Angela.
Angela: That's it. You know? And I think, you know, um, uh, you know, I think I very similar, but, you know, I think about, uh, you know, uh, you know, what am I, what am I leaving on the world? You know, the, you know, what am what, how am I seasoning it, if you will? Um, and, and have I [01:46:00] earned that? Well, um, the thing with the light is kind of funny because I remember going to a women's group a, a retreat, um, that Melanie Tucker was leading, first time I'd ever done anything like that.
And they're having us close our eyes and, and asking what, um, she said, just listen to what God calls you. And I'm like. What are you talking about? Anything like that before. And I'm like, what do you mean? What does he call me? And you know, and just, and we were just supposed to share, like the word we heard, and I, there, there, everybody's going around, princess chosen, you know, and, and I'm like, I didn't hear a word.
I just saw a really, really bright light. And, um, and Melanie said, that's what you're called to be, you're called to be the light in people's darkness. And that's what you're seeing. And so when I think of, you know, what am I leaving, you know, am, am I doing enough? You know, am am I leaving something that's gonna be meaningful to others?
Um, you know, when I, when I'm, when I'm [01:47:00] gone,
Riley: Yeah. Go. I said this was gonna be light and then you're, there you go. Making it all teary again. Guys, what's your, your favorite pastimes outside of, you know, the cool job and ministry stuff you do?
Angela: Jeremy would say fishing. I would say catching. I'm not a fisherman, I'm a catchman. If we can be catching, I like to get competitive and I like to catch more fish, but I don't like to just sit out there with the rod for four hours.
Riley: Oh
Angela: we like to vacation and go to the mountains too, a lot.
Jeremy Kuntz: Yeah, my mine's fishing to hunt. Um, I love to bird hunt. Um, I love shooting guns. It's just fun to go out and shoot whether I'm shooting clay pigeons. Um, and it's not so much about the hunting and the fishing and, uh, and uh, the clay pigeons or whatever you're doing. It's, it's about hanging out with your buddies.
Um, it's, it's about that camaraderie. Um, you know, it's [01:48:00] just, it's a great time. Um, that's at least the older I get, that's what it's about. It's about my friends hanging out with friends, um, other guys meeting new people, being out in God's country, up in the mountains, wherever it may be. You could be in a cornfield, could be down on a snake river, you know, it.
That to me is just the best time.
Riley: Oh man. What is something about each of you that's a little quirky that people don't know about? I, I can see Angela's looking at Jeremy. She knows some stuff, but.
Jeremy Kuntz: Corky. Corky, um, my wife. Um, it, I guess you could say it's quirky. Um, she used to be really, really, really bad. She's not as bad anymore, but, um, she's a little OCD. Um, especially when
Riley: No.
Jeremy Kuntz: to, [01:49:00] yeah, when it comes to, I remember it was, it was kind of funny when we were first dating, um, I had a house that was over in Boise here, um, behind the old Po Joes over there.
And, uh, we, we had, I had some coffee tables and stuff like that, and Angela and I had kind of been somewhat trying to figure out, okay, we're gonna get married, we're gonna move in together. What, what are we gonna do here? And um, this was kind of before both of us were really Christians. And so, um, she was somewhat living with me, but she still had her apartment in Nampa, but she was really OCD with stuff.
And I would purposely go in and on the end table, she, we'd have a lamp and you'd have a couple little trinkets or whatever, and I would move things and she would come in the door and move it back without even saying it, saying, Hey, how come this is outta place? She, you know her, you go to her closet and her closet is organized with long sleeve short sleeves, colors, which way the face of the shirt has [01:50:00] to face when you fold pants.
They have to have the pocket out so you know what pair of jeans it is to, and she still does this today. She still says, I fold towels wrong, which I don't understand how you fold towels wrong but in washcloths, but. I think that's where her quirkiness is. Is she, she's, she's kinda a little OCD on things.
Angela: Yeah.
Riley: Fire back,
Angela: Um,
Riley: Angela.
Angela: I dunno if it's perky, but I think it would surprise a lot of people. 'cause you know, he talks a lot about his hunting and fishing and, you know, like, like loving to watch football and stuff like that. he, you know, talks about hunting and fishing and sports, but I think a lot of people would be surprised.
I mean, this guy can sew, he can embroider. He's a, he's a excellent cook. Everything is by taste. Like I go take him like I find something at a restaurant. I take him to that restaurant and say, do we make this, how do you make this at home? Um, you know, that he, um, you know, he can, you know, he sings, he plays the piano, he plays the drums, you know, he can dance, which is the reason I married him.
And that's [01:51:00] what I told him. You know, he, that was a requirement. He had to know how to dance. And I think a lot of people, um, you know, don't know, like he just has all of these different talents and all these things that he can do. He can paint, he can, he's an artist. Yeah.
Riley: We're gonna, we're gonna have a, um, An event at the coffee shop next Thursday. Then Jeremy, we're gonna gonna have a
Jeremy Kuntz: That's, that's what I was just thinking.
Riley: You're like, oh crap. These guys. so this cooking and this stuff, what, what's, what's your favorite food?
Angela: His chicken fettuccine Alfredo. I don't eat it in restaurants. Um, I love chicken fettuccine Alfredo. There's actually one, only one restaurant now that I will eat it in. Um, but his is the, and when we, the volleyball team used to come over when it was our not time to cook, Jeremy would cook that. The family would come over, Jeremy would cook because he, his chicken fettuccine Alfredo is really, really good.
Riley: Hmm.[01:52:00]
Jeremy Kuntz: My favorite,
Riley: Jeremy?
Jeremy Kuntz: my favorite, um, man, I, I love smoking meat. I love barbecue. Um, between brisket and ribs. Um, and tri-tip, I, I don't even think I could even choose, but those are, and I do love seafood too, but smoked meat is, it's all, it's good stuff.
Riley: Yeah,
Angela: You said ice cream because truly that is my favorite food.
Jeremy Kuntz: Angela's favorite food is ice cream. Yeah.
Riley: you know, I didn't like ice cream as a kid,
Angela: I,
Riley: as an adult. Oh my gosh.
Jeremy Kuntz: Yeah.
Angela: I wish I didn't like it.
Riley: Yeah. I counted 'em the same way, but, oh, it's good.
Angela: Yeah.
Riley: What is the best advice you've ever received?
Angela: Um, I, I actually remember my mom, it was actually about marriage. I remember my mom telling me that being married, um, was gonna be the hardest job I ever had, [01:53:00] but if I worked hard at, it'd be worth it. And.
Riley: Hmm.
Angela: You know, 30 years, almost 30 years later,
Jeremy Kuntz: Yeah. Almost 30. Yeah. Burt will be at 29. 29 this year. So, yeah. Uh, best advice I was ever given. Um, own up to your mistakes. Um, if you make a mistake, own up to it. Live with the consequences and move on and do everything you can not to make that mistake again. Um, that was passed down from my dad, um, and also heard, heard it from, um, one of my bosses here.
It's just, it, it's. It's funny when you, especially when you're in a higher position at at work, um, people think that you don't make mistakes. Um, and you have to [01:54:00] remind people that you know, Hey, yeah, there, there are times I do make mistakes. We, we do it even with our kids. You know, it, I think it's super important for your kids to know that parents are not perfect and maybe I yelled or said something I shouldn't have said, or whatever it may be.
I, I think it's super important that you, um, sit down with your kids and you let 'em know, Hey man, I, I made a mistake. Because you're modeling for your kids that hey, it's okay to make mistakes and that, um, that, that it is part of life and it's how you learn from those mistakes and what you do with that afterwards, um, instead of lying about it or, or, or brushing it under the rug or whatever it may be.
So,
Riley: Yeah, that's the thing. 'cause people know people that are close to, you know, when you made a mistake,
Jeremy Kuntz: yeah.
Riley: but your reaction to that I think is, that's a, that's good stuff,
Jeremy Kuntz: Yeah.
Riley: Yeah. Um, what's an item on your bucket list that you wanna do in life [01:55:00] before it's all over?
Jeremy Kuntz: We do so much stuff that we are kind of homebodies, so it, I can't even say it's really traveling stuff. Um.
I don't know. What do you think, hon? Is, is your, would yours be a travel thing or what do you think?
Angela: I didn't have a bucket list, I don't think, um, I, I, I feel like been so blessed by, um, and, stuff with our family and friends and places we've got to see and things we've gotta do. I, I don't, I don't know that I, I've never even, I, I know I've never really, truly had a bucket list.
Jeremy Kuntz: Yeah, and I, and I would say my, kind of the same thing. I really have never really made a bucket list. Um, I think we are [01:56:00] super blessed. Um, we do, we get to do a lot of things and we have fantastic family and we are kind of homebodies. So, um, yeah, we get to go out and do some things, um, every once in a while, but we enjoy coming home.
Um, we have awesome family. Uh, it,
I, we're pretty blessed people. I, I can't,
Riley: love it. It's funny because you, you, a lot of times people mention travel, right?
Jeremy Kuntz: yeah.
Riley: And I always kind of gotta agree 'cause I, there's, I've said it several times on this podcast. I'd love to go see the castles back in like
Jeremy Kuntz: Mm-hmm.
Riley: you know, the UK or Europe. That would be cool. Um, but I think, you know, when I think of that question, for me it's not, it's not really where I could go so much as it's experiences I could have or, or things I could learn about.
Right. I got to build a knife a few years ago with my father-in-law. He's a knife maker. Right. And I just thought that was so cool to see what went into [01:57:00] that. And my, my knives look terrible when they're finished. 'cause I've only done a couple of them, but, but they're mine. I did it from, from a little hunk of metal to a finished knife.
Jeremy Kuntz: Yeah.
Riley: and they're cool because of that.
Jeremy Kuntz: That's cool.
Riley: Um, favorite book of all time and everyone says the Bible, so I say except or you know, other than the Bible. What's your favorite book of all time?
Angela: Where the Redfern grows, I.
Riley: it in fourth grade. I love that book. I was just talking about it to Simon yesterday.
Jeremy Kuntz: Uh,
Angela: but I, I still remember how much I cried, but how much I loved that book.
Riley: That's a good one. Yes.
Jeremy Kuntz: mine's, mine's a shack. Uh, the shack is,
Riley: read that one.
Jeremy Kuntz: it was the only book. I'm not a book reader. I'm really not. Um, I, I can listen to podcasts, I can do everything else. I just not, I just can't [01:58:00] just sit down and read a book very well. Um, my attention span's just not great with it, but I remember the shack. I started reading it.
Uh, I couldn't put it down. I finished it at like three o'clock in the morning. I seriously could not, I just, the vivid imagery that I had in my head, the way as I was reading it, and it, and it all came together, it was just probably the most impactful book because it explained the father, son, and Holy Spirit so well that it totally made sense.
Riley: Just hit you where you're at at the time. Right.
Jeremy Kuntz: Yeah, it did. Totally. Yeah. Then we went watch the movie. So actually we watched the movie before Angela had surgery up in Utah for cancer. We went to the movie that night before she went in for surgery.
Riley: What, uh, what's next for you guys? What's, what's the next challenge you're gonna take on what's next season of life?[01:59:00]
Angela: You know, well, after Dakota gets married, it's gonna be coming. Grandparents. That's gonna be, I mean, I think because we know that, you know, in the next few years it'll probably be Dakota getting married with McKayley getting married this last year. But, um, I think our next big challenge is gonna be, I don't know that it'll be challenge, but next, you know, and I, and I look forward to that.
I mean, I just look forward to continuing to see how our family grows and seeing how, how we raise our kids, how that turns into how they raise their kids.
Jeremy Kuntz: Yeah.
Riley: Oh, cool. Yeah. Yeah, for real.
Angela: Yeah.
Jeremy Kuntz: Um. I would like to get to retirement at some point. Not, not Angela's type of retirement, but, um, actually I don't, I I actually, the, the more I think about, uh, watching Angela and what she does, um, I think I would, I would probably be better in life if I did retire like she did, uh, [02:00:00] where you have lots of things to do, um, whether it's volunteering your time, there's, I, I keep thinking of multiple things that I could volunteer my time for.
Um, whether that's a, uh, a ministry or stuff down at the Family Justice Center. I think it'd be really cool to, um, to volunteer my time in helping young kids with woodworking,
Riley: Hmm.
Jeremy Kuntz: learning how to do things, you know, with their hands. Um, I, I, I mean, I've spent my career working with my hands, so I think that would be really cool to be able to sit down with some kids and, and volunteer your time to do that with some kind of organization.
So
Riley: I'm with you, man. I'm, I'm at some point. just gonna be a another project. It's gonna For
Jeremy Kuntz: not like you have to be there every morning at, you know, 5:30 AM So yeah, that's what I look forward to.
Riley: That's awesome you guys. All right, well we're gonna wrap this thing up. I, [02:01:00] has been a really fun conversation. I, I'm sitting here looking at this list of questions I have and how many more of 'em I, I could ask you guys. 'cause there's, I feel like, you know, we've been going two hours almost on the.now, and we're, yeah, I, I could double this real easy having this conversation, so I appreciate you guys setting aside the time to do this.
It's, I know it's been, uh, a long time coming and I'm, I'm just jacked that we finally got it done.
Angela: Yeah.
Jeremy Kuntz: for sure.
Angela: having us. We appreciate it.
Jeremy Kuntz: Yeah. Thanks. Appreciate it buddy.
Riley: Go Earn Your SALT you two.